Kings @ Suns - Game 1 Preview

[jcwkings]

It doesn't "need" anything, but if you're going to state something like a fact, you better be prepared to back it up on here.

I think he made a fair assumption based on what we have seen in preseason, if the Clipper game was the closest thing to a dress rehearsal than WCS is the backup center and Ben is the backup SG(at least for the first eight games). Those guys will surely play short of Joerger severely cutting the rotation down, meaning Barnes or Tolliver start at the 4, Koufos is the backup C, Temple plays backup SG and backup PG.

 

[Livinthedream]

It doesn't "need" anything, but if you're going to state something like a fact, you better be prepared to back it up on here.

What's got you all wound up? I'm not a newbie who needs to be taught the rules of the board. I made as much of a comment as I chose to.

How about not taking it personal when someone doesn't agree with you. There is no basis for saying Ben will not play at all. In my humble opinion.

 

[Livinthedream]

My opinion is that although WCS hasn't shown well, I think he will get an opportunity to either play his way into a solid role or play his way out. But I doubt the team is going to shelve him right away after the promise he showed last season.

 

[twslam07]

What's got you all wound up? I'm not a newbie who needs to be taught the rules of the board. I made as much of a comment as I chose to.

How about not taking it personal when someone doesn't agree with you. There is no basis for saying Ben will not play at all. In my humble opinion.

Who said anything about taking it personal? I asked an honest question and you made a very odd comment back like I was challenging you. You did a poor job communicating the first time around. It's as simple as that. No need to derail this thread any longer. You live and you learn...

 

[twslam07]

I think he made a fair assumption based on what we have seen in preseason, if the Clipper game was the closest thing to a dress rehearsal than WCS is the backup center and Ben is the backup SG(at least for the first eight games). Those guys will surely play short of Joerger severely cutting the rotation down, meaning Barnes or Tolliver start at the 4, Koufos is the backup C, Temple plays backup SG and backup PG.

I think using the preseason as a gauge for who will and will not get minutes is useful to an extent. Joerger often times gave players the night off or decided that guys like Cousins & Gay are going to get 20-25 min a game. That's not going to happen in the regular season if our team remains healthy. We have 12 players who are used to getting minutes (Collison, Lawson, Afflalo, Temple, McLemore, Gay, Casspi, Barnes, Tolliver, Cauley-Stein, Koufos, Cousins). It's foolish to think that Joerger is going to roll with a 12 man rotation. I'll try my best below to make it work.

PG - Collison (24 min) / Lawson (20 min) / Temple (4 min)
SG - Afflalo (24 min) / Temple (12 min) / McLemore (16 min)
SF - Gay (28 min) / Barnes (16 min) / Casspi (4 min)
PF - Tolliver (16 min) / Cauley-Stein (16 min) / Casspi (12 min) / Cousins (4 min)
C - Cousins (32 min) / Koufos (16 min)

Cousins - 36 min
Gay - 28 min
Collison - 24 min
Afflalo - 24 min
Lawson - 20 min
Temple - 16 min
McLemore - 16 min
Barnes - 16 min
Casspi - 16 min
Tolliver - 16 min
Cauley-Stein - 16 min
Koufos - 16 min

Is this what Kings fans are expecting? I'm certainly not. If we do not make any trades & nobody gets injured, somebody (and more like a few people) are going to get cut out of the rotation. I think it would be interesting to hear who people think or prefer it to be.

 

[jcwkings]

I think using the preseason as a gauge for who will and will not get minutes is useful to an extent. Joerger often times gave players the night off or decided that guys like Cousins & Gay are going to get 20-25 min a game. That's not going to happen in the regular season if our team remains healthy. We have 12 players who are used to getting minutes (Collison, Lawson, Afflalo, Temple, McLemore, Gay, Casspi, Barnes, Tolliver, Cauley-Stein, Koufos, Cousins). It's foolish to think that Joerger is going to roll with a 12 man rotation. I'll try my best below to make it work.

