Kevin Martin, better shooter than Peja?

[target]

According to this blog entry, he is. Well, at least for one day he was.

http://coachthorpe.typepad.com/the_pro_training_center/2006/05/how_important_a.html

Part of a blog entry from David Thorpe, who K-Mart hired to help him prepare for the draft:

"Personally, I've seen what a great workout can do for a draft pick, 2 years in a row.

In 2004, one of my players, Kevin Martin, was considered a longshot for the 2nd round. None other than Marty Blake, the NBA guru, called Martin's decision to pull out of the Chicago
pre-draft camp "a horrific mistake". But we knew something he did not know; Martin was wowing NBA execs, who were telling us that he is a definite first round talent. The only question was-who would pull the trigger and make him the only mid-major player to go in round 1. After the pre-draft camp, Kevin flew to Sacramento to work out for the Kings. That night, we got the word that Kevin was phenomenal in the workout. GM Geoff Petrie loved his talent and upside. After the draft, when Kevin became the 26th pick of the first round for the Kings, we found out just how phenomenal he was. Petrie told me that they chart every shot a player shoots, from warm-ups to the 1 on 1 games. Kevin shot an eye-popping 83%!! Even better than the previous record holder for Kings' workouts, some guy named Peja. Add Kevin's amazing quickness and 42 inch vertical, and you've got yourself a first round draft pick. I think Kevin's play this year when Bonzi went down justified Petrie's selection, and his future looks very bright."

Just something Kings related to help you push through the offseason...

 

[DocHolliday]

According to this blog entry, he is. Well, at least for one day he was.

http://coachthorpe.typepad.com/the_pro_training_center/2006/05/how_important_a.html

Part of a blog entry from David Thorpe, who K-Mart hired to help him prepare for the draft:

"Personally, I've seen what a great workout can do for a draft pick, 2 years in a row.

In 2004, one of my players, Kevin Martin, was considered a longshot for the 2nd round. None other than Marty Blake, the NBA guru, called Martin's decision to pull out of the Chicago
pre-draft camp "a horrific mistake". But we knew something he did not know; Martin was wowing NBA execs, who were telling us that he is a definite first round talent. The only question was-who would pull the trigger and make him the only mid-major player to go in round 1. After the pre-draft camp, Kevin flew to Sacramento to work out for the Kings. That night, we got the word that Kevin was phenomenal in the workout. GM Geoff Petrie loved his talent and upside. After the draft, when Kevin became the 26th pick of the first round for the Kings, we found out just how phenomenal he was. Petrie told me that they chart every shot a player shoots, from warm-ups to the 1 on 1 games. Kevin shot an eye-popping 83%!! Even better than the previous record holder for Kings' workouts, some guy named Peja. Add Kevin's amazing quickness and 42 inch vertical, and you've got yourself a first round draft pick. I think Kevin's play this year when Bonzi went down justified Petrie's selection, and his future looks very bright."

Just something Kings related to help you push through the offseason...

If we're talking just purely jump shooting from the outside, Kevin doesn't have the consistancy that Peja had at his peak. He's not there yet. As far as his overall game?? I think Martin is already better. I like his defense, his energy, his leaping ability and TOUGHNESS. I capatalized that, because that is something you have or you don't. Peja didn't Martin does. I just want Martin to put on another 20 lbs.

 

[Padrino]

If we're talking just purely jump shooting from the outside, Kevin doesn't have the consistancy that Peja had at his peak. He's not there yet. As far as his overall game?? I think Martin is already better. I like his defense, his energy, his leaping ability and TOUGHNESS. I capatalized that, because that is something you have or you don't. Peja didn't Martin does. I just want marting to put on another 20 lbs.

i used to share this sentiment, but then i realized that it just ain't gonna happen, and it really doesn't need to happen. it wouldn't hurt if martin put on another 10 pounds, primarily in upper body strength, but its unnecessary. sure, he gets bounced around on both offense and defense, but he's heady enough to use that to his advantage. its much easier to exaggerate/flop on a play when you aren't really exaggerating/flopping. martin gets tossed around because he's light, but that's okay, cuz he seems to draw quite a few fouls, and he's become a prolific free throw shooter already. if the kings resign bonzi wells, then what you have is versatility. martin's quickness--which would dissipate if he gained a whole lot of weight--is useful on a kings team which lacks quickness in general. bonzi wells' strength is also useful on a team that doesn't have a lot of strongarm banger type players. split the minutes between those two guys as matchups dictate the necessity. you don't need tweeners to be versatile, and i hope petrie and the rest of management sees how valuable their mismatches already are.

