Kings select for the 8th pick - Nik Stauskas
- Thread starter Rockmeister
- Start date
I am not taking too much out of that clip. Its obviously editted for some dramatic effect. One thing I can draw from the clip is that we had interest in Gordon (widely known) and Exum (not known) and obviously it cam down to Payton and Stauskas. I am sure PDA would love to have both as that has the potentil to be one very nice backcourt going forward.
Honestly I don't know whether to be happy or not. I'm cool with the pick, and really its last year's pick that I'm upset about. This draft only reinforces the fact that Ben was a huge let down, but then its annoying that all indications show the FO not being willing to move Ben. They're essentially saying the same things about Nik that they were about Ben. They wanted him all along, even thought of moving up to draft him, prototypical SG with a great shot... I just don't see Nik being a PG nor do I think it makes sense to keep two top 10 picks fighting for one spot. At some point one gets in the way of the other, and I'd rather we actually start using our assets now to fill gaps in our team. As a result of all this I have serious reason to doubt the FO's competence (and my confidence in them was never good to begin with after letting Tyreke go and drafting Ben).
That said .. The end of July can't come soon enough so that I can get to actually bashing or praising this FO with better reason. Last year it was "give the FO time because its their first year". Now it's " wait till end of off season ". I'm done waiting, I want results and accountability.
That said .. The end of July can't come soon enough so that I can get to actually bashing or praising this FO with better reason. Last year it was "give the FO time because its their first year". Now it's " wait till end of off season ". I'm done waiting, I want results and accountability.
I'll ride the half-full glass wagon on this pick so I'll start with a reaction to half-empty glass wagon riders.
Sometimes, we ride too much on the mock drafts like that's how the draft should eventually unfold. Well, those guys putting mocks on forums or draft sites are not paid millions to assess players. So IMO, mock drafts is just as good as most avid basketball fan would assess. A good example was Ben's slide last season. The kid was projected number 1 pick in most mocks until he slide to us.
But even how much of playing time we give to the kid, he just never even came close to being talked for ROY at all. Same could be said to one other previous pick we had in Thomas Robinson.
We'll I'm not saying I would always support the FO here. But I think the Stauskas pick is a legit pick at #8 because.
1 - Ben has not yet panned out to be the perimeter threat we wanted him to be. Stauskas should light a fire on him.
2 - We only have Ben as SG right now. Lights out and starter quality SG will not be a plenty in the FA market this season.
3 - People dreamed of Klay on Kings jersey. Stauskas could be that guy at a lower price.
4 - Drafting a PF would render our platoon of PF cheaper in the trade market because we will not have much option but to unload several of those to let our lottery player get a good grind of playing time.
5 - Elfrid Payton would really be a nice player. But right now, IMO Ray Mac is not a very far to Payton's rookie season until Payton learns to shoot.
6 - Boston drafted Smart. So maybe they'll unload Rondo eventually. If our FO got a good hint on that, that could very well be something that could tip Payton out of the equation. If we are willing to take on Love without any guarantee for extension. The FO should be willing to take on Rondo next.
7 - I was once on the Vonleh wagon but eventually I turned into something like trade down for Stauskas or Payton. We never did that route. Or maybe we actually tried but teams in those range never had anything on our roster that interest them. So rather than lose our guy, draft him now or forever regret another Drummond or Lillard chance.
Sometimes, we ride too much on the mock drafts like that's how the draft should eventually unfold. Well, those guys putting mocks on forums or draft sites are not paid millions to assess players. So IMO, mock drafts is just as good as most avid basketball fan would assess. A good example was Ben's slide last season. The kid was projected number 1 pick in most mocks until he slide to us.
But even how much of playing time we give to the kid, he just never even came close to being talked for ROY at all. Same could be said to one other previous pick we had in Thomas Robinson.
We'll I'm not saying I would always support the FO here. But I think the Stauskas pick is a legit pick at #8 because.
1 - Ben has not yet panned out to be the perimeter threat we wanted him to be. Stauskas should light a fire on him.
2 - We only have Ben as SG right now. Lights out and starter quality SG will not be a plenty in the FA market this season.
3 - People dreamed of Klay on Kings jersey. Stauskas could be that guy at a lower price.
4 - Drafting a PF would render our platoon of PF cheaper in the trade market because we will not have much option but to unload several of those to let our lottery player get a good grind of playing time.
5 - Elfrid Payton would really be a nice player. But right now, IMO Ray Mac is not a very far to Payton's rookie season until Payton learns to shoot.
6 - Boston drafted Smart. So maybe they'll unload Rondo eventually. If our FO got a good hint on that, that could very well be something that could tip Payton out of the equation. If we are willing to take on Love without any guarantee for extension. The FO should be willing to take on Rondo next.
