[KINGS] Comments about the Kings that don't warrant their own thread

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SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#211
#211
KingsFanSince85 said:
See, that’s the thing. You continue to cherry pick. The ‘obvious choices’ factor into his draft history too. And IMO you’re wrong to call them ‘obvious’. Because you’re doing it through hindsight.

At the time Swipa was drafted, there were a lot of arm chair fans on this site that didn’t agree with it. Same with the Bagley pick. So it’s not fair to label those as obvious.

Other than Papa G and Skal, what other 1st rounder didn’t become at least a solid rotational player or starter? WCS was a starter. JJ was a rotational player before being moved for Barnes and Giles is on the rise. He’s really only missed badly on one 1st rounder but made up for it by acquiring Bogdanovic, something you’re not giving credit for.

Labeling his draft’s as failures over 2nd round picks is just flat ridiculous. You’re not being realistic or fair.
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No, I'm saying that in terms of many of the top 100 lists they were wrong at the time. As in, here is consensus BPA type and here's what Vlade did. BPA lists aren't gospel but the fact is there is always going to be one even with GM's. WCS was a top 6 pick that just signed a minimum deal. He's a solid player and that was a bad draft overall but you can't cite that as a victory at all for the Kings. How is he helping the Kings now? JJ was a rotational player that fizzled out rather quick, he still has some upside but again, this is why fit matters. The Kings had clear needs with physicality and JJ didn't fit those. Giles was a drop gamble. Those are the types of picks that can net you something. Again, you bring up Bogdan, this is about draft scouting and relative draft positioning, NOT trades. And it's not even about who he took but like that article posted after the draft, it's the manner in which you gain them and how they fit. The players he took are solid but he still possibly could have had them and some of these BPA types that look like promising prospects.
 
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K

Kangztillidie

Bench
#212
#212
SacTownKid said:
No, I'm saying that in terms of many of the top 100 lists they were wrong at the time. As in, here is consensus BPA type and here's what Vlade did. BPA lists aren't gospel but the fact is there is always going to be one even with GM's. WCS was a top 6 pick that just signed a minimum deal. He's a solid player and that was a bad draft overall but you can't cite that as a victory at all for the Kings. How is he helping the Kings now? JJ was a rotational player that fizzled out rather quick, he still has some upside but again, this is why fit matters. The Kings had clear needs with physicality and JJ didn't fit those. Giles was a drop gamble. Those are the types of picks that can net you something. Again, you bring up Bogdan, this is about draft scouting and relative draft positioning, NOT trades. And it's not even about who he took but like that article posted after the draft, it's the manner in which you gain them and how they fit. The players he took are solid but he still possibly could have had them and some of these BPA types that look like promising prospects.
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Bogdan hadn't played yet in the league so it was pretty much drafting him by acquiring his rights. They ACQUIRED HIS DRAFT RIGHTS in a trade.
 
chief bromden

chief bromden

Starter
#214
#214
SacTownKid said:
No, I'm saying that in terms of many of the top 100 lists they were wrong at the time. As in, here is consensus BPA type and here's what Vlade did. BPA lists aren't gospel but the fact is there is always going to be one even with GM's. WCS was a top 6 pick that just signed a minimum deal. He's a solid player and that was a bad draft overall but you can't cite that as a victory at all for the Kings. How is he helping the Kings now? JJ was a rotational player that fizzled out rather quick, he still has some upside but again, this is why fit matters. The Kings had clear needs with physicality and JJ didn't fit those. Giles was a drop gamble. Those are the types of picks that can net you something. Again, you bring up Bogdan, this is about draft scouting and relative draft positioning, NOT trades. And it's not even about who he took but like that article posted after the draft, it's the manner in which you gain them and how they fit. The players he took are solid but he still possibly could have had them and some of these BPA types that look like promising prospects.
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So what role does Vlade play in scouting? Maybe you should be nailing all these 'bad picks' on Mike Bratz, who was the director of scouting until January 2018. I know Vlade has purported that he 'has the final say,' but are we sure that there aren't most people involved in the decision making for who to draft than just Vlade?
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#215
#215
chief bromden said:
So what role does Vlade play in scouting? Maybe you should be nailing all these 'bad picks' on Mike Bratz, who was the director of scouting until January 2018. I know Vlade has purported that he 'has the final say,' but are we sure that there aren't most people involved in the decision making for who to draft than just Vlade?
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I have. I've mentioned it a few times and I think that Vlade needs to do a bit of a performance evaluation of his scouts. In the end, it's Vlade's call though and this still looks like an issue where their number 1 options are off the board and where they end up as a fall back. Rather than going more of a predictable route they typically take a stab in the dark with very mixed results.
 
