Kings owners balk at paying costs for planning Sacramento arena

But hey, it's not like every single news source in the nation is now rapidly fanning the rumors of Burkle buying the team. Good job George, you may have just sealed your demise.
 
I think we are not connecting all the dots with the Maloof family. Remember that the family makes decisions as a team. They're running a PR game right now. George has been appointed the lead of the arena negotiations because he doesn't have a connection with the city and doesn't mind being labeled the bad guy. Gavin tells us how much he loves Sacramento, cries in front of the camera and cheers at the games. This creates a separation between the team and the negotiations. Fans are more willing to come out to the games as long as there is that separation in their minds. In reality, however, the whole family is on the same page when it comes to this arena. If you dislike the approach George is taking, then you dislike the approach the whole family is taking. Don't be fooled. Gavin and Joe aren't coming to the rescue on behalf of Sacramento if things get sticky.
 
Livinthedream said:
I think we are not connecting all the dots with the Maloof family. Remember that the family makes decisions as a team. They're running a PR game right now. George has been appointed the lead of the arena negotiations because he doesn't have a connection with the city and doesn't mind being labeled the bad guy. Gavin tells us how much he loves Sacramento, cries in front of the camera and cheers at the games. This creates a separation between the team and the negotiations. Fans are more willing to come out to the games as long as there is that separation in their minds. In reality, however, the whole family is on the same page when it comes to this arena. If you dislike the approach George is taking, then you dislike the approach the whole family is taking. Don't be fooled. Gavin and Joe aren't coming to the rescue on behalf of Sacramento if things get sticky.
Click to expand...


I don't think it's that simple.

The question is, are there conflicting desires within the family? And, is George trying to sabotage the whole deal so that they are forced to move? Or do they as a family all see Sacramento as their last/best option right now? Remember, one year ago, they showed up at the NBA owner meetings and requested to move to Anaheim, out of the blue, on a deal they had been negotiating in secret (unbeknowst to the City). And contrary to what they were saying to the fans in public. They were CLEARLY trying to get out of town at that point, and it's been admitted that George was the driving force behind that. Why would that have changed? If he can scuttle these negotiations, perhaps he thinks he can still get a move to go down. That's what I think his real goal is. Negotiating is one thing, not negotiating in good faith is another. The latter is what I think George is doing.
 
gunks said:
**** This noise.

When I win the MegaMillions jackpot I'm just gonna buy the team, or go halfsies with Burkle.

Bajaden can be head scout. Bricklayer GM. I'll see what I can do about Sloan.
Click to expand...

Does that mean that Bricky would be my boss? Oh my God! ;)
 
The Hammer said:
I don't think it's that simple.

The question is, are there conflicting desires within the family? And, is George trying to sabotage the whole deal so that they are forced to move? Or do they as a family all see Sacramento as their last/best option right now? Remember, one year ago, they showed up at the NBA owner meetings and requested to move to Anaheim, out of the blue, on a deal they had been negotiating in secret (unbeknowst to the City). And contrary to what they were saying to the fans in public. They were CLEARLY trying to get out of town at that point, and it's been admitted that George was the driving force behind that. Why would that have changed? If he can scuttle these negotiations, perhaps he thinks he can still get a move to go down. That's what I think his real goal is. Negotiating is one thing, not negotiating in good faith is another. The latter is what I think George is doing.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree that its a family decision. If not so, why is Gavin sitting on his hands. Gavin and Joe's silence is deafening! This is pure good cop/bad cop. They're trying to play both ends at the same time. I don't believe a damm thing anyone in that family says anymore.
 
bajaden said:
I tend to agree that its a family decision. If not so, why is Gavin sitting on his hands. Gavin and Joe's silence is deafening! This is pure good cop/bad cop. They're trying to play both ends at the same time. I don't believe a damm thing anyone in that family says anymore.
Click to expand...

Well, if it is a family acting in unison, then they uniformly still want to move to Anaheim, no?
 
I thought Gavin had been pretty sincere of late and truly was ecstatic the team was staying. Now however, I feel conned. No more. Will never look at any of them the same again. If any Maloof showed up tonight I'd boo the hell out of them. Joe and Gavin no longer get the benefit of the doubt with me. If they felt strongly about staying they would have either silenced George or immediately spoke out against what he said.
 
