Kenny Thomas= Sixth Man of the Year

kingsofnba · Aug 17, 2005

i am hoping the kings don't trade KT, because i predict he will win the sixth man of the year award... the more i think about it, KT is a lot better option than most of the other big forwards that might be Realistically available in trade... i am really hoping that KT stays a King (unless the kings can get a young stud PF in return) and accepts a new role as the kings 6th man....

with bobby jax gone, the kings will need a player that can provide instant offense and energy off the bench... looking at last years games where KT came off the bench, he did some pretty good scoring and rebounding... and going against other teams backup PF/SF, he should be able to dominate them... now if he is the main guy backing up PF and SF, he will get his 25-29min/game...

i predict that he will embrace his new role and will avg. about 14pts/ 8rebs/ 2.5ast per game and win the Sixth Man of the Year Award!!!

Bricklayer · Aug 17, 2005

1) because the two guys ahead of him are MAJOR minute players, its unlikely KT can get enough minutes to be in the running for 6th man of the year. It will be hard to get him 20 mpg unless somebody gets hurt. Rahim cannot swing to center (please god don't let Rick even try that) and Peja has never swung down to OG since his first year or two with us. In fact its more likely that Bonzi swings up and eats some SF minutes than the other way around. So with two 36-40 min starters, and lots of other reserve options, unlikely.

2) 6th man award winners are normally dynamic game changers, not solid all around guys. KT likely is just not dynamic enough.

3) There is no guarantee that we will even try him at SF. If he's a pure PF behind a durable major minute PF..well, in that case we really should trade him. 10mpg isn't going to keep him happy.

4) Our team has changed, and so has our needs. Bobby was very valuble because he was the right fit -- a burst of offense and energy off the bench to carry us through those times when the main guns were sitting -- Webb, Peja, Bibby as the #3. In fact Bobby was really probably our third most dynamic offensive option. But this current team is different, with so many scorers, and with all of those scorers probably scoring/shooting les than they are capable of because of the competion for shots, another guy coming in off the bench firing is not what's needed. Bobby was a great 6th man because he gave our former team things it otherwise lacked. KT will NOT be a great 6th man for the Kings precisely because he duplicates what we already have. Can be a solid bencher. But there will not be that big change of pace *pop!* when he enters the game. Just more of the same.

BibityBobtyBoom · Aug 17, 2005

i predict the seahawks will win the superbowl every year, but that never happens either. Shucks!

OptimusRhyme · Aug 17, 2005

Yah he wont get enough minutes, prolly wont be able to pull off 20 a game.

kingsofnba · Aug 17, 2005

Bricklayer said:

i have to disagree with your assesment of KT...

1) we all know adelman and he likes to give minutes to players that can score and pass... i think he will give KT every opportunity to get as many minutes behind SAR and Peja... with SAR probably getting 30-33min/game and peja 32-36min/game... that would leave around 25-30 minutes for a quality backup like KT... since when does adelman try to "change the pace" with his reserves... usually he wants players that can continue the flow of the game, players that score and pass, like KT.... and you know that adelman usually has an 8-9 man rotation, so KT will probably get the majority of the forward rotation minutes....

2) Sixth man of the year is not always "game changers"... it usually goes to the 6th man who score the most off the bench... corliss won the 6th man in 2001-02, and i wouldn't classify him as a "game changer" or "dynamic"... he was a very solid scorer off the bench...

3) KT has played SF in the NBA and has proven he can play well at SF... just because he didn't play the SF last year, because we needed him at PF, doesn't mean he can't play SF for the kings...

4) adelman will play whoever can keep the game flowing... since when does adelman try to "change the pace" with his reserves???... if adelman wanted "change of pace" players, Otag would had been the 6th man last year... do you think adelman would had played bobby so much if he couldn't score and pass???? no, of course not.... bobby brought defense, passing and offense off the bench.... KT will provide rebounding, passing and offense.... the common thread in all of adelmans 6th man is that they can score and pass... kings have ALWAYS, ALWAYS had a potent offense and bjax was the sixth man... why would adelman change his philosophy about 6th man and needing offense now???

therefore, i still think that KT will be a very valuable player and a very good canidate for 6th man of the year

PFFFT!! · Aug 17, 2005

Pfffft, this argument is pointless, we all know Adelman is going to keep his starters playing 40+ minutes until they physically and emotionally break down at the end of the year. I forsee Bonzy and SAR getting 40 to 45 minutes a game as well. Great strategy coach :\

nbrans · Aug 17, 2005

kingsofnba said:

I agree with you, I think that Adelman will find minutes for Kenny Thomas, he's too good to be sitting on the bench.

