[Game] Kings @ Hawks, 10/31/16 - 4:30 PM PDT

[KingsFan80]

Barnes is a huge pick-up and the team is playing harder, but it is very difficult to sit back and watch guy's like Mudiay improve to the point of scoring 16 points and 5 assists while WCS is just flat out bad. Marquis Chriss is a stud, would love to be watching these two in a Kings uniform.

 

[jcwkings]

Barnes is a huge pick-up and the team is playing harder, but it is very difficult to sit back and watch guy's like Mudiay improve to the point of scoring 16 points and 5 assists while WCS is just flat out bad. Marquis Chriss is a stud, would love to be watching these two in a Kings uniform.

I think Joerger could've turned Chriss into a stud. The kid has that fire and alpha dog mentality you can see. Still if Skal and Bogdanovic turn into good rotation guys down the line you can excuse it a little bit. Baldwin looks interesting defensively, I think Joerger would have liked to get his hands on him too.

 

[KingsFan80]

Joerger is a GREAT coach. We are lucky to have him. On the other hand, I have no faith in Vlade. There is no excuse for passing on Mudiay for WCS. You cannot take the risk on someone like Bogdanovic when you are trying to convince Cousins to stay. The Suns are dying to trade Brandon Knight, no idea how the great Vlade couldn't get that done if he was going to pass on Chriss.

 

[Blob]

Barnes is a huge pick-up and the team is playing harder, but it is very difficult to sit back and watch guy's like Mudiay improve to the point of scoring 16 points and 5 assists while WCS is just flat out bad. Marquis Chriss is a stud, would love to be watching these two in a Kings uniform.

Mudiay is shooting 32% after 36% last year. Ouch. I liked that kid before the draft, Myles Turner, and Justice Winslow, and would have taken any of them before Willie. The thing that was hard to gauge on Mudiay on pre-draft tape is that it turns out he doesn't have that burst of speed to beat his man, and that has hurt his play because though he has great size and nice handles, he's not creating space with quickness or first step to get clean looks.

I wanted almost anyone but Willie at #6 because despite 21 years old he would disappear too often at Kentucky, kind of like what he is doing now. His skills test and vitals at the Chicago combine were very impressive, and I thought okay maybe he will pan out, but something is missing. His development is lagging, and the team executives have to be concerned. Sophomore players are suppose to make a leap, at least they are suppose to if they plan on being stars.

 

[KingsFan80]

Mudiay is shooting 32% after 36% last year. Ouch. I liked that kid before the draft, Myles Turner, and Justice Winslow, and would have taken any of them before Willie. The thing was hard to gauge on Mudiay on pre-draft tape is that it turns out he doesn't have that burst of speed to beat his man, and that has hurt his play because though he has great size and nice handles, he's not creating space with quickness or first step to get clean looks.

I wanted almost anyone but Willie at #6 because despite 21 years old he would disappear too often at Kentucky, kind of like what he is doing now. His skills test and vitals at the Chicago combine were very impressive, and I thought okay maybe he will pan out, but something is missing. His development is lagging, and the team executives have to be concerned. Sophomore players are suppose to make a leap, at least they are suppose to if they plan on being stars.

Ok so we pass on Mudiay, fair enough but any of those guys you mentioned --Booker, Turner etc. I mean we literally picked the worst one. Ridiculous. and Chriss is going to be a stud.

 

[Blob]

Ok so we pass on Mudiay, fair enough but any of those guys you mentioned --Booker, Turner etc. I mean we literally picked the worst one. Ridiculous. and Chriss is going to be a stud.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. But I am not giving up on Willie yet. He needs to get stronger physically and mentally, and that has to translate into more aggressiveness and impact. What is disappointing to me is we heard over the summer "how easily" Willie added muscle and this would translate to more presence and power in the paint. Well, that hasn't happened at all.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Joerger is a GREAT coach. We are lucky to have him. On the other hand, I have no faith in Vlade. There is no excuse for passing on Mudiay for WCS. You cannot take the risk on someone like Bogdanovic when you are trying to convince Cousins to stay. The Suns are dying to trade Brandon Knight, no idea how the great Vlade couldn't get that done if he was going to pass on Chriss.

