Kings extend offer to Chuck Hayes - 4 yr $20 mil
- Thread starter pupsingh
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PurpleHaze
All-Star
Seems lots of Houston Rockets fans at ClutchFans.net think it's all a done deal on both ends. Basically, they're calling it a trade that lands them Sammy Dalembert for Chuck Hayes. They seem ok with the "trade."
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I would be as well if I were them.
One note that has occurred to me though: Daly and Thornton are ours. Therefore we can go over the cap to resign them. So you can sign Hayes. Sign Thornton or Daly. And then sign the other guy taking you up over the cap limit using the Bird rights. Or at least you could under the old CBA. Pretty sure our guys still qualify under the new ones.
vikinginferno
Starter
They are also going to be paying twice as much as us though.
KingsCitizen
Starter
Chuck Hayes is good signing if he'll be bench big.
I don't mind Boogie as the full-time C on this team. He will still do a lot of damage offensively to most C's in the NBA. Maybe Petrie and Westphal sees a lot of good things on Hickson and this sort of signing is a green light that JJ will be starting at PF this season.
If only we can boost up our SF position with maybe Prince, AK47, or Smith. Then I wouldn't mind not getting Chandler or Dally. Kings went nuts with Divac at C, Bulls did it with Longley.
Just trying to be positive.
I don't mind Boogie as the full-time C on this team. He will still do a lot of damage offensively to most C's in the NBA. Maybe Petrie and Westphal sees a lot of good things on Hickson and this sort of signing is a green light that JJ will be starting at PF this season.
If only we can boost up our SF position with maybe Prince, AK47, or Smith. Then I wouldn't mind not getting Chandler or Dally. Kings went nuts with Divac at C, Bulls did it with Longley.
Just trying to be positive.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yeah...now wait a sec. Obvious point huh? Now thing is that under the new CBA they are actually instituting a mini-MLE for teams under the cap, but I understood that to be only $2.5mil. Random thoughts:
Now I also know that there was dickering around in the negotiations with when teams were going to be able to use the various versions of the MLE in this new CBA. Specifically they were trying to make sure taht teams using the full MLE wouldn't be able to go up into luxury tax land through it or for a year after they used it (they would have to use the new smaller $3mil luxury tax MLE instead).
What I don't recall is under the old CBA whether you could use the MLE if you started out below the cap, then spent money until you went up above the cap, then wanted to use the MLE as a capper. As I remember it, that wasn't possible. You had to start out over the cap to use it. If that is still true today, then you are absolutely right, this COUDLN'T be an MLE signing. Maybe just because it was for $5mil per it got reported as an MLE signing by other people not thinking too deeply themselves? Or maybe the rule changed under the new CBA so that you can spend your way up over the cap, and then cap it with the MLE. That would actually be promising as it would indicate we were planning on spending a lot of money here to reach the cap, and then planning on putting Hayes as a cherry on top.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yes, and getting a player twice as tall.
Seriosuly, shotblocker > shrimp, as basically the entire losing history of the Sacramento Kings has proven.
Note here, there have obviously been other factors, including Artest's presence at one point, and the Kevin infection being sent in, but this is what Houston looked like defensively as a team during the Yao years, and then during the Chcuk Hayes years as a "center":
Opponent Pts/Opp FG%
10-11: 103.7 (22nd) .468 (22nd) Hayes
09-10: 102.7 (21st) .475 (23rd) Hayes
08-09: 94.4 (6th) .444 (5th) Yao
07-08: 92.0 (4th) .433 (2nd) Yao
Now that is the same coach (Adelman). Otehr thigns going on, but a major lesson = big laneclogging shotblocker >>> hardworking midget.
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Kings Faithful
Starter
No, the idea is that Hickson might be a replacement for JT.
It confuses me how everyone wants to trade Thompson instead of Hickson. Thompson is the better player.
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KingsCitizen
Starter
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PurpleHaze
All-Star
Who are the bigs remaining on the Kings? Cousins (C/PF), Thompson (PF), Hickson (PF), Hayes (C/PF)
... and not to mention DL grad, Whiteside (C/PF), and still on the roster, D. Jackson (PF)
Seems to me Thompson remains a King unless another big (in addition to Hayes) is signed or Dalembert resigned.
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Larry David
Starter
A smart team locks up most of its cap in 3 good players and tries to add as much depth as possible with the remaining funds. Petrie loves to over pay borderline starters, and he’s done that for a very long time.
I’m pretty sure Petrie’s dream team is a roster where 12 guys make $5 million each.
