Keon Ellis

The_Jamal said:
And I'm fairly certain if he signs for the QO, that he doesn't have bird rights anymore? And that doesn't transfer to his new team? So he'd be damn hard to trade in December as was reported earlier.

It's pretty clear he's just not going to resign a long-term deal with the Warriors. That seems completely off the table. So from their perspective, do they want to drag this out into the season? Or just be done with it and be able to move on?
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Player needs three years of service but their current contract carries over for Bird calculations. Dubs would have Bird rights but they wouldn’t transfer in a trade.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Player needs three years of service but their current contract carries over for Bird calculations. Dubs would have Bird rights but they wouldn’t transfer in a trade.
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This is correct, but it's not that the current contract carries over, this is only a feature of one-year contracts. For example, if a player initially signed a one-year deal in 2023, then signed a two-year deal with the same team in 2024, if untraded he would have full Bird rights with his old team in 2026; but if traded in the 2025 season, his new team would enjoy full Bird rights in 2026, not Early Bird rights as the 2-year contract he is currently on would seem to indicate.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
This is correct, but it's not that the current contract carries over, this is only a feature of one-year contracts. For example, if a player initially signed a one-year deal in 2023, then signed a two-year deal with the same team in 2024, if untraded he would have full Bird rights with his old team in 2026; but if traded in the 2025 season, his new team would enjoy full Bird rights in 2026, not Early Bird rights as the 2-year contract he is currently on would seem to indicate.
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I didn't know that.
Google AI (yeah, I know, I know) told me that if a player signed a 1+1 while on Bird rights they would lose them in a trade. Is that accurate?
 
pdxKingsFan said:
I didn't know that.
Google AI (yeah, I know, I know) told me that if a player signed a 1+1 while on Bird rights they would lose them in a trade. Is that accurate?
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Yes.
Let me quote the CBA and clean up a bit of the legalese. (Brackets are me changing the language, ellipsis skips over a minor irrelevance here, parentheses are in original)
A player (other than a Two-Way Player) with a one-year Contract (excluding any Option Year) who would [have Bird Rights at the end of the contract] cannot be traded without the player’s consent ... [if] the player is traded (except if the Contract has an Option for the second year that was exercised prior to the trade), then, for purposes of determining whether the player [qualifies for Bird Rights] the player shall be considered as having changed Teams by means of signing a [free agent contract].
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So the only exception there is if the second year option is exercised before the trade.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
Yes.
Let me quote the CBA and clean up a bit of the legalese. (Brackets are me changing the language, ellipsis skips over a minor irrelevance here, parentheses are in original)

So the only exception there is if the second year option is exercised before the trade.
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Oh I did know about that consent clause.
 
Tetsujin said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1950278084172919287
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Lets face the facts, the players would probably all welcome an exit at this point lol. Running it back plain and simple would have kept the Kings under the radar, doing anything has the Kings getting killed and grilled out there right now even if it doesn't happen. Can't believe the Kings are now back to MLE older PG's, mid 30's signing, and looking to dump young talent. This couldn't possibly rewind back to 20017-20 could it? Dang.
 
Jdbraver137 said:
The only way this team could possibly get better is by betting on a 22yo Kuminga. And it needs to happen or this roster will just not make any sense.
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I don’t see how he makes any sense with the other shooters around him. There probably needs to be 3-4 more moves to make it all make sense.
 
sactowndog said:
I think most likely Kuminga takes the qualifying offer and we try to sign next year.
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We're probably not going to have any cap space next year, so it seems like a bad plan. As mentioned in the other thread, Kuminga seems to find Sac an attractive option, and the Warriors are likely dithering over protections on the pick. If we cave in and give an unprotected pick, they may actually make the move rather than have themselves stuck with an unhappy Kuminga for a year and then lose him for nothing.

I think Kuminga is a good gamble - not guaranteeing he'll be a star, but a good gamble. And given that he's younger than Clifford, he's really "basically" a draft pick if we sign him for four years (OK, more expensive), so giving away a draft pick for him really isn't a big deal.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
We're probably not going to have any cap space next year, so it seems like a bad plan. As mentioned in the other thread, Kuminga seems to find Sac an attractive option, and the Warriors are likely dithering over protections on the pick. If we cave in and give an unprotected pick, they may actually make the move rather than have themselves stuck with an unhappy Kuminga for a year and then lose him for nothing.