Knight is a negative player in terms of advanced stats and a tweener

Your right about Willie, but a little early on Chriss. I'm a big believer in Skal despite his preseason, and think he can ultimately compliment Cousins. So if he is ushered into the lineup now, which hopefully his active status forebodes, we can start to see him play

 

[kingjatt]

With the way willie has been pushed around out there If anything he seems even smaller and weaker than last year, he has literally added nothing to his game at all and badly lacks court awareness. He looked awesome with a guy like Rondo guiding him to easy buckets but without that he seems to be getting exposed. He's not super young like Ben was/is so I don't know how he can improve quick enough to help us this season. We needed Willie big time this year to step in as the reliable third big and starting with summer league he has disapointed.

If Willie is going to continue to get pushed around both on offense and defense then why not just try Skal, at least he provides a jumpshot that needs to be respected out of Joergers high post offense. Im sure he can get boxed out or miss bunnies just as well as Willie can.

 

[KingsFan80]

With the way willie has been pushed around out there If anything he seems even smaller and weaker than last year, he has literally added nothing to his game at all and badly lacks court awareness. He looked awesome with a guy like Rondo guiding him to easy buckets but without that he seems to be getting exposed. He's not super young like Ben was/is so I don't know how he can improve quick enough to help us this season. We needed Willie big time this year to step in as the reliable third big and starting with summer league he has disapointed.

If Willie is going to continue to get pushed around both on offense and defense then why not just try Skal, at least he provides a jumpshot that needs to be respected out of Joergers high post offense. Im sure he can get boxed out or miss bunnies just as well as Willie can.

Agree, I mean give someone else a chance. We just cannot afford to keep having these mistakes in the draft. Papa is terrible. We could use Chriss so much right now. I am watching this Clippers game, he is legit. This Board always knocks on PDA, which is fair, Ben Mac is a below average player, Stauskas was a bust, but then Vlade has dropped the ball twice, yet nobody says anything about him

 

[Livinthedream]

Chriss is not walking through that door any time soon. I'm not even sure his style fits with the Kings anymore than WCS does.

 

[Livinthedream]

If Willie is going to continue to get pushed around both on offense and defense then why not just try Skal, at least he provides a jumpshot that needs to be respected out of Joergers high post offense. Im sure he can get boxed out or miss bunnies just as well as Willie can.

Good point. Skal is a skilled big man and couldn't be any worse at this point.

 

[Tetsujin]

Barnes is a huge pick-up and the team is playing harder, but it is very difficult to sit back and watch guy's like Mudiay improve to the point of scoring 16 points and 5 assists while WCS is just flat out bad. Marquis Chriss is a stud, would love to be watching these two in a Kings uniform.

Are you Mudiay's mom or something? If you're going to go with dudes we passed on for WCS, he's not even the third guy on the list.

 

[Jimbob]

I have not seen any games this season so can only base my opinion on clips and boxscores.
As many have already said we are missing Collision in a big way. I am glad we have Ty and that hes getting burn but hes not making a compelling case for taking over the statting PG spot.
Im sure glad Ben is showing something because AA is consistant but not spectacular. I hope Bogdan brings a legit scoring threat next year to counter act guys like Korver going off on us.
I too want to see Skall get Willis minutes, why not we need production from our bigs outside of Cuz and this is to date the biggest dissapontment.

 

[alonshin]

Papa and Casspi are the two not dressed tonight....ouch for Casspi.

Casspi was sick, that's why he wasn't dressed.

But I really didn't like to see him in the Timberwolves game- not only the game itself, where he seemed to mostly be afraid of making mistakes and kept himself away from the ball. It's more than that- to me he seemed to be plain sad, depressed. Last year, even when he didn't play good, or didn't play a lot, he was clearly a part of the team. Engaged, jumping off the bench with good plays, eyes shining.

In the Timberwolves game he was out, away from the other players, not a single smile on his face the whole game, wasn't celebrating good plays by his teammates. And to me he just seem sad and disconnected.

Last year he was considered the heart of the team, and quite a good player as well, Cousins' closest teammate. So far it seems to me that he doesn't find his place in the team. Obviously he's less needed this year, but I still hope he will find his way to contribute and be part of the team, even if a small part.

