[KINGS] Comments that don't warrant their own thread (Redux)

Warhawk said:
It's not that everyone should think the way I do, it's that the trade has been discussed to death and the VAST majority (in retrospect) agree that it worked out for both teams. There really isn't an argument to say it hasn't given both team's improvements after the trade.

Generational talent? :rolleyes: You are getting WAY ahead of yourself there. He's very good, but you are throwing that term out with no data to back it up. Last year with Hali the Pacers won 43% of their games. This year they have the exact same record as the Kings. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, as they say.

Fox and Domas are also very good in their own right. You keep conveniently ignoring that for some reason. At this point I value Domas more than Hali for the Kings. You may disagree, but "Everyone should think the way I do and if not ignore it", right? Or does that only apply to me and not you?
Click to expand...
I'm not talking about the trade. I'm talking about the franchise letting talent go period. I don't care how good Sabonis is because he will never be a top 10 player and TH already is. I don't care. I don't care if they thought Bagley would have been the Stoudamire to our Nash/Fox. I care that LD is this generation's Larry Bird and a top 5 talent in the entire league. This isn't about nitpicking who won a trade and more about the problem of talent that is elite not staying here and you thinking it's ok because the talent we have currently is very good.
 
Showtime said:
I'm not talking about the trade. I'm talking about the franchise letting talent go period. I don't care how good Sabonis is because he will never be a top 10 player and TH already is. I don't care. I don't care if they thought Bagley would have been the Stoudamire to our Nash/Fox. I care that LD is this generation's Larry Bird and a top 5 talent in the entire league. This isn't about nitpicking who won a trade and more about the problem of talent that is elite not staying here and you thinking it's ok because the talent we have currently is very good.
Click to expand...
Well, we'll just agree to disagree then. I think roster construction can be more important than any individual piece. Obviously you disagree. You have a much higher opinion of some players than I or some others do. And that's fine. But that doesn't mean you are right. Doesn't mean I am. But I think the combination of player talent and roster construction can be more important than any one individual player talent. Otherwise, the 2012-2013 Lakers should have won it all. Or the 2021-2022 Nets. We'll just let it go at that.
 
megapoxy said:
Is there a certain thread about stats? I couldn't find one... so from the "Sacktown Giraffe" on twitter (or X) @TimMaxwell22 there are some stats regarding clutch time this season.

De’Aaron Fox in the clutch this season: 0/13 3P 19/47 FG (39%) 12/20 FT (60%)

Malik Monk, De’Aaron Fox, and Harrison Barnes have combined to shoot 6 of 37 (16%) from three-point range in the clutch this season.

Domantas Sabonis is shooting 71% from the field in clutch situations, but he has only attempted 17 field goals, compared to 48 for Fox and 34 for Monk. The Kings seem to completely forget about Sabonis in tight game situations.

Usage rates in regular season vs clutch Fox: 30.7% | 38.2% Monk: 23.8% | 26.2% Sabonis 22.3% | 15.8% Murray 18.7% | 12.1% Huerter 17.5% | 15.7% Barnes 13.3% | 9.9% Every rotational player but Monk and Fox sees their usage decline.

From 16 matches this season that the final score margin was less than 10 points, Sacramento won 11 of those, losing only 5 (among them the last 2... painful ones). So it doesn't make so much sense that Kings are usually effective winning close matches but having not so great efficiency by their star "clutch" player.
Click to expand...

The whole article can be read here -> https://kingsherald.com/articles/sacramento-kings-phoenix-suns-collaps-clutch-time-stats/ that has other stats as well in the text

"Clutch" related a few hours ago that Atlanta won their match with Murray's buzzer beater, that was the 5th buzzer beater winner for them ranking them second in the past 5 years in the NBA. Kings are in the first place with 6 buzzer beaters. I am trying to recall all of them, Fox hit two of them last season (at Bulls and Magic), Metu against Dallas, Buddy at Denver and Barnes vs Cleveland and at Phoenix (he couldn't do the same yesterday though, making the pass out of bounds this time). We had several the years before as well not all "winner buzzer beaters" (some went into OT) with Fox in his rookie year (two times against Miami, once vs Nets, once vs Sixers), Bogi vs Lakers, Bjelica at Houston, Buddy at Detroit and perhaps others I may have forgotten.
Apart from the tip in of Buddy (that was and the only non 3 pointer from all those 6) in Denver, all the other non Fox buzzer beaters were assisted by Fox himself, and even in Denver the tip in happened after Barnes missed the dunk from what would have been another Fox assist as well.
 
