[Game] Kings V Denver - 1/3/19 - 7 PM PST

WCS was terrible. Team rebounding was pathetic. BUT...

Dave Jeorger not calling a timeout sooner early in the 3rd while Denver dropped 11 unanswered on us wiping out a 15 point lead cost us the game. Good coaches see that **** coming a mile a way and call it after 5 or 6 point swing... not when the momentum has completely shifted and we're now clinging on a 3 to 4 point lead. Jamal Murray needs to send Jeorger a fruit basket after last night.
It’s a crutch to always blame the coach. Certainly they deserve their share of credit or complaint, but in this case, it clearly was our players’ inability to rebound that cost us the game. It was blatant.
 
And a smaller Shumpert can? I watched Bogdan handle a 4 the other night. He can handle 3's better than anyone else on the team, no doubt, and I think with his length and strength gaurding most of them won't be an issue. And if the question is handling someone like Durant then I guess 100% of the league can't either. In particular with Durant, Bogdan did guard him this year and I thought he did quite well.

Shump is far more athletic than Bogdan. Bogdan is overrated. Plain and Simple. He's a good role player. Nothing else.
 
And a smaller Shumpert can? I watched Bogdan handle a 4 the other night. He can handle 3's better than anyone else on the team, no doubt, and I think with his length and strength gaurding most of them won't be an issue. And if the question is handling someone like Durant then I guess 100% of the league can't either. In particular with Durant, Bogdan did guard him this year and I thought he did quite well.

Keep on dreaming. Because, Joerger will never role out those 3 at the same time in a starting lineup. Unless, someone is injured. In addition, you speak as if the Kings play at least average Def. They don't. They give up more points than they score. So, to say Bogdan is a good defender is laughable.
 
Shump is far more athletic than Bogdan. Bogdan is overrated. Plain and Simple. He's a good role player. Nothing else.
His turnovers have been uncharacteristically up lately (12 over a 3 game stretch until last night) and he has missed shots he normally makes. He will be a 40% three point shooter before long and he will make more game winning shots like he did. Bogs can defend three positions and create many easy looks for teammates. How many players can guard three positions? He's our best player, not most talented, since Giles, MB3 and Fox have more raw talent, but he is our best overall player who has yet to play his best basketball. He has all-star talent. He's probably not ever an all-star because he's not athletic enough but he's more than a role player. If you don't believe me wait until he's eligible for an extension. I bet he gets 20M per year for 3-4 years.
 
I am ready for a lineup of D-Fox, Bogs, Buddy, Giles and MB3. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe this lineup has played zero minutes so far.
I dont mind shump being in there but it's time Giles/Bagley start taking over that frontcourt . We need a solid SF pretty badly too
 
I dont mind shump being in there but it's time Giles/Bagley start taking over that frontcourt . We need a solid SF pretty badly too
We need Otto Porter. I said he would be the dream acquisition before the rumors started flying. I also like the idea of breaking up the rookies for the experience factor for 10 games or so. How this would work would be MB3 and Bjelica starting then you would have Giles and Willie off the bench. With the second unit the offense runs through Giles with Willie pretty much getting out of the way or catching lobs. Ideally you want to minimize his role in the offense (and minutes) and this is probably best achieved as a backup and sharing the court with Giles who you run more offense through. Ultimately Giles and MB3 will be the starters but it is probably premature due to inexperience. I don't think the coach will do this. He is too dedicated to Willie, inexplicably so. More likely MB3 would replace Bjelica as a starter. I am not a proponent of this. MB3 should replace the "low post" player not the stretch player. There will be fans clamoring for MB3 and Giles to start but I think this is a futile wish given this coach.
 
One thing I'd like to point out was Justin Jackson's two incredible blocks in the 4th last night... If he puts in the work, he can be an incredible defender. Out of all the fringe guys on this team, I'm rooting most for him. Seems like such a hard working kid.
JJ has quietly been establishing himself as a rotation player on a playoff team... ours hopefully soon. It's actually pretty great progress for a second year player being asked to focus on defense.
 
I dont mind shump being in there but it's time Giles/Bagley start taking over that frontcourt . We need a solid SF pretty badly too
Absolutely correct and I think people can see it now. Without a starting spot WCS won't get his max deal. If the Kings can sense the trajectory of Giles, it allows them to go hard in negotiations. Willie could be an 18M/year guy on a mediocre team, or he could be a 13m/yr bench big but even then he better get his defense and rebounding solid. It's absolutely atrocious and we need to start recognizing that.
 
One thing I'd like to point out was Justin Jackson's two incredible blocks in the 4th last night... If he puts in the work, he can be an incredible defender. Out of all the fringe guys on this team, I'm rooting most for him. Seems like such a hard working kid.
I've noticed a definite improvement lately.

He has also been more aggressive on offense.