 

[KingMilz]

While Matt Barnes has been beyond amazing I am worried that we are heavily reliant on him atm and that what he's done in terms of raw impact has been beyond anything that I certainly expected but to me it's only a matter of time before he returns to his mean average. The guy was unreal in the 2nd half today I thought Rudy played well and Cousins played with good effort despite a sub par offensive performance.

Afflalo and Tolliver just ain't doing enough for my taste would not mind seeing more of there minutes go to Ben/Omri (when healthy).

 

[andjel]

I bet you a hundred dollars that there's nobody reading this thread who's watched more Hawks games than me, the last five years. I am not underestimating them. They are a good team: they are a disciplined team, that plays good defense, and they don't often beat themselves... But, we had them tonight, and we let them off the hook, with poor play, particularly by the meal ticket. This was the rare game where most of the rest of the team showed up, and Cousins let them down.

I do not see us having them at any time. Brief lead in the third is not it.

The game was over when Cuz got 5th foul in third.
Luck kept us in the game (3-4 threes in a row), things averaged in the fourth.
Add that refs allowed much more contact in the forth after whistling like crazy for 3 quarters is a mess for a team in foul trouble.

 

[KingsFanGER]

While Matt Barnes has been beyond amazing I am worried that we are heavily reliant on him atm and that what he's done in terms of raw impact has been beyond anything that I certainly expected but to me it's only a matter of time before he returns to his mean average. The guy was unreal in the 2nd half today I thought Rudy played well and Cousins played with good effort despite a sub par offensive performance.

Afflalo and Tolliver just ain't doing enough for my taste would not mind seeing more of there minutes go to Ben/Omri (when healthy).

I have the same worries for Temple. We expect things out of these guys, that are not part of their usual role in the NBA. Barnes carrying the offense or throwing full court dimes is an indicator, that our roster simply lacks talent. Joerger expands the roles of these guys, because nobody else is capable of stepping up. I'm happy for Barnes and Temple and hope they can continue their level of play, but history tells us, that's not who they are as players. At least not on more talented teams.
Joerger did the same thing last year with Memphis and was able to grind out some wins. But as great as it is to cheer for those hard nosed, blue collar guys - it doesn't make our roster management more impressive.

Second game in a row, where Rudy's intensity really impressed me. I didn't believe he has that in him. Please keep it up!

 

[ESP47]

Mudiay is awful. WCS could score 15-20 a night as well if we let him chuck at 35% every game.

 

[Kingster]

To my mind, Barnes has been the co-MVP so far in the young season. But it's concerning that the co-MVP is 36 years old (turning 37 in March) and already has rib problems. I just wonder how he's going to do in the 2nd half of the season.

 

[Blob]

While Matt Barnes has been beyond amazing I am worried that we are heavily reliant on him atm and that what he's done in terms of raw impact has been beyond anything that I certainly expected but to me it's only a matter of time before he returns to his mean average. The guy was unreal in the 2nd half today I thought Rudy played well and Cousins played with good effort despite a sub par offensive performance.

Afflalo and Tolliver just ain't doing enough for my taste would not mind seeing more of there minutes go to Ben/Omri (when healthy).

Ben is playing 11 minutes less than Affalo (17.8 MPG < 29.3 MPG) and averaging 3 more points (10.3 PPG > 7.3 PPG) on 58% TS. Interestingly enough he has zero steals this season . But he has been playing solid defense not gambling and getting out of position. I think as he continues to build his confidence his MPG will increase, and he can eventually take over the starting spot. I would love to see him develop the floater in the lane and get fouled more. This is necessary to be a 15-20 PPG scorer from the SG position. Regardless those who wanted to ship Ben away for a second round draft pick or declared his days done as a King are looking a tad silly about now.

 

[dude12]

Whichever SG is in the starting lineup, their production will take a hit as they won't be able to get any consistent shots with Gay and Cousins on the floor. More opportunities with the second unit.

 

[twslam07]

Ben is playing 11 minutes less than Affalo (17.8 MPG < 29.3 MPG) and averaging 3 more points (10.3 PPG > 7.3 PPG) on 58% TS. Interestingly enough he has zero steals this season . But he has been playing solid defense not gambling and getting out of position. I think as he continues to build his confidence his MPG will increase, and he can eventually take over the starting spot. I would love to see him develop the floater in the lane and get fouled more. This is necessary to be a 15-20 PPG scorer from the SG position. Regardless those who wanted to ship Ben away for a second round draft pick or declared his days done as a King are looking a tad silly about now.

