JerN820
Bench
That and the players are half asleep because they seem to think they are wearing white jerseys out there.
Kings @ Jazz
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That and the players are half asleep because they seem to think they are wearing white jerseys out there.
PurpleHaze
All-Star
Check the line on Spencer and Jason in limited minutes... very impressive in this blow out. Both of them have got to start sooner rather than later or at least play 25+ minutes every night. Brown and Greene are still a ways off if they ever get there - but not Hawes and Thompson
Entity
Hall of Famer
I am right with you on this. EXCEPT the competition they were playing against in the 4th was not quite the elite of the league.
PurpleHaze
All-Star
Yep, I know. But a lot of their production was spread out during most of the game. I would guess only about 20% was in garbage time which in this case was surely entire 4th quarter
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yep, I know. But a lot of their production was spread out during most of the game. I would guess only about 20% was in garbage time which in this case was surely entire 4th quarter
Neither of them did anything at all in the first half -- think Spencer had 4pts maybe 1 reb (and 3fls) and Jason 2pts 2rebs -- so we are talking late third onward. I.e. garbagetime.
Henkel
Starter
Very true but their play through out the season is what warrants one of them getting the start at pf over the likes of Moore.
HighFlyingMonkey
Starter
Are the young guys even learning anything?
I see Hawes (lunging out at shooters, not playing defense with his feet), Thompson (bulldozing on offense), Brown (late clock turnovers) making the SAME mistakes over and over again.
Reggie doesn't seem like a "teacher" type of coach to me, which is what we need right now. He seems like he wants to try to get as many wins as possible, while throwing random minutes for the kids in a thermometer type of way; if they seem like they're playing well, then they get minutes, otherwise, they are benched.
There is still a huge gulf between what needs to be done and what is being done. I agree that Hawes and Thompson only really contributed in garbagetime today. But they need to be getting minutes that are more like the minutes they will get in the future, which is 7-8 minute long stints and being a part of the regular rotation. Reggie's rotation is like Russian Roulette
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Oh I don't dispute that at all. I am beyond impatient now and moving right toward angry. The minute distribution is ridiculous for a rebuilding team. Starting an all 30-something frontcourt on the way to a 5-13 record. That's asinine.
I was just noting that tonight basically all the numbers really were in garbagetime. Not all against entirely garbage opponents mind you -- Milsap and AK47 were out there a lot. But certainly the defensive pressure, focus, teamwork etc. of the Jazz was ramped way down while they played out the string. Still doesn't change the absolute need to get these kids out of the floor and embrace the future here.
There was no piksi game thread because AS PIKSI ANNOUNCED in an earlier thread, he's moving and won't have Internet access until next week some time.
You guys are going to have to fend for yourselves until then. Pretty much anyone could step up and start the thread.
HighFlyingMonkey
Starter
Interesting note of reference:
Utah Jazz – Starting Lineup
PG: Deron Williams: 24 years old
SG: Ronnie Brewer: 23 years old
SF: CJ Miles: 21 years old
PF: Paul Millsap: 23 years old
C: Mehmet Okur: 29 years old
Mean Age: 24 years old
Sacramento Kings – Starting Lineup
PG: Beno Udrih: 26 years old
SG: John Salmons: 29 years old
SF: Donte Greene: 20 years old
PF: Mikki Moore: 33 years old
C: Brad Miller: 32 years old
Mean Age: 28 years old
Replace Martin (25 years old) into the lineup for Donte Greene? Mean Age: 29
Now, which team is rebuilding and which one is a contender?
Utah Jazz – Starting Lineup
PG: Deron Williams: 24 years old
SG: Ronnie Brewer: 23 years old
SF: CJ Miles: 21 years old
PF: Paul Millsap: 23 years old
C: Mehmet Okur: 29 years old
Mean Age: 24 years old
Sacramento Kings – Starting Lineup
PG: Beno Udrih: 26 years old
SG: John Salmons: 29 years old
SF: Donte Greene: 20 years old
PF: Mikki Moore: 33 years old
C: Brad Miller: 32 years old
Mean Age: 28 years old
Replace Martin (25 years old) into the lineup for Donte Greene? Mean Age: 29
Now, which team is rebuilding and which one is a contender?
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GoGoGadget
All-Star
Finally watched a game this season. Weird turning on a Kings game and not recognizing anyone.
I am not a happy camper over this game. And I'm losing whatever patience I had with Reggie Theus. His post-game interview made it sound as though he and his staff were totally flummoxed over the change in the players in the second half and had no idea what happened.
I guess I'm just naive but I actually thought the coaching staff would have at least a glimmer of a clue. I hope Brickie includes a grade for Theus because I'll definitely have something to say about it:
PLAY THE FREAKING KIDS!!! And play them in a combination that at least makes a modicum of sense. I could have come up with better substitutions patterns than what I witnessed tonight. If we're gonna embrace this whole philosophy of rebuilding, we can't keep tiptoeing around the edges. Don't even use the word "try." COMMIT to the plan...or get ready to be in the unemployment line.
