Kings notes: 4th point guard has camp invite (merged)

[Bricklayer]

Give them a chance to play together uninjured BEFORE hammering on their worthlessness. Please.

These players weren't born yesterday, and neither was I. In fact they weren't born 18, 20, or 22 years ago. They are all old vets, and if one watches the league at all when it doesn't pass through Sacramento one has a very good idea what they are going to bring. Or one should.

And you are willfully missing the point that it doesn't matter if one of the guys suddenly morphs into Wilt bleeping Chamberlain -- there are no minutes. They CAN'T justify the money being spent on them because they can't possibly play the minutes it would take to do so or put up the numbers in the time they will get. They don't have to suck for it to be a bad idea. Michael Jordan would be a terrible investment if his *** was pinned to the bench sucking up a huge chunk of your caproom. Its got very little to do with the players -- they're just players. But their CONTRACTS are icky even if you do need them and play them minutes. And they are flat out terrible if you don't.

If you chicken out (and ever heard of no guts no glory?) and want to move Webb's contract, you move it for Glenn Robinson and his ending deal so you get your cap room back and can construct things reasonably. Or you take your "flexible" contracts and you consolidate them into a better player you have time for. But you DON'T let another team dump all of their bad contracts on you and then sit there grinning like an idiot while being unable to unload them. In two years even if Webb's leg just flat fell off in the interim he would represent a huge ending contract with considerable value around the league for freeing up cap space (and as an aside if anything was career-ending the insurance would pick it up). If all you've done between then and now is INTENTIONALLY have his contract collecting splinters on the bench, that's just dumb IMHO.

P.S. My hope for Geoff remains two fold: 1) that he was pressured by Joe Maloof on the issue and did something he would not normally have; 2) the idea that here at some point the rest of the plan for those contracts will reveal itself. But the former is sheer speculation, and the latter gets less likely the further we go along.

 

[6th]

These players weren't born yesterday, and neither was I. In fact they weren't born 18, 20, or 22 years ago. They are all old vets, and if one watches the league at all when it doesn't pass through Sacramento one has a very good idea what they are going to bring. Or one should.

And you are willfully missing the point that it doesn't matter if one of the guys suddenly morphs into Wilt bleeping Chamberlain -- there are no minutes. They CAN'T justify the money being spent on them because they can't possibly play the minutes it would take to do so or put up the numbers in the time they will get. They don't have to suck for it to be a bad idea. Michael Jordan would be a terrible investment if his *** was pinned to the bench sucking up a huge chunk of your caproom. Its got very little to do with the players -- they're just players. But their CONTRACTS are icky even if you do need them and play them minutes. And they are flat out terrible if you don't.

If you chicken out (and ever heard of no guts no glory?) and want to move Webb's contract, you move it for Glenn Robinson and his ending deal so you get your cap room back and can construct things reasonably. Or you take your "flexible" contracts and you consolidate them into a better player you have time for. But you DON'T let another team dump all of their bad contracts on you and then sit there grinning like an idiot while being unable to unload them. In two years even if Webb's leg just flat fell off in the interim he would represent a huge ending contract with considerable value around the league for freeing up cap space (and as an aside if anything was career-ending the insurance would pick it up). If all you've done between then and now is INTENTIONALLY have his contract collecting splinters on the bench, that's just dumb IMHO.

P.S. My hope for Geoff remains two fold: 1) that he was pressured by Joe Maloof on the issue and did something he would not normally have; 2) the idea that here at some point the rest of the plan for those contracts will reveal itself. But the former is sheer speculation, and the latter gets less likely the further we go along.

Excellent post.....simply excellent. I could not have expressed my feelings on the subject any better than this.......nor near as well, for that matter.

 

[Warhawk]

These players weren't born yesterday, and neither was I. In fact they weren't born 18, 20, or 22 years ago. They are all old vets, and if one watches the league at all when it doesn't pass through Sacramento one has a very good idea what they are going to bring. Or one should.