I think the Maloof family as a group would like to get out of the Sac deal. Don't like or appreciate them much and haven't for a long time. But I still hope there is no spectacle at Arco where any Maloof is booed. That just can't help. I hope the fans maintain the high road and let KJ and Stern handle it. What good will come of it if any of the Maloofs are booed at Arco.

Reminds me of what Voltaire is supposed to have said on his deathbed when asked if he wanted to renounce Satan : "I really don't think this is a good time to be making new enemies".

Why risk turning Momma Maloof on us with boorish behavior, or making Gavin choose between blood allegiance and Sac allegiance. We should keep whatever friends we might have in the Maloof family.
 
Livinthedream said:
I guess my question to you is how can George single handedly sabotage everything if these are supposed to be family decisions and he's outnumbered in his view point?
Click to expand...

Who knows. All I know is what I see and what I see tells me that George wants to move this team to Anaheim, badly. His recent actions confirm that. As I said in another post, I don't think he's negotiating in good faith to stay in Sac. As Kevin Johnson says... to get an arena deal done, you can't have one party that secretly doesn't want it to happen so they can move. That's what I think George's position is. I do think Gavin does sincerely want to stay in Sac and would pretty much take the deal in the term sheet, which is a ****ing good deal for the Kings. I think the other family members probably don't care enough to make a stink about George pushing his agenda. Joe for example. Who knows what's going on behind closed Maloof doors. And I don't need to. It's pretty easy just to read his actions. I find it incredibly insulting to my intelligence that he asks us to believe that he is genuinely committed to Sacramento.
 
No Maloof sightings at the game.

VF21, Bajaden, yo are both tremendous writers. And I can't help bit think of another of your posts in our darkest hour last year about how much this team means to you. Well I am beginning to have a problem here. My fandemonium seems to be rubbing off on my (almost) 3 year old. He went with me to the game last night and did not ask to leave in the fourth (a first). He asked for a "22" jersey at the store. And he reassured me that "the white jerseys will win" when I felt all was lost. This **** has gotten real.

It's one thing to mess with the team I and so many others love. But now you are ******* with baby boy's team too.
 
Yeah, even if they are dysfunctional, stupid, and cash strapped – the notion that just George can hang up this deal with his input is a total farce. There are five kids and a mom. The notion that everything has to be unanimous is a farce. Pretty sure Phil wasn’t on call for the negotiations in Orlando. They just keep throwing nonsense out there so they can pull their garbage, and the small minority of fans that will believe anything the Maloofs say just keep regurgitating it.

Three strikes with the fans and city of Sacramento.

With Q and R, they got a decent framework of a deal in Vegas. They made insane demands, like getting to control all of the food and drink for several blocks. When the city refused to give them everything they wanted, the Maloofs abruptly blindsided the city without any warning by blowing up the project.

They tired to move the team and were denied by the league.

Now, while everybody agrees other things had to be worked out, they agreed to several items with the city of Sacramento and AEG in Orlando. When their first payment came due, they started open ended negotiations by claiming several items on the term sheet were not agreed to, called the mayor a liar, and hired a hack lawyer to leak a story to a LA paper in an attempt to scare the city into submission. As the city took the high road and the commissioner kept the deal on life support, George started a massive press tour to anybody that will listen lying and again calling the mayor a lair.

The play by play man does two hours of radio that falls somewhere between shill and woman of ill repute.

What a bunch of sleaze bags.

The Maloofs have taken the same position for 12 years. If you give us everything we want, we’ll say. And when things don’t go their way, they are both erratic and underhanded. The Maloofs are “100% committed to (screwing over) Sacramento (through both greed and incompetence.)"

The NBA owners are only going to step in if they believe the Maloofs are destroying this market. If the Maloofs are going to sell the farce that George is the bad copy, Kings fans should chant “George Must Go” on April 8, 2012 before the meeting.
 
I won't boo the Maloofs, as I don't think that will help anything. But I am sick of the Maloofs. They signed a term sheet that spelled this out. That just means the details of how each party is going to come up with their share, and AEG and the Kings would start negotiating terms of their agreement, etc. There are a lot of details to work out. Like what collateral will the Kings owners be able to put up for the re-financing of their current city debt.

However, that does not mean that the major points out-lined in that agreement are up for renegotiation. That includes who will pay for what and how much. If the Maloofs did not agree with the terms out-lined, the time to object was before everyone signed, not after.

