Kings sign David Stockton to multi-year deal

Any chance is dad is interested in coming in as an assistant coach or something?

I think that if John was interested in coaching, he could name his price and place. John Stockton has always been a very private person. He has never shown any interest in returning to basketball in any capacity. Doesn't mean he won't change his mind, but if so, I think the Jazz would be first in line for his services.
 
I'll throw it out there

Landry, Stauskas, Ray Mac, our pick

For

Ty Lawson , Wilson Chandler

2015-16 kings

Pg: Lawson/Collison/Stocton
Sg: Chandler/ mcLemore
Sf: Gay/ Casspi
Pf: Free agent/gay/Jt
C: Cuz/Jt/free agent

Since were doing dream scenario's, here's one. We offer Jimmer Butler as close to a max salary as our cap flexabiltiy allows. We'll be sitting at around just over 52 mil and the Bulls will will be sitting at just under 62 mil. The cap is supposed to be around 67.5 mil. We have to allow for our first round pick, which is around 3.5 mil, so we'd have around 12 mil or so to throw at Butler if we do nothing else. So lets say that the Bulls are reluctant to match that offer but don't want to walk away with nothing. We offer them McLemore and perhaps Landry or Thompson as part of a sign an trade. Or if they prefer the capspace, just Mclemore. That way they get a young athletic player that may in time replace Butler. We retain our draft pick and draft Willie Cauley-Stein and we resign Miller and Casspi for one more year. So then our roster looks like this.

PG: Collison, Miller, McCallum
SG: Butler, Stauskas
SF: Gay, Casspi, Stauskas (small lineup)
PF: Cauley-Stein, Thompson, Landry, Moreland
C: Cousins, Cauley-Stein, Thompson

Four of the starting five would be very solid in Collison, Butler, Gay, and Cousins. You could start Cauley-Stein, or at first bring him off the bench and start JT. Butler shores up the defense and brings consistency to the offense. I realize that signing Butler isn't much of a reality, but stranger things have happened. I think our signing Butler is more likely than Denver trading Lawson, What's their incentive? They already have their PG of the future in Lawson, who is averaging around 9 assists a game. Chandler by the way is a 6'8" SF, not a SG. But I guess he could play some SG if Casspi can. Another smalll problem with your trade is that the salaries don't match up. Don't know if you bothered to check it with Trade Checker, but it fails. There's around a 6 mil difference.

The first question I would ask, is how many games do you think we lost last season because of the PG position? Then how many games do you think we lost because of our weakness at the PF position, or our lack of a true backup center? I think I could make a better case for the latter than the former, and if you agree, then why are we trying to fix a position that really doesn't need that much fixing? Is the position perfect? No, of course not, but it's not a liability either. Where we suffered was when Cousins went to the bench, or had to miss a game. The drop off was dramatic. There's no way we can replace Cousins, but we can at least shore up the position to the point were we don't go down the dumper when he's not on the floor.

The second point of contention would be the inconsistency at the SG position. Hopefully, that would resolve itself with another year experience under both McLemore's and Stauskas belts. But if the organization has doubts, then I'd try and do a deal like the one I proposed, which would probably cost us one of our young SG's. At the moment, McLemore probably has more value on the market, so logic dictates it would be him that goes. I'm not anxious to move McLemore, and would only do it if I knew we were getting a serious upgrade at the position. I'm against trading young talent with potential for a one or two year fix.
 
Since were doing dream scenario's, here's one. We offer Jimmer Butler as close to a max salary as our cap flexabiltiy allows. We'll be sitting at around just over 52 mil and the Bulls will will be sitting at just under 62 mil. The cap is supposed to be around 67.5 mil. We have to allow for our first round pick, which is around 3.5 mil, so we'd have around 12 mil or so to throw at Butler if we do nothing else. So lets say that the Bulls are reluctant to match that offer but don't want to walk away with nothing. We offer them McLemore and perhaps Landry or Thompson as part of a sign an trade. Or if they prefer the capspace, just Mclemore. That way they get a young athletic player that may in time replace Butler. We retain our draft pick and draft Willie Cauley-Stein and we resign Miller and Casspi for one more year. So then our roster looks like this.