 

[JB_kings]

His long range shooting doesn't impress me as much as his mid-range shooting. I kind of chuckled when I heard that the coaching staff was trying to get him to model his game after Rip Hamilton. But low and behold he started show some brief moments of using his athletic ability to drive past his man and rise up for a short jumper. He even showed that he could move off the ball and still get a good shot off. Hopefully this summer he'll work to improve his ball handling and long range shooting.

 

[DocHolliday]

i used to share this sentiment, but then i realized that it just ain't gonna happen, and it really doesn't need to happen. it wouldn't hurt if martin put on another 10 pounds, primarily in upper body strength, but its unnecessary. sure, he gets bounced around on both offense and defense, but he's heady enough to use that to his advantage. its much easier to exaggerate/flop on a play when you aren't really exaggerating/flopping. martin gets tossed around because he's light, but that's okay, cuz he seems to draw quite a few fouls, and he's become a prolific free throw shooter already. if the kings resign bonzi wells, then what you have is versatility. martin's quickness--which would dissipate if he gained a whole lot of weight--is useful on a kings team which lacks quickness in general. bonzi wells' strength is also useful on a team that doesn't have a lot of strongarm banger type players. split the minutes between those two guys as matchups dictate the necessity. you don't need tweeners to be versatile, and i hope petrie and the rest of management sees how valuable their mismatches already are.

I figure by the time he's 27 he'll be about 15-20 pounds heavier. He'll be similar to a Tayshaun Prince. Tayshaun is 6' 9" @ 215lbs. That's what he's listed at anyway. Martin is listed 6' 7" 185lbs. IF Martin could be 205lbs that would be good.

 

[NewMonkey]

It's because there was pressure on Peja to perform during the tryout. In practice (no pressure), Peja could hit something like 80-85 of a hundred three pointers. Steve Kerr (the greatest percentage three point shooter in NBA history) said he could hit 60-70 of a hundred at his peak. There isn't a better shooter than Peja, but he's a house of cards when there is any pressure on him. The guy has the physical potential to make 50% of his threes over the course of a season, but his mental weakness will never allow that to happen.

 

[VF21]

DocHolliday - His family gene pool might dictate otherwise. The kid has been thin his entire life. Part of speed comes from that. I don't understand the rationale that gaining weight will necessarily make him better. It might actually do just the reverse. He can gain muscle and strength without necessarily gaining weight.

 

[VF21]

It's because there was pressure on Peja to perform during the tryout. In practice (no pressure), Peja could hit something like 80-85 of a hundred three pointers. Steve Kerr (the greatest percentage three point shooter in NBA history) said he could hit 60-70 of a hundred at his peak. There isn't a better shooter than Peja, but he's a house of cards when there is any pressure on him. The guy has the physical potential to make 50% of his threes over the course of a season, but his mental weakness will never allow that to happen.

Okay, but there was also pressure on Martin...in fact, I would argue there was a lot more pressure on Kevin. Peja was already a star, just in a different universe.

 

[DocHolliday]

DocHolliday - His family gene pool might dictate otherwise. The kid has been thin his entire life. Part of speed comes from that. I don't understand the rationale that gaining weight will necessarily make him better. It might actually do just the reverse. He can gain muscle and strength without necessarily gaining weight.

Muscle weighs more than fat pound for pound. To add strength you must add muscle, when you add muscle you will add weight. It may cut his 42" vertical by a couple inches. I think he'll still manage to dunk the ball though lol. I think he'll still be pretty quick. I've been very lean all my life as well. I work out out a lot. I have since I was 15 and I will be 29 in July. Even as high as my metabolism is I have managed to put on weight. I'm barely about 180 lbs at 6' tall. Which is a good weight for me. Back when I was 22, I probably was around 155

 

[SacKings384]

Peja was never a high percentage mid-range shooter. But Martin isn't even close to Peja as far as beyond the arc is concerned. Peja is almost automatic from there.

