[Game] Kings at Blazers, Wednesday Dec. 4, 7 PM PT/10 PM ET

[Kingster]

All the alternatives are injured

No they aren't.

 

[Section 101]

I agree but we literally had no one else right now. Teams actually have to plan for and defend Buddy while they can pretty much just play straight man defense on the rest of the team without having to pay for it.

How would we know about others when buddy brings the ball up runs off a screen then shoots it?

 

[Tetsujin]

No they aren't.

But you aren't really answering the question: What would you have done then?

"Not Buddy" doesn't work when your second best offensive option in the game spent most of the first half trying to trade buckets with 37-year-old Carmelo Anthony and Harrison Barnes was struggling all night for whatever reason.

 

[Tetsujin]

How would we know about others when buddy brings the ball up runs off a screen then shoots it?

He didn't really though. Buddy had something crazy like 10 shots in the 1st quarter. Considering the fact you all are bitching about him, he literally disappeared offensively for long stretches of the rest of the game in which decidedly did not go the Kings way

 

[Kingster]

But you aren't really answering the question: What would you have done then?

"Not Buddy" doesn't work when your second best offensive option in the game spent most of the first half trying to trade buckets with 37-year-old Carmelo Anthony and Harrison Barnes was struggling all night for whatever reason.

You didn't ask me a question, until now.

Look, if you want to have a jack-fest, how about spreading the jack around instead of having Buddy Jack-the-Ball-Up Hield monopolize it? Obviously, there are other players who can shoot on the floor: Barnes, Bjelica, Yogi. Yogi took 7 shots and made 13 points. Oh, but Yogi can't play defense. And Buddy can? Oh, but Yogi got his shot blocked when going into the paint. And Buddy didn't? How about 3x in the first quarter. Barnes and Bjelica shot no worse than Buddy, but both are superior passers than Buddy, so why weren't they handling the ball more? How is Harrison going to get involved if Buddy is engaged in his high usage jack-it-up fest? Harrison needed to lite himself on fire last night in order to get the ball. Buddy should be cutting off of both Harrison and Bjelica, not doing his show while they stand around. Seventeen freaking shots in the first half alone. He must think he's James Harden.

 

[SacTownKid]

Hield took 24 shots and scored only 23 points, less than a point per shot attempt. At a minimum, he needed to score 31 points (1.3 pts/shot)on those 24 shot attempts. His lack of efficiency was a big problem in this game. Also, he was absolutely abused by McCollum, who scored 33 points off of 22 shot attempts (1.5 points/shot attempt).

The Kings are getting abused on pick and roll lately. This is another game where they let a guard just have an open look around the screen. By the time Walton when to the hedge or double it was too late. They can't let players get going early because it's a down hill slope. They need to force these guards to drive or pass the ball. Especially when there isn't a shooting big on the other team. Individually the Kings were pretty good defensively, their team defense is good at times but they give up the other teams first option play too much. They help too much off the corners and don't pressure the ball until they are already down. That needs to be switched up earlier in the game.

 

[SacTownKid]

You didn't ask me a question, until now.

Look, if you want to have a jack-fest, how about spreading the jack around instead of having Buddy Jack-the-Ball-Up Hield monopolize it? Obviously, there are other players who can shoot on the floor: Barnes, Bjelica, Yogi. Yogi took 7 shots and made 13 points. Oh, but Yogi can't play defense. And Buddy can? Oh, but Yogi got his shot blocked when going into the paint. And Buddy didn't? How about 3x in the first quarter. Barnes and Bjelica shot no worse than Buddy, but both are superior passers than Buddy, so why weren't they handling the ball more? How is Harrison going to get involved if Buddy is engaged in his high usage jack-it-up fest? Harrison needed to lite himself on fire last night in order to get the ball. Buddy should be cutting off of both Harrison and Bjelica, not doing his show while they stand around. Seventeen freaking shots in the first half alone. He must think he's James Harden.

