Kings / Suns Game Thread

I did not get to watch the game but followed the play by play on the internet.

Rookie seasons are rookie seasons and I do not think we started any rookies last night.
Could Bagley be a bust well we will find out but I agree that we need a coach who can put players in the best position to succeed.

I would be happy with Bagley having a 10ppg, 6rpg, 2 apg average for his rookie year and hopefully in the starting lineup by the all star break. Anything better than that I would think it would be a gift.
 

I hate to post negative crap but people here seem to be having difficulty being objective about our bigs.

Look at the play 5 minutes in, i referenced this in real-time. this is why Harry Giles has no case to start over Willie (I feel dumb even having to explain this tbh, it's not even close...)
Both Marvin and Giles were getting pushed around in that clip. They don't yet have that grown man strength.
 
Guys Marvin needs some time to work on his J and FT%. and like all bigs (sans Ayton) strengthen up for the rigors of battling NBA bigs (grown men). Harry needs to strengthen up similarly.
I agree, but this franchise and current ownership group has no history of exhibiting patience. If it's January, Marvin is still struggling regularly and guys like Doncic and Jaren Jackson are tearing it up, someone will get fired.
 
I did not see the game. Can someone explain to me how Yogi put up 26 points?
Does this surprise anyone? Or not?
Dude is tough, similar mentality to IT without the Iverson complex and much better defender. A lot of his shots were open threes from good ball movement or playmaking from Fox and Buddy. Him with Bogi, Bjeliciaand Buddy will be a nice floor spacing group.
 
I looked at the box score and Yogi was raining down 3s. The numbers were okay.
I noticed that everyone on the team outrebounded Skal. He got 1 board as a starter. One. Not acceptable.
The guards all got more rebounds. Everyone except for Gabriel who got one board in one minute.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
I did not see the game. Can someone explain to me how Yogi put up 26 points?
Does this surprise anyone? Or not?
Doesn’t surprise. He’s done the same thing at Dallas. When he’s on, he’s on and needs to play. Kind of like Hield. When they are in the zone, just ride it.
 
For those of you who was hoping that Joeger was going to go all young and just throw the rookies bigs out there to sink or swim, I don't think that will happen.

He's going to do what he did with Fox last year. He is going to start the guys with experience and then ease Bagley and Giles in about 20-30 games into the season. We can probably expect a heavy dose of Beli at the stretch 4 and Skal at PF to start the season. Bagley and Giles will probably get 15-20 minutes per game at the start of the season.

Once the you young bigs earns Joeger's trust, they will build minutes, but it will take some time. Most likely not until January, before we start seeing Bagley and Giles get bigger minutes.

We will probably start the season with a line up of:

PF: Skal / Giles
SF: Beli/ Bogdan (injured) /JJ
C: WCS / Bagley
SG Buddy / BMac / Shump
PG: Fox / Yogi
 

I hate to post negative crap but people here seem to be having difficulty being objective about our bigs.

Look at the play 5 minutes in, i referenced this in real-time. this is why Harry Giles has no case to start over Willie (I feel dumb even having to explain this tbh, it's not even close...)
You think WCS is stronger in the paint and didn’t get toyed with last night. WCS is a tweener who doesn’t rim protect/rebound and who IMO doesn’t have a future with the team. Giles is 20, Holmes is a man. I’d prefer Giles out there starting but something tells me they will go easy on it for health precaution
 
This core of franchise guys is so young. And Shira athleticism and underlining talent I expect young guys to struggle through the first half of the season. But still be good enough to make the rookie All-Star teams . I’m more looking forward to the second half where the game will begin to slow down and they will have had enough minutes to actually get a better feel of the game. Bagley in particular is he used to dominating at every level. He’s not as big or strong as Ayton. He will need to adjust the speed of the game more than that guy.
Only was able to see the 4th quarter, but agree that Bagley hasn't adjusted to the speed of the NBA at this point. Being sped up led him to miss a few shots that once he gets acclimated will likely go down.
 
I don't think so. If no one from our young group steps up and becomes at least a 18ppg scorer, he's done. Or the other alternative, Bagley looks very raw while other rookies look like stars. Vlade does not get an extra 2 years. He's already over stayed his visit since the Stauskas trade.


This FO has a ton of faith in Fox. I'm not as sold as everyone though.
I don't think you can pass up on Doncic because of Bogdanovic. Fox? ok..I can see the argument because he's a young athletic PG with flashes. But Bogdanovic? 26yearold jack of all trades SG? I don't think so. Passing up on Doncic is already biting us in the ass. Putting Bagley's lackluster SL+1st preseason game, we desperately needed a SF more than anything. Tonight we had McLemore playing SF...