PG: Collison, Miller, McCallum
SG: Butler, Stauskas
SF: Gay, Casspi, Stauskas (small lineup)
PF: Cauley-Stein, Thompson, Landry, Moreland
C: Cousins, Cauley-Stein, Thompson

Four of the starting five would be very solid in Collison, Butler, Gay, and Cousins. You could start Cauley-Stein, or at first bring him off the bench and start JT. Butler shores up the defense and brings consistency to the offense. I realize that signing Butler isn't much of a reality, but stranger things have happened. I think our signing Butler is more likely than Denver trading Lawson, What's their incentive? They already have their PG of the future in Lawson, who is averaging around 9 assists a game. Chandler by the way is a 6'8" SF, not a SG. But I guess he could play some SG if Casspi can. Another smalll problem with your trade is that the salaries don't match up. Don't know if you bothered to check it with Trade Checker, but it fails. There's around a 6 mil difference.

The first question I would ask, is how many games do you think we lost last season because of the PG position? Then how many games do you think we lost because of our weakness at the PF position, or our lack of a true backup center? I think I could make a better case for the latter than the former, and if you agree, then why are we trying to fix a position that really doesn't need that much fixing? Is the position perfect? No, of course not, but it's not a liability either. Where we suffered was when Cousins went to the bench, or had to miss a game. The drop off was dramatic. There's no way we can replace Cousins, but we can at least shore up the position to the point were we don't go down the dumper when he's not on the floor.

The second point of contention would be the inconsistency at the SG position. Hopefully, that would resolve itself with another year experience under both McLemore's and Stauskas belts. But if the organization has doubts, then I'd try and do a deal like the one I proposed, which would probably cost us one of our young SG's. At the moment, McLemore probably has more value on the market, so logic dictates it would be him that goes. I'm not anxious to move McLemore, and would only do it if I knew we were getting a serious upgrade at the position. I'm against trading young talent with potential for a one or two year fix.

Getting Jimmy Butler is a dream scenario. Getting Lawson and Chandler is in the realm of possibility. Denver is going to tear that team down and go into full rebuild. This trade is good for them because they unload two guys in their primes who will just waste away their for two young prospects in McCallum and Stauskas, whatever our pick is assuming 6th or 7th, plus they are also going to be in the top 10.

They can sell their fans right away on a young core say of


Nurkic
Faried
WCS
Hezonja
Stauskas
McCallum

plus they still have Gallinari who has been playing better of late and could be traded as well for more young pieces. For fans the only thing better than a winning ball club is a team of young guys scrapping. Denver gets this in one fell swoop, we get our two guys in their prime that know Karl well to add to Cuz, Gay and possibly Collison still in the mix(although I could see him as trade bait as well). I think that works for both sides, and lets not forget if theres another NBA FO in bigger shambles than us its Denver. That trade can be had.

I think a roster with

Cousins
Gay
Lawson
Chandler
Collison
Amir Johnson?
JT
Ben Mac
Omri
Andre Miller

is pretty solid and deep enough to get to the playoffs in the west.
 
Since were doing dream scenario's, here's one. We offer Jimmer Butler as close to a max salary as our cap flexabiltiy allows. We'll be sitting at around just over 52 mil and the Bulls will will be sitting at just under 62 mil. The cap is supposed to be around 67.5 mil. We have to allow for our first round pick, which is around 3.5 mil, so we'd have around 12 mil or so to throw at Butler if we do nothing else. So lets say that the Bulls are reluctant to match that offer but don't want to walk away with nothing. We offer them McLemore and perhaps Landry or Thompson as part of a sign an trade. Or if they prefer the capspace, just Mclemore. That way they get a young athletic player that may in time replace Butler. We retain our draft pick and draft Willie Cauley-Stein and we resign Miller and Casspi for one more year. So then our roster looks like this.