The difference is Yogi is somewhat one dimensional. His offense is mostly going to come off of short middle pick and roll. Teams can shut that off almost any time they want. In fact, that same play is the one they need to draw up more for Buddy. The issue with the players around him right now is the Kings have very little shot creation at the 3 point line. CoJo doesn't want to shoot and probably shouldn't, Bjelica is more of an in the flow deep shooter, and Barnes would rather drive. Buddy has been off lately and I'm starting to wonder if his finger is messed up because his trajectory looks different. He's putting the ball down farther than normal and he's using less finger tips and utilizing more of a throw. One positive out of Buddy last night was he finally said screw it and pulled out some really interesting drives. The kind of drives he would pull out in college. Buddy comes off as selfish but I think the opposite is actually true. He's looking for his teammates too much when surveying the floor. I noticed a few games back players are starting to pick his pocket not because he's looking to score but because he's looking off the ball for cutters. His head goes up and he loses sight of his defender and the ball.

 

[Livinthedream]

How would we know about others when buddy brings the ball up runs off a screen then shoots it?

Buddy is not holding the team and coaches hostage. It's in the game plan for him to handle, create and shoot. The coaches want this because he is the sole player on the court for them that can single handedly catch fire and takeover a game. I love HB, but you ask him to be more aggressive, not take over. I know Bjelica will come up, so Bjelica can give you spurts, but gets in trouble when he tries to do too much.

Buddy's efficiency was down because Portland understood this as well and threw everything at Buddy. Holmes had a career high because Portland didn't care about him hitting mid range jumpers. As long as Buddy and HB were in check.

 

[Kingster]

The Kings are getting abused on pick and roll lately. This is another game where they let a guard just have an open look around the screen. By the time Walton when to the hedge or double it was too late. They can't let players get going early because it's a down hill slope. They need to force these guards to drive or pass the ball. Especially when there isn't a shooting big on the other team. Individually the Kings were pretty good defensively, their team defense is good at times but they give up the other teams first option play too much. They help too much off the corners and don't pressure the ball until they are already down. That needs to be switched up earlier in the game.

I think there's truth to this.

In the Chicago game the Kings' turnovers, which began with five in the first quarter, gave the Bulls a big boost of confidence early in the game. You could almost see the Bulls thinking, "We're in this thing. They are giving us free shots." For a relatively poor team, there's nothing like the opponent giving you free shots to make you feel more relaxed and confident in shooting the ball, thereby being on the "down hill slope."

In the Portland game, McCollum got it rolling in the first quarter and he was like a Olympic slalom skier on "a down hill slope" after that. It makes sense to me that some adjustments had to be made earlier to break the momentum, to add friction to slow the downhill acceleration. Whether Walton tried to make those adjustments or not is up for debate. We never really know how much of his instruction is implemented on the court. My own speculation is that Walton was giving Buddy the benefit of the doubt - more rope, if you will. Christie kept talking about the need for Buddy to run through screens, but we never did see that.

But now let me argue against myself. In the Denver game, Harris was a man on fire in the first half. (Again, the man guarding him was Buddy Hield). Harris hasn't topped the 12-point mark in eight of his last nine games. The exception was the Kings' game, in which he finished the game with 25 points off of 16 attempts (over 1.5 pts/attempt, just like McCollum). The Kings did slow him down somewhat in the 2nd half and won the game, despite his fast start. But a herculean (and somewhat lucky) effort had to occur in order to do it.

P.S. IMO, it's no coincidence that Portland's game plan was to feed the ball early and often to McCollum. They knew full well who was guarding him. IMO, Buddy is going to be attacked like minnows are from barracuda in the upcoming games. Opponents see what works.