The window isn't closed on him being a rotation 3 and D guy. In fact, I'd say it's starting to look more likely he'll achieve that role now than earlier on in the season.

Keep grinding, JJ!
 
One thing I'd like to point out was Justin Jackson's two incredible blocks in the 4th last night... If he puts in the work, he can be an incredible defender. Out of all the fringe guys on this team, I'm rooting most for him. Seems like such a hard working kid.
Ha-ha, don't get me started, those blocks weren't "incredible" and you cannot be an incredible defender if you lack physicality which Jackson clearly does. He got torched by Kuzma in the first game and many other times, I guess you missed those games when projecting his "incredible" potential. You may or may not know but Milsap is not the player he once was. He's a ground bound player who picks his spots and where injuries and age have taken their toll. Blocking his shot back in the day would be an accomplishment nowadays Frank Mason could do it. I also question your assessment of bieng "a hard working kid". When have you seen him dive on the floor for a loose ball? I haven't. It has been 1.5 years and the next time will be the first time. He also has put on NO muscle since entering the league. None. That's not hard working that is guy more inclined to go Yoga class than toss around the iron.
 
I've noticed a definite improvement lately.

The window isn't closed on him being a rotation 3 and D guy. In fact, I'd say it's starting to look more likely he'll achieve that role now than earlier on in the season.

Keep grinding, JJ!
You gotta be kidding me, he's 6-23 FGs in his last 4 games. That's not "definite improvement" that's 26% FGs. Jackson is not an NBA player no matter how fans want to wish it so. All of his missed shots too are wide open. Even if he made 40% we would have like gotten 1-2 wins out of our last three instead of a three game slide. His defense is trash too, a couple of "incredible" blocks not withstanding.
 
You gotta be kidding me, he's 6-23 FGs in his last 4 games. That's not "definite improvement" that's 26% FGs. Jackson is not an NBA player no matter how fans want to wish it so. All of his missed shots too are wide open. Even if he made 40% we would have like gotten 1-2 wins out of our last three instead of a three game slide. His defense is trash too, a couple of "incredible" blocks not withstanding.
When the bar has been set as low as it has for Jackson him not getting scored on any possession he's in the game is a big deal. Pretty soon we will be praising him for just hitting the rim at this rate.
 
JJ has quietly been establishing himself as a rotation player on a playoff team... ours hopefully soon. It's actually pretty great progress for a second year player being asked to focus on defense.
Sorry but another deluded fan. Jackson will never be a rotational player on a playoff team. His game is a joke. He doesn't have the talent or the dawg in him. He is lacking mentally and physically. He only plays because he was the 15th pick in the draft. Otherwise, he would be in Stockton or China.
 
When the bar has been set as low as it has for Jackson him not getting scored on any possession he's in the game is a big deal.
From your perspective that may be true. But from a meta perspective, it is irrelevant. He didn't block Giannis. He blocked a guy who can't jump,
 
When the bar has been set as low as it has for Jackson him not getting scored on any possession he's in the game is a big deal. Pretty soon we will be praising him for just hitting the rim at this rate.
No we’re praising him for becoming a good player after a rough start to the season where many Kings fans, myself included, were frustrated with his play. JJ looks to be a valuable part of the team moving forward.
 
No we’re praising him for becoming a good player after a rough start to the season where many Kings fans, myself included, were frustrated with his play. JJ looks to be a valuable part of the team moving forward.
He has not in any way shape or form become a good player, he's the worst player on the team by far who gets playing time and has killed us on the floor everytime he's on so far. The only value he currently holds is that he might turn out ok and he's on a good contract, Troy Williams despite having no bball IQ has helped us win more games than Jackson.
 
So it was interesting watching the game after reading all the comments. Watch specifically for rebounding and most the their offensive boards came with Jackson at the 4 or from the 3 spot.

WCS isn’t a great rebounder as his hands are too small. Pairing WCS with the three guard line-up is a rebounding disaster. Especially when will switches on the pick and role.

Harry is by far our best rebounder with both his boxing out fundamentals and his huge hands. Only more reason he should be getting more minutes. Even when he lost a rebound it was because of a breakdown at the small forward position.

Kings really need a small forward with size.
 
He has not in any way shape or form become a good player, he's the worst player on the team by far who gets playing time and has killed us on the floor everytime he's on so far. The only value he currently holds is that he might turn out ok and he's on a good contract, Troy Williams despite having no bball IQ has helped us win more games than Jackson.
Jackson is easily better than Williams and Frank Mason. He was quite a bit better than Willie and Shumpert last night as well. He’s developing. That’s the gist of the conversation. He’s not a complete product by any stretch of the imagination, but he’s improving.
 