Ben has looked very strong offensively (20.8 points per 36 minutes!). He's hitting everything right now. Granted a bench role I think gives him the opportunity to take more shots (considering the rest of the bench has guys like Temple, Barnes, Tolliver, Cauley-Stein), but he's taking advantage of it, so give him props where props are due.

However, I don't agree about his defense thus far. He still needs some more work on this end of the floor. As of now he has the worst defensive rating on our team (115) and we give up 10.4 more points per 100 possessions when he is on the court vs. when he is off the court. Some of that might be skewed by the teammates he plays with, but I've been more impressed with both Afflalo & Temple on that side of the court, and the numbers seem to support that.

 

[VF21]

Cousins is definitely not my "go-to" scapegoat for any loss. It's very rare that I look at a loss, and think it's his fault. I don't really think that this loss was his fault. But I do think that we needed a bigger performance from him than we got. And, in the absence of putting up big numbers, I would have settled for him keeping his composure and staying in the game, rather than spending so much time on the bench, and forcing the defense to have to account for him.

I wasn't actually including you in my rant. You have never pulled any punches in your feelings about Cousins, but you also haven't always pointed at him first when things didn't go right. I was ranting more about those few fans who are still trying desperately to cling to reasons to diminish Cousins and his impact on the Kings.

 

[VF21]

Joerger is a GREAT coach. We are lucky to have him. On the other hand, I have no faith in Vlade. There is no excuse for passing on Mudiay for WCS. You cannot take the risk on someone like Bogdanovic when you are trying to convince Cousins to stay. The Suns are dying to trade Brandon Knight, no idea how the great Vlade couldn't get that done if he was going to pass on Chriss.

No faith in Vlade? I'm going to bookmark this for future reference.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

No faith in Vlade? I'm going to bookmark this for future reference.

You mean his "Vlade is dumb" relentless one-note samba hasn't already been burned into your brain?

 

[gunks]

I was excited when we drafted WCS. I would have been just as happy with Turner, Winslow, or Johnson.

Vlade drafted WCS for his skill set and physical tools which are awesome. He also ignored the red flags. WCS has definitely been garbage this season, but he can still turn it around.

Here's the thing. .... Vlade brought in an awesome coach. And signed awesome vets. He has a cohesive vision, and its one that works with our star.

Its one thing to bash Vlade's drafting (I'm not a fan of it either. Big Papa? Really?)...... But to say he's a bad GM because of bad picks is rediculous. He has vision, and guts, and is a leader.

Drafting may be his Achilles heel, but Vlade has also shown that he isn't too proud to admit when he is in over his head. Hopefully he gets some good talent scouts in here if WCS and papa bust (I still have high hopes for Skal).

 

[VF21]

You mean his "Vlade is dumb" relentless one-note samba hasn't already been burned into your brain?

I know, right? Almost like I had him on IGNORE or something.

 

[KingsFan80]

Are you Mudiay's mom or something? If you're going to go with dudes we passed on for WCS, he's not even the third guy on the list.

Ok fair enough but Lord vlade does no wrong, give him a lifetime contract!

 

[KingsFan80]

You mean his "Vlade is dumb" relentless one-note samba hasn't already been burned into your brain?

Yeah vlade is great. Great draft moves and free agent signings. He does no wrong. Let's blame and fire another coach. Sign him to a lifetime deal!!!!

 

[VF21]

Yeah vlade is great. Great draft moves and free agent signings. He does no wrong. Let's blame and fire another coach. Sign him to a lifetime deal!!!!

You haven't been around here very long (at least with this persona) so perhaps you're just not used to talking about the Kings with grown-ups. Your simplistic approach towards identifying what's wrong with the Kings may be all the rage where you come from but most of us around here (even the ones I disagree with the most) have the ability to recognize there is no simple reason for all the Kings woes.

You think George Karl was a great coach during his time here? That's beyond delusional.

You want to blame Vlade? Fine, but try and fine a way to do it with a bit more substance than simply using tired old refrains that simply take up space without really saying anything.