L

L'Optimisme

Bench
#217
#217
Telemachus said:
https://twitter.com/statuses/1153380520438435841
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I particularly like his fluid quickness here, I can't see any detectable hitch or hesitation in any of his movements. He also looks stronger. Giles is a darkhorse breakout year candidate. Depending on how playing time settles out, this could be the year he finds his groove. WCS was a terrible big man combo for any other big on the floor. I consider him our #3 big right now. The way has been cleared for him.
 
L

L'Optimisme

Bench
#221
#221
SLAB said:
Literally the only thing that can possibly keep this kid down are the knees.

I cannot wait to see him this season.
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Yup. And I'm squinting really hard but I can't detect ANY weakness or lack or range of motion in his knees in this short clip. He's nearly three years out from those injuries now. They have brought him along nearly PERFECTLY. It's scary to think how good he could be. It's fully possible he could turn into that #1 pick that fell to us on a fluke injury. With where sports medicine and exercise science is at these days, the late 2010s are a good time to tear your ACLs while young. I'm definitely smoking my Kingscrack when I say that he might even be better because of the injuries and the highly focused development time it forced him into. But frankly it's good crack.
 
SLAB

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#222
#222
L'Optimisme said:
Yup. And I'm squinting really hard but I can't detect ANY weakness or lack or range of motion in his knees in this short clip. He's nearly three years out from those injuries now. They have brought him along nearly PERFECTLY. It's scary to think how good he could be. It's fully possible he could turn into that #1 pick that fell to us on a fluke injury. With where sports medicine and exercise science is at these days, the late 2010s are a good time to tear your ACLs while young. I'm definitely smoking my Kingscrack when I say that he might even be better because of the injuries and the highly focused development time it forced him into. But frankly it's good crack.
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I’ll have what you’re having, friend.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#224
#224
I don't mind at all that Giles was abusing just "smalls" in this video. With all the switching in the NBA, the bigs must be able to abuse smalls in the post in order to justify their existence. The opposing team will just go with all smalls if a big can't abuse them in the post. My only question about Giles' athleticism is his lift. It's one area that didn't have a lot of last year. Maybe he never gets great lift. Regardless, he can be very effective if he just continues to get stronger and improves his outside shot. He has great fluidity, coordination, and good quickness for a big guy. I'm looking for him to have a break out year this coming year. Also, I'm very curious how Walton uses him. Will he just be used at center like he was under Joerger? We'll see.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#225
#225
ESP47 said:
I don't remember very many people not agreeing with drafting Fox. It seemed like about 90% of us were happy to have a talented PG that actually wanted to be here. The only knocks on him came from his 3 point shooting. I don't remember many people wanting Isaac, Markkanen, Smith or Mitchell over Fox. There were 1 or 2 fans of each player but the general consensus was happiness when Fox was drafted.

Bagley was much more of a mixed bag obviously.

Vlade's 2016 draft was a disaster but his trades were very good. Don't forget he flipped Belinelli for the 22nd pick but flopped by selecting Malachi. I remember a lot of people here wanting Wade Baldwin at 13 and when he wasn't selected, many wanted Dejounte Murray with the 22nd or 28th pick. PapaG was a wtf pick. Malachi was kind of a groan from most of us and people were ok with Skal because of the potential talent level he had.
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Just another reminder to Kings' management that the biggest key to the draft is bugging the Spurs' drafting headquarters.
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#226
#226
Kingster said:
I don't mind at all that Giles was abusing just "smalls" in this video. With all the switching in the NBA, the bigs must be able to abuse smalls in the post in order to justify their existence. The opposing team will just go with all smalls if a big can't abuse them in the post. My only question about Giles' athleticism is his lift. It's one area that didn't have a lot of last year. Maybe he never gets great lift. Regardless, he can be very effective if he just continues to get stronger and improves his outside shot. He has great fluidity, coordination, and good quickness for a big guy. I'm looking for him to have a break out year this coming year. Also, I'm very curious how Walton uses him. Will he just be used at center like he was under Joerger? We'll see.
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One thing I clearly remember Giles doing well last year was taking advantage of mismatches. He was head and shoulders above Bagley when it came to scoring quickly with a smaller man on him.

Another thing that was weird is it seemed like he was strong enough to back a lot of big men down but wasn't strong enough to keep them from backing him down. Not sure if that was because of his knees or what but hopefully that improves this year.

I'm not holding out on his athleticism getting a whole lot better. I think his injuries have hurt his lift quite a bit but that shouldn't stop him from becoming a guy like Draymond who doesn't have hops either.
 
L

L'Optimisme

Bench
#228
#228
macadocious said:
I love Harry, but that was against

1. no idea who that was
2. A rookie PG
3. A 34 year old 6 1 PG who wasn't fully trying
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Stop it.