I don't know whether all of the Maloofs are involved in this travesty or only some. I don't think they have the right to trample all over the hearts and hopes of Kings fans, after signing that agreement. The city did what was asked and a lot of people worked extremely hard over the last year. I work in government and I can't tell you how hard, how many hours of overtime, how much dedication had to be brought to bear to get this deal in a ridiculously short amount of time for a government deal. It has been an exemplary effort.

I think it was a more then fair agreement. If the Maloofs can't afford this, then they can't afford a proper NBA team either. I desperately want a new owner(s). Thank god, Stern has our backs. If the Maloofs don't get the message Stern just sent them, they're also too stupid to own an NBA team.

I don't suppose the league has the ability to force them to sell and doubt the other owners want to set that example. I guess we can just hope that their own financial troubles and possible inability to honor the term sheet they signed, will force them to sell. At this point it's also obvious that the Kings will never be competitive with these owners in place. They flat out haven't got the money for that.

So, to hell with the Maloofs. I have to live with them as owners for the forseeable future, but I don't have to like them and I'm certainly through with defending them, at all. This is despite the fact that I think Gavin wants to stay. That just isn't enough. Not anymore. I've been stabbed in the back by them for the last time.
 
I won't even say Maloofs anymore. It's all George and the rest are just clowns who follow his lead. If they had any brains at all, they would see that George has run every enterprise they have and turned each one into either nothing or junk. They haven't spoke up to him, so they deserve whatever comes their way.

I'm not sure how George envisioned winning this battle with Stern. I don't think he's that stupid that he thinks his moves aren't utterly transparent to everyone. So is he setting this up to force Stern and the BOG into a corner where the only move is to force the Maloofs into selling? Where perhaps he thinks that his real advantage is in potential litigation against the NBA. I think George's ego took a blow last year when Stern forced the team back to Sacramento. When things didn't go his way in Orlando, I think he cooked up this plan to force the NBA into a position where they would have to be very aggressive financially to pay him for the team or let him move. Either way he may think he is going to get above market price for the team or the move to Anaheim.

Maybe I underestimated thinking George is using the Q & R playbook again. Perhaps he's moved on to using Al Davis level tactics. Doesn't matter though... my money is on David Stern in this battle.
 
To put a finer point on my thinking...

Perhaps this is the best move for George. And again this is all me guessing. George has pretty much nothing left to run in the Maloof Empire. The last asset in play in the Kings. The NBA is a business where only the huge market team has a chance to overspend and still roll in the profits. I think he sees Sacramento as a market where the team can never compete without spending big and spending big means no profits for his main business.

So George never has a strategy where owning the Sacramento Kings is his goal. He wants to cash out the team and Samueli was going to punch his golden ticket until Orlando didn't go his way.

Without Samueli, how does George sell the team and get over market value price? Well just outright selling to Burkle right now is negotiating from a weak position. But perhaps if George starts playing these obvious games, then he's putting some big pressure on the NBA to force him to sell. Now his negotiating position is a lot stronger.

Stern might have some of his own ways of playing, but the one with the least damage to the NBA and Sacramento is if he puts pressure on Burkle to buy at say 375-400 million instead of the current worth of 300 million.

This is what Stern will see as a best possible solution with the least amount of negative PR. How high will Burkle go? No idea there. But Larry Ellison rumors always seem to serve a purpose for driving a price higher.

And in the end, George wins and gets to go take this new found cash and buy up his casino shares or penny stocks or whatever the heck his master plan is.
 
JB_kings said:
To put a finer point on my thinking...

Perhaps this is the best move for George. And again this is all me guessing. George has pretty much nothing left to run in the Maloof Empire. The last asset in play in the Kings. The NBA is a business where only the huge market team has a chance to overspend and still roll in the profits. I think he sees Sacramento as a market where the team can never compete without spending big and spending big means no profits for his main business.

So George never has a strategy where owning the Sacramento Kings is his goal. He wants to cash out the team and Samueli was going to punch his golden ticket until Orlando didn't go his way.

Without Samueli, how does George sell the team and get over market value price? Well just outright selling to Burkle right now is negotiating from a weak position. But perhaps if George starts playing these obvious games, then he's putting some big pressure on the NBA to force him to sell. Now his negotiating position is a lot stronger.

Stern might have some of his own ways of playing, but the one with the least damage to the NBA and Sacramento is if he puts pressure on Burkle to buy at say 375-400 million instead of the current worth of 300 million.

This is what Stern will see as a best possible solution with the least amount of negative PR. How high will Burkle go? No idea there. But Larry Ellison rumors always seem to serve a purpose for driving a price higher.

