While I'm all for trying to keep that Chicago pick, I'm not sure we want to go ALL in with tanking and throwing the rookies out there to swim by themselves either. We have to keep in mind that we are also trying to develop these young guys. Don't want to end up hurting their development and end up with a bunch of Nik Stauskas on our team.
Kings v. Nuggets - 2/23/17 - POSTGAME THREAD
- Thread starter Larry89
- Start date
The biggest surprise for me last night was that Skal was able to contribute. I did not realize (most of us probably didn't) that he was ready to produce. I'm not completely sold, he still looked a little lost at times and made some rookie mistakes, but at times he looked decisive and used his length and athleticism to make some plays. I hope he becomes more confident on the offensive end and more comfortable so he can make decisions quicker, but I imagine that will come.
Overall I was really happy with the game and the effort and communication, but I'm still very skeptical. We have seen good games and moments throughout the last decade that gave us hope for good things to come that turned into nothing. I'm hoping for the best as I am still a Kings fan, but I'm not counting on it precisely because I've been a Kings fan.
Overall I was really happy with the game and the effort and communication, but I'm still very skeptical. We have seen good games and moments throughout the last decade that gave us hope for good things to come that turned into nothing. I'm hoping for the best as I am still a Kings fan, but I'm not counting on it precisely because I've been a Kings fan.
We are closing in on the Playoffs and teams wanting to get to the second round or deeper, tried to sign just those kind of players like DC, Lawson, Koufos, Temple or even Tolliver. Afflalo may be a different case, because he has declined big time over the last few years, but he somewhat got back to playing defense this year and shoots a decent percentage from 3. His contract is indeed problematic to move.
But of course it was impossible for our GM to find any suitors.
NOLA was so desperate for a SG, that they signed Hollis Thompson. The best PG of Denver is Jameer Nelson. Boston has a desperate need for rim protection and rebounding. Chicago has benched Rondo - pretty reasonable to assume, that they would have been happy to get rid of him and get a PG able to shoot 3's.
Just because we are the Kings we don't need to act, like our guys are worthless. Yes they are bench players on Playoff teams, but they are very very decent bench players and could make the difference in a Playoff series.
But of course it was impossible for our GM to find any suitors.
NOLA was so desperate for a SG, that they signed Hollis Thompson. The best PG of Denver is Jameer Nelson. Boston has a desperate need for rim protection and rebounding. Chicago has benched Rondo - pretty reasonable to assume, that they would have been happy to get rid of him and get a PG able to shoot 3's.
Just because we are the Kings we don't need to act, like our guys are worthless. Yes they are bench players on Playoff teams, but they are very very decent bench players and could make the difference in a Playoff series.
I still don't understand which hypothetical deal you are saying we missed. That Denver or Boston was ready to give a second for Collison? (if they would have - then I agree Vlade should have taken it). That we should have given WCS to Boston?? hell nah.
What is the deal that the Boston, Chicago, Denver GM wanted to make with Sac for our bench guys?
And from the vibe at the game last night, I don't think Vlade would entertain dumping Lawson, Koufos , Temple or Tolliver. I think those are "Vlade guys". But Collison yeah I would have taken a second - but I doubt anybody was offering one.
What is the deal that the Boston, Chicago, Denver GM wanted to make with Sac for our bench guys?
And from the vibe at the game last night, I don't think Vlade would entertain dumping Lawson, Koufos , Temple or Tolliver. I think those are "Vlade guys". But Collison yeah I would have taken a second - but I doubt anybody was offering one.
Like I already said - pro sports are unforgiving. You know, what happened to guys buried on the bench or at the D-League, because they "weren't ready yet". Look at Archie Goodwin or Bruno Caboclo.
It made sense to have the rookies earn their minutes as long as we were sold on winning as much games as possible. Now it doesn't make any sense. There are a lot more guys out there, whose career didn't go as planned, because they never got enough opportunities, than guys, who broke under the pressure of having too big of a role in their early career days.