And you are willfully missing the point that it doesn't matter if one of the guys suddenly morphs into Wilt bleeping Chamberlain -- there are no minutes. They CAN'T justify the money being spent on them because they can't possibly play the minutes it would take to do so or put up the numbers in the time they will get. They don't have to suck for it to be a bad idea. Michael Jordan would be a terrible investment if his *** was pinned to the bench sucking up a huge chunk of your caproom. Its got very little to do with the players -- they're just players. But their CONTRACTS are icky even if you do need them and play them minutes. And they are flat out terrible if you don't.

If you chicken out (and ever heard of no guts no glory?) and want to move Webb's contract, you move it for Glenn Robinson and his ending deal so you get your cap room back and can construct things reasonably. Or you take your "flexible" contracts and you consolidate them into a better player you have time for. But you DON'T let another team dump all of their bad contracts on you and then sit there grinning like an idiot while being unable to unload them. In two years even if Webb's leg just flat fell off in the interim he would represent a huge ending contract with considerable value around the league for freeing up cap space (and as an aside if anything was career-ending the insurance would pick it up). If all you've done between then and now is INTENTIONALLY have his contract collecting splinters on the bench, that's just dumb IMHO.

P.S. My hope for Geoff remains two fold: 1) that he was pressured by Joe Maloof on the issue and did something he would not normally have; 2) the idea that here at some point the rest of the plan for those contracts will reveal itself. But the former is sheer speculation, and the latter gets less likely the further we go along.

I know what they bring, and this team needs it all. Brian can rebound, block a few shots, and score a few points. Kenny does a little bit of everything. Corliss can play physical and take it to the hole. When played in the right combination, these guys can help us out. Kenny has showed he can play already - his numbers aren't bad and should only get better with more practice.

No minutes? Excuse me - these are the Kings, "masters" of injury and improv lineups, remember? Let's see - Brad, Bobby, Mike, Peja, and some guy named Chris - none of these players were ever injured and had to sit out games, did they? SAR sat out games last year because of his elbow. No minutes left at all for anyone besides the designated starters over the last few years, right? C'mon. Why don't we just sign five starters to huge contracts and just keep a bunch of vet minimum or draft guys for backups - we'll never need them, right?

There is a difference between "chickening out" and getting rid of a huge salary with injury problems. Maybe BECAUSE OF THE SALRY AND INJURIES, we couldn't get an expiring contract. These guys are not just space fillers and they are pretty healthy.

Again, we are in the first offseason after the trade - there can be trades in the works we don't hear about, or we could hang on to them for a while. IIRC, 2 of the 3 contracts are only for what, 2 more years or so? That isn't exactly forever, you know.

 

[Warhawk]

Anyways - with my last post on the subject - do I miss the Chris of old? You bet - he was one of the best things to ever happen to the Kings and I wish him all the best in everything he does and every game he plays (unless it is against the Kings, of course).

Do I wish we could have traded him straight up for Kevin or Tim - yeah, but who's going to do that with Chris' injuries? We were not going to get a star in return. We just weren't. You and I have no idea what went on behind closed doors and probably never will. I choose to believe that we accepted the best offer we could get.

You act like if we support the trade, we hate Chris. There is another option, you know.

 

[Bricklayer]

That isn't exactly forever, you know.

Actually it is -- I think I should just start a thread with nothing more than the days, hours, and minutes ticking off on our "window". In two years the entire starting lineup is 30+ and the window is sliding shut. In three years its pretty much closed, and in 4 years they're drawing the blinds.

And one more time the essential issue is that NOBODY, not God himself, can rebound, block a shot, or score a basket from the bench (well, maybe God could, but he'd be cheating ).

