[Game] Kings @ Clippers - Tuesday, Dec. 26 - 7:30 PT

#62
Star Potential. You're right. I don't see it. There is No Mitchell, Markannan, Tatum, Kuzma, or Simmons. Out last hope for a Star in this draft is Giles. I think Fox will improve. But, he has so many flaws, besides shooting. I see him and I see another Effrid Payton. I hope, I am wrong.

Haha, play Kobe Bryant in a rotation like this and you can expect disappointment. I didn't think the epic fail of coaching Kings past could be topped. I can't believe it, I really can't. I have never seen a coach play starters for 5-7 minutes in each half on purpose. It's so bad that people are starting to point more fingers at the players. They might not be stars, then again, they might be, how will we ever know with in game management like this? It's like with George Hill, he was toast, he was garbage, he forgot how to play, then he started playing more and actually started being used as a focal point. This team is going to suck no matter what but the complete spirit crushing rotation management is just so unnecessary. You don't pull of the trade Vlade did last deadline and think you'll be better right away unless you're looney tunes. :D
 
#63
If anyone was wondering if 36 year old Weed-bo could sustain that level of production we saw for that stretch, the answer is no. Which I'm fine with on the tanking front, but he's going to get the usage and minutes whether he sucks or kills it.

The scouting report is out on Frank Mason. It's been obvious the last two games, but he's been quietly terrible for a good stretch of games now.

This new second unit lacks scoring. And going small but having the lone big be lumbering Koufos or Weed-bo in that group bothered me.

In regards to Buddy, the fact that they're not giving him the bulk of the SG minutes and a green light is mind-numbing to me. All of the franchise's top investments have in some way been jerked around or had some kind of leash or both. The only people who have had their role relatively consistent is surprise surprise, the vets.
 
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#64
I never thought I'd say this, but I really hope there is some sort of disconnect between the front office and coaching staff because if they are on the same page with this it's going to be a long season and then some.
If they are on the same page, then what we've seen for the entire season reeks of Vivek win-now shenanigans. If they're on the same page, then Vlade won't even entertain the idea of trading away some of the coaching staff's favorite toys.

I read somewhere today that the FO isn't trying to dictate to Joerger how to coach, though. Probably a good thing, for several reasons.
 
#66
Did WCS ever re-enter the game after having the best first quarter he has had all year in the 2nd quarter? Not a fan of Dave Joeger or the young talent we have. A few of them like WCS/Buddy/Bogie could all help teams with good IQ/ball movement but collectively unless we get a #1 pick (and it actually turns into a quality player) what we currently have and the way it's being developed is utter garbage.

But hey what's important is that Pete Youngman has said how beneficial the vets have been to the young guys..................not.
 
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#68
Hield should basically be playing 30 minutes a game no matter what. Unless it's a game like he had a month or so ago where he played zero defense, he needs to be on the floor. He's usually our most effective young guy. He's been shooting lights out for 2 months now but he's only averaging a tick over 13 points per game because he doesn't get the minutes. Many young guys have a sophomore slump but Joerger is essentially sophomore slumping Hield by cutting his minutes and slowing down his development from last year.
 
#69
Hield is interesting because at home he has been a much better shooter (mainly from 3)

Home: 12games
24.3 min .500/.554/1.000 15.0ppg

Road: 19games
22.1 min .415/.383/.857 11.1ppg

He's on my fantasy team so his yo-yoing game to game has made him a frustrating own. I have been trying to just play him at home which doesn't always work and still makes him frustrating.
 
#70
I mean if you aren't going to play the centerpiece in the Cousins trade at least 28-30mpg I'm not sure what the plan is
It's honestly mind-numbingly stupid how we handle Buddy. People keep saying we don't have a star player, but I think we actually have one waiting in the wings (Buddy, if people aren't clear on that), but Joerger has obviously can't see it. Dude has flat out been dominant since that first 7 game stretch as a scorer and rebounder, but he basically gets the axe if he struggles with his shot in the 1st quarter. WCS is in a similar vein as well.

I think Joerger is a great coach if you have a team that's trying to win and can get a lot out of just about any group of guys, as we've seen this season with probably the least-talented team in the NBA. But he's been downright awful with his rotation this year and is failing the prime directive of this season of trying to see which of these 9 first round picks deserves to be apart of the core for the future.
 
#71
After the first quarter, the Kings took the night off on defense. It does not matter who starts, or what the rotations are, in the NBA it takes team defense to win games. They gave up 71 points in the first half to a team decimated by injuries with plenty of rookies and free agents. This was an opportunity squandered. The Kings were out rebounded by a lot. Their defense stunk. Everything else is irrelevant.
 
#72
You know it occurred to me that George Hill really is the perfect PG for this coach.

This coach loves controlling the tempo, sucking the air out of the ball, futilely trying to re-create Memphis, and Hill is more than willing to be ultra conservative whether he goes early offense or runs the set.