You gotta be kidding me, he's 6-23 FGs in his last 4 games. That's not "definite improvement" that's 26% FGs. Jackson is not an NBA player no matter how fans want to wish it so. All of his missed shots too are wide open. Even if he made 40% we would have like gotten 1-2 wins out of our last three instead of a three game slide. His defense is trash too, a couple of "incredible" blocks not withstanding.
Intangibles my dude!

But also, as Nokidding mentioned, the bar was set suuuuuuuper low.

I'm not trying to be a JJ apologist or anything, I'm just approaching the season with more patience than a lot of y'all. This is barely year two of a rebuild, I'm happy seeing improvement, even if it's just an improvement from total garbage to minor liability.

Anyways! JJ is clearly your muse at the moment, don't let me get in the way of your angry rants! I may not agree with all of them, but they are entertaining! ;)
 
Ha-ha, don't get me started, those blocks weren't "incredible" and you cannot be an incredible defender if you lack physicality which Jackson clearly does. He got torched by Kuzma in the first game and many other times, I guess you missed those games when projecting his "incredible" potential. You may or may not know but Milsap is not the player he once was. He's a ground bound player who picks his spots and where injuries and age have taken their toll. Blocking his shot back in the day would be an accomplishment nowadays Frank Mason could do it. I also question your assessment of bieng "a hard working kid". When have you seen him dive on the floor for a loose ball? I haven't. It has been 1.5 years and the next time will be the first time. He also has put on NO muscle since entering the league. None. That's not hard working that is guy more inclined to go Yoga class than toss around the iron.

You can question my assessment all you want. Truth is I'm at every home game, two rows from the hardwood. I see this kid with my own eyes putting in the work before games. He's all ears when Shumpert is coaching him up. Sure, his offense is a mess, by far the most unclutch guy on the team. JJ can't hit an open shot to save is life.. I get that. All I'm saying is he's shown glimpses of becoming a solid on ball defender and he seems to me to have the right attitude to get there.
 
I've noticed a definite improvement lately.

He has also been more aggressive on offense.

The window isn't closed on him being a rotation 3 and D guy. In fact, I'd say it's starting to look more likely he'll achieve that role now than earlier on in the season.

Keep grinding, JJ!
He needs to stop hanging his head when he misses a shot. He also needs to get stronger if he can. He gets pushed under the board for rebounds all the time because his legs aren’t strong enough.
 
The other thing that drives me crazy is that we can't even get calls in our own gym. As long as I've been watching the NBA, it's widely been known that the home team generally gets the better end of favorable calls. But it rarely seems that way for our KINGS. Even tonight, the Nuggets shot twice as many FT's. And I though the KINGS were just as aggressive as Denver was .. perhaps even more. But no respect at home. Again.

And as physical as Denver was playing on the defensive end, how do they not end up with more fouls? Just boggles the mind.
For the first 3 and a half quarters, I could have sworn the refs were wearing Nuggets jerseys. Really hard to win a game when you're playing 5 on 8.

Remember Doug and Grant complimenting Denver on how physical they are? Yeah our team can be physical too but the refs simply did not allow it. Ticky tack fouls for the first 40 or so minutes of the game got Denver to the line over and over. That flagrant on Giles? He straight up went for the ball, just reacted late and got Plumlee's body with his body. That was not a flagrant. Also how many times did Fox and co. get completely smashed at the rim by Denver without a whistle in sight? It was ridiculous.
 
For the first 3 and a half quarters, I could have sworn the refs were wearing Nuggets jerseys. Really hard to win a game when you're playing 5 on 8.

Remember Doug and Grant complimenting Denver on how physical they are? Yeah our team can be physical too but the refs simply did not allow it. Ticky tack fouls for the first 40 or so minutes of the game got Denver to the line over and over. That flagrant on Giles? He straight up went for the ball, just reacted late and got Plumlee's body with his body. That was not a flagrant. Also how many times did Fox and co. get completely smashed at the rim by Denver without a whistle in sight? It was ridiculous.
After seeing Draymond's behavior and not getting a technical once in the 4th and than the KD out of bounds call called in nothing anymore can surprise me in terms of the refs. Most the time I say it will even out and I normally never blame refs but when it's that blatant kind of really makes you wonder, end of the day it's really more entertainment than actual legit sport.
 
I dont mind shump being in there but it's time Giles/Bagley start taking over that frontcourt . We need a solid SF pretty badly too
Remember Shump is a FA too. I don't think he'll get the type of money he's making now but at some point you have to see what you are without the players that might not be in the long term picture. That said hopefully the Kings are able to sign him back at an affordable rate.
 
Ok. When Bogdan takes over a game against Elite competition, let me know.

It's not an either/or. He's still the best talent at that spot they have. At some point you have to look at your options and decide. He could end up failing miserably at SF for extended minutes, my point the whole time has been they need to see how he works because Bogdan on a huge contract as a backup SG probably isn't realistic long term.