PG: Collison, Miller, McCallum
SG: Butler, Stauskas
SF: Gay, Casspi, Stauskas (small lineup)
PF: Cauley-Stein, Thompson, Landry, Moreland
C: Cousins, Cauley-Stein, Thompson

Four of the starting five would be very solid in Collison, Butler, Gay, and Cousins. You could start Cauley-Stein, or at first bring him off the bench and start JT. Butler shores up the defense and brings consistency to the offense. I realize that signing Butler isn't much of a reality, but stranger things have happened. I think our signing Butler is more likely than Denver trading Lawson, What's their incentive? They already have their PG of the future in Lawson, who is averaging around 9 assists a game. Chandler by the way is a 6'8" SF, not a SG. But I guess he could play some SG if Casspi can. Another smalll problem with your trade is that the salaries don't match up. Don't know if you bothered to check it with Trade Checker, but it fails. There's around a 6 mil difference.

The first question I would ask, is how many games do you think we lost last season because of the PG position? Then how many games do you think we lost because of our weakness at the PF position, or our lack of a true backup center? I think I could make a better case for the latter than the former, and if you agree, then why are we trying to fix a position that really doesn't need that much fixing? Is the position perfect? No, of course not, but it's not a liability either. Where we suffered was when Cousins went to the bench, or had to miss a game. The drop off was dramatic. There's no way we can replace Cousins, but we can at least shore up the position to the point were we don't go down the dumper when he's not on the floor.

The second point of contention would be the inconsistency at the SG position. Hopefully, that would resolve itself with another year experience under both McLemore's and Stauskas belts. But if the organization has doubts, then I'd try and do a deal like the one I proposed, which would probably cost us one of our young SG's. At the moment, McLemore probably has more value on the market, so logic dictates it would be him that goes. I'm not anxious to move McLemore, and would only do it if I knew we were getting a serious upgrade at the position. I'm against trading young talent with potential for a one or two year fix.


I would love Jimmy Butler on the Kings and agree he is worth a Max deal. I also think Chicago might balk at matching. Who would have thunk that the Kings do not sign Tyreke? ROY and leader of the team? But there he is starting at PG for the Pellies. The Bulls have there own issues with Rose's injuries and rumors of Thibs being on the move.They may Decide McLemore is a nice replacement for Butler if the price is high.
 
Do you think people will come to games to see him? Or to attract FAs? I'm thinking no.

He could become a cap spacer in a trade that could be released for no cost later. Casual fans would say, "Oh we got that Stockton kid." Not saying it is a game changer but it could turn into an asset.
 
That's exactly it. The guaranteed money is probably ZERO. There has been a growing trend in the NBA to sign fringe roster guys in April to "multi-year" contracts which play out the remainder of the season and are then fully unguaranteed for the next season. This contract can then be traded as if it was real money that really counted towards the salary cap and the receiving team can then simply waive it.

As I said, very popular these days. Let's be honest, did everybody see Stockton and how lost he looked on court the few minutes he played? This is not a diamond-in-the-rough signing. This is a salary-cap-manipulation signing. And, to be honest, probably one of those last-gasp "I'm still a salary-cap guru" moves from a PDA who has seen the Vlade on the wall.
I have a problem with your last few statements. What type of rookie wouldn't get lost in his first time playing? Not to mention he didn't even get more than a few hours of practice with his teammates. Being unrealistic if you expected him to come in and get you 10pts and 4asts in his first stint. If he did do that, he's be a 1st round pick.

There's nothing wrong in giving a young player an opportunity.
 
I have a problem with your last few statements. What type of rookie wouldn't get lost in his first time playing? Not to mention he didn't even get more than a few hours of practice with his teammates. Being unrealistic if you expected him to come in and get you 10pts and 4asts in his first stint. If he did do that, he's be a 1st round pick.

There's nothing wrong in giving a young player an opportunity.

There's nothing wrong with giving a young player an opportunity, but that's not what we're doing here.