Tyrese went down, and Pacers still beat Celtics. Then they dealt with Wizards and handily defeated Hawks in away game. Yes, they lost in Denver - who wouldn't? And it was a tight game. Jazz blew them away but they are the hottest team since mid-December and it was 3rd game in 4 nights, all away with a lot of movement, including up and down.
Indiana has a lot of talent so people should really stop with TH is top10 player.
 
Gilles said:
Tyrese went down, and Pacers still beat Celtics. Then they dealt with Wizards and handily defeated Hawks in away game. Yes, they lost in Denver - who wouldn't? And it was a tight game. Jazz blew them away but they are the hottest team since mid-December and it was 3rd game in 4 nights, all away with a lot of movement, including up and down.
Indiana has a lot of talent so people should really stop with TH is top10 player.
Click to expand...
Look at his se
Tetsujin said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1748501553936474280
Click to expand...
They are getting blown out way more. Look at the point difference. Look at the drop in FT shooting. Record is assuming everything else is equal but this team is going from the #1 offense to mediocre offense and poor defense and taking steps backward despite the same record.
 
Showtime said:
Look at his se
They are getting blown out way more. Look at the point difference. Look at the drop in FT shooting. Record is assuming everything else is equal but this team is going from the #1 offense to mediocre offense and poor defense and taking steps backward despite the same record.
Click to expand...

last year they had a draft pick and lots of cap space to use. This year we will likely lose our pick and we have only the mid-level exemption.
 
Showtime said:
Look at his se
They are getting blown out way more. Look at the point difference. Look at the drop in FT shooting. Record is assuming everything else is equal but this team is going from the #1 offense to mediocre offense and poor defense and taking steps backward despite the same record.
Click to expand...

They're not really mediocre on offense though, it's just that a lot of other teams have gotten significantly better while we stayed pretty much the same. Meanwhile the team has taken a big leap forward from 27th in the league in Defensive Rating to 17th. That's not nothing and obviously there's still a lot of room left for improvement.

The only frustrating thing about this season for me (relative to last season) is that we're so close to having a really good team but can't quite put all the pieces together yet. Big-picture wise, when you look at the level of play we're getting from Fox, Sabonis, and Murray there's really nothing to be mad about. These guys have all found another level above what they did last season and that's really the best indicator of the health of the franchise. It's the roster around them that needs some restructuring. It certainly doesn't help that none of the moves Monte made in the off-season (re-signing Barnes, re-signing Lyles, signing Vezenkov, trading for Duarte) have made the team better through the first 41 games of the season.
 
sactowndog said:
last year they had a draft pick and lots of cap space to use. This year we will likely lose our pick and we have only the mid-level exemption.
Click to expand...

Who would you have signed with the cap space though? Draymond wanted to stay in Golden state, Grant wanted 5 years only the Blazers could give him, Kuzma wanted to be option 1 or 2. The only other forward would be Brooks. He has had a pretty good season but he was a big risk. A team who has put up with Ja Morant wanted to replace him. He’s also the third option on the Rockets, not interested in being a 3 and D guy ( he has said this himself).

if the kings don’t make a move at the deadline it’s fine imo. That pick likely will convey and then we have 26’ 28’ 30 and swaps free and clear to trade if we find what we want. There is a good chance that many of the forwards I mentioned earlier will be available this off season.

Monte has to be smart here. If a move is made this deadline it has to be the right one. 16 years of stink have been removed from our franchise, no reason to start panicking if we take a step back this year. He has said this himself, things are not always linear.

Go Kings!
 
iowamcnabb said:
Who would you have signed with the cap space though? Draymond wanted to stay in Golden state, Grant wanted 5 years only the Blazers could give him, Kuzma wanted to be option 1 or 2. The only other forward would be Brooks. He has had a pretty good season but he was a big risk. A team who has put up with Ja Morant wanted to replace him. He’s also the third option on the Rockets, not interested in being a 3 and D guy ( he has said this himself).

if the kings don’t make a move at the deadline it’s fine imo. That pick likely will convey and then we have 26’ 28’ 30 and swaps free and clear to trade if we find what we want. There is a good chance that many of the forwards I mentioned earlier will be available this off season.

Monte has to be smart here. If a move is made this deadline it has to be the right one. 16 years of stink have been removed from our franchise, no reason to start panicking if we take a step back this year. He has said this himself, things are not always linear.

Go Kings!
Click to expand...

