Kenny Thomas= Sixth Man of the Year

[ParniValjak]

Before we got SAR, Kenny was not a "move at all costs" until/unless we picked up another PF, because he was the best we had. And if we had pciked up a Reggie Evans or whatnot, he still wouldn't have been a move at all costs because there still would have been a lot of minutes leftover, some of our toughness issues wouold have been addressed etc. Still think it would have been a good idea to move him, but not a move at all costs.

But now things have changed. All summer long people on here have been completely ignoring the teams needs in favor of a fantasy basketball approach to things where you add up the numbers and go -- ooh, good team! But now we are significantly formed. Probably at least. I take it as a given that when you pick up two significant players in the offseason, that they we be there in the fall. And the "core" was putatively untouchable, although that is not a sure thing. So now much of the uncertaintly has been resolved. The starting lineup is likely set. That makes it VERY easy to tell what we have, and what we don't have and therefore need form the bench. And what we need from the bench is defense, size up front, shotblocking etc. Its not there in the starting lineup, assuming this remains the starting lineup. So it has to come from the bench or we're just not going to have it at all. And those things are not KT. If Reggie Evans is your starter, than KT can come off the bench and be a scoring change of pace -- give you something you do not get from the starter. If SAR is your starter, and eating up huge minutes as he will, then KT adds nothing, patches no holes, may not be getting enough minutes to stay happy, and certainly not enough to justify that contract.

And so yes, given the bloated contracts, the limited usefulness for us, and indeed the possibility to actively get in the way if they get minutes over the defensive types we need, Corliss and KT should be gone. And certainly one of them as there is no way now they both get minutes. That was the "flexibility doctrine" from the beginning anyway. They are the last significant trade pieces we have without breaking up the starting lineup. I wouldn't mind if we did do that, but if we're not, and if we really do want to even be pretenders to a title, we need to use KT and Corliss to try to bring back a player or players who DO patch our weaknesses, give us those things we currently lack.

Well said Brick

 

[kingsofnba]

The 6th Man of the Year award is kind of the realm of the tweeners. With the exception of Aaron McKie in 2001, you have Ben Gordon (1/2), Antawn Jamsion (3/4), Bobby Jackson (1/2), Corliss (3/4) and Rodney Rodgers (3/4). I'd say KT has as much a chance as any of those other tweeners.

nbrans, good point...

adelman always gives 1 or 2 players the bulk of the reserve minutes... who else off the bench do you think adelman would use for 20-25min/game??? KT, provided he is not traded, is the type of player that adelman loves to play big minutes... KT can score, pass and rebound... and he is a proven scorer in the league... if adelman wanted someone who can come off the bench and block some shots and play good D, then ostertag would had been the 6th man last year, instead of being buried on the bench....

as far as the argument that the kings needs has suddenly changed, i think that is unfounded... the kings have ALWAY, ALWAYS been a very , very good offensive team EVERY year... and the kings have ALWAYS, ALWAYS needed more defense... but adelman ALWAYS likes to play the players that can score and pass, like KT... what makes you think adelman will suddenly change his philosophy???

 

[Kings113]

Ostertag wasn't in shape all season... and came to training camp out of shape too, supposedly.

That's a very weak example.

Mo/Skinner aren't offensive masters or anything and they got good time when not starting. Similar for Corliss and Barnes.

KT while I like him a lot, don't really see him here next season because of his situation now.

 

[kingsofnba]

KT while I like him a lot, don't really see him here next season because of his situation now.

everyone seems to forget that trading KT for anybody that will be more productive than him is very slim... he still has 5 years and $35mil left on his contract, so to trade him, the kings will either have to take back an equally ugly contract or package him with one of the core players... it will be very difficult to trade KT away because of his contract, therefore i fully expect KT to be a king and a very good contributor this year...

 

[ParniValjak]

nbrans, good point...

adelman always gives 1 or 2 players the bulk of the reserve minutes... who else off the bench do you think adelman would use for 20-25min/game??? KT, provided he is not traded, is the type of player that adelman loves to play big minutes... KT can score, pass and rebound... and he is a proven scorer in the league... if adelman wanted someone who can come off the bench and block some shots and play good D, then ostertag would had been the 6th man last year, instead of being buried on the bench....

as far as the argument that the kings needs has suddenly changed, i think that is unfounded... the kings have ALWAY, ALWAYS been a very , very good offensive team EVERY year... and the kings have ALWAYS, ALWAYS needed more defense... but adelman ALWAYS likes to play the players that can score and pass, like KT... what makes you think adelman will suddenly change his philosophy???

