[Game] Kings @ Raptors - 3/20/2024 - 4:30PM PST/7:30PM EST

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R

Rain man

Starter
#91
#91
Will be interesting to see how the rotation shakes out when Lyles, Sasha, and Kevin return, as there are legitimately 12 guys who were in the rotation the last time they were healthy - the nine guys playing now, plus the fact that Lyles, Sasha, and Kevin were all rotation guys when they got hurt (Sasha was getting minutes as the bench 3 alongside Lyles and a center).

At this point, I'd assume we are starting Fox-Keon-Keegan-Barnes-Domas. Monk and Lyles are your two main guys off the bench, and are part of your core rotation. We are playing Mitchell 12-15 minutes per night as the Fox backup. His minutes playing alongside Fox seem to have dried up with the inclusion of Keon in the rotation. Likewise, we play Len 10-15 minutes per night as the Sabonis backup (though sometimes less if we go with a smaller 5 for a few minutes).

That is 9 guys. For the playoffs that is probably it, though against certain opponents you might bench Len and play a smaller 5. We have seen Brown pretty consistently play 9.5 guys, with that last rotation guy playing some nights and not others. It will be interesting to see if one of Sasha, Kevin, or Duarte carves out that role as the 10th man and gets consistent minutes every night. It would hard to believe Kevin goes from starting to totally out of the rotation. But Duarte is also playing well in the 9th man role right now, so he might get a look at spot #10. And Sasha was playing well before we got hurt. And as I mentioned, the 10th guys has traditionally not been guaranteed anything for Brown. Fascinating to see what will happen with that 10th man spot.
 
Sac.Kings

Sac.Kings

All-Star
#92
#92
KF8 said:
I don't think they were showcasing davion. The whole showcasing thing is just more of a fan conpiracy speculation and there is no evidence of it. Ellis was just never given a chance because brown doesn't really trust newcomers.
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Well I’m not sure how else to explain it. He played 302 minutes in November and December and then played a total of 81 minutes in January and February (I believe he was injured for a stretch at this point in time, but I’m not positive). As of the beginning of this month, he’s played way more and we are playing better because of it. Since the start of the season, we have won 16 out of 20 games if he has played 15 or more minutes, with us being 7-0 when he starts. Those are bonkers numbers even if the sample size is smallish. If Keon plays extended minutes, we do better. The numbers support that and so does the eye test.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#93
#93
Sac.Kings said:
Well I’m not sure how else to explain it. He played 302 minutes in November and December and then played a total of 81 minutes in January and February (I believe he was injured for a stretch at this point in time, but I’m not positive). As of the beginning of this month, he’s played way more and we are playing better because of it. Since the start of the season, we have won 16 out of 20 games if he has played 15 or more minutes, with us being 7-0 when he starts. Those are bonkers numbers even if the sample size is smallish. If Keon plays extended minutes, we do better. The numbers support that and so does the eye test.
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They were maintaining flexibility with his contract. Remember he was on a two way until the trade deadline.
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#95
#95
Ellis has been taking Kevin Huerter's minutes since he returned to the rotation, not Davion's. You can't blame Mike Brown for continuing to trust K'Von though up until his slump started to interfere with our playoff chances. It's tough to crack an NBA rotation when the vets ahead of you have already earned the trust of the coaching staff. It sucks for Kevin that his injury coincided with basically the entire fanbase wanting him to get demoted anyway. I'm happy Ellis is starting now too but I do feel for Kevin just a bit as I'm sure the collective shrug from all of Kings fandom after his serious injury has not gone unnoticed.
 
PorchSurfin

PorchSurfin

Starter
#97
#97
pdxKingsFan said:
It may have been a bit of both. And DM does seem to have picked up his game a bit as well. This was still a team built to grow over the next two to three seasons.
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It has been frustrating because we saw the potential last season and were expecting a jump. 40-28 with 14 to go seems like a disappointment but in actuality it's right where they were last season and in a healthier western conference is pretty legit.

We've just laid some stinkers, and been owned by a couple teams, which has increased the level of frustration.

Overall, it's nice to be rooting for a team that isn't looking at draft position. I want more, like everyone else, but growing pains are real.
 
