[Game] Kings @ Jazz - Sunday, Nov. 25 - 5:00 PT

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Depends on what you mean by a bruiser. A Ron-Ron type? Yes, absolutely. A Kosta Koufos type? I don't think we need that.

I see things a bit differently. I think we need a beast presence on the defensive perimeter. Preferably one that can stretch the floor (Klay obviously is the model). Or, I'll settle for one that can defend the perimeter, drive, and create fouls (Ron-Ron during his Kings years would be perfect as well).
A couple of examples. I wanted Harrell in FA. This is an all out effort physical guy, not lengthy obviously (a 7'4" reach though), but active, athletic, physical and a competitor. Another guy that I like who is a 2nd stringer on Denver is Mason Plumlee. Every time I see him he is making a play. Both guys have a motor and both run the floor. Those are just two that come to mind as examples. Both of them would immediately help the Kings, imo. No doubt, there are more. Those are the "kind" of guys that the Kings really need.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Furthermore on the rim protection Marvin's the only one above a block per game but look at this block vs Utah in the first contest.


0:59


He slaps it out of bounds for dramatic effect I guess? this is one of those blocks that's worth considerably less than a steal, no?


On points in the paint and FT's combined last night Utah scored 91 points.... Thats insane... Thats not winning basketball...

In the last game vs utah that # was just 64pts. their gameplan was clearly to punish us in the paint, and they pulled it off with relative ease.
I've seen too many games where Bagley is the one King going up for a rebound and then he's surrounded by three or four of the opposing players. This happened several times in the Houston game. In those situations they didn't even try to rebound the ball; they'd just bat the ball to keep it out of Bagley's hands and then the nearest Rocket would pick it up.
I thought FTs were number 1 priority for the season, and the they may still be, but rebounding seems to be the new thorn in the side....too much ball-watching. Cannot assume Giles, Cauley-Stein, Bagley, or Koufos is getting the rebound. Blocking out must be OVER-EMPHASIZED to crew. They need to be shown a rebound highlight reel from Dennis Rodman.
They need to have Rodman come in and give them a class in rebounding. Seriously.
 
A couple of examples. I wanted Harrell in FA. This is an all out effort physical guy, not lengthy obviously (a 7'4" reach though), but active, athletic, physical and a competitor. Another guy that I like who is a 2nd stringer on Denver is Mason Plumlee. Every time I see him he is making a play. Both guys have a motor and both run the floor. Those are just two that come to mind as examples. Both of them would immediately help the Kings, imo. No doubt, there are more. Those are the "kind" of guys that the Kings really need.
I like Harrell. As for Plumlee, Giles and Bags already play like him, but are better. Having more of his type would help, but I don't know if it's as big a need as a perimeter defending beast.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
I like Harrell. As for Plumlee, Giles and Bags already play like him, but are better. Having more of his type would help, but I don't know if it's as big a need as a perimeter defending beast.
I think Giles is a different player than Plumlee. Plumlee is less skilled, more physical. Bagley is going to be better than anybody we're going to get in FA or trade, but we need *added* physicallity and Plumlee can do that.
 
Shumpert, Buddy, and Koufus are physical. Giles and Bagley are kids but can play with full grown men. They will become more physical. Williams is physical. Randolph was physical. Willie will never be. Fox is more physical than Willie is. Bjelica and Bogdan are more physical than people think. They are both tough guys actuallly.

Kings are transforming their own view of themselves more because of Shumpert than for any other reason. He is a street dude that every team needs. They look to him for leadership. I really like the guy. He brings out the toughness in the other players.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Bogdan is a nice player, but doesn't have the length or the athleticism that we need from the 3. Putting him at the 3 is a short term stopgap measure, not a long term solution. With big 3s he especially gets killed in the paint in rebounding and scoring and that's just not what we need right now.
 
Bogdan is a nice player, but doesn't have the length or the athleticism that we need from the 3. Putting him at the 3 is a short term stopgap measure, not a long term solution. With big 3s he especially gets killed in the paint in rebounding and scoring and that's just not what we need right now.
He certainly has the athleticism for it, which would be one of the main points. Unathletic for SG, but better suited athletically for SF

I guess I’ll need examples of him getting taken on D

It’s not necessarily about what’s perfect, but convenient. Both are starting quality (Hield/Bog) who may not want to come off the bench, who need to be playing 30+ as some of teams best players

Our best lineups statistically were with both together (SactownRoyalty ‘Wee three kings’)

But I suppose it’s opinion, we will see who is starting next game/long term
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
He certainly has the athleticism for it, which would be one of the main points. Unathletic for SG, but better suited athletically for SF

I guess I’ll need examples of him getting taken on D

It’s not necessarily about what’s perfect, but convenient. Both are starting quality (Hield/Bog) who may not want to come off the bench, who need to be playing 30+ as some of teams best players

