[Game] Kings @ Jazz - Sunday, Nov. 25 - 5:00 PT

This game was close to the Laker loss in disappointment.....the home floor blowouts are consternating, and ridiculous, really. The Warrior loss was palatable, but not this one Defense seems like a foreign word to this team sometimes. Rubio had an awful shooting game earlier, and the kings defenders mysteriously didn't take him seriously enough.

Too many allowed layups, and yet again getting outrebounded. Too much watching, guards need to help with rebounding.

On the positive its nice to see Giles semi-breakout offensively.
 
WCS just baffles the hell out of me. He's had some good games against Miami and Utah and the Thunder, and then he he's had absolutely worthless games like the last two.

My God, the guy won't even put his hand up on defense. How can Joerger possibly justify starting him if he's under the basket and a freaking guard shoots it over him for a layup with WCS not raising his hand, much less going for a block? If he's out on the floor thinking in the back of his mind that he can't put his hand up or swipe at a guy's shot because he might get hurt that is incredibly weak on his part, and it must affect his overall game. Sometimes he just looks like a mental patient out there.
Yes, his lack of defense is concerning - wonder if he's snakebit with worry for fouls. Anyway, no excuse.
 
Just totally selfish basketball and Fox/WCS got absolutely cooked by Rubio/Gobert, I know Bogie was making shots but man the guys shot selection this year despite makes/misses has been dreadful, Marvin literally every-time he touches it shoots I literally don't remember seeing him pass the ball that was down right terrible overall basketball for any guard to let Rubio drop 23 on them in a half you can't be serious.

Good to see Giles looking athletic and making sweet moves/plays
 
IMO the Kings left it all on the floor vs. the W's on Saturday night in that 1 point loss to the Champs. Give Rubio and the Jazz some credit, they are really good. This was a career game for Rubio as he normally does not see the hoop like that. I think Quin Snyder had his team prepared since he knew the Kings could not be that ready on a back to back with the Champs.

As Grant and Doug said in the broadcast, it was a learning experience for the Young Kings.
 
Last night's game is a prime example of why I no longer bet on sports. The Jazz were -3 against the Kings without Mitchell earlier in the day. That looked like a lock for the Kings, but they get blown out. It's the kind of game that makes you scream.

No energy. Night and day from the GSW game.

B2B games are a real thing, especially for young teams, who win based on energy and athleticism. The teams that do well are efficient, prioritize their bodies, and just have a high baseline--the Kings are not there yet.

It's why I think the Kings long term floor will hinge on Giles. Unlike Fox or Bags (who will ultimately dictate the Kings ceiling), he has the type of game that will show up every night. Smart, ball movement, skill--the bigs version of Bogie.

Speaking of Giles, really loving what we're seeing. The game is slowing down. The skill is flashing.
 
Not a fun game to watch. Rubio had one of those nights. Gobert brings it every night. Favors is pesky.

We got outrebounded as a team 49 to 36. Our defense was really weak at times. Willie and Jackson got beat pretty bad a lot of times.
Off the bench Giles gets 8 boards, Bagley 6, then Buddy 5, Bjelica 5 and Willie gets 4 again. A definite pattern. Willie better pick up his defense of he is going to be playing somewhere else. We gave up 133 points which is too many.

The Kings were flat from the start. I hope they look at this game carefully in the next few days. If you play fast, then games bunched together are even more challenging. We learned last night that the Kings are the worst foul shootin team in the NBA. They need to improve. They need to play defense better and rebound. It is a simple game really, it just takes a lot of hard work.

I must not be the only guy who missed Shumpert last night. Get KK out there if possible.
 
Just totally selfish basketball and Fox/WCS got absolutely cooked by Rubio/Gobert, I know Bogie was making shots but man the guys shot selection this year despite makes/misses has been dreadful, Marvin literally every-time he touches it shoots I literally don't remember seeing him pass the ball that was down right terrible overall basketball for any guard to let Rubio drop 23 on them in a half you can't be serious.