PG - Collison (24 min) / Lawson (20 min) / Temple (4 min)
SG - Afflalo (24 min) / Temple (12 min) / McLemore (16 min)
SF - Gay (28 min) / Barnes (16 min) / Casspi (4 min)
PF - Tolliver (16 min) / Cauley-Stein (16 min) / Casspi (12 min) / Cousins (4 min)
C - Cousins (32 min) / Koufos (16 min)

Cousins - 36 min
Gay - 28 min
Collison - 24 min
Afflalo - 24 min
Lawson - 20 min
Temple - 16 min
McLemore - 16 min
Barnes - 16 min
Casspi - 16 min
Tolliver - 16 min
Cauley-Stein - 16 min
Koufos - 16 min

Is this what Kings fans are expecting? I'm certainly not. If we do not make any trades & nobody gets injured, somebody (and more like a few people) are going to get cut out of the rotation. I think it would be interesting to hear who people think or prefer it to be.

No, I expect at most ten players will get minutes when we are fully healthy. In that situation the odd men out would likely be Ben, if Temple is backup SG and either WCS, Koufos or Tolliver. I think Casspi and Barnes will both see anywhere from 20-28 minutes.

 

[KingsFanGER]

So the Suns are a rebuilding Team and we can expect to win by 20?
Strange from my point of view the Suns backcourt is clearly above league average with Bledsoe, Knight and Booker and will cause huge problems, if we defend like we did versus the Clippers. Based on preseason play we also are facing a frontcourt of Tyson Chandler, who can at least contain Boogie, and a potential unicorn player in Chriss, who can stretch the floor for their guards.
We are more experienced and with Tucker eventually not playing are a bit deeper.
I personally don't expect an easy win.

 

[kingsboi]

Hopefully Booker does not remind us who we should have drafted.

He will trust me, as will Myles Turner when they play Indiana.

 

[k_dubb90]

i just want this season to be the year where we win the games we are supposed to win, which means no more losses to trash teams like the sixers or nets

 

[KingMilz]

So the Suns are a rebuilding Team and we can expect to win by 20?
Strange from my point of view the Suns backcourt is clearly above league average with Bledsoe, Knight and Booker and will cause huge problems, if we defend like we did versus the Clippers. Based on preseason play we also are facing a frontcourt of Tyson Chandler, who can at least contain Boogie, and a potential unicorn player in Chriss, who can stretch the floor for their guards.
We are more experienced and with Tucker eventually not playing are a bit deeper.
I personally don't expect an easy win.

Don't sleep on TJ Warren

 

[206Fan]

I think our backcourt will get absolutely lit up on defense. Lawson/Afflalo is no match on defense for Bledsoe/Booker.

I think Knight will do a good job coming off the bench too.

I think this game is a lot closer than your prediction.

 

[KingMilz]

I think our backcourt will get absolutely lit up on defense. Lawson/Afflalo is no match on defense for Bledsoe/Booker.
I think Knight will do a good job coming off the bench too.

I think this game is a lot closer than your prediction.

It will be interesting to see how we use Temple this year against bench spark-plugs (or even starters), we finally have a guy off the bench that can play D and is not a completely awful on offense as a wing in terms of decision making(e.g James Anderson and James Johnson).

The Suns have as much untapped potential as any of the up and coming teams such as the Twolves/Nuggets/Lakers there young talent in Booker/Warren/Len/Chriss/Bender can hang in terms of talent/potential with any of those more publicized young teams.

 

[twslam07]

I think our backcourt will get absolutely lit up on defense. Lawson/Afflalo is no match on defense for Bledsoe/Booker.

I think Knight will do a good job coming off the bench too.

I think this game is a lot closer than your prediction.

I too am worried about the backcourt defense judging by Lawson's & Afflalo's defensive reputation the past few years. However, both Lawson & Afflalo were top 3 in defensive rating during the preseason. Let's hope that trend continues Wednesday night.

 

[Chupacabra]

Why do so many people keep talking about barnes playing pf? Do not want.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Why do so many people keep talking about barnes playing pf? Do not want.

Because Barnes/Casspi/Gay or Tolliver at PF are our best bets against most teams smaller lineups. Out of those guys Barnes seems to be the one with the best resume as a defender, who can hit some threes.
Like most teams we will start big with DMC + KK and sub in our smaller and more mobile spacing lineup, which will play the most minutes.
Everything would change in our favour, when Willie could show, that he can contribute more than some solid pick&roll defense. But preseason didn't get the hopes up in that regard.