I probably would have tried to move up in the draft and grab Cam Whitmore who was falling. Lots of good small forwards in the last draft.
 
iowamcnabb said:
Who would you have signed with the cap space though? Draymond wanted to stay in Golden state, Grant wanted 5 years only the Blazers could give him, Kuzma wanted to be option 1 or 2. The only other forward would be Brooks. He has had a pretty good season but he was a big risk. A team who has put up with Ja Morant wanted to replace him. He’s also the third option on the Rockets, not interested in being a 3 and D guy ( he has said this himself).

if the kings don’t make a move at the deadline it’s fine imo. That pick likely will convey and then we have 26’ 28’ 30 and swaps free and clear to trade if we find what we want. There is a good chance that many of the forwards I mentioned earlier will be available this off season.

Monte has to be smart here. If a move is made this deadline it has to be the right one. 16 years of stink have been removed from our franchise, no reason to start panicking if we take a step back this year. He has said this himself, things are not always linear.

Go Kings!
Click to expand...

And the ability to add talent doesn't last forever. Monte clearly knows this. His timeline was jumped forward about 4 years ahead of schedule when he picked Fox. The summer was what it was, he clearly tried to clear space for Beal but Beal chose the Suns. Monte just has to keep being aggressive. Being picky with where his team is at might not be an option unfortunately.
 
SacTownKid said:
And the ability to add talent doesn't last forever. Monte clearly knows this. His timeline was jumped forward about 4 years ahead of schedule when he picked Fox. The summer was what it was, he clearly tried to clear space for Beal but Beal chose the Suns. Monte just has to keep being aggressive. Being picky with where his team is at might not be an option unfortunately.
Click to expand...

I just don’t see it that way. Fox is 26. Domas has 4-7 years of prime left. We are not working with a two year window here. He has time to build around this core for several years before pivoting off it if needed.

At this point I don’t really expect a major trade. The Lavine thing was at least worth thinking about if it could be done without first round picks but it appears that is dead. He’s also injured again which is a concern. Don’t get what Portland is doing but it appears they are likely holding on to Grant. As I said in my response to ‘Dog, a lot of these guys might be available for trade in the off season and who knows who else pops up. Another bonus, maybe Huerter continues his strong play and either cements his spot on this team or increases his value. The version of KVon we got in the last couple days is worth a solid first rounder. 2 weeks ago it felt we were in sell super low territory. Barnes will be on a really nice 2 year deal that’s easy to move.
 
iowamcnabb said:
I just don’t see it that way. Fox is 26. Domas has 4-7 years of prime left. We are not working with a two year window here. He has time to build around this core for several years before pivoting off it if needed.

At this point I don’t really expect a major trade. The Lavine thing was at least worth thinking about if it could be done without first round picks but it appears that is dead. He’s also injured again which is a concern. Don’t get what Portland is doing but it appears they are likely holding on to Grant. As I said in my response to ‘Dog, a lot of these guys might be available for trade in the off season and who knows who else pops up. Another bonus, maybe Huerter continues his strong play and either cements his spot on this team or increases his value. The version of KVon we got in the last couple days is worth a solid first rounder. 2 weeks ago it felt we were in sell super low territory. Barnes will be on a really nice 2 year deal that’s easy to move.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about age, I'm talking about the ability to add serious talent without stripping core pieces to do it due to lack of availability or cap restrictions. The Kings went through it with Petrie. It just happens at a certain point. If there is no trade available it is what it is but best bet Monte needs to be looking under every rock he can and with Monte, just like Petrie in the mid-2000's he has to probably look at damaged goods. Petrie would never have been able to add a talent like Artest at the time he did unless it was at the dented and damaged sale like he found him. Monte is going to probably have to look for the same risk/reward type of deal.
 
SacTownKid said:
I'm not talking about age, I'm talking about the ability to add serious talent without stripping core pieces to do it due to lack of availability or cap restrictions. The Kings went through it with Petrie. It just happens at a certain point. If there is no trade available it is what it is but best bet Monte needs to be looking under every rock he can and with Monte, just like Petrie in the mid-2000's he has to probably look at damaged goods. Petrie would never have been able to add a talent like Artest at the time he did unless it was at the dented and damaged sale like he found him. Monte is going to probably have to look for the same risk/reward type of deal.
Click to expand...

Miles Bridges?
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
Miles Bridges?
Click to expand...

The Kings probably don't have to look at that sort of player quite yet. Bridges is going to be a free agent and he might be looking at a MLE type deal this summer anyway. I don't think the Kings need to add a negative image player but players seeing decreases in value is clearly mandatory if they are looking at upgrades. The only one with an all star background left is LaVine now that Beal is gone. Players like Grant, Bojan, and almost any other name mentioned are going to take assets to get and Monte doesn't have a bunch of those with Davion fading the last season or so. That was the one young trade asset and they'd probably be lucky to get the contract of the books at this point.
 