It made sense to have the rookies earn their minutes as long as we were sold on winning as much games as possible. Now it doesn't make any sense. There are a lot more guys out there, whose career didn't go as planned, because they never got enough opportunities, than guys, who broke under the pressure of having too big of a role in their early career days.
Same old same old - every criticism of the GM gets reflected by saying "show me the deal". I'm not a GM. I don't get paid to make trades. I don't propose hypothetical deals, only for you to respond - that's not gonna happen.
But claiming, that there is no market for decent bench pieces at the trade deadline isn't something I agree with. Tucker was moved. Bogdanovic was moved. But we of course stand put, because we want to establish our culture and want to compete.
And you nailed it with your "Vlade guys" statement. That's excactly why Vlade is a bad GM.
But claiming, that there is no market for decent bench pieces at the trade deadline isn't something I agree with. Tucker was moved. Bogdanovic was moved. But we of course stand put, because we want to establish our culture and want to compete.
And you nailed it with your "Vlade guys" statement. That's excactly why Vlade is a bad GM.
Kings have been through middling Top10 pick after middling Top 10 pick. Why not change the approach and finally give us the best chance for a better draft position? Sure watching the team go all out and grind out a win against all odds is fun, but it's not smart. And please don't refer to the "winning culture" once again. This is what they tell us year after year after year. 
Philly tanked like mad and still the team was hustling and playing incredibly hard this year.
Philly tanked like mad and still the team was hustling and playing incredibly hard this year.
Like it or (obviously) not, we do depend on the Sixers. We can tank all we want and still end up with pick 6-10. Small chance of top 5.
Every team would like to be a couple of spots higher, there must be some reason why other teams are not deploying Hinkie strategy (winning matters, revenue, pride...).
See, no culture in the answer
What has last night to do with Vlades GM capability? You are mixing things up. I don't even know what to discuss in the first place.
If those guys are fine on the roster don't complain, when the Kings once again fall 1 or 2 spots short of your prefered player or lose their pick completely.
And to be honest - I don't want to win a discussions on KingsFan.com. I only want to get some different viewpoints from other fans.
If those guys are fine on the roster don't complain, when the Kings once again fall 1 or 2 spots short of your prefered player or lose their pick completely.
And to be honest - I don't want to win a discussions on KingsFan.com. I only want to get some different viewpoints from other fans.
Good points.
I can guarantee you that the players currently on the team could care less about getting a #7-10 lottery pick who will try to come in and take their jobs.
The bonus of winning being, that if we do get the #8 spot in the playoffs, we would keep N.O. out of the playoffs and we should still get their lottery pick #7-13 pick and we won't have to worry about the Philly pick swap.
I can guarantee you that the players currently on the team could care less about getting a #7-10 lottery pick who will try to come in and take their jobs.
The bonus of winning being, that if we do get the #8 spot in the playoffs, we would keep N.O. out of the playoffs and we should still get their lottery pick #7-13 pick and we won't have to worry about the Philly pick swap.
I bought tickets to this game the day before Cousins was traded. I was so excited to see us battle Denver and hopefully gain ground in the battle for the last playoff spot. Once Cousins was traded, I was so mad, wish I had waited another day to buy them because I was so mad at the Kings that I didn't want to go to the game. Once the initial pain and anger subsided, I returned to my Kings fandom senses and was looking forward to the game. I certainly did not expect to see them play like that. Wow! What a great game to go to. It's only one game, but I'm pretty excited to see how this team is going to mesh now.
The last two games I have been to, we haven't had Cousins in either game and we're 2-0. Let's keep this trend going.
The last two games I have been to, we haven't had Cousins in either game and we're 2-0. Let's keep this trend going.
Damn you for making me defend Vlade.
Can we agree that first rounder for any of the assets (Collison/Ben/Lawson/KK) would be miracle (Noel could not get on for example)?
In this post there is a very eloquent description what are the consequences of just getting another second rounder this year for any of those guys
http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/trade-deadline-approaching-for-kings.67030/page-21#post-1309155
Unrelated, how can anybody still look at the move made this week and say that Kings "want to compete" this season?