I guess I'm just naive but I actually thought the coaching staff would have at least a glimmer of a clue. I hope Brickie includes a grade for Theus because I'll definitely have something to say about it:
PLAY THE FREAKING KIDS!!! And play them in a combination that at least makes a modicum of sense. I could have come up with better substitutions patterns than what I witnessed tonight. If we're gonna embrace this whole philosophy of rebuilding, we can't keep tiptoeing around the edges. Don't even use the word "try." COMMIT to the plan...or get ready to be in the unemployment line.
Henkel
Starter
I couldn't agree with you more. I didn't mind the vets starting at the beginning of the the season but at this point the younger guys have earned their minutes and as we are going nowhere in the near future its time to see their roles expanded. Theus is losing the support of the fans and the ownership. It seems to me moving Moore to the bench could only improve his standing with both groups and hopefully pay off for all involved in the future.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Bottom line. Martin will be back soon and somebody or somebody's have got to go. It needs to be guys 29 and over that are eating up all the min. I am so eager to see nothing but the young guys play that I am willing to trade 3 guys for nothing. Thats bad and thats 20 mil worth of contract.....hmmmmm Marbury comes to mind when I say nothing lol.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Last year we were:
0-1 Oct
5-9 Nov
6-8 Dec
------------
11-18 by the new year.
This year it will be hard to be any better than 12-20 by the New Year. Upcoming schedule throuhg the end of December has precious few gimmes (3 total) and a whole bunch of should-be losses. The one big advantage is that most of it is at home.
7-7 Dallas (H)
11-6 Utah (H)
10-6 Denver (H)
12-1 Lakers (H)
12-1 Lakers (A)
7-8 New York (H)
4-10 Minnesota (H)
10-6 Portland (A)
10-6 Houston (A)
9-5 New Orleans (A)
9-6 San Antonio (A)
8-7 Toronto (H)
15-2 Boston (H)
2-13 LA Clippers (H)
Hard to construct many scenarios out of that list that leaves us wiht better than a 7-7 record and 12-20 overall by the new year, and that's about max. If we lose every game on that list against a superior opponent we go 3-11, end up 8-24 by New Years, and Reggie is fired.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Aenadin
Starter
that record from last year explains it... barring injury we could have done better but that is still no excuse.. im starting to lose patience with theus also 
but im still a kings fan thats what you can bet on every day...
well regarding with the age mean... yes the jazz are younger but the talent level and coaching level is different....
seriously the only position we have them beat is at the 2 with martin and salmons the rest of the positions its going to be a tough fight...
again in rebuilding age is a big factor... but the skill set and talent wise is paramount
if our starting line up for the future is
udrih 26
martin 25
greene 20
Thompson 21
Hawes 20
you now have an average of 22.4 in age...
the only ones who are raising our mean age are jackson moore salmons KT and brad
rebuilding can also not mean by age maybe we are rebuilding by stock piling on those fat contracts.. im guessing we will unload them soon enough
but im still a kings fan thats what you can bet on every day...well regarding with the age mean... yes the jazz are younger but the talent level and coaching level is different....
seriously the only position we have them beat is at the 2 with martin and salmons the rest of the positions its going to be a tough fight...
again in rebuilding age is a big factor... but the skill set and talent wise is paramount
if our starting line up for the future is
udrih 26
martin 25
greene 20
Thompson 21
Hawes 20
you now have an average of 22.4 in age...
the only ones who are raising our mean age are jackson moore salmons KT and brad
rebuilding can also not mean by age maybe we are rebuilding by stock piling on those fat contracts.. im guessing we will unload them soon enough
HighFlyingMonkey
Starter
Just a bad, bad game.
Two words - no leadership.
Is there a coach mutiny looming on the horizon? Is the team starting to tune him out? Is it me, or is Sheldon Williams sulking out there and just dragging his feet back and forth across the court with obvious lackadaisical effort? Would it be less obvious if he taped a "trade me!" sign on his jersey?
Wonder what Jason is thinking about while watching Mikki take his minutes for his on-court leadership and defensive abilities? Is Mikkie mentoring him? ("Ok, Jason, when you're guarding a red-hot 3 point shooting Okur, make sure to immediately leave him so you can ineffectively trail five feet behind a guard driving to the hoop. And - this is key - make sure you do this repeatedly, regardless of how many points he scores. This is called "help defense").
I think we should keep Quincy so that he can make us look good during garbage time, because that's the only time he's able and willing to shoot and make shots. The wider the margin of points, the proportionally better he gets.
Better stop now, otherwise I'll hate myself in the morning.
Two words - no leadership.
Is there a coach mutiny looming on the horizon? Is the team starting to tune him out? Is it me, or is Sheldon Williams sulking out there and just dragging his feet back and forth across the court with obvious lackadaisical effort? Would it be less obvious if he taped a "trade me!" sign on his jersey?