The Kings have two stars in place. They should be looking to add the 3rd wheel. Instead, the roster is already cluttered with Salmons and Hayes. Why should Kings fan expect Petrie to change. He's great at finding talent, but not very good at deciding what to pay players.
I’m pretty sure Petrie’s dream team is a roster where 12 guys make $5 million each.
The Kings have two stars in place. They should be looking to add the 3rd wheel. Instead, the roster is already cluttered with Salmons and Hayes. Why should Kings fan expect Petrie to change. He's great at finding talent, but not very good at deciding what to pay players.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Hayes doesn't just defend his guy though. His versatility allows him to play the pick and roll which is the defensive scheme that Daly/Cousins struggled with the most. Teams would pick and roll them to death if they were the permanent front line. I'm still wanting to see Hassan play because he can be that Keon type IMO. He can even shoot the J a little, or at least he did at Marshall. If he can fill that role the Kings now have a guy in Hayes at PF that can shut down the other teams best scoring big, and Hassan to come in and turn those little buggers away left and right when teams are getting inside too often.
Still waiting to see what Petrie does with all this depth because some of it is going to go considering JT and Hickson are both free agents next season, Petrie rarely waits until the last minute when his rookies deals come up.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
God damnit I'm having a horrible afternoon/evening.
Drove to a park and went running. While running, for the first time ever(3000 miles+), my car key popped out of my pocket. Circled entire park, could not find it. Had to run about 8 miles home, in shorts, and it's freaking cold. Then found my spare key was all the way at my parents house, where I left it when loaning them the car a while back. Had to drive all the way their, 2.5 hr round trip. So I finally get there, and get my key, and turn around to come home.
Everything is behind me, think I'll listen to a little KHTK, and.........THEN I FOUND OUT we freaking offered Hayes 20M over 4 years! So I'm sitting in my car, getting more and more pissed, as I hear Napear comparing Hayes to Charles Barkley, and saying height doesn't matter.
Well, Barkely was never the foundation of anyones defense. He had HOF offensive talent. I see Napear is now a full time Maloof spokesperson. How can he defend this move?
Something else has to happen. Has to. Otherwise, Petrie is putting a nail in his coffin. Salmons was a bad move. But I gave Petrie the benefit of the doubt. Now this? If there isn't more, which we'll find out pretty damn soon, I will not be buying any Kings tickets this year, for the first time since 97. If we have Cousins/JT/Hickson/Hayes/Whiteside, and no true shotblocking center on opening night, meaning Daly has not been replaced by a HIGH quality defensive center, then I'm spending my money elsewhere.
Petrie better have some magic up his sleeve, because this sure as hell is not what we were promised.
Drove to a park and went running. While running, for the first time ever(3000 miles+), my car key popped out of my pocket. Circled entire park, could not find it. Had to run about 8 miles home, in shorts, and it's freaking cold. Then found my spare key was all the way at my parents house, where I left it when loaning them the car a while back. Had to drive all the way their, 2.5 hr round trip. So I finally get there, and get my key, and turn around to come home.
Everything is behind me, think I'll listen to a little KHTK, and.........THEN I FOUND OUT we freaking offered Hayes 20M over 4 years! So I'm sitting in my car, getting more and more pissed, as I hear Napear comparing Hayes to Charles Barkley, and saying height doesn't matter.
Well, Barkely was never the foundation of anyones defense. He had HOF offensive talent. I see Napear is now a full time Maloof spokesperson. How can he defend this move?
Something else has to happen. Has to. Otherwise, Petrie is putting a nail in his coffin. Salmons was a bad move. But I gave Petrie the benefit of the doubt. Now this? If there isn't more, which we'll find out pretty damn soon, I will not be buying any Kings tickets this year, for the first time since 97. If we have Cousins/JT/Hickson/Hayes/Whiteside, and no true shotblocking center on opening night, meaning Daly has not been replaced by a HIGH quality defensive center, then I'm spending my money elsewhere.
Petrie better have some magic up his sleeve, because this sure as hell is not what we were promised.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Probably not anymore. Hickson blew up at the end of last year and averaged 17-11 after the All Star break and may be juat emerging, while Thomspon appears tapped out as a solid but not special reserve type. Thing that bothers me a bit is that Thompson however is the better lockerroom guy, or has been. Bringing in Hyaes to replace Thompson therefore is a dubious upgrade on the court, and less of one in the lockerrom than if he were replacing a malcontent.