7 - I was once on the Vonleh wagon but eventually I turned into something like trade down for Stauskas or Payton. We never did that route. Or maybe we actually tried but teams in those range never had anything on our roster that interest them. So rather than lose our guy, draft him now or forever regret another Drummond or Lillard chance.
your making me look at the screen cross eyed with your comment. vonleh is 18 and won't turn 19 until august. ben is already 21 and will be 22 in the beginning of 2015. so ben gets a pass for more time because hes "super super young"? dude steven adams is going to be starting this upcoming season. perk is going to be traded or his contract is going to expire. i watched the videos of adams when he was a rookie. he said the coaching staff only had 2 things for him to focus on, rebounding and setting picks. they weren't trying to overwhelm him by doing stuff out of his comfort zone unlike *ahem* our coaching staff.
thank you for pointing that out "I truly have no idea what we are trying to do. It's as if all 3 of them (Vivek, Malone, PDA) want to do their own thing and each want a different type of player. " i was going to point that out but probably get roasted by the pro vivek ppl "give them more time etc". hey he hires smarter ppl than him to make decisions right?
the gerbil puppet, malone and vivek reminds me of when they played tyreke, mt and it in the starting line up. lol wtf was going on? someone gonna get frozen out of the offense (decision making) instead of the PG orchestrating the offense.
thank you for pointing that out "I truly have no idea what we are trying to do. It's as if all 3 of them (Vivek, Malone, PDA) want to do their own thing and each want a different type of player. " i was going to point that out but probably get roasted by the pro vivek ppl "give them more time etc". hey he hires smarter ppl than him to make decisions right?
the gerbil puppet, malone and vivek reminds me of when they played tyreke, mt and it in the starting line up. lol wtf was going on? someone gonna get frozen out of the offense (decision making) instead of the PG orchestrating the offense.
There's 6 months until he turns 22! Plus he lost a season in college due to academic issues (I think it's for that reason don't quote me on that). Ben is the classic high upside player. You develop him right you can get a really great role player and elite 3rd option out of him, possibly 2nd if he develops any sort of handle. As of right now he is a question mark. He is a valuable trade asset at the sry least. He is young, athletic, coachable, good shooter once he settles in more, and is willing to learn. And he comes cheap.
Steven Adams still has plenty to prove. He's also a young guy playing for a great team and will certainly see more minutes this year. However, with the guard heavy offense that OKC uses, I don't expect his stats to change significantly, except his rebounds. Someone has to get all the bricks Westbrook and Durant throw up when shooting ill advised shots.
Steven Adams still has plenty to prove. He's also a young guy playing for a great team and will certainly see more minutes this year. However, with the guard heavy offense that OKC uses, I don't expect his stats to change significantly, except his rebounds. Someone has to get all the bricks Westbrook and Durant throw up when shooting ill advised shots.
Regarding Boston though - they drafted Young which means they're in less need of an SG now. They might be unloading Rondo, but now that the draft is over I feel that we have less to offer them. We also need to remember that Ben had an awful rookie season. Teams may still be willing to take him on for his potential, but he's not a guy that they're going to be queueing up for.
You obvious don't understand basketball if you think Nik will have more of an impact on this team than Payton would of. The only up side to Nik is his shot, he's not a game changer at the 2, he will struggle to off shots off the dribble in the NBA... shooting don't win you games in the NBA...and the best players and teams in the NBA don't rely on jump shots....Unless you have a coach name Pop.
I have two words for everyone who is ready to give up on Ben..including the FO. "Paul George"...no one knew who the hell this kid was his first two seasons or coming into the draft. Ben need to spend a summer with the likes of D-Wade. He could learn a lot and for that reason I believe he is our 2 guard going forward.... I much rather us hold on to Ben and have him turn into a below average player then to let him go and he becomes one of the better 2 guard in the league...
Of course you can win games shooting lights out but how many games you're going to win, if all you do is shoot... The NBA is not college and trust me a team that relies on the jumper will die by the jumper.. A shooting team will win games with above average FG% and lose every game where there are average or below average shooting the ball. If shooting jump shots win you games then the leagues best team never got the memo...Payton and Vonleh has the capability to change games.. Nik....??? What is he going to do when James Harden got the ball in his hand with 10 seconds on the shot clock? Get his ankle broken... When the reality finally hits I will reference this thread when we realize we're in the same position as last year.