George Hill almost always runs the set and this is why he is one of Joerger's favorites and probably lobbied hard for him last off-season over Collision. Hill is a good little soldier rarely defiant of his general.

Getting shellacked last night against a weal LAC team is NOT a surprise when you are sporting the league worst point differential and you have Z-Bud-centric offense bound to collapse.

Randolph was NOT going to play out of his mind indefinitely and playing against more formidable bigs in Aldridge, Gasol and Jordan the last two games have slowed his roll.

The problem is this coach has designed an offense so dependent upon Z-Bo in the absence of 20+ PPG the offense comes mostly to a grinding halt.

Especially when you think so little of your best perimeter scoring threat!

Before this game, I said I wanted to see Buddy continue to establish himself as a starter with challenge the upgrade in competition AND the intermittent support of the coach.

Once again, the Blob tells it like it is. ;)

How is Buddy suppose to find his groove when he is the first starter pulled at the 5:00 of the 1st quarter and sits the rest of the half? Total disrespect!

Granted Buddy gets himself in trouble with his handles, and misses assignments, but he wants to great, he wants to minimize these trouble spots, so let him make these mistakes and play on!

I like Boggy but this guy is too deferential to Oven Mitts and other teammates when we need him to be an aggressive scorer.

Why is Boggy so eager to pass it to a guy who has less offensive talent than he does?!

Buddy does not suffer this "malady". He will pass the ball to the open man but he plays to his strength. He is hungry.

Our coach seems to have a problem with this "hunger" if he is not running his precious system precisely and executing every assignment flawlessly.

Interesting who he choses to pick on since Z-Bo has made ZERO defensive plays at the rim and ZERO help defensive plays all year gets a FREE PASS from this coach!

For a team that has so much trouble scoring and runs so many half court sets, they could DEFINITELY benefit from Papa G mean an wide picks for 20-25 MPG.

Another memo that needs to be relayed to this clueless coach!

Between now and the deadline, Hill and Koufos need to be moved. I would settle for a 2nd round pick on Koufos or G-Leaguers just to free up time for Papa G.

This team is Bottom 5 team (or worse) with a fair chance at De'Andre Ayton, a transcendent talent and one of the best prospect in over decade.

After a game like last night, we may as well embrace the tank and the prospects of a player who will end Decade of Despair and turn the page to a Decade of Dominance.
 
#73
But lets not look at the fact that Joerger is playing half a dozen young guys in games.
No kidding. I missed the game, but from reading many of the comments in this thread, I wouldn't have thought that Richardson and BB8 each played around 30 minutes until I saw someone point it out on Twitter.
 
#74
After the first quarter, the Kings took the night off on defense. It does not matter who starts, or what the rotations are, in the NBA it takes team defense to win games. They gave up 71 points in the first half to a team decimated by injuries with plenty of rookies and free agents. This was an opportunity squandered. The Kings were out rebounded by a lot. Their defense stunk. Everything else is irrelevant.
I don't think it's irrelevant. There's always opportunity to develop and better your game, no matter what the score is.
 
#75
If they are on the same page, then what we've seen for the entire season reeks of Vivek win-now shenanigans. If they're on the same page, then Vlade won't even entertain the idea of trading away some of the coaching staff's favorite toys.

I read somewhere today that the FO isn't trying to dictate to Joerger how to coach, though. Probably a good thing, for several reasons.

Somebody needs to. This is a mess right now.
 
#77
Hield is interesting because at home he has been a much better shooter (mainly from 3)

Home: 12games
24.3 min .500/.554/1.000 15.0ppg

Road: 19games
22.1 min .415/.383/.857 11.1ppg

He's on my fantasy team so his yo-yoing game to game has made him a frustrating own. I have been trying to just play him at home which doesn't always work and still makes him frustrating.

I saw a fantasy site reporter basically scratch their head for an entire paragraph when describing the Kings rotation patterns.
 
#79
I'm fine with the way Joerger handled rotations yesterday. He didn't give the second unit a tight leash. This is a young team and they need to play through their mistakes.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#81
I'm starting to wonder if Joerger's rotations are determined somewhat by the record of the Kings. This is also known as "tank". It seems that the "lid" he (they?) wants on the winning percentage is .333, which keeps Kings in the bottom six teams of the league. The reason I wonder about this is that it was a real head-scratcher when he played WCS so little, who was playing well, and played Zach so much, who was playing very poorly. Randolph is a terrible matchup for the Clipps because he can't perform well on offense because of Jordan's length and Zach kills the Kings on defense because the Clipps can easily run on him and get shots at the rim with Zach providing no resistance whatsoever. That said, it is a different way to "tank," as you normally would expect a coach to just tank with a bunch of youngins, but when you tank with a vet (Zach) on the floor instead of a youngin (WCS) it's more subtle. Still, it's a tank. Maybe there is some other theme at work in these rotations that I don't perceive, but so far I haven't seen it.