 

[Kingster]

The difference is Yogi is somewhat one dimensional. His offense is mostly going to come off of short middle pick and roll. Teams can shut that off almost any time they want. In fact, that same play is the one they need to draw up more for Buddy. The issue with the players around him right now is the Kings have very little shot creation at the 3 point line. CoJo doesn't want to shoot and probably shouldn't, Bjelica is more of an in the flow deep shooter, and Barnes would rather drive. Buddy has been off lately and I'm starting to wonder if his finger is messed up because his trajectory looks different. He's putting the ball down farther than normal and he's using less finger tips and utilizing more of a throw. One positive out of Buddy last night was he finally said screw it and pulled out some really interesting drives. The kind of drives he would pull out in college. Buddy comes off as selfish but I think the opposite is actually true. He's looking for his teammates too much when surveying the floor. I noticed a few games back players are starting to pick his pocket not because he's looking to score but because he's looking off the ball for cutters. His head goes up and he loses sight of his defender and the ball.

I don't agree with this. Too bad we can't do the time experiment where we tell Yogi at the beginning of the Portland game, "We want you to jack it up at will. Seventeen shots in the first half is no problem." It would be an interesting comparison to see what his efficiency would have been to Buddy's. Given that Buddy scored less than a point a shot attempt, the bar wouldn't have been very high for Yogi to clear. All that aside, the point is not to give Yogi the Buddy hat to jack-it-up at will. It's to spread the ball in a diversified manner to Yogi, Barnes, Bjelica and Buddy. By so doing the offense becomes less predictable and more efficient. Buddy's jack-it-up high usage fest precluded that from happening. I agree about the Buddy drives - it fits with my theme of "diversification" to create less predictability and more efficiency. We need to see more of that and less jack-it-up with a defender's hand in his face at the 3 point line.

 

[jellyfish]

But you aren't really answering the question: What would you have done then?

"Not Buddy" doesn't work when your second best offensive option in the game spent most of the first half trying to trade buckets with 37-year-old Carmelo Anthony and Harrison Barnes was struggling all night for whatever reason.

Who just won player of the week averaging 22.7 on like 57% shooting

 

[okrim]

Who just won player of the week averaging 22.7 on like 57% shooting

and who is 35

 

[ESP47]

Why are people so bent out of shape about people criticizing Buddy's shooting? I don't care if the coach wants him to shoot this much or not, it's not winning basketball. Whoever you want to blame for it doesn't really matter because the Kings aren't going to win many games playing Buddy like this. He will catch fire once in a while like he did against Boston but otherwise you're going 1-4 every 5 games because he's not Steph Curry or James Harden or Luka Doncic or Lebron James.

Another poster said he should be used more like Klay Thompson, which is correct and that's more how he was used last year. There are other guys on this team that can step up and make shots. Give me an open 15 footer from CoJo or Yogi over Buddy spamming low percentage threes off the dribble. If your points are the same or lower than your field goals attempted, you are hurting your team unless you're playing elite defense.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think there's truth to this.

In the Chicago game the Kings' turnovers, which began with five in the first quarter, gave the Bulls a big boost of confidence early in the game. You could almost see the Bulls thinking, "We're in this thing. They are giving us free shots." For a relatively poor team, there's nothing like the opponent giving you free shots to make you feel more relaxed and confident in shooting the ball, thereby being on the "down hill slope."

In the Portland game, McCollum got it rolling in the first quarter and he was like a Olympic slalom skier on "a down hill slope" after that. It makes sense to me that some adjustments had to be made earlier to break the momentum, to add friction to slow the downhill acceleration. Whether Walton tried to make those adjustments or not is up for debate. We never really know how much of his instruction is implemented on the court. My own speculation is that Walton was giving Buddy the benefit of the doubt - more rope, if you will. Christie kept talking about the need for Buddy to run through screens, but we never did see that.

But now let me argue against myself. In the Denver game, Harris was a man on fire in the first half. (Again, the man guarding him was Buddy Hield). Harris hasn't topped the 12-point mark in eight of his last nine games. The exception was the Kings' game, in which he finished the game with 25 points off of 16 attempts (over 1.5 pts/attempt, just like McCollum). The Kings did slow him down somewhat in the 2nd half and won the game, despite his fast start. But a herculean (and somewhat lucky) effort had to occur in order to do it.