I think Kuminga is a good gamble - not guaranteeing he'll be a star, but a good gamble. And given that he's younger than Clifford, he's really "basically" a draft pick if we sign him for four years (OK, more expensive), so giving away a draft pick for him really isn't a big deal.
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I'll take this a step further; Kuminga is the exact gamble the Kings should be making. Get the guy with promise and upside BEFORE he explodes and costs a fortune. The established star trade doesn't help a team that's in the middle; because you have to gut your team to go get that guy. Think like a Jaylen Brown/Darius Garland. Awesome players, but the cost to get them pretty much keeps you right where you're at in terms of strength.
 
The_Jamal said:
I'll take this a step further; Kuminga is the exact gamble the Kings should be making. Get the guy with promise and upside BEFORE he explodes and costs a fortune. The established star trade doesn't help a team that's in the middle; because you have to gut your team to go get that guy. Think like a Jaylen Brown/Darius Garland. Awesome players, but the cost to get them pretty much keeps you right where you're at in terms of strength.
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But it is a gamble for sure. Starting a rebuild with potentially Keon, Keegan, and Kuminga making 50% of the cap puts the Kings behind the 8 ball in further improving the roster. Also, if teams are kind of balking at paying Kuminga 30 a year that could end up in a bad way contractually yet again. If Vivek is refusing to do this the right way then this is a better gamble than past scenarios though.
 
SacTownKid said:
But it is a gamble for sure. Starting a rebuild with potentially Keon, Keegan, and Kuminga making 50% of the cap puts the Kings behind the 8 ball in further improving the roster. Also, if teams are kind of balking at paying Kuminga 30 a year that could end up in a bad way contractually yet again. If Vivek is refusing to do this the right way then this is a better gamble than past scenarios though.
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The reported offer is like 4/90 for Kuminga I believe. So 23ish or so. Assume like 18ish for Keon and assume somewhere around the Jabari extension for Keegan, so like 25ish?

None of that is unreasonable at all. You're not paying any of these guys the max extensions and these are all the guys that should be getting 30+ MPG anyway.. which you have to pay for
 
The_Jamal said:
The reported offer is like 4/90 for Kuminga I believe. So 23ish or so. Assume like 18ish for Keon and assume somewhere around the Jabari extension for Keegan, so like 25ish?

None of that is unreasonable at all. You're not paying any of these guys the max extensions and these are all the guys that should be getting 30+ MPG anyway.. which you have to pay for
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But the Kings are going to have to wait out these other deals. This is probably still at best a '27 kick off point unless the Kings are winning from day 1. Maybe they could do a front loaded deal? If the Kings are still short a superstar then you better plan on most of whatever cap is left getting used there IF you can even get a player that way. We've seen the corner cutting before and it all has to land just right when a team does that. The most interesting thing about it would be what LaVine and Kuminga look like. That would easily be one of the most skilled and athletic G/F combos in the league. They do some very similar things on and off the ball.
 
SacTownKid said:
But the Kings are going to have to wait out these other deals. This is probably still at best a '27 kick off point unless the Kings are winning from day 1. Maybe they could do a front loaded deal? If the Kings are still short a superstar then you better plan on most of whatever cap is left getting used there IF you can even get a player that way. We've seen the corner cutting before and it all has to land just right when a team does that. The most interesting thing about it would be what LaVine and Kuminga look like. That would easily be one of the most skilled and athletic G/F combos in the league. They do some very similar things on and off the ball.
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I mean you can't just wait for a superstar to fall in your lap. Not everyone gets the 1% luck chance like the Mavericks to get Flagg. And I think the idea here is that we'd give this a real shot for a year or 2 with LaVine/Domas at the head and then look to move them if it doesn't work... while Keon/Keegan/Kuminga/Nique headline the next good Kings team. Or if Vivek ever signs off on a real rebuild, then those are all pieces you can move for a ton of draft assets.
 
SacTownKid said:
But the Kings are going to have to wait out these other deals. This is probably still at best a '27 kick off point unless the Kings are winning from day 1. Maybe they could do a front loaded deal? If the Kings are still short a superstar then you better plan on most of whatever cap is left getting used there IF you can even get a player that way. We've seen the corner cutting before and it all has to land just right when a team does that. The most interesting thing about it would be what LaVine and Kuminga look like. That would easily be one of the most skilled and athletic G/F combos in the league. They do some very similar things on and off the ball.
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Can't do a front loaded deal because of the BYC rules.
 
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