I actually think that Kenny Thomas has the tools to be a "game changer." If he's playing 20 minutes a game and embraces his role, he has the athleticism to come off the bench and bang and score and rebound in bursts and energize the team in the way that Bobby Jackson did. I liked the way he played behind Songaila before he became the regular starter, and I'm really hoping that he makes the 6th Man Award his goal.

P.S. Btw, I HOPE he's unhappy with not starting and is angry that SAR is the presumed starter and is dedicated to getting his starting job back. As long as he sticks to the team concept, battling for a spot is going to make him better and it's going to push SAR to be better.

Kings113 · Aug 17, 2005

With SAR coming in, I think his situation with this team is in some jeopardy. Like I've said, if he stays I'd dig it and it'd add to our bench. But he has to stay to, apparently what he said "I'd be happy in the active rotation", I never even saw that though, or know when it was. He could be a 6MOTYC, but I don't know about that here...

I don't think the guy is untradeable. If we can get someone or more for him (w/ someone else if needed) who is good/solid and brings what we need, I'm for it. (Harpring or PJ Brown or Ely!

)

bigbadred00 · Aug 17, 2005

PFFFT!! said:

If things go like they do in the Past:

Peja-37 MPG
Bibby-37
Wells-35
Miller-37
SAR-34

Hart-15-1
KT-15-3/4
Skinner-10-4/5
Garcia-5-2/3
Martin-5-2/3
Corliss-10-3/4

I honestly don't see will see much of the rest of the team, although 11 deep ain't shabby and if anyone get's injured we actually have significantly good backups for all except Bibby (Skinner, KT proved themselves last year, Garcia and Martin can prove themselves this year and Hart is a pretty good backup PG).

Kings113 · Aug 17, 2005

PFFFT!! said:

I highly doubt they average that high....

AriesMar27 · Aug 17, 2005

i would hope that adelman reduces the minutes of the starters to about 30-33 minutes and gives the bench a serious chance to produce.....

Bricklayer · Aug 17, 2005

Kings113 said:

That was hyperbole I'm sure.

But all the starters should fall in the 35-40mpg range. Nobody's old, so there are no extra Vlade minutes. Nobody's young and dumb, so no extra JWill minutes. The entire bench COMBINED will be lucky to see 50-60min a game and until/unless our annual injury woes crop up will probably average among the fewest minutes of any NBA bench.

And an extension of that is also that there will be VERY few shots for the guys off the bench either. Last year, with a fast-paced high scoring offense we averaged 84 shots a game. That's quite high, and its unlikely we will be significantly above that this year. Our 5 starters alone could easily account for 70 shots between them (an average of only 14 per starter -- last year those 5 guys averaged 64 in a down year for reef and with Bonzi only playing 22min off the bench). That would leave a grand total of 14 shots a game for ALL of the bench guys together.

For the same reason Peja is not going to score 25 -- competition for shots with all the scoring teammates -- its unlikely any bencher is going to even be able to reach double figures. You figure a double figure scorer is normally going to take somewhere around 10 shots min.

kingsofnba · Aug 17, 2005

AriesMar27 said:

in 2001-02, when the kings were very deep, like this year... the top three reserves averages were bjax (23min/game), Hedo, (25min/game) and pollard (24min/game)... so i think that adelman will use his bench when it is deep and proven, like it is this year... adelman will find the minutes for KT, as he is the most dynamic, proven scorer off the bench and is also a very good rebounder...

PFFFT!! · Aug 17, 2005

Kings113 said:

Playing devils advocate

Bricklayer · Aug 17, 2005

kingsofnba said:

Rick didn't "find" minutes for guys that year so much as a) Vlade was aging and held down to 30mpg; and b) Webb, who led the team in minutes, only played in 54 games. That was our most organized "classic" bench year, when we had the eprfect 1/2, 2/3/4, 4/5 trio off the bench, but a lot of their minutes were cirumstantial.