P.S. IMO, it's no coincidence that Portland's game plan was to feed the ball early and often to McCollum. They knew full well who was guarding him. IMO, Buddy is going to be attacked like minnows are from barracuda in the upcoming games. Opponents see what works.

A lot of the looks they get though is in pick and roll which is a team defensive scheme. Buddy isn't the best at getting around or through screens but one of the reasons almost every guard that can shoot is going for near 30 a game the last few years is because pick and roll is the cheat code. You have to either switch them or kind of run a multiple option system. Hedge out or double if you have you at the athletic bigs to pull it pff (Holmes is awesome at this), play it straight, etc. but when one style is not working change it up earlier than the last few minutes of a game. Players get hot and you can't rely on stopping them then. Overall I'm impressed with the Kings help defense but being ahead of the adjustments could turn this team into a real threat.

 

[SacTownKid]

I don't agree with this. Too bad we can't do the time experiment where we tell Yogi at the beginning of the Portland game, "We want you to jack it up at will. Seventeen shots in the first half is no problem." It would be an interesting comparison to see what his efficiency would have been to Buddy's. Given that Buddy scored less than a point a shot attempt, the bar wouldn't have been very high for Yogi to clear. All that aside, the point is not to give Yogi the Buddy hat to jack-it-up at will. It's to spread the ball in a diversified manner to Yogi, Barnes, Bjelica and Buddy. By so doing the offense becomes less predictable and more efficient. Buddy's jack-it-up high usage fest precluded that from happening. I agree about the Buddy drives - it fits with my theme of "diversification" to create less predictability and more efficiency. We need to see more of that and less jack-it-up with a defender's hand in his face at the 3 point line.

I mostly agree with you and remember this as well, the opposing team is leaning the whole weight of their defense to Buddy. You can see it every game. They load up the strong side on help. Yogi can get hot and he's been a decent scorer for awhile now but teams will let you go with that strategy every day all day. I agree that spreading the ball is the right idea. My opinion is they need to spread the court a little more and find spot shooters more effectively. Too many non threats are creating off the dribble or being put in a position to iso post up. Bjelica can post up but his main benefit is as a spacer so having him do anything other than that just means you are less than in total as you're doing it. Last night the Kings started to show some of that full court pace game of last year which is also something they can hopefully build on. We'll see what Fox and Bagley can do to close the gap but outside of Harrison Barnes this team doesn't have a great edge when trying to control the pace via a half court game.

 

[ppine]

It would help a lot if people could complain less about Hield, injuries and the refs.
It is what it is. Get used to it.

 

[mac]

Why are people so bent out of shape about people criticizing Buddy's shooting? I don't care if the coach wants him to shoot this much or not, it's not winning basketball. Whoever you want to blame for it doesn't really matter because the Kings aren't going to win many games playing Buddy like this. He will catch fire once in a while like he did against Boston but otherwise you're going 1-4 every 5 games because he's not Steph Curry or James Harden or Luka Doncic or Lebron James.

Another poster said he should be used more like Klay Thompson, which is correct and that's more how he was used last year. There are other guys on this team that can step up and make shots. Give me an open 15 footer from CoJo or Yogi over Buddy spamming low percentage threes off the dribble. If your points are the same or lower than your field goals attempted, you are hurting your team unless you're playing elite defense.

And again, please tell me who is going to create these wide open shots for Buddy? Who is the defense collapsing on to leave Buddy Hield open?

 

[ESP47]

And again, please tell me who is going to create these wide open shots for Buddy? Who is the defense collapsing on to leave Buddy Hield open?

If Buddy has to be a much lesser version of Klay, then that's better than him being a much lesser version of Steph because then at least his usage isn't sky high resulting in the Kings not being able to win unless they play lock down defense all game.