We're not looking at Stockton and saying, "Gee, somebody might snap this kid up, better pay him!" And it's not like we're hurting at the PG. We have Collison and RayMac locked up and the inside track on getting Miller for (most likely) the vet's minimum if we want him. Imagine that we want to trade one of our PGs (for not-a-PG) or not bring Miller back. Even so, Stockton is not remotely close to the best option out there. Philly has 5 second round picks this year that they're obviously going to be selling off. Would you rather buy a Philly pick and grab Andrew Harrison in the second round to fill out the PG, or settle for David Stockton? The choice is simple. (And obviously Harrison is not the only option in the second round or even among the undrafted players this year.)

What we're blatantly doing is we're fattening up our unguaranteed money on this summer's salary cap. If Stockton's unguaranteed salary next year is, say, $900K, that would give us an additional $1.35M of "free" salary matching for any one trade we make this summer. If we don't throw him in as salary filler on a trade, then we release the unguaranteed money.

You'll note that we did NOT give a contract like this to Sim Bhullar - and I believe there's a reason. Vivek (whether it's from a basketball or simply a marketing standpoint) doesn't want to end up trading Sim. A contract like this becomes trade bait. So Bhullar will most likely stay as an affiliate player, come into training camp next year, and get assigned to Reno again. Stockton is expendable.
 
There's nothing wrong with giving a young player an opportunity, but that's not what we're doing here.

We're not looking at Stockton and saying, "Gee, somebody might snap this kid up, better pay him!" And it's not like we're hurting at the PG. We have Collison and RayMac locked up and the inside track on getting Miller for (most likely) the vet's minimum if we want him. Imagine that we want to trade one of our PGs (for not-a-PG) or not bring Miller back. Even so, Stockton is not remotely close to the best option out there. Philly has 5 second round picks this year that they're obviously going to be selling off. Would you rather buy a Philly pick and grab Andrew Harrison in the second round to fill out the PG, or settle for David Stockton? The choice is simple. (And obviously Harrison is not the only option in the second round or even among the undrafted players this year.)

What we're blatantly doing is we're fattening up our unguaranteed money on this summer's salary cap. If Stockton's unguaranteed salary next year is, say, $900K, that would give us an additional $1.35M of "free" salary matching for any one trade we make this summer. If we don't throw him in as salary filler on a trade, then we release the unguaranteed money.

You'll note that we did NOT give a contract like this to Sim Bhullar - and I believe there's a reason. Vivek (whether it's from a basketball or simply a marketing standpoint) doesn't want to end up trading Sim. A contract like this becomes trade bait. So Bhullar will most likely stay as an affiliate player, come into training camp next year, and get assigned to Reno again. Stockton is expendable.

I agree with you completely. I'll be stunned if it amounts to anything else, and that's not a knock on Stockton. Hell, he's getting a little exposure out of the deal if nothing else.
 
There's nothing wrong with giving a young player an opportunity, but that's not what we're doing here.

We're not looking at Stockton and saying, "Gee, somebody might snap this kid up, better pay him!" And it's not like we're hurting at the PG. We have Collison and RayMac locked up and the inside track on getting Miller for (most likely) the vet's minimum if we want him. Imagine that we want to trade one of our PGs (for not-a-PG) or not bring Miller back. Even so, Stockton is not remotely close to the best option out there. Philly has 5 second round picks this year that they're obviously going to be selling off. Would you rather buy a Philly pick and grab Andrew Harrison in the second round to fill out the PG, or settle for David Stockton? The choice is simple. (And obviously Harrison is not the only option in the second round or even among the undrafted players this year.)

What we're blatantly doing is we're fattening up our unguaranteed money on this summer's salary cap. If Stockton's unguaranteed salary next year is, say, $900K, that would give us an additional $1.35M of "free" salary matching for any one trade we make this summer. If we don't throw him in as salary filler on a trade, then we release the unguaranteed money.