This year we don't have the aging Vlade character, and let's hope we don't have the major injury character either.

nbrans · Aug 17, 2005

Bricklayer said:

Maybe a slightly more accurate model for a full bench with one-position specialists was back in the Bench Mob day. I don't know if Adelman intends to play the entire bench together at the same time as he did back in 00/01, but here are the numbers:

Webber - 40
Peja - 38
Christie - 36
Vlade - 30
JWill - 30
Bobby - 21
Pollard - 22
Hedo - 17
Barry - 16
Funderburke - 11

bigbadred00 · Aug 17, 2005

Problem is Jwill-->Bibby, Bibby plays more minutes, same with Brad in comparison to Vlade.

nbrans · Aug 17, 2005

bigbadred00 said:

It's not exact, it's more of a rough sketch of a 9 man rotation. In recent years the Kings have had a 7 or 8 man rotation. I'm guessing this next year the rotation will stretch to 10 because of the personnel on hand.

My own prediction is mostly on line with Brick's: starters will play about 35. Hart, Martin, Corliss, KT and Skinner will each get about 15. Garcia and Sampson will get the measly leftovers.

KiNgMyC · Aug 17, 2005

This post is really optimistic...there are many bench players more important to their respective teams then KT is to the Kings.

HndsmCelt · Aug 17, 2005

I may be partially responsable for this KT 6th man talk, as I speculated in other threds about that possiblity. While I stand by my assesmnt that Kenny has the tools and tallent to be a SMOYC, Brick may be right that the min are not there. I would however HOPE that 2 factors could/should change this. 1. IF Kenny really wnat to make lemonaide here he could/should focus on his defensive game. He is very quick and athetlic and while his size prevents him from being a significant shot blocker he can easily pick the pockets of forwards, snag defensive boards and stay in front of his man. IF Kenny can bring in STOPS on a team whoes defense is weak that could get as much notice/respect as his scoring. 2. IF RA were to take the long view on the season keeping his starters min down espcialy early on should translate into the 20+ min KT needs to be that impact player. Just immagine RA trying to motivate a petulant Pedja by... sitting him and playing KT... "immagine all the possiblitys."

BigSong · Aug 17, 2005

when you look at are starting 5 (assuming things stay as they are),theyre basically all scorers. i would imagine guys like skinner, Hart, and perhaps Garcia will see the majority of minutes.

SacTownKid · Aug 17, 2005

HndsmCelt said:

I may be partially responsable for this KT 6th man talk, as I speculated in other threds about that possiblity. While I stand by my assesmnt that Kenny has the tools and tallent to be a SMOYC, Brick may be right that the min are not there. I would however HOPE that 2 factors could/should change this. 1. IF Kenny really wnat to make lemonaide here he could/should focus on his defensive game. He is very quick and athetlic and while his size prevents him from being a significant shot blocker he can easily pick the pockets of forwards, snag defensive boards and stay in front of his man. IF Kenny can bring in STOPS on a team whoes defense is weak that could get as much notice/respect as his scoring. 2. IF RA were to take the long view on the season keeping his starters min down espcialy early on should translate into the 20+ min KT needs to be that impact player. Just immagine RA trying to motivate a petulant Pedja by... sitting him and playing KT... "immagine all the possiblitys."

One thing I know about Kenny is that he is a GREAT team defender. One of the reasons Philly liked him so much was b/c of that. Once this team gets eachother down on D then it will really show.

kingsofnba · Aug 17, 2005

SacTownKid said:

i think that is a point about KT game that is really underrated... he is very athletic and active on the defensive end of the court... he hustles for rebounds and is not afraid to lay down a hard foul... i think KT would abuse the opponents backups at PF/SF on offense and will be able to play good Defense on the backups also... i think adelman will find a way to get KT in the game for 20-25min/game....

Bricklayer · Aug 18, 2005

SacTownKid said:

I have absolutley no idea what you are talking about here. I mean none really.