Actually thats a bit of a flawed argument. Adelman like hustle as much as the next guy. He also likes bangers. If he doesn't why did he give Pollard extended minutes when he was here? Why did Skinner play significant minutes with us??????

Adelman likes his bench to be versatile. He likes players that can play mulitple positions. This allows him to use 8 or 9 man rotation that he likes. With the kings he always had Bobby Jackson (1/2), Hedo (2/3/4) and Pollard (4/5). He would give plenty of minutes to those blokes. They all had defensive side to their game and Bobby and Hedo has a good effensive game.

At the moment KT is no man's land. He is undersized 4 and not a very good 3. He could see some minutes in our system only because you we have Bonzi and SAR who could both pinch hit at 3 if KT is in the game.

Petrie and Adelman have talked all off-season how we need to get taller and more athletic in the frontcourt. KT is athletic but he is not tall. They like him and he could fit in well offensively into our system. Do the like him enough to keep him (with his monsterous contract) now that they kave SAR??????? Well thats something we are yet to find out. He could very well stay but considering that Kings want to get some cap flexibility to re-sign Peja and maybe Bonzi, then I doubt they would keep Kenny if they can help it.

 

[kingsofnba]

Actually thats a bit of a flawed argument. Adelman like hustle as much as the next guy. He also likes bangers. If he doesn't why did he give Pollard extended minutes when he was here? Why did Skinner play significant minutes with us??????

Adelman likes his bench to be versatile. He likes players that can play mulitple positions. This allows him to use 8 or 9 man rotation that he likes. With the kings he always had Bobby Jackson (1/2), Hedo (2/3/4) and Pollard (4/5). He would give plenty of minutes to those blokes. They all had defensive side to their game and Bobby and Hedo has a good effensive game.

At the moment KT is no man's land. He is undersized 4 and not a very good 3. He could see some minutes in our system only because you we have Bonzi and SAR who could both pinch hit at 3 if KT is in the game.

Petrie and Adelman have talked all off-season how we need to get taller and more athletic in the frontcourt. KT is athletic but he is not tall. They like him and he could fit in well offensively into our system. Do the like him enough to keep him (with his monsterous contract) now that they kave SAR??????? Well thats something we are yet to find out. He could very well stay but considering that Kings want to get some cap flexibility to re-sign Peja and maybe Bonzi, then I doubt they would keep Kenny if they can help it.

why does everyone assume that KT can't play the SF??? he used to play both PF and SF at every other team he played on... just because the kings needed him at PF exclusively last year, doesn't mean he can't play SF... i think he is athletic enough to play well at backup SF and PF....

also KT's contract will be very difficult to move in a trade... at 5years, $35mil left on his contract, KT contract will be the hardest to move out of the philly 3... even if GP tried to trade him, he probably wouldn't get back anything better in trade... probably would only get another bad contract (ie. mark blount), or a very old player with a shorter contract (i.e. PJ Brown)... otherwise, to move him, the kings will need to package him with a core player, which is unlikely...

 

[Kings113]

everyone seems to forget that trading KT for anybody that will be more productive than him is very slim... he still has 5 years and $35mil left on his contract, so to trade him, the kings will either have to take back an equally ugly contract or package him with one of the core players... it will be very difficult to trade KT away because of his contract, therefore i fully expect KT to be a king and a very good contributor this year...

k.

But I wonder how he feels about the situation now, will he stick to his "okay with being in active rotation" or "I'm a starter, I don't want to come off the bench.". I never even saw the first said anywhere, just someone said he said it on here. I'd hope he would adjust and adapt and accept the first if he's gonna stay.

The situation right now, isn't in the catergory of "fully expected to stay". Not saying he's fully expected to be going, but that it is up in the air.

PJ Brown or Mark Blount, I'd dig either coming to Sac in general, and would address our needs at back-up center.

 

[slugking50]

Well I guess we will certainly know if KT was serious about his rants about not wanting to come off the bench. I think he was serious. So I hope Petrie will make a move before things blowup.

 

[Jkbiker]

I think Rick's rep for playing an 8 man rotation is based upon having that third man behind the starters that can play 2 positions and can play at a starter level of play. The Three man rotations in the past he really seemed to like such as (Webber,Vlade,Miller), (Doug, Bibby, Bobby) were all good 3 man rotations. Im sure there are lots of others. Not sure we have any other Bench players that can and deserve extended back-up minutes as a third man. Lets look at the bench:

Skinner - nice back up has some defense capabilities, (was a fan favorite before he jammed his thumbs) but lacks the offense to swing between C-PF

Corliss - ok back up to Peja, but not a good choice at C or PF (we all saw that ugly small ball due to injurys)

Martin/Garcia - still not sure Rick will even play these guys a lot unless they really impress in camp. My guess which ever impresses coach the most will get letover Bonzi min.