PorchSurfin

PorchSurfin

Starter
#98
#98
NewArena said:
Keon Ellis feels like some fantastic mid season trade, on the smaller scale of Peja for Artest. The Kings look a whole lot different right now.
https://twitter.com/statuses/1770610723024187849
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Keegan with a +33, Ellis with a +28, Fox with a +22 led the team tonight. I think Keon helps Fox dial in on D more than KVon just because Fox can depend on more than Murray helping him lock down backcourts. I also think Keon helps Murray be a locked in defender because he doesn't have to play down so far on defense.

I just hope Keegan can get his shot back and be more confident with the ball in his hands. This lineup tonight and going forward is the perfect storm for unlocking Super Keegan.
 
RoyalDiva

RoyalDiva

Starter
#99
#99
Where was our beam tonight?? I was working in midtown and I swear it wasn't lit. This was at 7:45PM. I didn't see it at K and 16th St, so I drove to Alhambra to a less congested skyline. Still didn't see it!
 
Telemachus

Telemachus

Starter
#102
#102
KF8 said:
I don't think they were showcasing davion. The whole showcasing thing is just more of a fan conpiracy speculation and there is no evidence of it. Ellis was just never given a chance because brown doesn't really trust newcomers.
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He was on a two-way and could only play so many games. After the trade deadline, they upgraded his contract so he can play as much as they want.
 
Telemachus

Telemachus

Starter
#103
#103
PorchSurfin said:
Keegan with a +33, Ellis with a +28, Fox with a +22 led the team tonight. I think Keon helps Fox dial in on D more than KVon just because Fox can depend on more than Murray helping him lock down backcourts. I also think Keon helps Murray be a locked in defender because he doesn't have to play down so far on defense.

I just hope Keegan can get his shot back and be more confident with the ball in his hands. This lineup tonight and going forward is the perfect storm for unlocking Super Keegan.
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It also allows Fox to guard the weaker of the two guards to start the game, which let's him conserve some of his energy.
 
ShastaKingsFan

ShastaKingsFan

All-Star
#107
#107
KF8 said:
I don't think they were showcasing davion. The whole showcasing thing is just more of a fan conpiracy speculation and there is no evidence of it. Ellis was just never given a chance because brown doesn't really trust newcomers.
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Except, the Kings made it known that Mitchell, Huerter, and Barnes were available for trade. Around that same time, Mitchell returned to the rotation
 
megapoxy

megapoxy

Bench
#108
#108
It seems like ages that we had a no-stress match and giving many minutes to the... 3rd unit in the end of the match. Just a small push at the 2nd quarter and they couldn't catch up with us anymore.
Kings dominated the glass, caused turnovers, got easy fast break points, did the obvious things that needed to be done and won comfortably.

I liked Kessler's performance, he seems confident, hit a three a midrange jumper, a layup with nice movements, another 3 was in and out, he is not "just a defensive player" and he should be given a chance when things don't work out well for the others. Duarte has been really good and efficient in offense, he is not shooting bricks like the start of the season, not fouling that much, completely different player after the All Star break I think. Huerter's absence will help him play more.

The only kind of negative thing in the match to me was Davion, I liked him a lot the past couple of years, he was perhaps the only player we had that was a "dog" in the defense, but in the offense apart from some crossover layups he doesn't shoot the ball well and cannot create many chances/passes for his teammates either. I think we need an upgrade in the reserve point guard position. Monk helps a lot, perhaps Colby can evolve and take his place next season, I haven't seen extended minutes of Ford or Mason Jones to know what they are capable of but I assume both of them are better shooters from distance.