LOL at some of the comments and general train of thought on this forum sometimes. You guys think this train wreck is going to be a quick fixer upper just because of Cousins/Rudy? No freakin way. The team needs talent in any way we can get it right now and we're in no position to be picky about what position the kid might play because we have close to zero assets right now if he is the best player on the board at #8 we have to take him. I would have loved to have any of the 1-7 prospects too but we were SOL on lottery day as usual. No way i throw in the towel for Ben right now unless a really good player comes back our way just because he had a bad rookie season.
Aaaaaand you lost me.
First, Paul George had great measurables coming out of college as a SG/SF hybrid. And his rookie season was not nearly as bad as Ben's, his being more of a Giannis "Look at how much potential he has" season than a "DEAR LORD MAKE IT STOP" season. George's defensive abilities were noticeable almost from the second he stepped onto the floor whereas Ben's main defensive highlight was barely slowing Westbrook down in December. Ben certainly has the physical tools but he certainly didn't do as much with them as George did in his first year in the league.
Second, Ben McLemore and Wade play styles of basketball that are polar opposites. Dwyane Wade has always been an inside-out penetrator with natural born driving ability that is nigh impossible to teach with an exterior game that has always struggled to match his game within the key (hence all the Tyreke-Wade comparisons over the past several seasons). Ben McLemore theoretically is an outside-in performer, his interior game reliant on his outside shot falling to keep a defense from simply slumping away from him. While his athleticism is world class, he doesn't have the born talent to slide to the hoop of a Wade or Tyreke or a Ray Allen for that matter. On that note, if Ben is going to spend some time with a Miami two-guard, I'd much rather it be Ray than Wade. Telling Ben to be like Wade is akin to telling a cat to be a wolf.
Thirdly, I'm not sure who you're referring to but most everyone here hasn't "given up" on Ben Mclemore.
I've been on the Stauskas train the last few weeks, but he makes sense on so many levels for us
-This pick addressed by far the weakest position on the team. People who say it's PF or PG are flat out wrong. We have NBA level talent at those slots, albeit probably not exactly the the NBA talent we want. But it's there. SG on the other hand was banking on the worst starter in the league on improving (yes, no one else in the NBA had such a negative impact with so many minutes). What this Stauskas pick does is it protects us from Ben completely flopping out of the league and leaving us high and dry at the SG slot. What it also does is create competition and let Ben know that he's on the clock with the team and better get his ass in gear. If a team selecting another lottery pick at your position 1 year later doesn't lite a fire under you to get your game going, then nothing will. After the year Ben had, his job shouldn't be safe whatsoever. We want him to prove everyone wrong that he's going to win the starting job from Stauskas and show the improvements made to his game.
-At the same time, this allows us to not be totally screwed if we're priced out of IT with ball-handling and playmaking in the backcourt. Especially with a team anchored by Rudy and Cuz, both high USG and good play makers (when they want to be) a Ray-Stauskas back-court is something that could feasibly work. We'd need to see Ray improve, but that pairing would have the potential to work. Before adding a playmaker like Stauskas, we were at the mercy of IT in FA essentially.
-His fit long-term with Rudy and Cuz can't be understated. I agree with a lot of the comparisons made about him in various threads- Manu- Hornacek-Harden with OKC, etc. Those guys made careers off being outstanding off-ball shooters and scorers while still having the ability to be a playmaker and creator in the back-court. I just think how often Cuz, IT, and Gay collapsed the defense last season and kicked it out to a 3pt shooter who bricked a shot. Stauskas should be able to fill that role beautifully and be that long-range shooter we've needed for quite some time.
-This pick addressed by far the weakest position on the team. People who say it's PF or PG are flat out wrong. We have NBA level talent at those slots, albeit probably not exactly the the NBA talent we want. But it's there. SG on the other hand was banking on the worst starter in the league on improving (yes, no one else in the NBA had such a negative impact with so many minutes). What this Stauskas pick does is it protects us from Ben completely flopping out of the league and leaving us high and dry at the SG slot. What it also does is create competition and let Ben know that he's on the clock with the team and better get his ass in gear. If a team selecting another lottery pick at your position 1 year later doesn't lite a fire under you to get your game going, then nothing will. After the year Ben had, his job shouldn't be safe whatsoever. We want him to prove everyone wrong that he's going to win the starting job from Stauskas and show the improvements made to his game.
-At the same time, this allows us to not be totally screwed if we're priced out of IT with ball-handling and playmaking in the backcourt. Especially with a team anchored by Rudy and Cuz, both high USG and good play makers (when they want to be) a Ray-Stauskas back-court is something that could feasibly work. We'd need to see Ray improve, but that pairing would have the potential to work. Before adding a playmaker like Stauskas, we were at the mercy of IT in FA essentially.