I'm more concerned about individual player improvements rather than the entire team performance. If the FO has already decided that Fox is their guy, they need to build an entire team around him and start flushing unnecessary things out.
Imagine actually thinking this...
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
Danny Angie and Jerry West tried trading up for Doncic, case closed!
How many times are you going to post basically the same thing? Just a variation of it. Your point has been made. What are you trying to accomplish with these posts now? I had Doncic as my pick followed by Bagley. I didn’t want Boogie traded, at all. Very unhappy about it. But at some point, I had to just move on. All of this might be the best thing the Kings have done but we won’t know this for some time.
 
How many times are you going to post basically the same thing? Just a variation of it. Your point has been made. What are you trying to accomplish with these posts now? I had Doncic as my pick followed by Bagley. I didn’t want Boogie traded, at all. Very unhappy about it. But at some point, I had to just move on. All of this might be the best thing the Kings have done but we won’t know this for some time.
Within the context of whoever (singular or plural) picked him held accountable, I can accept it and move on if it continues to play out like this, personally speaking. I think that’s why I bring up the issue most of the time in relation to our FO.
 
Danny Angie and Jerry West tried trading up for Doncic, case closed!
You think the who's better, Doncic vs Bagley, debate has already been settled decisively? Seriously?

I realize this is what passes for debate on much of the Internet. On draft day, if the choice was up to me, I would have gone for Doncic too. But you know what? Vlade had tons of first-hand information and I had none whatsoever. It just might be that he knew more than I do. I, personally, don't think that proves he's incompetent and should be fired, just because he didn't agree with me. Posting the same thing over and over, particularly when that train has left the station, doesn't demonstrate basketball knowledge, it's just lame.
 
You think the who's better, Doncic vs Bagley, debate has already been settled decisively? Seriously?

I realize this is what passes for debate on much of the Internet. On draft day, if the choice was up to me, I would have gone for Doncic too. But you know what? Vlade had tons of first-hand information and I had none whatsoever. It just might be that he knew more than I do. I, personally, don't think that proves he's incompetent and should be fired, just because he didn't agree with me. Posting the same thing over and over, particularly when that train has left the station, doesn't demonstrate basketball knowledge, it's just lame.
This isnt a safespace for Kings homers. At least I hope its not. In order for a forum to be functional, informative and interesting, criticism should be welcomed. Doncic was the obvious pick at #2 and a fan favourite but Vlade went completely the other way. If we want to have legit conversations here during the boring part of Nba (after the draft to the beginning of the season) this Bagley vs Doncic discussion will and should be a major one. Since so far Bagley has been very underwhelming, its hard to blame anyone in here for bringing that up since this franchise has been drafting mostly horribly for many years in a row. Not a lot of benefit of the doubt as there shouldnt be.
 
I think every rational fan will give Bagley time but at some point he has to show us SOMETHING to let us imagine what he could be two to three years down. That's why there wasn't much backlash for De'Aaron Fox after his first few games and ultimately his rookie year. It wasn't great and full of ups and downs but he showed flashes of what could be with hard work and shoring up some weaknesses. To this point Bagley hasnt shown us a glimpse of anything.
 
Jeez it can be so frustrating reading this board at time.


People need to realize that we are in a full blown rebuild. The type that hasn't been attempted by many teams. This is a HIGHLY inexperienced and RAW team. By the very definition it WILL take TIME to get any decent production or consistency out of these guys. If you care to listen to coach Joerger, Vlade etc... they all talk in what we are aiming for in 2-3 YEARS time. Not here and not now.

People don't like the offense, don't like the rotations, don't like the minutes split and whatever else. You need to realize that all of that has to do with player development. If we are playing through bigs at the high post its a two pronged move, 1 because it provides a bit more spacing for Fox to get to the basket and 2 it is actually helping develop bigs in terms of reading the play, passing etc. It might not look pretty now, hell it might look like that it is not working but it is NOT about what it look like now but what it looks like in 2-3 years time.

Similarly, with the Bagley pick, agree with it or not (and there are plenty player homers around this place), it was made with the LONG TERM view in mind. Time will tell whether the pick works out or not in the long term but one thing this team absolutely needed to do with their draft pick is swing for the fences, go for the home run. They did that with the Bagley pick. Similarly to what they did with Fox the year before. If you wanted production straight out of the gates then you draft Dennis Smith Jr. or Donovan Mitchell. We went on potential and who we think could be the best player to come out of the draft.