This isn't the same team regarding injuries, and no team is truly "cursed". Furthermore if we haven't learned the lesson by now, we never will -- no team has ever won anything in the NBA on the basis of "depth". If you're banged up in critical spots, and the other team isn't, the other team WILL win win it matters. KT, Brian and Corliss are only starters on mediocre/lottery teams. If it comes down to depending on them to start when it matters (playoffs), we'll lose. And during the regular season you do NOT spend $16 mil on three duplicative benchers -- one strong player could fill that role. Nobody does that outside of New York. And maybe Dallas. You can have one big contract bencher if you've got minutes for him. Maybe. Many teams don't even do that. But three? That means you've messed up. $16mil buys you a Kevin Garnett in this league, not three benchers fighting each other for the scraps of minutes behind a very durable starting PF and trio of frontcourt starters all accustomed to getting 35min+.

P.S. and in regards to your last post, this has very little to do with the artist formerly known as Webb. This is about how the team is constructed right now. The only way the Webber issue gets reinvolved is because of the stupid "flexibility" excuse used at the time. What our "flexibility" means so far is that we are pinned against the tax threshhold, we just let Darius, Mo, Cat walk, possibly ignored other players with the roster full, and next summer will either have to soar into the luxury tax to resign Peja, just let him walk, or sacrifice Bonzi in order to bring Peja back because our bench is sucking up all of our capspace.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Brick in the words of Bill Clinton "I feel your pain." But there is something to the position that the first off season since aquireing the Philly 3 is not even over yet. I am willing to give GP time, but if we end the season with all 3 still firmly planted on the bench I will be glad to join you in throwing rocks. I guess I have sympathy beceause I see the huge risks involved in keeping Webber and how the Philly deal may have felt like the last opertunity to get anything like market value, but the philly 3 should never have been viewed as anything but chips on the table, intermediaries used to move from Webber to another star cliber player. But like I siad for the moment I will be patient and optimistic.

 

[6th]

because our bench is sucking up all of our capspace.

This is where I have the problem. To trade CWebb and his huge contract for 3 guys sitting on the bench most of the time and have that eat up our capspace just makes me ill. I cannot help but believe that Geoff goofed up by taking on 3 equally difficult to move contracts as Webber's. I have been hoping it was to trade 1, 2, or all 3, but the window for that is really narrowing now, so it does not look likely to happen.

 

[love_them_kings]

This is where I have the problem. To trade CWebb and his huge contract for 3 guys sitting on the bench most of the time and have that eat up our capspace just makes me ill. I cannot help but believe that Geoff goofed up by taking on 3 equally difficult to move contracts as Webber's. I have been hoping it was to trade 1, 2, or all 3, but the window for that is really narrowing now, so it does not look likely to happen.

yep, this is a sore point for me as well. I had hopes that GP was going to prove that this trade was a reasonable (let alone GOOD) move, by showing us these contracts weren't as bad as they seemed, and that these players would be moveable without sacrificing a piece of the core of our team. People complain that Webb was making too much money, considering that he missed a lot of games, so how can we justify spending an equal amount of money for players that are going to stay on the bench in the event that the team can stay healthy?? I understand that keeping Webb was a risk, but I don't think this was the right trade. I'm also not completely sure that acquiring Skinner, Corliss and Kenny wasn't just as big of a risk, in it's own way.

 

[love_them_kings]

Again, we are in the first offseason after the trade - there can be trades in the works we don't hear about, or we could hang on to them for a while. IIRC, 2 of the 3 contracts are only for what, 2 more years or so? That isn't exactly forever, you know.

yeah, but in two years Webb's contract would have been an asset instead of a liability. The trade was made for short term, and I hope they find a way to make it work to benefit the team. If we end up with all those guys on the bench until their contracts run out then I'm not sure how the trade will have made us a better team.

I really hope there are trades in the works that we don't know about. I'm sure the options have been, or are being explored, I'm just not sure how marketable those guys are individually. I thought packaging one or more of them with Bjax would have been our best bet, but obviously that didn't happen.

 

[SacTownKid]

We are still under the Tax threshold, have a deep bench, 2 of the contracts are at least expiring deals next year. Whats the problem again?

Was it the right trade. Maybe not. It was the ONLY trade. I am pretty sure of that.