Hart - nice limited back up to Bibby, but used a a SG?, not likely

Gee that leaves only K Thomas as the only real bench player that you might want to give extended minutes as a swing player. Since Skinner is only real option at Center for back up (sorry Jamal but you will prob be injury insur)
That would leave KT as only player I would give the extended minutes to.
Lets see as a SF vs Corliss? Corliss is tougher, but KT can shoot better, good rebounder, quicker to Corliss.

Based on the above, I see a 9 man rotation evolving with Shareef,Peja, KT
at PF,SF.

with Skinner C, Martin SG, Hart PG as being the 7,8,9

Therefore KT will have the minutes, If he accepts the role, I think that with the reserve SG, C, and PG, We will need to have the two scoring option forwards the entire game.

Would love to see KT step up his scoring and rebounding and really be a 6th man for the Kings. We will need one with Bobby gone.

 

[Jkbiker]

And as a footnote to the above


Our Injury Reserve would be

C,pf - Sampson
Sf - Corliss
SG - martin or Garcia
PG - Price

Not bad injury reserve either

 

[thesanityannex]

Well I guess we will certainly know if KT was serious about his rants about not wanting to come off the bench. I think he was serious. So I hope Petrie will make a move before things blowup.

I guess we will see if he was serious about his rants about being in the active rotation. I think he was serious. KT is not moveable at this point, he is too valueable off the bench.

 

[Bricklayer]

Skinner - nice back up has some defense capabilities, (was a fan favorite before he jammed his thumbs) but lacks the offense to swing between C-PF

I'm still trying to track down the initial source of this "PF must have offense" myth, but whereever it came from, it flies in the face of our own history. Anybody remember a big fella by the name of Pollard who was the primary PF/C backup straight through our best years?

 

[Kings113]

Yeah, I agree Brick.

KT isn't untradeable. His situation is really an unknown I'd say. I'd be happy if he stays.

 

[thesanityannex]

I'm still trying to track down the initial source of this "PF must have offense" myth, but whereever it came from, it flies in the face of our own history. Anybody remember a big fella by the name of Pollard who was the primary PF/C backup straight through our best years?

I'd take another Pollard type as long as it didn't come with ponytails.

 

[Jkbiker]

I'm still trying to track down the initial source of this "PF must have offense" myth, but whereever it came from, it flies in the face of our own history. Anybody remember a big fella by the name of Pollard who was the primary PF/C backup straight through our best years?

Sure Pollard was a great backup c/pf for us back then, but our other backup PF was Fundy who saw ltd minutes behind webber. I guess my point is if you are going to a 3 man rotation for two positions, you use the best all around player to do so, that is why you shorten the rotation to get your best players more minutes. I feel KT is a better all around player than Skinner, If KT was not there, and Skinner was the best pf/c we had as back up, then yeah would let him be the third of a pf/c rotation.

I feel Skinner will do just fine behind Miller, but not good enough over all to take minutes from KT

Where I do feel KT is good enough to take minutes from Corliss

 

[Kings113]

Skinner won't be behind Miller.

 

[Jkbiker]

Skinner won't be behind Miller.

Given our current roster
Then who would? samson?
If Skinner plays behind Shareef
then where would KT play? behind Peja?

A assume you mean there will be other moves involving KT

 

[Kings113]

Yeah, I was talking in off-season/by the fall terms. Not by the current roster.

It's quite certain Petrie isn't just going to sit back and do nothing the rest of this off-season, when there are 2 months + left.

I think there'll be at most 2 new players (maybe 3, but that's a big stretch), and 1 or 2 of the East 3 elsewhere. Possibility of Songaila too.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Skinner won't be behind Miller.

Well I for one hope not. I would prefer to see a more legitamte center brought in, but untill or unless a real center is brought in I'll take Skinner over Samson, that is unless Samson has some how transformed since the last time I saw him doing his NBA player impression sporting Laker togs.

 

[KingsChamps06]

Kenny thomas is not worth 36 mil!!!!! Get rid of him!

 

[VF21]

^^Wow. Why didn't anyone else ever think of that?

What are you proposing? A yard sale? e-Bay? Putting him in a big box and leaving him on someone's doorstep?

 

[KingsRNumba1]

Kenny Thomas is okay;he did help the Kings win a few games last season, but during he was not very effective in the Seattle series.

 

[Kings113]

Because Seattle had Evans/James/Fortson/Collison/Potapenko.

While we had injured Miller/Skinner, one good game from Ostertag, Songaila.