And in the end, George wins and gets to go take this new found cash and buy up his casino shares or penny stocks or whatever the heck his master plan is.
Click to expand...

Considering what the Dodgers just sold for, overpaying by only 75 or 100 million is a relative bargain. And there's money to be made by somebody. A new arena is going to generate more revenue, a winning team is going to help rebuild brand recognition, and a re-negotiated TV deal is probably on the horizon as well. All of which makes this recent turn of events particularly puzzling. Even if their plan is to cash out, the Maloofs have everything to gain by going along with this arena plan first. They're going to lose more money in moving expenses than they could possibly make up in short-term franchise value and if they kill the arena deal and can't afford the move than they're in an even worse position. They probably need a loan just to be able to move and who's going to give it to them? Essentially they're out there negotiating with no collateral. I don't know what David Stern can do to expediate the process, but it certainly looks like the Maloofs are about to maneuver themselves out of the NBA.
 
im really sorry i know very little about the new arena or our owners (please excuse me if i ask stupid questions)

but who whould want to buy us atm??? we are a bottom feeder club were the owners whould have to fork out for a new arena??

also the new arena who whould make money out of it because looking at outher stadium being built around the world they all seem to run at a massive loss???
 
Uk kings fan said:
im really sorry i know very little about the new arena or our owners (please excuse me if i ask stupid questions)

but who whould want to buy us atm??? we are a bottom feeder club were the owners whould have to fork out for a new arena??

also the new arena who whould make money out of it because looking at outher stadium being built around the world they all seem to run at a massive loss???
Click to expand...

No problem.

1. A man named Ron Burkle who is a grocery store magnate and worth several billion dollars and already owns the Pittsburgh Penguins hockey team and turned them around in a similar fashion (as we're hoping) in Pittsburgh expressed interest (through a representative) a year ago during the NBA owners meeting when KJ pulled off a miracle and got us another year. This event has since been known as the "Burkle bomb". Burkle's interest in buying the team was a key sign that this was a viable market and helped Stern deny the Maloof request to move. Btw... oftentimes profitability does not track with on-court success. The Mariners are consistently one of the most profitable frachises in baseball.

2. The city would own the arena and enter into a revenue sharing deal with the operators (AEG). And I don't think your statement about arenas is accurate. AEG is an arena owning/operating comany (they also own certain franchises), and they are owned by one of the wealthiest men in the world, Phillip Anchuntz. Getting AEG on-board was another indicator that this was/is a viable deal. They are one of, if not the, most prestigious arena comapnies in the world. They own Staples and are working to build an NFL arena in LA.

The value of the arena lies mostly in it's geographical position, the value of the franchise lies in the uniquely passionate fanbase in Sac. To be honest... it's a dream deal, and just about any business person with any knowledge will agree. Not a single business person of any prominence whatsoever in Sacramento has said anything negative about the deal.
 
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The Hammer said:
No problem.

1. A man named Ron Burkle who is a grocery store magnate and worth several billion dollars and already owns the Pittsburgh Penguins hockey team and turned them around in a similar fashion (as we're hoping) in Pittsburgh expressed interest (through a representative) a year ago during the NBA owners meeting when KJ pulled off a miracle and got us another year. This event has since been known as the "Burkle bomb". Burkle's interest in buying the team was a key sign that this was a viable market and helped Stern deny the Maloof request to move. Btw... oftentimes profitability does not track with on-court success. The Mariners are consistently one of the most profitable frachises in baseball.

2. The city would own the arena and enter into a revenue sharing deal with the operators (AEG). And I don't think your statement about arenas is accurate. AEG is an arena owning/operating comany (they also own certain franchises), and they are owned by one of the wealthiest men in the world, Phillip Anchuntz. Getting AEG on-board was another indicator that this was/is a viable deal. They are one of, if not the, most prestigious arena comapnies in the world. They own Staples and are working to build an NFL arena in LA.

The value of the arena lies mostly in it's geographical position, the value of the franchise lies in the uniquely passionate fanbase in Sac. To be honest... it's a dream deal, and just about any business person with any knowledge will agree. Not a single business person of any prominence whatsoever in Sacramento has said anything negative about the deal.
Click to expand...

so why wont the brothers sell then...they have a billioniare wanting to buy them....

also it may not be the case over in the states but in europe almost every stadium is running at a loss (just to clear that one up :) )
 
Uk kings fan said:
so why wont the brothers sell then...they have a billioniare wanting to buy them....

also it may not be the case over in the states but in europe almost every stadium is running at a loss (just to clear that one up :) )
Click to expand...