He started for Philly for a year out of necessity, and was a pleasant surprise on the glass. However by year 2 they were tired of him, his contract was too big, he was too small, and the team continued to suck defensively. His team defense is unremarkable, not entirely because of lack of effort, but because once he gets to the point of attack there is little he can do.

All of that said, if he really was willingly moved to the bench as a backup 4/3, he might stand a better chance. His problme is that he does nto have NBA size at the 4, and the 6'11" monsters and 6'7" superathletic swingmen of the league use his head as a coaster to hold their drinks as their soar on by. Put him on the bench though, and he might have better matchups, and if he can actually play the 3 at all, might actually get a chance to look some of his opponents in the eye. He's still never going to be a "Great" anything on defense, but take away the physical mismatches and he's still a toughminded guy with enough attitude to at least try to play defense.

Still not what we need though. Nor are we really what he needs. The minutes just not there.

ParniValjak · Aug 18, 2005

Brick, so you want him (and Corliss

) moved just about at all costs??????

All I know is that we need a legit PF/C sized reserve instead of Kenny and if it means getting rid off Kenny's contract in the process I am ALL for it

Bricklayer · Aug 18, 2005

Čarolija said:

Before we got SAR, Kenny was not a "move at all costs" until/unless we picked up another PF, because he was the best we had. And if we had pciked up a Reggie Evans or whatnot, he still wouldn't have been a move at all costs because there still would have been a lot of minutes leftover, some of our toughness issues wouold have been addressed etc. Still think it would have been a good idea to move him, but not a move at all costs.

But now things have changed. All summer long people on here have been completely ignoring the teams needs in favor of a fantasy basketball approach to things where you add up the numbers and go -- ooh, good team! But now we are significantly formed. Probably at least. I take it as a given that when you pick up two significant players in the offseason, that they we be there in the fall. And the "core" was putatively untouchable, although that is not a sure thing. So now much of the uncertaintly has been resolved. The starting lineup is likely set. That makes it VERY easy to tell what we have, and what we don't have and therefore need form the bench. And what we need from the bench is defense, size up front, shotblocking etc. Its not there in the starting lineup, assuming this remains the starting lineup. So it has to come from the bench or we're just not going to have it at all. And those things are not KT. If Reggie Evans is your starter, than KT can come off the bench and be a scoring change of pace -- give you something you do not get from the starter. If SAR is your starter, and eating up huge minutes as he will, then KT adds nothing, patches no holes, may not be getting enough minutes to stay happy, and certainly not enough to justify that contract.

And so yes, given the bloated contracts, the limited usefulness for us, and indeed the possibility to actively get in the way if they get minutes over the defensive types we need, Corliss and KT should be gone. And certainly one of them as there is no way now they both get minutes. That was the "flexibility doctrine" from the beginning anyway. They are the last significant trade pieces we have without breaking up the starting lineup. I wouldn't mind if we did do that, but if we're not, and if we really do want to even be pretenders to a title, we need to use KT and Corliss to try to bring back a player or players who DO patch our weaknesses, give us those things we currently lack.

bigbadred00 · Aug 18, 2005

Dream Situation is KT and somebody for Chandler or Curry........odds of that happening are slim to none. Read somewhere Chandler might be getting Dalembert type money....so sick.

Kings113 · Aug 18, 2005

Highly agreed with Brick.

I mean as I've said, I'd be cool if KT stayed, but just think he could be had for a big man in a trade. Which we do need. Same for Corliss, but probably not alone, or for another player.

I still want James Jones or Harpring or Barnes over Corliss.

Kev.in · Aug 18, 2005

As long as Ricky Davis and/or Ben Gordon (+ a couple others) are coming off the bench again this season, Kenny doesn't stand a chance of winning it. I don't even envision him as being our 6th man, I think there'll be someone else coming off our bench to get more minutes and score more than him.

nbrans · Aug 18, 2005

The 6th Man of the Year award is kind of the realm of the tweeners. With the exception of Aaron McKie in 2001, you have Ben Gordon (1/2), Antawn Jamsion (3/4), Bobby Jackson (1/2), Corliss (3/4) and Rodney Rodgers (3/4). I'd say KT has as much a chance as any of those other tweeners.

Kenny Thomas= Sixth Man of the Year

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