Wonder what Jason is thinking about while watching Mikki take his minutes for his on-court leadership and defensive abilities? Is Mikkie mentoring him? ("Ok, Jason, when you're guarding a red-hot 3 point shooting Okur, make sure to immediately leave him so you can ineffectively trail five feet behind a guard driving to the hoop. And - this is key - make sure you do this repeatedly, regardless of how many points he scores. This is called "help defense").
I think we should keep Quincy so that he can make us look good during garbage time, because that's the only time he's able and willing to shoot and make shots. The wider the margin of points, the proportionally better he gets.
Better stop now, otherwise I'll hate myself in the morning.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Wow. Two kings teams. First half then second half. The coach speaks and directs at half-time. But the rotation is a mystery if Kings are rebuilding. Are they rebuilding with Jello Hands Mikki? I don't think so.
The only way for Hawes and JT to learn how to defend with their feet and stop reaching so much is to get playing time and bench coaching. Put JT in there and if he gets 3 fouls in the 1st Q so be it. Sub late in first Q then put him back in 3-5 min into the 2nd Q. If he has 5 fouls at half time, so be it.
Show him game tape at half time and have some one in practice show him how to move to defend. Besides as a rookie he won't get marginal calls anyway. But hustling with his feet and staying in front of his man will get rewarded. So if he fouls out in the 3rd Q is he learning? Are the coaches coaching? We know he has the tools, abilities and moves but now needs coaching help.
Beno does throw a bit too many wild passes (2-3 a game) that turn into TOs. Work with him not to get into those situations. 1 or 2 max we can live with. He is learning but it takes time especially rebuilding.
John "Thumper" Salmons scores a lot but eats up a lot of clock doing so and makes it harder than necessary on the "kids" to keep moving when John has the ball. Again coaching. Why not install the 3 bounce rule? IF you dribble the ball 3 times you have to pass it. Not do that twice and you get replaced with someone who will. If the player or players are not moving to open up the offense, replace them with someone who will. Even if its Douby or Williams.
I sense a theme here in my own thread. Smell the same thing in quite a number of others now too.
What good is a big time trade if the coaching is not there?
The only way for Hawes and JT to learn how to defend with their feet and stop reaching so much is to get playing time and bench coaching. Put JT in there and if he gets 3 fouls in the 1st Q so be it. Sub late in first Q then put him back in 3-5 min into the 2nd Q. If he has 5 fouls at half time, so be it.
Show him game tape at half time and have some one in practice show him how to move to defend. Besides as a rookie he won't get marginal calls anyway. But hustling with his feet and staying in front of his man will get rewarded. So if he fouls out in the 3rd Q is he learning? Are the coaches coaching? We know he has the tools, abilities and moves but now needs coaching help.
Beno does throw a bit too many wild passes (2-3 a game) that turn into TOs. Work with him not to get into those situations. 1 or 2 max we can live with. He is learning but it takes time especially rebuilding.
John "Thumper" Salmons scores a lot but eats up a lot of clock doing so and makes it harder than necessary on the "kids" to keep moving when John has the ball. Again coaching. Why not install the 3 bounce rule? IF you dribble the ball 3 times you have to pass it. Not do that twice and you get replaced with someone who will. If the player or players are not moving to open up the offense, replace them with someone who will. Even if its Douby or Williams.
I sense a theme here in my own thread. Smell the same thing in quite a number of others now too.
What good is a big time trade if the coaching is not there?
Entity
Hall of Famer
that record from last year explains it... barring injury we could have done better but that is still no excuse.. im starting to lose patience with theus also
well regarding with the age mean... yes the jazz are younger but the talent level and coaching level is different....
seriously the only position we have them beat is at the 2 with martin and salmons the rest of the positions its going to be a tough fight...
again in rebuilding age is a big factor... but the skill set and talent wise is paramount
if our starting line up for the future is
udrih 26
martin 25
greene 20
Thompson 21
Hawes 20
you now have an average of 22.4 in age...
the only ones who are raising our mean age are jackson moore salmons KT and brad
rebuilding can also not mean by age maybe we are rebuilding by stock piling on those fat contracts.. im guessing we will unload them soon enough
If by unloading them you mean waiting until they becom Free Agents then yeah we will unload them.
captain bill
All-Star
I kinda doubt that. He inherited an awful team that was in shambles, has shown some improvement, and this year has lost his two best players from last year (Artest and Martin). A fall in record is to be expected, and in fact beneficial. This years draft could really make or break this team, with a potentially top-5 pick and a second first rounder, potentially more via trade. Theus gets at least one more year to show what he can do once the youngsters come into their own as the bona fide Kings starters. If I'm not mistaken, Hawes Thompson and Martin have yet to start a game together. This year is a throwaway in terms of record, and the front office knows it.
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