 

[DocHolliday]

Okay, but there was also pressure on Martin...in fact, I would argue there was a lot more pressure on Kevin. Peja was already a star, just in a different universe.

Which proves even further that Peja has always sucked under pressure, and Kevin can play with it.

Sorry I couldn't resist.

 

[DocHolliday]

Peja was never a high percentage mid-range shooter. But Martin isn't even close to Peja as far as beyond the arc is concerned. Peja is almost automatic from there.

He used to be. Not quite as much anymore. At least not while he was still with the Kings. Didn't watch him in Indiana.

 

[chaps]

Kevin Martin a better shooter than Stojakovic?

absolutely ridiculous.

1st) What makes a player a good shooter is consistency. Not how great he was at one given moment. It's how many times he can duplicate that effort. That 83% from downtown is impressive but it's nothing more than somebody being hot. It doesn't mean much because Kevin could probably never duplicate if ever. Kind of like when Rasheed hit countless 3s in a row from his left hand in practice. Really impressive don't get me wrong, but don't count on him to do it again.

2nd) Nobody dislikes Peja more than me. But he's still one of the greatest shooters, not only of this generation, but of all-time. He wouldn't even be in the NBA if it wasn't for his jumpshot. He's a former MVP candidate and 2-time All-Star because of it and mostly nothing else. Honestly, what other part of Peja's game can be called dangerous and could be attributed to his sucess?
SI even had an article on him a few years ago calling him "the best pure marksmen since Larry Bird".

So to say that Martin, based on one shooting display, is better than a proven shooter like Peja is kind of crazy IMO.

 

[Padrino]

Kevin Martin a better shooter than Stojakovic?

absolutely ridiculous.

1st) What makes a player a good shooter is consistency. Not how great he was at one given moment. It's how many times he can duplicate that effort. That 83% from downtown is impressive but it's nothing more than somebody being hot. It doesn't mean much because Kevin could probably never duplicate if ever. Kind of like when Rasheed hit countless 3s in a row from his left hand in practice. Really impressive don't get me wrong, but don't count on him to do it again.

2nd) Nobody dislikes Peja more than me. But he's still one of the greatest shooters, not only of this generation, but of all-time. He wouldn't even be in the NBA if it wasn't for his jumpshot. He's a former MVP candidate and 2-time All-Star because of it and mostly nothing else. Honestly, what other part of Peja's game can be called dangerous and could be attributed to his sucess?
SI even had an article on him a few years ago calling him "the best pure marksmen since Larry Bird".

So to say that Martin, based on one shooting display, is better than a proven shooter like Peja is kind of crazy IMO.

i agree. thing is, it really depends on how you want to classify "better shooter." if better shooter simply means a higher percentage, then yes, peja is better than most. but if it means hitting the shots that matter, then you can pretty much count peja out. nick van exel, with the mavericks, destroyed the kings from beyond the arc in the playoffs a coupla years ago--when it mattered. brent barry hit the shot that cost the kings a road victory in the playoffs--when it mattered. boris diaw hit the big shot last night in game 1 of the western conference finals--again, when it mattered. is martin there yet? no. but he did hit a big shot when it mattered against the spurs in game 4. more importantly, he made the big play when it mattered by very smartly streaking up court, beatin every single player with both his foot speed and determination. now, some players like peja aren't gifted with foot speed, but he is gifted with one of the best shots in the nba. however, we can drone on and on about who the best "pure shooter" is in the nba today, but i say "who cares?" it doesn't matter if you aren't making a difference when it matters.

 

[VF21]

chaps - I don't think ANYONE is saying Martin is a better shooter. The article was pretty specific. It said on that one day in that one place Kevin Martin WAS better than Peja...

Petrie told me that they chart every shot a player shoots, from warm-ups to the 1 on 1 games. Kevin shot an eye-popping 83%!! Even better than the previous record holder for Kings' workouts, some guy named Peja.

That's pretty interesting, regardless of how you may feel right now. And we haven't seen the best Martin can do. I'm not going to say he's better than Peja at shooting, but who knows if he'll eventually be the better all-around player? Time will tell.

EDIT: I know it's TDOS, but I absolutely love how people put misleading titles on threads just to see how many responses they'll get.

 

[chaps]

K-Mart a better all around player one day than Peja? It could happen. Time will tell, who knows.