I haven't got a problem with any of this. It might not work out but the thinking and logic behind the moves is there. I don't really care if Bagley is better than Doncic in his rookie season. I care if Bagley is a better player than Doncic in 4-5 years time and at the end of their respective careers. There is a huge difference there. As Kings fans we of all people should know what it feels like to see Tyreke Evans winning ROY over Steph Curry with his historic 20/5/5 season, only to see him regress every season since then while Curry blows up into a future Hall of Famer, MVP, perennial All-Star type of player.

Now I am not saying that Bagley will be better than Doncic. I haven't got a crystal ball, if I did I would be buying a lottery tickets now. What I am saying is that people should quit jumping at shadows and let this thing ride out. It will take time and it won't happen over night but to me its refreshing to see the franchise FINALLY take a long term view and commit to it rather than trying to make a quick fix move that saw us waste an opportunity with Cousins by continually surrounding him with quick fix pieces and shipping out any pieces of value in the process.

All I care about is that these kids have a great work ethic, continually work on their game, have great chemistry, fight to the end in every game...even if you are getting blown out by 30. Eventually, work will pay of, development will be evident, the kids will get more comfortable and better at basketball and by addition of these things become better basketball team. I think there is a fair bit of talent on this team that needs development and experience. There will be a lot of experimenting over the next couple of seasons but eventually things will click.
 
This isnt a safespace for Kings homers. At least I hope its not. In order for a forum to be functional, informative and interesting, criticism should be welcomed. Doncic was the obvious pick at #2 and a fan favourite but Vlade went completely the other way. If we want to have legit conversations here during the boring part of Nba (after the draft to the beginning of the season) this Bagley vs Doncic discussion will and should be a major one. Since so far Bagley has been very underwhelming, its hard to blame anyone in here for bringing that up since this franchise has been drafting mostly horribly for many years in a row. Not a lot of benefit of the doubt as there shouldnt be.
Utter nonsense. "Obvious pick at #2" according to who? A bunch of guys on the Internet? None of whom have seen a single practice? As I said, if it was up to me, I would have gone for Doncic based on what I knew. But there are a lot of people who were actually much more well informed than me, and I'm willing to let them do their jobs and then see how it works out. And I don't throw Internet tantrums about how they chose the wrong player because either (A) they disagreed with me so they must be incompetent and should be fired, or (B) there's a sinister plot.

Anyone who, based on the small amount we've actually seen, thinks they know anything definitive about Bagley vs. Doncic, or the future of the Kings in general, is utterly clueless. There are plenty of places on the Internet where stuff like this is typical, and it's taken seriously. This, fortunately, isn't one of them.
 
Jeez it can be so frustrating reading this board at time.


People need to realize that we are in a full blown rebuild. The type that hasn't been attempted by many teams. This is a HIGHLY inexperienced and RAW team. By the very definition it WILL take TIME to get any decent production or consistency out of these guys. If you care to listen to coach Joerger, Vlade etc... they all talk in what we are aiming for in 2-3 YEARS time. Not here and not now.

People don't like the offense, don't like the rotations, don't like the minutes split and whatever else. You need to realize that all of that has to do with player development. If we are playing through bigs at the high post its a two pronged move, 1 because it provides a bit more spacing for Fox to get to the basket and 2 it is actually helping develop bigs in terms of reading the play, passing etc. It might not look pretty now, hell it might look like that it is not working but it is NOT about what it look like now but what it looks like in 2-3 years time.

Similarly, with the Bagley pick, agree with it or not (and there are plenty player homers around this place), it was made with the LONG TERM view in mind. Time will tell whether the pick works out or not in the long term but one thing this team absolutely needed to do with their draft pick is swing for the fences, go for the home run. They did that with the Bagley pick. Similarly to what they did with Fox the year before. If you wanted production straight out of the gates then you draft Dennis Smith Jr. or Donovan Mitchell. We went on potential and who we think could be the best player to come out of the draft.

I haven't got a problem with any of this. It might not work out but the thinking and logic behind the moves is there. I don't really care if Bagley is better than Doncic in his rookie season. I care if Bagley is a better player than Doncic in 4-5 years time and at the end of their respective careers. There is a huge difference there. As Kings fans we of all people should know what it feels like to see Tyreke Evans winning ROY over Steph Curry with his historic 20/5/5 season, only to see him regress every season since then while Curry blows up into a future Hall of Famer, MVP, perennial All-Star type of player.

Now I am not saying that Bagley will be better than Doncic. I haven't got a crystal ball, if I did I would be buying a lottery tickets now. What I am saying is that people should quit jumping at shadows and let this thing ride out. It will take time and it won't happen over night but to me its refreshing to see the franchise FINALLY take a long term view and commit to it rather than trying to make a quick fix move that saw us waste an opportunity with Cousins by continually surrounding him with quick fix pieces and shipping out any pieces of value in the process.