You'll note that we did NOT give a contract like this to Sim Bhullar - and I believe there's a reason. Vivek (whether it's from a basketball or simply a marketing standpoint) doesn't want to end up trading Sim. A contract like this becomes trade bait. So Bhullar will most likely stay as an affiliate player, come into training camp next year, and get assigned to Reno again. Stockton is expendable.
Good post......makes sense in a factorial way! :)
 
ummm....why? to me this is one of those infamous Pete moves where he makes a move for the sake of making a movie, fit or not.
 
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Remember reading somewhere that Reno essentially abandoned "The System" part way through the d-league season, so maybe we can't discount the stats entirely anymore. Anyone following things there more closely?
 
I don't know man.

3 years at $8.2mil for this guy... I think we could have signed him for cheaper. Only competition was the Jazz, right?
 
Where did you get those contract numbers from? Google said he only made 30k this season in the D-League so that would be quite the bump

The numbers are pulled out of thin air. Stockton was signed to a multi-year deal, but next year is UNGUARANTEED meaning all he's got really is a slot in training camp.
 
Where did you get those contract numbers from? Google said he only made 30k this season in the D-League so that would be quite the bump
The numbers are pulled out of thin air. Stockton was signed to a multi-year deal, but next year is UNGUARANTEED meaning all he's got really is a slot in training camp.

Word is he really impressed V in a private workout in Santa Barbara, just after he was snubbed from the D-League all-star game. Apparently his father from behind the scenes put the kaibosh on that, apparently to "keep him humble". Very shrewd of Stockton Sr... as it apparently paid off for the young Stockton sooner rather than later.

Stockton has been told he's in the running for the starting job next year, which is why he signed here instead of Utah. Vivek likes the young man's "open mindedness".
 
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Stockton is awesome. I have advocated McCallum in the past. But after watching his iso ball last night, David looked like a potential star tallent in comparison. People get to hung up on Davids size. But the way he plays it is not as important.
 
Stockton is awesome. I have advocated McCallum in the past. But after watching his iso ball last night, David looked like a potential star tallent in comparison. People get to hung up on Davids size. But the way he plays it is not as important.

It is on the defensive end. I would be interested in seeing how Stockton guards Andre Miller when Dre posts him up in practice.
 
It is on the defensive end. I would be interested in seeing how Stockton guards Andre Miller when Dre posts him up in practice.

To be fair to the new little guy, Dre is pretty much the best post-up point guard to play in the league since Gary Payton
 
Stockton is awesome. I have advocated McCallum in the past. But after watching his iso ball last night, David looked like a potential star tallent in comparison. People get to hung up on Davids size. But the way he plays it is not as important.
People forget how horrible Ray was for most the season he couldn't even beat out Sessions who literally had the worst string of performances by a King in recent history (when you consider how garbage the likes of Thornton/Outlaw/James Johnson/Salmons and company were that's really impressive). I notice a lot of people think Ray will be the back up even if we bring Miller back but I don't see that occurring if we bring Miller back we may as well move on from Ray since Karl pretty much trusts Miller with his life and quiet frankly despite being a human torturous is a better player.

I really think we need to get a different back up PG than both of them, Dre this year has for the first time in his career had more bad games (played some bad ball in Washington) than good ones and he's literally a shell (since he's a torturous) of what he was 2 season's back in Denver (let alone his prime), I'd love Dre to play forever but I think his time has somewhat expired finally I hope I'm wrong since that will be a terrible day for me. If we bring Dre back it has to be as a 3rd guard where he can't be competing for the back up spot which he would be with Ray we need a back up he can't take time from.
 
To be fair to the new little guy, Dre is pretty much the best post-up point guard to play in the league since Gary Payton
Sam Cassell? Andre Miller only started posting up after Sam killed him in there in the 2003 playoffs in the first round with Minny.
 
Sam Cassell? Andre Miller only started posting up after Sam killed him in there in the 2003 playoffs in the first round with Minny.

You say "only" started playing in the post in 2003 but that was 12 years ago at this point. In the modern drive and dish NBA, post-up guards are far and few between.
 
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