 

[KingMilz]

Why do so many people keep talking about barnes playing pf? Do not want.

Cause that's where Coach DJ extensively played him when the Grizz were healthy

 

[Bricklayer]

Why do so many people keep talking about barnes playing pf? Do not want.

Not a question of wanting. Question of what Joerger has said. And while Barnes is still a battler on defense, he's lost some lateral quickness with age so its one of those things that makes a certain level of sense...if you don't mind having a former swingman playing "power" forward.

But its also Willie's fault. Since the arrival of this new coach I have not seen him do anything to explain to the coach that the position is his. And once its not his, well, our options are various but awkward.

 

[King Baller]

We shall see but IMO Willie is the best PF to start the game. Tolliver should get the bench minutes along with Koufos. I don't think Barnes could have done a better job defending Blake Griffin than we saw.

 

[Blob]

So the Suns are a rebuilding Team and we can expect to win by 20?
Strange from my point of view the Suns backcourt is clearly above league average with Bledsoe, Knight and Booker and will cause huge problems, if we defend like we did versus the Clippers. Based on preseason play we also are facing a frontcourt of Tyson Chandler, who can at least contain Boogie, and a potential unicorn player in Chriss, who can stretch the floor for their guards.
We are more experienced and with Tucker eventually not playing are a bit deeper.
I personally don't expect an easy win.

If you can't have a little blind optimism before the first game of the season when can you have it?

 

[Blob]

We shall see but IMO Willie is the best PF to start the game. Tolliver should get the bench minutes along with Koufos. I don't think Barnes could have done a better job defending Blake Griffin than we saw.

That may be your opinion but that's not what we are going to see happen. I don't know how much clearer signs need to be to conclude Koufos and Boogie are our starters at 4 and 5. This is not a "we shall see...." situation. This is the line-up we are going to roll with. Certainly you are entitled to think this is not an ideal pairing based on last year, and I concur with you to a degree. But last year is not this year, and there are few other variables you have to factor in before saying those two cannot be effective together:

• We are playing a slower pace (more catered to Koufos skills)
• We are playing in more structured system (one Koufos knows)
• Koufos is leaner than he was last year (more agility)
• Boogies is leaner and healthier than last year ( more agility)

There are other variables that I have touched upon previously, namely, if you are having Koufos and Willie in your rotation, I don't think you want them on the floor at the same time, because neither one of them is comfortable away from the basket on offense. The floor shrinks and you become easier to defend. So then you say well maybe one of them needs to be removed from the rotation. Well, why would we do that? One, Koufos has proved to be a capable starter, a legitimate 10/10 guy. He's produced like Tolliver never has. He was a back-up behind all-stars or borderline all-stars in Gasol and Randolph or else he would probably done more.

Then you have Willie who on raw potential with a coach who didn't think much of him put up FAR better numbers in his rookie season than Tolliver ever has in his journeyman career:

• Tolliver career stats: 6.0 PPG 3.5 RPG 41% FGs 10 PER
• Willie rookie stats: 7.0 PPG 5.3 RPG 56% FGs 15 PER

There's a reason Tolliver has bounced around the league. It's because he's a limited player who can get hot 1 out of 5 games or 1 out 25 games and go for 7 for 7. I thought it was amusing when someone said Tolliver's "HOT SPOT" is the right corner. When you average 5 points per game and you are a 35% career three point shooter, a tick above average, you don't have a hot spot, you have a lukewarm spot and you do little to influence the outcome. I am not trying to trash Tolliver, because I think her can be a valuable role player for us. But trying to elevate him to starting PF caliber player is uncalled for. With the rare exception of when lightening is captured in a bottle and his jumper is wet as the ocean, he's just not that good.

 

[lawlman91]

There's a reason Tolliver has bounced around the league. It's because he's a limited player who can get hot 1 out of 5 games or 1 out 25 games and go for 7 for 7. I thought it was amusing when someone said Tolliver's "HOT SPOT" is the right corner. When you average 5 points per game and you are a 35% career three point shooter, a tick above average, you don't have a hot spot, you have a lukewarm spot and you do little to influence the outcome. I am not trying to trash Tolliver, because I think her can be a valuable role player for us. But trying to elevate him to starting PF caliber player is uncalled for. With the rare exception of when lightening is captured in a bottle and his jumper is wet as the ocean, he's just not that good.