It's not about him beating shorty pgs in a sweaty gym. It's about how his movements looked going a nearly full speed. I actually thought Chris Paul was a just some guy off the street. A player can still show his stuff against that type of practice defense. Happens in pre draft workouts all the time.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#229
#229
There's a few places I can put this, mods feel free to move. Ringer has Giles listed as one of their potential Next Siakams: Five NBA Breakthrough Candidates
Harry Giles, F/C, Sacramento Kings
Sacramento’s summer made me want to go destroy Castle Byers: I know the Kings had to grow up, but part of me wishes they could play the unsuspected underdog in shootouts forever. Dreaming on the potential of a Marvin Bagley III and Harry Giles frontcourt pairing was no small part of last season’s fun, and even though the duo didn’t produce positive net ratings in limited court time together, you could see the chemistry between them developing, with both players proving interchangeable in the high-low post equation.

It’s rare to see a young big man possess the level of awareness and passing IQ that Giles does. There have been only 10 other rookies (over 6-foot-10, playing a minimum of 800 minutes) in NBA history to have an assist percentage higher than Giles, and the list includes some of the best passing bigs we’ve ever seen: Bill Walton, Nikola Jokic, Blake Griffin, and Lamar Odom, to name a few. Giles is lacking as a jump shooter, and his nondunk finishes around the rim can be on the ambitious side, but he understands spacing and passing windows well beyond his years.

The fear is that a suddenly crowded frontcourt featuring Harrison Barnes, Trevor Ariza, Dewayne Dedmon, Nemanja Bjelica, and Richaun Holmes will leave Giles with a similar role as last season. It’s understandable that Sacramento wants to make a push for the postseason, and that new head coach Luke Walton may opt for better pace-and-space options, but the former no. 1 player in the class of 2016 has talent that simply can’t be ignored. Giles needs court time to fully grasp his new physical limitations following multiple knee surgeries, work out his foul issues, and develop a more comfortable midrange game, but it’s time well spent. Don’t grow up too fast, Kings.
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That's 3 straight days of Kings-friendly content from the ringer.
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#234
#234
If anyone is interested, it’s Sacramento Kings day on NBATV today. No joke!
They are replaying classic games from KINGS history all day.

On right now is Mitch Richmond’s 47 point game against Houston in 1995.
Up next at 4PM PST is KINGS vs Dallas GM4 of the 2002 Conference Semis.
Up at 6PM PST is a profile of Chris Webber.
Up at 630PM PST is KINGS vs LAL GM5 of the 2002 Conference Finals. The Bibby shot.
Up at 10:30PM PST is KINGS vs OKC from last season, when Buddy hit 3 threes late in the game to steal the W.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#236
#236
Rewatching the game against the Bucks where the Kings almost pulled off a huge comeback despite Joerger starting the dumb Willie/Barnes/Bogie/Buddy/Fox lineup and taking Harry Giles out midway through the 4th quarter despite him being unstoppable after Bagley went down. Bogi had an amazing game, Buddy had a bad shooting night but wound up with 32, De'Aaron had an offnight and got muscled by Bledsoe in the clutch, but now that Joerger's no longer employed by the team I think I can say that his official "**** this I'm out of here" phase began somewhere between us trading for Barnes and the All-Star Break and the Kings would have probably won this game with a different coach.

Can't wait until October (thankfully we still have De'Aaron and Bogi and CoJo playing in the World Cup to tide us over)
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#238
#238
Saw this today and was immediately jealous. I love G1C, but was disappointed when I discovered they weren't including a large video display a la the T-Mobile Arena in Vegas and now the Chase Center in SF. Missed opportunity IMO.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1160237088043749376

FWIW, I went to a concert at the T-Mobile Arena in 2016 the first week it opened and saw this:




Naturally I was sorta expecting something similar here at home. With the way they are pushing DOCO as a gathering place, it just doesn't make sense not to have something like this in place.
 
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Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#239
#239
KingsFanSince85 said:
Saw this today and was immediately jealous. I love G1C, but was disappointed when I discovered they weren't including a large video display a la the T-Mobile Arena in Vegas and now the Chase Center in SF. Missed opportunity IMO.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1160237088043749376

FWIW, I went to a concert at the T-Mobile Arena in 2016 the first week it opened and saw this:




Naturally I was sorta expecting something similar here at home. With the way they are pushing DOCO as a gathering place, it just doesn't make sense not to have something like this in place.
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We have our giant screen, it's just behind the hangar windows.
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#240
#240
Tetsujin said:
We have our giant screen, it's just behind the hangar windows.
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True.

But those wonderful 4K screen aren't visible from outside the G1C.

Since the plaza at DOCO is positioned as a gathering spot, it'd make a lot of sense to have one of these. You saw what was happening outside the arena in Toronto during the postseason and Finals. The same could happen in SAC except that --- oh we don't have one of those here.

These displays outside major venues is becoming commonplace. Every single Grand Slam tennis event I know of has outdoor viewing available. Numerous NBA arenas have them now. Not everyone can get a ticket to the event. But would love to be near the action.

Since G1C was built only 3 years ago, it just never made sense to me that they didn't include something like this considering T-Mobile already had done it and now Chase Center has followed suit.
 
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