All I care about is that these kids have a great work ethic, continually work on their game, have great chemistry, fight to the end in every game...even if you are getting blown out by 30. Eventually, work will pay of, development will be evident, the kids will get more comfortable and better at basketball and by addition of these things become better basketball team. I think there is a fair bit of talent on this team that needs development and experience. There will be a lot of experimenting over the next couple of seasons but eventually things will click.
Tyreke sure looked good his rookie year, but then again Steph averaged 17.5 ppg himself as a rookie and hit .437 of his 3's.

Be nice to see something of merit offensively from Bagley.

Don't think it's too much to ask to see an iota of ability worth investing the second pick in the draft in.
 
Utter nonsense. "Obvious pick at #2" according to who? A bunch of guys on the Internet? None of whom have seen a single practice? As I said, if it was up to me, I would have gone for Doncic based on what I knew. But there are a lot of people who were actually much more well informed than me, and I'm willing to let them do their jobs and then see how it works out. And I don't throw Internet tantrums about how they chose the wrong player because either (A) they disagreed with me so they must be incompetent and should be fired, or (B) there's a sinister plot.

Anyone who, based on the small amount we've actually seen, thinks they know anything definitive about Bagley vs. Doncic, or the future of the Kings in general, is utterly clueless. There are plenty of places on the Internet where stuff like this is typical, and it's taken seriously. This, fortunately, isn't one of them.
What have you seen from Bagley worth investing the second pick from the draft in?
 
Jeez it can be so frustrating reading this board at time.


People need to realize that we are in a full blown rebuild. The type that hasn't been attempted by many teams. This is a HIGHLY inexperienced and RAW team. By the very definition it WILL take TIME to get any decent production or consistency out of these guys. If you care to listen to coach Joerger, Vlade etc... they all talk in what we are aiming for in 2-3 YEARS time. Not here and not now.

People don't like the offense, don't like the rotations, don't like the minutes split and whatever else. You need to realize that all of that has to do with player development. If we are playing through bigs at the high post its a two pronged move, 1 because it provides a bit more spacing for Fox to get to the basket and 2 it is actually helping develop bigs in terms of reading the play, passing etc. It might not look pretty now, hell it might look like that it is not working but it is NOT about what it look like now but what it looks like in 2-3 years time.

Similarly, with the Bagley pick, agree with it or not (and there are plenty player homers around this place), it was made with the LONG TERM view in mind. Time will tell whether the pick works out or not in the long term but one thing this team absolutely needed to do with their draft pick is swing for the fences, go for the home run. They did that with the Bagley pick. Similarly to what they did with Fox the year before. If you wanted production straight out of the gates then you draft Dennis Smith Jr. or Donovan Mitchell. We went on potential and who we think could be the best player to come out of the draft.

I haven't got a problem with any of this. It might not work out but the thinking and logic behind the moves is there. I don't really care if Bagley is better than Doncic in his rookie season. I care if Bagley is a better player than Doncic in 4-5 years time and at the end of their respective careers. There is a huge difference there. As Kings fans we of all people should know what it feels like to see Tyreke Evans winning ROY over Steph Curry with his historic 20/5/5 season, only to see him regress every season since then while Curry blows up into a future Hall of Famer, MVP, perennial All-Star type of player.

Now I am not saying that Bagley will be better than Doncic. I haven't got a crystal ball, if I did I would be buying a lottery tickets now. What I am saying is that people should quit jumping at shadows and let this thing ride out. It will take time and it won't happen over night but to me its refreshing to see the franchise FINALLY take a long term view and commit to it rather than trying to make a quick fix move that saw us waste an opportunity with Cousins by continually surrounding him with quick fix pieces and shipping out any pieces of value in the process.

All I care about is that these kids have a great work ethic, continually work on their game, have great chemistry, fight to the end in every game...even if you are getting blown out by 30. Eventually, work will pay of, development will be evident, the kids will get more comfortable and better at basketball and by addition of these things become better basketball team. I think there is a fair bit of talent on this team that needs development and experience. There will be a lot of experimenting over the next couple of seasons but eventually things will click.
Can we please go back in time and draft Donovan Mitchell?
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
You think WCS is stronger in the paint and didn’t get toyed with last night. WCS is a tweener who doesn’t rim protect/rebound and who IMO doesn’t have a future with the team. Giles is 20, Holmes is a man. I’d prefer Giles out there starting but something tells me they will go easy on it for health precaution
Hmmm, I seem to remember that Willie had 12 rebounds last night, and didn't even play in the 4th quarter. And, by the way, Willie is what the NBA is going to. Quick athletic centers that can run the floor, like Jordan Bell, and Clint Capela.