If we see that Tolliver and Cousins are both shooting bigs, then it would be reasonable to alternate them so that they never play at the same time, and we can use Willie/Koufos as our non-shooting bigs. Koufos is good all-around, can't shoot. Willie is athletic, can block, but has difficulty with rebounding. But Willie and Koufos cannot occupy the floor at the same time. Either way, we have two bigs on the floor at all times. But we can choose to go small by pushing our SFs to PFs when we want to. Ideally we would see Willie develop a post game as an answer to small-ball: quick enough to guard stretch 4s, big enough to punish the stretch 4s on the block. While shooting would be a nice cherry on top, we have a nice safety net with Tolliver and our SFs that can masquerade as 4s, if we ever need shooting, so we can afford to have Willie develop a post game first.

 

[twslam07]

There's a reason Tolliver has bounced around the league. It's because he's a limited player who can get hot 1 out of 5 games or 1 out 25 games and go for 7 for 7. I thought it was amusing when someone said Tolliver's "HOT SPOT" is the right corner. When you average 5 points per game and you are a 35% career three point shooter, a tick above average, you don't have a hot spot, you have a lukewarm spot and you do little to influence the outcome. I am not trying to trash Tolliver, because I think her can be a valuable role player for us. But trying to elevate him to starting PF caliber player is uncalled for. With the rare exception of when lightening is captured in a bottle and his jumper is wet as the ocean, he's just not that good.

When you shoot over 41% from the right corner on 119 attempts over the last 2 years, he's entitled to call it his "hot spot." Especially since that equates to 1.24 points per shot from that spot (for reference, GSW led the league with 1.12 points per field gold attempt last year).

 

[Blob]

When you shoot over 41% from the right corner on 119 attempts over the last 2 years, he's entitled to call it his "hot spot." Especially since that equates to 1.24 points per shot from that spot (for reference, GSW led the league with 1.12 points per field gold attempt last year).

I guarantee you if you look up the Dubs PPS from corner three, it will be higher than 1.24 PPS. So your reference is misleading, intentionally or unintentionally so. As far as Tolliver having a "hot spot" I will concede this point FWIW. But in general the short corner three is almost every shooter's "hot spot" whether from right or left side of the court, because (1) shorter shot than wings and top of key and (2) a lot of those shots come on swing pass resulting in an uncontested attempt.

 

[twslam07]

I guarantee you if you look up the Dubs PPS from corner three, it will be higher than 1.24 PPS. So your reference is misleading, intentionally or unintentionally so. As far as Tolliver having a "hot spot" I will concede this point FWIW. But in general the short corner three is almost every shooter's "hot spot" whether from right or left side of the court, because (1) shorter shot than wings and top of key and (2) a lot of those shots come on swing pass resulting in an uncontested attempt.

You're arguing a point that really isn't there. The percentage Tolliver shoots from the corner is a very efficient shot in today's basketball. A team would take 1.24 points per field gold attempt all day. There's really no denying that fact.

And to answer your question, Golden State's percentage is a tiny bit lower than Tolliver's "hot spot" so remind me never to take your "guarantees" too seriously

 

[ESP47]

Not you two again. Sigh...

 

[Kingsfan23]

Ken Catanella just reiterated on Jason Ham's podcast that the players that give the team the best chance to win will play. Didn't sound like any favoritism to youth

 

[lawlman91]

Not you two again. Sigh...

kingsfans.com is never boring

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

The key to this season is to win the games that we should win and win most of the 50/50 games.

If we can do that, we will be in the playoffs. GO KINGS!!!

 

[kingsboi]

I'll be there. Bledsoe and Booker are going to feast on this backcourt...the bigs need to hold it down, should be a fairly matched ball game.

 

[gunks]

If you can't have a little blind optimism before the first game of the season when can you have it?

Honestly, with our team, before the first game is about the only time we CAN be blindly optimistic! Then reality rears it's cruel, cruel, ugly head.

On that note....We win by 40 and Big Papa becomes the first Kings rookie since Jason Thompson to record a 20/10 game in his NBA debut!