SacTownKid said:
I'm not talking about age, I'm talking about the ability to add serious talent without stripping core pieces to do it due to lack of availability or cap restrictions. The Kings went through it with Petrie. It just happens at a certain point. If there is no trade available it is what it is but best bet Monte needs to be looking under every rock he can and with Monte, just like Petrie in the mid-2000's he has to probably look at damaged goods. Petrie would never have been able to add a talent like Artest at the time he did unless it was at the dented and damaged sale like he found him. Monte is going to probably have to look for the same risk/reward type of deal.
Click to expand...

the problem with this crop of damaged players is they are on max deals (Lavine Beal) if our pick conveys, we have 3 first round picks to trade, that landed the Bucks Jrue Holiday. Monte could have a swing like that at his disposal potentially. Maybe he swings for Marcus Smart or that type of guy and then uses the mid level we will likely have this summer to find our version of Dean Wade or A Deanthony melton. In my opinion he has options
 
SacTownKid said:
I'm not talking about age, I'm talking about the ability to add serious talent without stripping core pieces to do it due to lack of availability or cap restrictions. The Kings went through it with Petrie. It just happens at a certain point. If there is no trade available it is what it is but best bet Monte needs to be looking under every rock he can and with Monte, just like Petrie in the mid-2000's he has to probably look at damaged goods. Petrie would never have been able to add a talent like Artest at the time he did unless it was at the dented and damaged sale like he found him. Monte is going to probably have to look for the same risk/reward type of deal.
Click to expand...
I think the biggest risk/reward guys that also fit our team somewhat (meaning I’m not going to put someone like Ben Simmons on this list) are:
  • Andrew Wiggins
  • John Collins
  • Jonathan Isaac
  • Lonzo Ball
  • Miles Bridges
  • Zach LaVine

I don’t think any of those guys cost us assets/1sts but you have to ask yourself…is the risk worth it for any of those guys? Just because that’s the list of the available risk/reward players today, it doesn’t mean we have to make that type of move today.
 
iowamcnabb said:
the problem with this crop of damaged players is they are on max deals (Lavine Beal) if our pick conveys, we have 3 first round picks to trade, that landed the Bucks Jrue Holiday. Monte could have a swing like that at his disposal potentially. Maybe he swings for Marcus Smart or that type of guy and then uses the mid level we will likely have this summer to find our version of Dean Wade or A Deanthony melton. In my opinion he has options
Click to expand...

Them being on max deals is part of the damage though which in terms of acquisition is much better for a team like Sacramento considering there isn't a reduction in actual ability. I guess the question is whether or not the Kings are a few role players away from competing for a ring and what those mean in terms of value trade wise. I still think adding as much talent at your top end and then filling out needs with things like your MLE, draft picks, or trades is typically more realistic. Lets put it this way, look at Keon Ellis, you can find guys like that in the 2nd round or even the G-league. Those are much better to have as your finishing touch pieces than finding another all star.
 
SacTownKid said:
Them being on max deals is part of the damage though which in terms of acquisition is much better for a team like Sacramento considering there isn't a reduction in actual ability. I guess the question is whether or not the Kings are a few role players away from competing for a ring and what those mean in terms of value trade wise. I still think adding as much talent at your top end and then filling out needs with things like your MLE, draft picks, or trades is typically more realistic. Let’s put it this way, look at Keon Ellis, you can find guys like that in the 2nd round or even the G-league. Those are much better to have as your finishing touch pieces than finding another all star.
Click to expand...

Monte has to decide if adding a 40 mill dollar guy that plays one side of the ball is the best decision. Would the Suns be better with Beal or 2 twenty million dollar wings? I don’t have the answer but imo the time to do a deal has likely sailed. My best guess is they stand pat or do a fairly minor deal. If something goes down, I’ll trust that Monte saw it as the right time or value
 
twslam07 said:
I think the biggest risk/reward guys that also fit our team somewhat (meaning I’m not going to put someone like Ben Simmons on this list) are:
  • Andrew Wiggins
  • John Collins
  • Jonathan Isaac
  • Lonzo Ball
  • Miles Bridges
  • Zach LaVine

I don’t think any of those guys cost us assets/1sts but you have to ask yourself…is the risk worth it for any of those guys? Just because that’s the list of the available risk/reward players today, it doesn’t mean we have to make that type of move today.
Click to expand...