This type of basketball is not winning games and it's plain to see. You guys are acting like the only offense that's practical is to just have Buddy running around shooting off the dribble like crazy and that's just not true. Look at how many other players on the team were more efficient than Buddy last night? Bjelica, Holmes, Joseph, Ariza, Dedmon and Ferrell were all more efficient than Buddy. You think they were only efficient because Buddy was on the court forcing to defense to focus on him?

You mean to tell me that dividing up some of his bad shots to other players on the team has no chance of possibly resulting in a higher efficiency than the 23 points on 24 FGA that we got out of him? That there was no other possible scenario that could have been better for the team on offense than having Buddy dribble all over the place and jack up shots left and right? There's more than one way to skin a cat and this way ain't working.

 

[Tetsujin]

And again, please tell me who is going to create these wide open shots for Buddy? Who is the defense collapsing on to leave Buddy Hield open?

...CoJo?

 

[burekijogurt]

...CoJo?

what hapenned to trusting your teammates. is player who passes first loses ok if its Buddy?

 

[Tetsujin]

what hapenned to trusting your teammates. is player who passes first loses ok if its Buddy?

I mean Buddy had 7 assists so it’s not he wasn’t passing the ball to teammates.

 

[Livinthedream]

Sports would be so easy if all you had to do was read a stat and plug and play. There are so many variables that contribute to any stat that can't be quantified. Even the beloved advanced stat.

 

[mac]

If Buddy has to be a much lesser version of Klay, then that's better than him being a much lesser version of Steph because then at least his usage isn't sky high resulting in the Kings not being able to win unless they play lock down defense all game.

This type of basketball is not winning games and it's plain to see. You guys are acting like the only offense that's practical is to just have Buddy running around shooting off the dribble like crazy and that's just not true. Look at how many other players on the team were more efficient than Buddy last night? Bjelica, Holmes, Joseph, Ariza, Dedmon and Ferrell were all more efficient than Buddy. You think they were only efficient because Buddy was on the court forcing to defense to focus on him?

You mean to tell me that dividing up some of his bad shots to other players on the team has no chance of possibly resulting in a higher efficiency than the 23 points on 24 FGA that we got out of him? That there was no other possible scenario that could have been better for the team on offense than having Buddy dribble all over the place and jack up shots left and right? There's more than one way to skin a cat and this way ain't working.

Pretty much yes to the bolded.

Still not answering the question. Or are you just saying we give the ball to these other guys and say go get a bucket as well? I get efficiency, I do. But what you're suggesting is taking guys who are (I) not playmakers, (ii) even less equipped to get their own and suggesting to use them to get better shots for the team. Yogi is one possible case that I'll give you - but the rest? Ariza can barely hit open catch and shoot 3s these days and you want him to draw the defense and kick the ball out? Beli? I know it may sound good on paper but in reality you don't just "divide up" bad shots. Good shots are created by drawing defense, and you still haven't told me your plan to do this outside of Buddy trying to score. Look at the Warriors - any guesses as to why they're not a good team? Is it because they just have one guy jacking up shots while there are more "efficient" options standing around?

It's not like Buddy wasn't passing the ball when he was doubled...

 

[ESP47]

Pretty much yes to the bolded.

Still not answering the question. Or are you just saying we give the ball to these other guys and say go get a bucket as well? I get efficiency, I do. But what you're suggesting is taking guys who are (I) not playmakers, (ii) even less equipped to get their own and suggesting to use them to get better shots for the team. Yogi is one possible case that I'll give you - but the rest? Ariza can barely hit open catch and shoot 3s these days and you want him to draw the defense and kick the ball out? Beli? I know it may sound good on paper but in reality you don't just "divide up" bad shots. Good shots are created by drawing defense, and you still haven't told me your plan to do this outside of Buddy trying to score. Look at the Warriors - any guesses as to why they're not a good team? Is it because they just have one guy jacking up shots while there are more "efficient" options standing around?

It's not like Buddy wasn't passing the ball when he was doubled...