Good to see Giles looking athletic and making sweet moves/plays
I get what you’re saying, and the shot selection should improve with more experience, but with the pace they are trying to play there will be a lot of quick shots that fans will question if they don’t go down. That’s part of the beast when part of your strategy is to keep the flow moving fast.
 
At the same time, it's hard to argue that Willie was tangibly a positive tonight. While the Kings might have been better with Willie on the floor, I don't necessarily think it was because Willie was there. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

I do agree that of our three bigs tonight, Bagley may have struggled the most what with his rushed threes and getting bullied by the Jazz bigs all night.
That's all fair, but I'm not sure Willie hurts as much as those who are honing in on his weaknesses (and don't get me wrong, they are real weaknesses!) seem to think.

It's not only a one game sample, either. Assuming basketball-reference's stats are current, Willie's +/- per 100 possessions is easily tops among Kings playing meaningful minutes: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAC/2019.html
 
If the season trends continue it's a two man race between Doc and Joerger with Bud being a dark horse.
The only way Joerger gets COY is the Kings have to make the playoffs. I would Carlisle to that list as well. Mavs are hot now. If they surpass the Kings in the Standings, Carlisle is the fav. Carlisle is a better coach, regardless.
 
I think folks need to take rim protection more into account. It seems that some folks aren’t as keen on seeing it on the floor in game action

All of our bigs are struggling with it. It’s what rendered WCS a give/take player even at the height of offensive prowess. Both our young players Giles/Bagley struggle with it even as Bagley shows good individual work in the area and random plays. They are 19/20 rookies, and are showing glimpses in other facets and good energy. But the team BBIQ and presence/rebounding still isn’t up to snuff playing both. Bjelica’s intensity comes and goes though smarter in team BBIQ

The rim protection is rough
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
I think the Kings missed the grit of Shumpert in this game. I'm really becoming a fan of his. Yes, sometimes he tries to do too much on offense, but his defense and physicallity, as well as his outside shot have really helped the team. Also, it seems he's a very good veteran leader for this team. In the post-game they showed him really getting into guys on the bench (WCS in particular) and was obviously not ok with the lackadaisical effort. Bogs is a high BBIQ, good shooter. Shump is the in-your-face grit guy. The team needs both qualities, but I think defensive grit is the characteristic they need the most.
 
Bagley and Giles still need to put on weight but I think it'll work eventually.
I'm sorry but do you(I don't mean just you, anyone who actually thinks our starting bigs are Harry/Marvin) actually think this kings team, specifically Fox, Bogdan and Buddy deserve to have to sit around and wait for years for these guys to strengthen up? I think that'd be extremely poor management, after a streak of excellent management, so I just don't see that sort of face-plant happening here.

I'll bet my account vs nothing, if it doesn't happen I'll leave here forever, that this issue will be addressed in the summer, a bruiser who can run will be brought in. Bruisers can be had for DIRT CHEAP...

Z-bo and Koufos are expiring!!! Those roster spots aren't gonna be sacrificed to pagan gods their going to overturn them into bigs who can help us in need areas...

If I'm a jerk for calling out people( i dont mean u specifically, this sentiment seems to be widely spread here and it's silly/ based in fantasy imo) who want to put square pieces in round holes, so be it.

Harry Giles and Marvin are both ~6'9" without shoes, Harry measured 6'9¼" at the combine and Marvin's clearly shorter than him (and didn't show up to the combine, big part of that is obviously so he didnt have to get measured).. No one here can actually give legit proof, whether articles, past measurements OR Photographic evidence, I dare anyone to enter any photographic evidence they feel demonstrates that either one of these players is taller than I'm saying... I will debunk it for all to see..
 