And Keegan, he hit the 3 after the 24" violation, but all 5 during the match didn't go in with most of them not so good shots. I mean open shots but it's not that they went "in and out" or something. Still he played really well, very aggressive on the glass, was chasing the offensive board in every play, won a charge, could have won another one as well. He found ways to contribute a lot when his 3s are not falling.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#113
#113
hrdboild said:
Ellis has been taking Kevin Huerter's minutes since he returned to the rotation, not Davion's. You can't blame Mike Brown for continuing to trust K'Von though up until his slump started to interfere with our playoff chances. It's tough to crack an NBA rotation when the vets ahead of you have already earned the trust of the coaching staff. It sucks for Kevin that his injury coincided with basically the entire fanbase wanting him to get demoted anyway. I'm happy Ellis is starting now too but I do feel for Kevin just a bit as I'm sure the collective shrug from all of Kings fandom after his serious injury has not gone unnoticed.
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You can't say he didn't do this to himself. As a role player on this team, you can't be both a defensive liability and have a streaky shot. His 3pt % is 43rd among all qualified SGs... that's not going to cut it coming from a position that's supposed to hold your best shooter. I think a change of scenery could do him good. Keon has been rightfully given a lot of praise, but I would like to see him look fcr his shot more. He plays timid offense. If he can shoot 4-5 3s a game at a 38% clip, I think he ends up being the starter next year.

This means we can hide Fox on defense at SG (like Curry), while also allowing Keegan to focus more on his offensive growth.
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#114
#114
206Fan said:
You can't say he didn't do this to himself. As a role player on this team, you can't be both a defensive liability and have a streaky shot. His 3pt % is 43rd among all qualified SGs... that's not going to cut it coming from a position that's supposed to hold your best shooter. I think a change of scenery could do him good. Keon has been rightfully given a lot of praise, but I would like to see him look fcr his shot more. He plays timid offense. If he can shoot 4-5 3s a game at a 38% clip, I think he ends up being the starter next year.

This means we can hide Fox on defense at SG (like Curry), while also allowing Keegan to focus more on his offensive growth.
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I don't disagree. I think K'Von was the right fit for the Beam Team last year as his elite shooting helped propel the Kings to the playoffs and build a new identity. He'll always be an essential part of the incredible story of that 2022-2023 Kings team. As the team grows toward bigger goals than just making the playoffs though, he may no longer be the right fit for this team going forward. Keon brings more of what we've been missing on defense and his relative strengths are more conducive to building a consistent winning team. I was one of the many calling for Keon to start over Kevin before this injury made it a formality.

I'm not just a numbers guy though -- I watch sports because I like the human drama of people challenging themselves and overcoming obstacles. I like rooting for the people in the jersey not just what the jersey represents. And from a human point of view, whatever the circumstances, it just sucks when a guy gets injured and his own team's fans are lowkey sortof happy about it. Or at least not unhappy about it. I get it. I was part of the collective shrug and I'm not trying to make anyone else feel bad for shrugging -- just admitting that I feel bad about it. Even if he's been struggling lately, he's still a year one Beam Teamer.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#117
#117
hrdboild said:
I don't disagree. I think K'Von was the right fit for the Beam Team last year as his elite shooting helped propel the Kings to the playoffs and build a new identity. He'll always be an essential part of the incredible story of that 2022-2023 Kings team. As the team grows toward bigger goals than just making the playoffs though, he may no longer be the right fit for this team going forward. Keon brings more of what we've been missing on defense and his relative strengths are more conducive to building a consistent winning team. I was one of the many calling for Keon to start over Kevin before this injury made it a formality.

I'm not just a numbers guy though -- I watch sports because I like the human drama of people challenging themselves and overcoming obstacles. I like rooting for the people in the jersey not just what the jersey represents. And from a human point of view, whatever the circumstances, it just sucks when a guy gets injured and his own team's fans are lowkey sortof happy about it. Or at least not unhappy about it. I get it. I was part of the collective shrug and I'm not trying to make anyone else feel bad for shrugging -- just admitting that I feel bad about it. Even if he's been struggling lately, he's still a year one Beam Teamer.
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Those who were around before 99 will recall that in order to get to 2002 we had to shed fan faves and new fan faves to build the team that almost crossed the finish line.

I think there is still a role for Kevin on the team since he's not that expensive. He's also nice insurance on the second unit for next season if Monk gets a godfather offer from another team. As long as he understands that role I think he can flourish in it, and if he's not thrilled with it, he should be able to still use it to help him land his next gig. Pacers apparently need a 3 point specialist and we seem to have a nice trading relationship with them :D
 
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