I mean obviously I can't map out an entire game plan on here. I don't have the time nor desire but you are off base by comparing this roster to the Warriors current roster that almost looks like it's out of the G League. The system should get them more open looks than many of the ones Buddy is getting. With the team we had last night, Buddy obviously should have been the guy to take the most shots but he took way too many ill advised home run shots when it wasn't necessary. He is not the type of player that makes you pay when you double team him. If he's being double teamed, someone else is obviously open. The other guys on the court last night aren't perfect but they aren't as inept as you make them seem. Many of them are pretty high IQ players despite not being the most physically gifted or talented.

Buddy actually did a good job play making last night but CoJo, Barnes, Bejelica and Ferrell did a decent job of picking up the slack. Hell, if you need play making then get Giles out there and see what happens for a short stint. The Buddy ball game plan does not work well enough to justify using it as much as we have been. Everyone and their mother knows NBA games aren't won by giving Buddy the ball and letting him go at it.

 

[Kingster]

I mostly agree with you and remember this as well, the opposing team is leaning the whole weight of their defense to Buddy. You can see it every game. They load up the strong side on help. Yogi can get hot and he's been a decent scorer for awhile now but teams will let you go with that strategy every day all day. I agree that spreading the ball is the right idea. My opinion is they need to spread the court a little more and find spot shooters more effectively. Too many non threats are creating off the dribble or being put in a position to iso post up. Bjelica can post up but his main benefit is as a spacer so having him do anything other than that just means you are less than in total as you're doing it. Last night the Kings started to show some of that full court pace game of last year which is also something they can hopefully build on. We'll see what Fox and Bagley can do to close the gap but outside of Harrison Barnes this team doesn't have a great edge when trying to control the pace via a half court game.

All the more reason for Hield to not jack up 17 shots by half time. I think we'll both agree that when Fox, Bagley and Bogs are out of the lineup there is far less room for error on this team. Hence, my pique at the poor decision-making of Buddy Hield.

 

[Livinthedream]

All the more reason for Hield to not jack up 17 shots by half time. I think we'll both agree that when Fox, Bagley and Bogs are out of the lineup there is far less room for error on this team. Hence, my pique at the poor decision-making of Buddy Hield.

If Buddy isn't attracting that attention, the other teammates aren't getting high percentage shots.

 

[burekijogurt]

I mean Buddy had 7 assists so it’s not he wasn’t passing the ball to teammates.

I am comparing his treatement to that of Bogdanovic who AVERAGES almost 5 assits.per game and takes 6 shots less per game than Buddy on average, yet is berrated for being a selfish chucker, not trusting his teammates, Kobe wannabe, etc...

 

[steelevt]

You should have seen the beginning of the game. That's was the beginning of the carnage. Ariza was guarding McCollum because Buddy obviously couldn't.

3/4 for 7 points in about 8 minutes of play. That’s assuming there were no switches and buddy was guarding him the whole time. Id say the carnage was when buddy went out and started the beginning of the second.

 

[Kingster]

I am comparing his treatement to that of Bogdanovic who AVERAGES almost 5 assits.per game and takes 6 shots less per game than Buddy on average, yet is berrated for being a selfish chucker, not trusting his teammates, Kobe wannabe, etc...

Seventeen shots by halftime is by definition a selfish chucker. And if the defense is focused against him, that magnifies that 17 shot attempts proportionately. It's like taking 25 shots when the defense doesn't have it's focus on him. If the defense is focusing against him, he should be taking less than his average for the half, not more. The guys who should be taking more shots are the shooters that the defense is not focused upon. Sorry, he's not James Harden or Kobe Bryant. Not close. He has to take shots when he's not closely guarded, not when he is closely guarded at the 3 point line. Maybe this past game was the final climax of it all. Maybe not. Maybe Buddy Hield is just continuing his trend of brain-dead basketball, interrupted by a few one-off occasions of hot shooting. We are now at the 20-game mark. How long is it going to take for Buddy Hield to get it?