I think folks need to take rim protection more into account. It seems that some folks aren’t as keen on seeing it on the floor in game action

All of our bigs are struggling with it. It’s what rendered WCS a give/take player even at the height of offensive prowess. Both our young players Giles/Bagley struggle with it even as Bagley shows good individual work in the area and random plays. They are 19/20 rookies, and are showing glimpses in other facets and good energy. But the team BBIQ and presence/rebounding still isn’t up to snuff playing both. Bjelica’s intensity comes and goes though smarter in team BBIQ

The rim protection is rough

Thats just this place. We have a small sample size of people here, its is not like the voice of the majority of kings fans...... All I really needed to see was how little respect Mo Bamba got around here as a potential draftee(after the atrocious rim-protection last season--- this is nothing new....) that to me spoke volumes about how people value rim protection here...

the funny thing is you see people blaming like Justin Jackson's defense, lets use him as an example. everyone loves to hold his feet to the fire so i'llplay devils advocate. His defense wouldn't look nearly as bad with legit rim-protection behind him.

y'all know what a trust fall is, thats what good rim protection is for you defense, thats what Gobert does for Utah, they know all they need to do is funnel their guy to rudy and he'll clean it up. Here' its more like once you get beat it's over and craps going poorly, part of the issue is Harry and Marvin are "jumping at ghosts" their eyes in the wrong places.At the NBA level this is not something where it's like oh these guys are young don't worry their gonna go from bad to excellent, it doesn't work like that. Harry and Marvin never played vs big guys like the ones in the NBA, their physical limitations are still being tested here (see Marvin getting stuffed by the rim trying to rush a reverse dunk last night)...

Skal would get slaughtered here for playing defense like these 2 but it's swept under the rug because of favoritism...
 
Last edited:
Fox and Buddy are second and third year players on a rebuilding team, I’d yet to say they “deserve” anything.
LOL I thought we were having an discussion about what goes on on the court. forgive me. They look like 2nd and 3rd year players to you ? They don't look like it to me..They look like NBA STARTERS.. Marvin and Harry most certainly look like some rookies on defense though...
 
and it's funny....they didn't close it out last night not due to inexperience, but because they couldn't rebound the ball on numerous occasions. go figure.
I thought FTs were number 1 priority for the season, and the they may still be, but rebounding seems to be the new thorn in the side....too much ball-watching. Cannot assume Giles, Cauley-Stein, Bagley, or Koufos is getting the rebound. Blocking out must be OVER-EMPHASIZED to crew. They need to be shown a rebound highlight reel from Dennis Rodman.
 
Furthermore on the rim protection Marvin's the only one above a block per game but look at this block vs Utah in the first contest.


0:59


He slaps it out of bounds for dramatic effect I guess? this is one of those blocks that's worth considerably less than a steal, no?


On points in the paint and FT's combined last night Utah scored 91 points.... Thats insane... Thats not winning basketball...

In the last game vs utah that # was just 64pts. their gameplan was clearly to punish us in the paint, and they pulled it off with relative ease.
 
They look like 2nd and 3rd year players to you ? They don't look like it to me.
Yeah actually they do, especially Fox. He looks like a really good second year player that is going to be a star but he still has a ways to go. The last two games are proof of that. Does he look like a guy that is in his prime or reached his peak? He's not even close.........and that's actually a good thing.

Fox and Buddy can definitely wait a year or two for Bagley and Giles to catch up.

Let's be realistic this team isn't going to be a real contender for 2 or 3 more years anyways.
 
If you give up 133 points, the way your offense operates is not important.
If you give a team 13 more possessions than you have by crummy rebounding you are going to struggle.
If you are the worst foul shooting team in the league, you will have trouble closing out games.

Fortunately the Kings are good at lots of other things, but they better start paying attention to the 3 weaknesses above.
 
You talk like the Clips are crap or average. They are one of the best teams in the NBA this year. No Joke.
It's obvious you haven't watched them at all this year.
Man, I love Harrell. Just a junkyard dog. Doc Rivers has done a fantastic job raising is level of play. Clips are very surprising. I know a lot of people don't like Rivers. But, I am a big fan. He keeps this up and he's COY.
WTF are you talking about? I responded to a post that Harrell has "size" and I just responded that he's about 6'8". The guy is a very physical and agile player having a MIP type year. He has a strong history of outplaying Willie. That's all I said.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
I'm sorry but do you(I don't mean just you, anyone who actually thinks our starting bigs are Harry/Marvin) actually think this kings team, specifically Fox, Bogdan and Buddy deserve to have to sit around and wait for years for these guys to strengthen up? I think that'd be extremely poor management, after a streak of excellent management, so I just don't see that sort of face-plant happening here.