 

[Prophetess]

because ya'll made me curious. current head to head matchup

Kevin Martin (year 2, right?)
Sacramento Kings
Position: G
Height: 6-7 Weight: 185
College : Western Carolina
Player file | Team stats

2005-06 Statistics
PPG 10.8
RPG 3.6
APG 1.3
SPG .76
BPG .13
FG% .480
FT% .847
3P% .369
MPG 26.6

Peja Stojakovic (year 7?)
Indiana Pacers
Position: F-G
Height: 6-10 Weight: 229
From : Serbia & Montenegro
Player file | Team stats

2005-06 Statistics
PPG 18.2
RPG 5.8
APG 1.9
SPG .63
BPG .14
FG% .437
FT% .915
3P% .401
MPG 36.6

while martin is not there yet, I believe the potential for him is enormous.

 

[zo0mmike]

Check out the 2nd year stats for both players, very similar...

KM
05-06 Statistics
PPG 10.8
RPG 3.6
APG 1.3
SPG .76
BPG .13
FG% .480
FT% .847
3P% .369
MPG 26.6

Peja
99-00 Statistics
PPG 11.9
RPG 3.7
APG 1.4
SPG .70
BPG .09
FG% .448
FT% .882
3P% .375
MPG 23.6

 

[LPKingsFan]

Check out the 2nd year stats for both players, very similar...

KM
05-06 Statistics
PPG 10.8
RPG 3.6
APG 1.3
SPG .76
BPG .13
FG% .480
FT% .847
3P% .369
MPG 26.6

Peja
99-00 Statistics
PPG 11.9
RPG 3.7
APG 1.4
SPG .70
BPG .09
FG% .448
FT% .882
3P% .375
MPG 23.6

Great find.

 

[Bricklayer]

Kevin is not a better shooter than Peja.

Kevin is not a better player than Peja (yet, and likely ever -- would have to become a perennial All-Star).

This is all very stupid.

 

[Venom]

Kevin is not a better shooter than Peja.

Kevin is not a better player than Peja (yet, and likely ever -- would have to become a perennial All-Star).

This is all very stupid.

Is Peja a perennial All-Star?

 

[SacTownKid]

I don't know if I ever see Kevin becoming the shooter Peja is, not unless he can speed up his release. Peja has that lightening quick release, and Kevin will eventually have problems if he is asked to play a Peja type role. But, Kevin is obviously more gifted in just about every other area.

 

[AleksandarN]

I do not think he will reach Pedja's level in shooting but I see Kevin being a more athletic version of RIP. They(Pip and Kevin) are pretty much similar right now.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Peja was never a high percentage mid-range shooter. But Martin isn't even close to Peja as far as beyond the arc is concerned. Peja is almost automatic from there.

automatic during the regular season. we need playoff performers

 

[Bricklayer]

Is Peja a perennial All-Star?

He made it three times and was 20 in the bank. Logicially to be better Kevin woiuld have to be a step above that -- i.e. a true perennial go every year player type. And gee aren't we at that point just getting a TAD ahead of ourselves?

 

[Venom]

He made it three times and was 20 in the bank. Logicially to be better Kevin woiuld have to be a step above that -- i.e. a true perennial go every year player type. And gee aren't we at that point just getting a TAD ahead of ourselves?

Yes, fair enough. I didn't remember Peja making that many All-Star teams and was too lazy to look it up. Then again, I would probably be floored today by how many All-Star teams Richmond actually made, whereas back then I thought he wasn't getting enough respect. It's weird how the last couple years colors everything with these guys. At least for me.

 

[John Galt]

Kevin Martin is to Peja as John Whisenant is to ?????

 

[twocents]

Kevin is not a better shooter than Peja.

Kevin is not a better player than Peja (yet, and likely ever -- would have to become a perennial All-Star).

This is all very stupid.

thank you!

 

[ParniValjak]

Kevin is not a better shooter than Peja.

Kevin is not a better player than Peja (yet, and likely ever -- would have to become a perennial All-Star).

This is all very stupid.

Well said.

 

[piksi]

Kevin is not a better shooter than Peja.

Kevin is not a better player than Peja (yet, and likely ever -- would have to become a perennial All-Star).

This is all very stupid.

good to see that there is still some sanity around here