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
We got rid of that guy last year too(Landry)...now he's back(Hayes). Great...
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yes, and getting a player twice as tall.
Seriosuly, shotblocker > shrimp, as basically the entire losing history of the Sacramento Kings has proven.
Note here, there have obviously been other factors, including Artest's presence at one point, and the Kevin infection being sent in, but this is what Houston looked like defensively as a team during the Yao years, and then during the Chcuk Hayes years as a "center":
Opponent Pts/Opp FG%
10-11: 103.7 (22nd) .468 (22nd) Hayes
09-10: 102.7 (21st) .475 (23rd) Hayes
08-09: 94.4 (6th) .444 (5th) Yao
07-08: 92.0 (4th) .433 (2nd) Yao
Now that is the same coach (Adelman). Otehr thigns going on, but a major lesson = big laneclogging shotblocker >>> hardworking midget.
Can't underrate the JVG factor. Not only that but it's also an indicator of style change considering the Rockets averaged nearly 8 more points per game this year than in 08-09.
Here Hayes wouldn't be part of a super small frontcourt like he was in Houston. Cousins at 6'11" and Hayes at 6'6" isn't that small if Hayes isn't your C. Hayes really played PF defensively most games leaving Scola in there against the other guy.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
This move screams out treading water. I'm going to be really disappointed/annoyed/angry if they don't sign at least one player worth getting excited over.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Hahaha, don't worry, trust me, Hayes will be your favorite King! Just watch.
Barkley didn't even know how to spell defense let alone play it, hahaha.
Also, just remember how horrible this situation was pre Evans and Cousins. We were riding that Hawes/JT bandwagon! The talent is there and in abundance, Hayes is a guy that will know his role, lock up people, do the dirty work, and scrap. He and Cousins played together at some of those KU events this summer so maybe they even got some chemistry going. If you want to bail go for it, but me? I'll give it a chance because I know what the Kings are getting in Hayes, and I'm diggin' it! I also don't believe Petrie is done but if he was, I'm excited because I can't remember the last time the Kings had this kind of potential.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
No, just no. Am I the only one that's seen Hayes play? Landry is an iso scorer, Hayes is a defensive role player that can pass really well considering his offensive talent level. Hayes isn't just limited to dirty work, it's just a nice addition to his true value and strength, DEFENSE.
rhythmless
Starter
No one can justify throwing out this kind of money this early. Who are they bidding against? Why do we need him? What need does he fill?
Utterly ridiculous. Sacramento is a laughingstock for a reason.
But hey, anytime you get a 6'6" center with no offensive game and no potential, and the chance to throw 5 million a year at 4 years (in the new CBA no less), you just HAVE to do it.
I have some crap in the closet to sell to Petrie when he's done with this GM thing, which should be pretty soon. It's like hes trying to get fleeced. No one can do this poorly on accdient. Well, except Zeke.
Utterly ridiculous. Sacramento is a laughingstock for a reason.
But hey, anytime you get a 6'6" center with no offensive game and no potential, and the chance to throw 5 million a year at 4 years (in the new CBA no less), you just HAVE to do it.
I have some crap in the closet to sell to Petrie when he's done with this GM thing, which should be pretty soon. It's like hes trying to get fleeced. No one can do this poorly on accdient. Well, except Zeke.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
From day 1 I knew Petrie wasn't keen on Daly, but Thornton, he wants that guy back with a passion. Unless a team comes in with stupid money he'll be back.
Elektrik
Starter
His free throw looks as bad as Barkleys golf swing. Not surprisingly, his free throw shooting percentage is terrible. I remember when FT% was important to this team. Apparently not so much anymore.
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SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Thank you for that!!! Before anyone else comments watch that Dirk one. What a vid, super excellent job they did on that one. These are the players the Kings had problems with and now they have somebody that will at least put up a fight.
I love this signing!!
jcwkings
All-Star
I like this signing, Chuck Hayes has insane lower body strength and great footwork in the post, we have enough scorers and with Hickson, Thompson and Cousins we have plenty of size for rebounding. I hope we can sign Dally and trade Thompson to make Dally, Cousins, Hickson and Hayes our four man big man rotation. We need to add a veteran pg and free up a the sf glut and one big man. Cmon guys hes essentially a poor mans Dennis Rodman without the offcourt issues, and on the contrary all signs point to him being a class act off the court and in the locker room. We have enough young players, we need veterans who will keep the locker room and morale high. Also the post D of Cousins and our other big men can only improve with Hayes.
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