-His fit long-term with Rudy and Cuz can't be understated. I agree with a lot of the comparisons made about him in various threads- Manu- Hornacek-Harden with OKC, etc. Those guys made careers off being outstanding off-ball shooters and scorers while still having the ability to be a playmaker and creator in the back-court. I just think how often Cuz, IT, and Gay collapsed the defense last season and kicked it out to a 3pt shooter who bricked a shot. Stauskas should be able to fill that role beautifully and be that long-range shooter we've needed for quite some time.
These are my thoughts but the way the video is constructed when Vivek was going around asking people Nik or Elfrid PDA hesitated big time and then agreed to Nik. Now I don't know if this was edited intentionally to make it look like Vivek was calling the shots, but the video as it stands shows Vivek making personnel decisions.
yeah i don't know what you see in ben but i see a undeveloped hyper athletic danny green. i don't see him as a elite third option because he has glaring holes in his game (ball handling) and defense. you know what those are called, role players. i'll use gerald green in comparison. he has 3 pt shooting, ball handling, decent defense & athleticism. is his the elite 3rd or 2nd option for his team? he's just a role player.
look i like ben. he just needs to be placed in a system because he doesn't have those ball handling skills to be creative in getting his own shots. nik on the other hand has those characteristics to be an elite 3rd option. ball handling, great shooter, passing and decent athleticism.
steven adams stats don't jump at you analytically but the eye test can tell you that he affects a bunch of shots just being out on the court. analytics don't tell you how tough or how much heart he has. the guy has been hit in the head several times and its nothing to him. he just goes back to doing what he does on the court.
look i like ben. he just needs to be placed in a system because he doesn't have those ball handling skills to be creative in getting his own shots. nik on the other hand has those characteristics to be an elite 3rd option. ball handling, great shooter, passing and decent athleticism.
steven adams stats don't jump at you analytically but the eye test can tell you that he affects a bunch of shots just being out on the court. analytics don't tell you how tough or how much heart he has. the guy has been hit in the head several times and its nothing to him. he just goes back to doing what he does on the court.
If you're right about Ben's potential and we hope you are, we must face an immediate fact- Ben was sadly lacking in all basics of the game except hustle last year. At the end of the season he was featured and played an improved game but not nearly enough to make a contributing starter this year. Therefore a team problem since we had no one else. Now we have Stauskas who is also unproven as a starter. So let thef season begin and let the two of them duke it out for minutes. Whoever loses out for starting nod gets to continue developing off the bench like most young talents. I think the selection Stauskas is the best thing that could have happened for Ben's future.
I think I'm through being in denial about Ben. I remember when we drafted Ben, Scot Pollard said he had concerns which shocked me at the time because LBJ had posted "y'all are sleeping on McLemore" during the draft. But Scot said Ben could not go to his left, and it wasn't the kind of thing he thought could be developed at this stage. Now here we are with a super athletic guy who can jump out of the gym, is great on social media, who I really like... and.... who might not be able to play any kind of feature role in the NBA. I was saying to myself all year "Ben is not this bad. Ben is not this bad. Ben is not this bad." But it didn't take. From that first take to the hoop in the first game (where he bricked the dunk off the front of the rim), till the dunk contest silliness with Shaq...he has "lack of confidence" pasted right across his forehead. I always felt happy if Ben simply didn't look horrible for a few minutes (low bar). If we can still get something for him, we should. If we really ever declined a shot at Rondo because Ben was sacred (I doubt it), then shame on us.
Lets get Scot Pollard for our "special consultant" instead of Mully. Scot is, frankly, brilliant. Make him Associate GM / Director of Player Personnel till Pete's contract is up and groom him for the job. I think Pete is just being set up as the fall guy anyway - no sign that Vivek has real confidence in him and I even wonder if in fact he's in some kind of doghouse over the Landry deal. Yes I know I'm making it up... just guessing - no proof.
As for Stauskas, I'm really really happy with him at #8 but it seemingly just underscores the McLemore blunder. If Pete can unload McLemore we'll probably be better off. I think Scot was right about him.
Lets get Scot Pollard for our "special consultant" instead of Mully. Scot is, frankly, brilliant. Make him Associate GM / Director of Player Personnel till Pete's contract is up and groom him for the job. I think Pete is just being set up as the fall guy anyway - no sign that Vivek has real confidence in him and I even wonder if in fact he's in some kind of doghouse over the Landry deal. Yes I know I'm making it up... just guessing - no proof.
As for Stauskas, I'm really really happy with him at #8 but it seemingly just underscores the McLemore blunder. If Pete can unload McLemore we'll probably be better off. I think Scot was right about him.