The thing is though with LaVine in particular, he's kind of the last on a list of players kind of dangling out there for awhile. First it was Beal. Gone. Then OG. Gone. Then Siakam. Gone. We'll have to see what teams do up to the deadline but the options of potentially cheaper star level players is dwindling and sometimes those real options don't come around for awhile again. At least not on the cheap. I mean, that's assuming players like the ones you mentioned have truly low value that is. To two least damaged goods, at least physically, on that list are Wiggins and LaVine. Collins I'm not sure what's going to happen there, the Jazz have been on a run and are yet another team right in the Kings rear view. With Wiggins I just don't see the Warriors dealing with the Kings. I mean, do they really think Huerter and Barnes are going to take them from the outhouse to the penthouse? I would doubt it.
 
iowamcnabb said:
Monte has to decide if adding a 40 mill dollar guy that plays one side of the ball is the best decision. Would the Suns be better with Beal or 2 twenty million dollar wings? I don’t have the answer but imo the time to do a deal has likely sailed. My best guess is they stand pat or do a fairly minor deal. If something goes down, I’ll trust that Monte saw it as the right time or value
Click to expand...

And see I think Monte has to realize that with his assets Monte isn't getting a player of that talent level that plays both sides. It's not going to happen. So what does he do, sit? Or take BPA? His draft strategy certainly might give us an idea. Monte didn't build a team of defense first basketball in terms of personnel, he just didn't. It starts with Domas and Fox. No rim protection and a tired star who is probably wearing down from playing both ends TBH. The good thing is they can do some things on defense and so can LaVine honestly. Now if there is a move to be made that can bring some semi-productive wings then great, but again, it's a question of limited assets. Defensive wings aren't untouchable, but defensive wings that can produce a little and not be a negative offensively are hard to come by. Most teams develop those players and it always seems that teams who pay big money to those guys end up regretting it. Not because the player "sucks" but because it turns out that team wasn't that one player away. Ask Dallas right now for example. Have a talent core of Fox, Domas, (all star), and Keegan and looking at Okpala/Harkless types might be all you need.

Now obviously at the very least yeah, Monte has to at least try to find some defense ASAP. But it's a give and take as we saw the lack of impact inserting Duarte over Huerter brought to the team. The Kings don't have a real defensive system and have had to increasingly rely on Fox more and more as teams have now scouted the Kings offensive system. The Kings ratings so far this season have been mediocre and in 7th they currently sit. The defense has jumped, but the offense has cratered.

As for Beal, it's the same thing. What 2 20 million dollar wings were there to be had? The thing about the team the Suns built is next to all that scoring talent in their big 3, all they might need is a few minimum top notch level defenders like Josh Okogie to pull off the dirty work. I'm sure lucky them will get some ring chasers this summer if they pan out. yay! lol.
 
Not so much Kings related thread but... 2 former Sacramento Kings players have become teammates here in Indonesia, playing for Pelita Jaya, and their departure makes the team to be called "super team" by the local media. Malachi Richardson and Thomas Robinson want to be something like "Fox and Monk" wearing the same shirt numbers as well (5 and 0) but despite the low level of competition they haven't been that impressive in those 2 matches that have been played so far. The team even brought a 3rd former NBAer (KJ McDaniels) in case anyone cares but he is not that good either.
T-Rob as they call him here, was the #5 pick selection in 2012's draft and was supposed to be the dark horse for rookie of the year according to several NBA analysts. That didn't happen and he won't even be the MVP in the IBL (Indonesian Basketball League) either. The 6th selection in that draft was Lillard btw and there were more famous name picked later like HB (#7), Drummond (#9) and even some famous in second round (Middleton, Draymond).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Mr. S£im Citrus
[NBA] Comments that don't warrant a thread (APR)
3 4 5
Replies
137
Views
5K
Warhawk
Warhawk
Tetsujin
  • Locked
[NBA] Comments that don't warrant a thread (JAN)
8 9 10
Replies
278
Views
11K
Tetsujin
Tetsujin
Mr. S£im Citrus
  • Locked
[NBA] Comments that don't warrant a thread (MAR)
2 3
Replies
81
Views
4K
Capt. Factorial
Capt. Factorial
Mr. S£im Citrus
  • Locked
[NBA] Comments that don't warrant a thread (DEC)
6 7 8
Replies
210
Views
8K
pdxKingsFan
pdxKingsFan
Tetsujin
The Foxes pay Deuce and Mo a literal visit
Replies
19
Views
2K
Pimpis Zajoba
Pimpis Zajoba