I'll bet my account vs nothing, if it doesn't happen I'll leave here forever, that this issue will be addressed in the summer, a bruiser who can run will be brought in. Bruisers can be had for DIRT CHEAP...

Z-bo and Koufos are expiring!!! Those roster spots aren't gonna be sacrificed to pagan gods their going to overturn them into bigs who can help us in need areas...

If I'm a jerk for calling out people( i dont mean u specifically, this sentiment seems to be widely spread here and it's silly/ based in fantasy imo) who want to put square pieces in round holes, so be it.

Harry Giles and Marvin are both ~6'9" without shoes, Harry measured 6'9¼" at the combine and Marvin's clearly shorter than him (and didn't show up to the combine, big part of that is obviously so he didnt have to get measured).. No one here can actually give legit proof, whether articles, past measurements OR Photographic evidence, I dare anyone to enter any photographic evidence they feel demonstrates that either one of these players is taller than I'm saying... I will debunk it for all to see..
You and I both. Physical guys who can D up are going to be high on Divac's wish list. He needs at least two more physical athletes on this team who get after guys on the defensive end. It's possible we might see one or two of those guys coming in a trade before the trade deadline. If not, he's going to get them in FA.
 
You and I both. Physical guys who can D up are going to be high on Divac's wish list. He needs at least two more physical athletes on this team who get after guys on the defensive end. It's possible we might see one or two of those guys coming in a trade before the trade deadline. If not, he's going to get them in FA.
Depends on what you mean by a bruiser. A Ron-Ron type? Yes, absolutely. A Kosta Koufos type? I don't think we need that.

I see things a bit differently. I think we need a beast presence on the defensive perimeter. Preferably one that can stretch the floor (Klay obviously is the model). Or, I'll settle for one that can defend the perimeter, drive, and create fouls (Ron-Ron during his Kings years would be perfect as well).
 
The "Bjelica thing" is ridiculous. You'd have a better chance going to an astrologer and correlating the wins to Saturn in retrograde.

It's crazy of course but this is still about an 80% accuracy rate though. One thing I don't think is all that off is that the team has a much greater chance of winning when Bjelica is on the floor and contributing. I've gone through some thought process as to why that is and I think the biggest thing is his ability to create runs of offense. The Kings are the type of team that live and die by it and the only real true insane run players on the team are him, Buddy, and Bogdan. Fox has done it from time to time but because of their shooting those other 3 are more capable.
 
Harry Giles and Marvin are both ~6'9" without shoes, Harry measured 6'9¼" at the combine and Marvin's clearly shorter than him (and didn't show up to the combine, big part of that is obviously so he didnt have to get measured).. No one here can actually give legit proof, whether articles, past measurements OR Photographic evidence, I dare anyone to enter any photographic evidence they feel demonstrates that either one of these players is taller than I'm saying... I will debunk it for all to see..
So you're saying they measure the same as JJJ, Anthony Davis, DeMarcus Cousins, Myles Turner when they first came into the league...... Hmmmm. I'll take it.

BTW, it's well known that basketball players give their in shoe height anyways. It's not a lie or a secret. It's tradition.
 
We're just going to have to live with the ups and downs of the season. I want them to make the playoffs as much as anyone else does but some of the young guys just aren't capable of playing winning basketball right now. Marvin can come in and put up 15 and 10 and he can still contribute towards a loss while Bjelica can put up 8 and 5 and contribute towards the win. It's the difference in veterans and rookies. These guys don't know how to do all the things to help your team win games that don't show up in the box score.

Giles and Bagley are going to give us some nice highlights on the year but they hurt the team anytime they're out there. Giles' offense and shot selection need a ton of work and his fouls go toward free throws and And 1's compared to the fouls that Beli gets called on. It's just the learning experience of the game. Most rookies don't come in and play good defense. Couple the two young bigs with Mason and JJ and you don't have a winning bench. They seem to score a lot of points but they can't play defense worth a lick. I don't have much faith in Mason or JJ to ever become serviceable but Giles and Bagley are going to take a year or two before they can start contributing toward winning basketball.