Can we agree that first rounder for any of the assets (Collison/Ben/Lawson/KK) would be miracle (Noel could not get on for example)?
In this post there is a very eloquent description what are the consequences of just getting another second rounder this year for any of those guys
http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/trade-deadline-approaching-for-kings.67030/page-21#post-1309155
Unrelated, how can anybody still look at the move made this week and say that Kings "want to compete" this season?
Try to tell these kids to roll over. Do not think that is possible.
Like it or (obviously) not, we do depend on the Sixers. We can tank all we want and still end up with pick 6-10. Small chance of top 5.
Every team would like to be a couple of spots higher, there must be some reason why other teams are not deploying Hinkie strategy (winning matters, revenue, pride...).
See, no culture in the answer
Like it or (obviously) not, we do depend on the Sixers. We can tank all we want and still end up with pick 6-10. Small chance of top 5.
Every team would like to be a couple of spots higher, there must be some reason why other teams are not deploying Hinkie strategy (winning matters, revenue, pride...).
See, no culture in the answer
And one good point on the downside of the Hinkie strategy. Nonetheless the Sixers arena looked pretty crowded this season, when the Embiid hype got going. So it seems to be possible to put the buts back in the seats once you achieve the goal of the tanking process, which is to draft a potential star player.
I'm deeply sorry. Let go of your devils advocate stance and come to the dark side....
Yeah we can agree on that. That's why I mentioned young assets.
I'm too lazy too look up another word for "trying to win every game and keeping a semi competent roster of vets, that takes playing time away from the rookies"....
Yeah we can agree on that. That's why I mentioned young assets.
I'm too lazy too look up another word for "trying to win every game and keeping a semi competent roster of vets, that takes playing time away from the rookies"....
Not too long ago it took us a couple of seasons to get a win without Demarcus. This team now has two, in two situations in which momentum seemed to be stacked quite high for the other side. I'm going to be the optimist and say that Vlade could predict New Orleans struggles to finish the year thus grabbing their pick because we're going to pull a Memphis-esque Jaerger-run to the playoffs and lose ours to Chicago (thus removing any bad look on the philly move) Then next year we resign the squad, bring back or trade Rudy for anything and play some more pass, move and grind basketball. Really fun to watch. Best play of the night last night came in the last 30 seconds when Cauley-Stein hit the floor for a loose ball and mclemore(I believe) went into the stands. Vlade for GMOY, Jaerger for COY, Buddy Hield ROY.
This squad is deep as Sh** once temple and Malachi come back, not to mention the few moments where I felt an afflalo bucket would calm things down last night. For all you that couldn't find your balls after the cousins trade I hope you go join him his ass bit**ing at the refs and watch as he gets another coach fired in New Orleans. #BoogieFever
That is all
This squad is deep as Sh** once temple and Malachi come back, not to mention the few moments where I felt an afflalo bucket would calm things down last night. For all you that couldn't find your balls after the cousins trade I hope you go join him his ass bit**ing at the refs and watch as he gets another coach fired in New Orleans. #BoogieFever
That is all
G
If our kids carry us to the playoffs after trading cousins... think about what that would do for their mental growth and confidence...
I really don't wanna lose the pick but if this team makes the playoffs with heart and hustle. We will have the cap space to sign a pretty good player or two.
Regardless how the rest of the league views Our FO dishonesty... truth is everyone knows the say one thing do another is common place. Happens all the time.
Your not getting traded until u are.
These kids rock!!!!
I really don't wanna lose the pick but if this team makes the playoffs with heart and hustle. We will have the cap space to sign a pretty good player or two.
Regardless how the rest of the league views Our FO dishonesty... truth is everyone knows the say one thing do another is common place. Happens all the time.
Your not getting traded until u are.
These kids rock!!!!