Ego. They owned the Houston Rockets in the early 80's and regretted selling the team. So now they are going to hold onto the Kings for as long as they can just for spite.
 
Thats kinda how I see it too Section 101.

Maloofs are just coming off as spoiled petulant children. They want us to buy them a fancy new arena, and when we dont... "Waah wahh!! We're gonna move to Anahiem then!"

Seems like Stern is being firm about the Kings staying in Sac though (Thanks KJ!), crazy that Stern is the good guy. I just hope that this nonsense is the death throes of the Maloofs ownership and that when the dust settles, the Kings are in Sac with Burkle as owner.
 
gunks said:
Seems like Stern is being firm about the Kings staying in Sac though (Thanks KJ!), crazy that Stern is the good guy. I just hope that this nonsense is the death throes of the Maloofs ownership and that when the dust settles, the Kings are in Sac with Burkle as owner.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I would not be adverse to that eventual outcome. ;)
 
sorry why Anahiem i never got that part...

Anahiem is close to big teams already isnt it??? which isnt good for buissness and fan base

it doesnt seem a big place when there are big cities without teams already and it has a small population right???
 
Uk kings fan said:
im really sorry i know very little about the new arena or our owners (please excuse me if i ask stupid questions)

but who whould want to buy us atm??? we are a bottom feeder club were the owners whould have to fork out for a new arena??

also the new arena who whould make money out of it because looking at outher stadium being built around the world they all seem to run at a massive loss???
Click to expand...

The other answer other than we already know someone who wants to buy the team is that rich people sometimes like name recognition. Burkle doesn't seem as much into this as the Maloofs but certainly people know him from his ownership of a sports team and not ownership of super markets.

And then for the sports fanatic with so much money they don't know what to do with, it's just plain cool. :) If I had $3 billion, I'd want to buy a sports franchise ESPECIALLY a franchise that was a bottom feeder. There is the challenge of it. If I remember correctly, Burkle took a supermarket and developed it into a chain. Now he is worth a whole bunch. That's an extraordinary achievement. He wants another challenge and if anyone turned this franchise into a franchise to be respected, they would become very, very well known.

If you had 2 billion pounds, you might want to do it also especially with your love of the weak and helpless sports franchises of the world (picture me laughing very, very hard). Despite the humor, that last point IS interesting and you should understand it. As an adult male that has been around a while, I assure you that a certain amount of boredom sets in and new challenges are sought.

Buying a successful franchise is simply like investing in stocks and is done in part just to make money. It is guaranteed to make money unless you REALLY screw up. To buy a poor franchise is for the fun of the challenge. I understand it perfectly as it fits my character.

The history of the Kings is AWFUL dating back not to when they first came to Sacramento but when it first was formed around 1950. They won their only NBA championship back then and have been mediocre to poor since then. That's a remarkable record in a deismal sort of way. Sacramento is the 4th city the franchise has been in.
 
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Uk kings fan said:
sorry why Anahiem i never got that part...

Anahiem is close to big teams already isnt it??? which isnt good for buissness and fan base

it doesnt seem a big place when there are big cities without teams already and it has a small population right???
Click to expand...

The attraction there is that there is a person who has more money than he knows what to do with and he wants another team to play in his arena. I think you are absolutely correct that it's a poor place to move to. I think this is the one factor that helps the Kings as the NBA doesn't want three teams in that area. Makes very little sense as you have observed.
 
The Hammer said:
1. A man named Ron Burkle who is a grocery store magnate and worth several billion dollars and already owns the Pittsburgh Penguins hockey team and turned them around in a similar fashion (as we're hoping) in Pittsburgh expressed interest (through a representative) a year ago during the NBA owners meeting when KJ pulled off a miracle and got us another year. This event has since been known as the "Burkle bomb". Burkle's interest in buying the team was a key sign that this was a viable market and helped Stern deny the Maloof request to move. Btw... oftentimes profitability does not track with on-court success. The Mariners are consistently one of the most profitable frachises in baseball.
Click to expand...
I wonder if Burkle's interest would still be at the same level as last year given that Kings are now "merely" a tenant of the arena. I imagine he would've wanted to have some of the arena ownership/management pie.
 
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