My guess is that Joerger plays to win against the Cavs because he knows that he can coach like a genius and still lose against a superior team, but at the same time he'll check out how the youngins play against superior competition. It's a good teaching game.

I'm looking forward to seeing Giles and Fox in January - that's a Happy New Year!
 
#82
^^^ word... I really hope Giles plays. Because he may be the only reason to keep me interested for the rest of this season... especially with my boy PapaG glued to the bench unless we're down 20+.
 
#83
I'm starting to wonder if Joerger's rotations are determined somewhat by the record of the Kings. This is also known as "tank". It seems that the "lid" he (they?) wants on the winning percentage is .333, which keeps Kings in the bottom six teams of the league. The reason I wonder about this is that it was a real head-scratcher when he played WCS so little, who was playing well, and played Zach so much, who was playing very poorly. Randolph is a terrible matchup for the Clipps because he can't perform well on offense because of Jordan's length and Zach kills the Kings on defense because the Clipps can easily run on him and get shots at the rim with Zach providing no resistance whatsoever. That said, it is a different way to "tank," as you normally would expect a coach to just tank with a bunch of youngins, but when you tank with a vet (Zach) on the floor instead of a youngin (WCS) it's more subtle. Still, it's a tank. Maybe there is some other theme at work in these rotations that I don't perceive, but so far I haven't seen it.

My guess is that Joerger plays to win against the Cavs because he knows that he can coach like a genius and still lose against a superior team, but at the same time he'll check out how the youngins play against superior competition. It's a good teaching game.

I'm looking forward to seeing Giles and Fox in January - that's a Happy New Year!
If it's a tank then it's an inefficient way to tank because playing Skal or Papa instead of ZBo still nets you the loss but it gives them valuable on court developmental time. I was very surprised when he went to Koufos in the 2nd half after the game was blown wide open. I thought for sure that Skal or Papa would have been inserted instead of KK.

Personally, I don't think he's tanking. I think he's doing his best to try and give most of the guys equal playing time but I just think there should be a hierarchy of prospects that should be developed over others. Fox, Hield and Skal should be on a higher developmental plan than Malachi, Jackson and Mason. Having these guys compete and earn their playing time is important but you could stunt a possible impact players growth by spending too much time developing a guy who's ceiling is only the 10th guy in the rotation.
 
#84
The Kings played poorly and got 95 points. It is possible to score 105 points and win in this league, but if you give up 122 fagetaboutit.
The offense doesn't bother me much at all. The Kings sometimes can't hit anything, but sometimes they can. They move without the ball. Their interior passing has improved. They make fewer turnovers. When they rebound in a lackadasical manner, which they do often they get fewer offensive possessions. That is the difference in a lot of games.
When they show up and play defense they have a chance. Last night they didn't. I am guessing Coach is going to let them have it and that they play better tonight.
 
#85
First time poster, though a long time watcher of this forum but I just had to finally get something off my chest!

After watching WCS dominate the 1st 1/4 against the Clippers yesterday (he was everywhere man!), how does he get rewarded by the Coach, by taking a seat for the entire 2nd 1/4 which IMO setup the blow-out in the 2nd half.

WCS is quickly elevating his game but the spotty minutes his coach dishes out is truly head scratching.

Maybe the team should bench Coach Joerger for the 2nd 1/4 and send him to the locker room, I'm sure one of the assistants know's how to better run the team?

Kings have themselves an offensive minded Deandre Jordan on their hands here, and once WCS fills out and works it out fully, a beast they will have!

Or will this go the same way like IT, Whiteside and Cousins to a lesser extent?

Go Kings....!
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#86
If it's a tank then it's an inefficient way to tank because playing Skal or Papa instead of ZBo still nets you the loss but it gives them valuable on court developmental time. I was very surprised when he went to Koufos in the 2nd half after the game was blown wide open. I thought for sure that Skal or Papa would have been inserted instead of KK.

Personally, I don't think he's tanking. I think he's doing his best to try and give most of the guys equal playing time but I just think there should be a hierarchy of prospects that should be developed over others. Fox, Hield and Skal should be on a higher developmental plan than Malachi, Jackson and Mason. Having these guys compete and earn their playing time is important but you could stunt a possible impact players growth by spending too much time developing a guy who's ceiling is only the 10th guy in the rotation.
I think he's juggling several competing goals. Developing the youth with the help of the veterans, discovering what the youth is capable of (assessing), and winning, are among them. And behind it all is the notion that all of the foregoing is to lead to a very good draft position. Depending on how he arranges all of the foregoing, he increases or decreases his chances of losing or winning.

Regarding your point, I'm not sure whether they fully have an idea of the ceiling of these guys yet. I think that's part of their process.