The only way we make the playoffs is if Willie, Skal, Hield, Malachi, Ben step up and produce because the vets alone being the catalysts wont get it done. So imo it will take care of itself, we could get in the playoffs from our young guys stepping up, or that wont happen and we'll keep our pick. We arent gonna make the playoffs because Tolliver and Koufos are balling, we'll make the playoffs if WCS is getting double doubles and playing fantastic defense and Ben and Buddy are lighting it up and Skal is contributing off the bench.
I agree. The only real problem is if we find ourselves at a crossroads with 10 to go, and we're equidistant from the 10 spot and the 8 spot... and we go to a vet heavy rotation, get a 10 day guy, pull all the stops to try and make 8. THEN I will say the FO is stupid.
But if the youth plays their way to the 8 spot fair and square I think it's awesome
But if the youth plays their way to the 8 spot fair and square I think it's awesome
Our guard depth is severely underrated right now, We don't have a forward but that is ok. We have three seven footers and a mobile tweener in Tolliver. No more Matt barnes at SF or PF. Losing Casspi hurts, but he hasn't played all season. The addition of Tyreke whom many thought was just a throw in is understated, He can get to the rim at will with the Paint now open, run pick and roll/post up/ and most of all cut and play Defense. That is if he can stay healthy.
Now with Barnes gone there will be minutes at PF for Skal to show his stuff, and I liked what I saw. He really still needs to add more muscle and be stronger but he is only 20 years old.
Now with Barnes gone there will be minutes at PF for Skal to show his stuff, and I liked what I saw. He really still needs to add more muscle and be stronger but he is only 20 years old.
I'm still mad at Vivek and Vlade for the dishonest way they approached the whole situation. Wanting to keep a lid on potential deals is fine. Not informing DeMarcus that he's going to be traded is not fine with me. It was the same thing with CWebb and Peja and probably everyone else for all I know, we just don't get stories about all of them. We put their faces on the side of the arena, sell jerseys with their names on the back, use them in commercials, tell them they are everything to the franchise and then when it's time to move on they can't even get a courtesy call? Not cool. I don't think we got enough for DeMarcus and I can't help but recount in my mind all the many many chances we had to build a winning team with him on it that were squandered. He had his faults but it's not the big guy's fault that this team couldn't put it together while he was here. I'll always have love for Boogie. It is what it is.
That being said...
I'm not not going to let any of that prevent me from enjoying the team we have on the court now. That game last night was a breath of fresh air. I've never been so happy about being wrong! The pure joy these guys played with is exactly what we needed right now. I wasn't a big Buddy Hield fan before but I am now. Willie showed me that he can be a force on offense just by playing off our guards and getting into open space. Forget the pick and roll, Tyreke running to the hoop and throwing it off the rim for Willie to clean up can be a whole subset of offense in itself. Skal looks great! We don't need to push him along or anything, but I want to see him on the court for 15-20 minutes every game. As much as I think we need two picks in this draft to rebuild our talent-base, if they're going to play like this every night I'm not going to worry about the draft. We were running circles around Denver last night and it seems like it's usually the other way around. There is a certain freedom in not knowing what to expect. Whatever happens happens. These players don't make the decisions, and they deserve our support.
That being said...
I'm not not going to let any of that prevent me from enjoying the team we have on the court now. That game last night was a breath of fresh air. I've never been so happy about being wrong! The pure joy these guys played with is exactly what we needed right now. I wasn't a big Buddy Hield fan before but I am now. Willie showed me that he can be a force on offense just by playing off our guards and getting into open space. Forget the pick and roll, Tyreke running to the hoop and throwing it off the rim for Willie to clean up can be a whole subset of offense in itself. Skal looks great! We don't need to push him along or anything, but I want to see him on the court for 15-20 minutes every game. As much as I think we need two picks in this draft to rebuild our talent-base, if they're going to play like this every night I'm not going to worry about the draft. We were running circles around Denver last night and it seems like it's usually the other way around. There is a certain freedom in not knowing what to expect. Whatever happens happens. These players don't make the decisions, and they deserve our support.