Our best lineups statistically were with both together (SactownRoyalty ‘Wee three kings’)

But I suppose it’s opinion, we will see who is starting next game/long term
He really doesn't have the athleticism for the 3 long term. His quickness isn't great, his jumping ability is not great, his strength isn't above average, and when you have a shorter player at the position you need above average quickness, jumping ability and strength, not less. His rebounding was 2.9 per game last year, which supports the notion that the 3 isn't where he should be long term (As a comparison, Justin Jackson's rebounding average both this year and last year is 2.8). I've seen him get man-handled by 3s in the paint, especially in situations where they just jump right over him for the offensive rebound (not exactly what this team needs right now) . It's really a situation where his offense has to overcome his defensive deficiencies at the position in order for him to be a net plus. Is he better than Jackson at the 3? No doubt. But I do have doubts about him being better for the team than Shumpert at the 3, especially when the overiding need for this team is physicallity in the paint.
 
He really doesn't have the athleticism for the 3 long term. His quickness isn't great, his jumping ability is not great, his strength isn't above average, and when you have a shorter player at the position you need above average quickness, jumping ability and strength, not less. His rebounding was 2.9 per game last year, which supports the notion that the 3 isn't where he should be long term (As a comparison, Justin Jackson's rebounding average both this year and last year is 2.8). I've seen him get man-handled by 3s in the paint, especially in situations where they just jump right over him for the offensive rebound (not exactly what this team needs right now) . It's really a situation where his offense has to overcome his defensive deficiencies at the position in order for him to be a net plus. Is he better than Jackson at the 3? No doubt. But I do have doubts about him being better for the team than Shumpert at the 3, especially when the overiding need for this team is physicallity in the paint.
It takes more athleticism to play SG than SF in any way I define it, and the question is which of those two positions he should play. Your arguing about his quickness for SF so he can play SG?

It is a plus/minus thing. He isn’t ideal length for the position (although 7 foot wingspan). We know. But he’s a much better player than Shump, may not want to come off the bench long term, played well with Buddy last year statistically, so I’d like to see if it can work. Just for a stretch
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
It takes more athleticism to play SG than SF in any way I define it, and the question is which of those two positions he should play. Your arguing about his quickness for SF so he can play SG?

It is a plus/minus thing. He isn’t ideal length for the position (although 7 foot wingspan). We know. But he’s a much better player than Shump, may not want to come off the bench long term, played well with Buddy last year statistically, so I’d like to see if it can work. Just for a stretch
Yes, he can play SG. He doesn't have the athleticism to make up for his lack of length at SF. Understand?

He's not a much better player than Shumpert on the defensive end. Shump is a superior defensive player; Bogs a superior offensive player.
 
He really doesn't have the athleticism for the 3 long term. His quickness isn't great, his jumping ability is not great, his strength isn't above average, and when you have a shorter player at the position you need above average quickness, jumping ability and strength, not less. His rebounding was 2.9 per game last year, which supports the notion that the 3 isn't where he should be long term (As a comparison, Justin Jackson's rebounding average both this year and last year is 2.8). I've seen him get man-handled by 3s in the paint, especially in situations where they just jump right over him for the offensive rebound (not exactly what this team needs right now) . It's really a situation where his offense has to overcome his defensive deficiencies at the position in order for him to be a net plus. Is he better than Jackson at the 3? No doubt. But I do have doubts about him being better for the team than Shumpert at the 3, especially when the overiding need for this team is physicallity in the paint.
To me it seems the opposite. He seems to be able to guard bigger SFs better (did a great job on KD when he was guarding him in the game the other night), but has trouble with smaller faster 3s. As far as rebounding is concerned, he can get outjumped by 3s sometimes when he goes for the board, but he is mostly just boxing out when the shot goes up.... That said, he is a SG.

But to me it seems that we need a Center more than SF if we are going to trade WCS. I mean who is going to play center?
 
Yes, he can play SG. He doesn't have the athleticism to make up for his lack of length at SF. Understand?

He's not a much better player than Shumpert on the defensive end. Shump is a superior defensive player; Bogs a superior offensive player.
His athleticism (quickness) is fine for SF IMO, and a major reason for him to play more SF.

It’s true he’s not quick, which is why he’s better suited at SF on that attribute

Other attributes like length, he isn’t
 
Jazz just traded Burks and 2 2nd rd picks for Korver. What a stupid deal for the Jazz.
Yeah they literally traded the only other guy besides Mitchell who can create a shot for himself or others, they should have tried to move someone else I mean Korver will help space the floor but who is going to get him the ball or create a open look for him. Imo the Jazz should have tried to move Favors for another dynamic SF/SG.