Keep Ike Diogu? (split from low cost FA thread)

[Showtime]

I would love to avoid having a back up center that is 6'8". If/when the Kings resign Ike Diogu, I hope it is only with the intention of using him as the back-up PF. He should not ever play center unless the Kings are playing a super small ball team...

How tall is Nene? Isn't he 6'11' 250+? Go tell him that Ike can't play C. It's not necessarily the height of the player, but the arm reach, quickness of their jump, and the position they can gain from using their body. Just go ask Barkley, who was like 6'5'' and a beast inside. Quickness and timing gave Zo the shot blocking ability he had. Ben Wallace is 6'7''. Guys can get away with being 6'8'' inside if they use themselves correctly.

 

[kingsnation]

How tall is Nene? Isn't he 6'11' 250+? Go tell him that Ike can't play C. It's not necessarily the height of the player, but the arm reach, quickness of their jump, and the position they can gain from using their body. Just go ask Barkley, who was like 6'5'' and a beast inside. Quickness and timing gave Zo the shot blocking ability he had. Ben Wallace is 6'7''. Guys can get away with being 6'8'' inside if they use themselves correctly.

Nene is 3 inches taller than Ike.

and with Sir Charles, Big Ben and Zo... I won't even go there.

 

[Showtime]

and with Sir Charles, Big Ben and Zo... I won't even go there.

I wasn't comparing Ike to them overall, I was making the point that height isn't the most important factor if a guy has the body size, jumping, reach, and timing to compensate. Ike has the arm length and body size to work against taller centers.

 

[Bricklayer]

How tall is Nene? Isn't he 6'11' 250+? Go tell him that Ike can't play C. It's not necessarily the height of the player, but the arm reach, quickness of their jump, and the position they can gain from using their body. Just go ask Barkley, who was like 6'5'' and a beast inside. Quickness and timing gave Zo the shot blocking ability he had. Ben Wallace is 6'7''. Guys can get away with being 6'8'' inside if they use themselves correctly.

No -- Ike Diogu, folk hero that he is, can't play center. Especially not after teams decide to guard him. He's helpless as a pup on defense and the glass at that position. So is the rest of our roster of course. But I'd rather not cement that permanetly by hiring yet another midget to impersonate a big man. If you can't clog the middle and clean the glass as a C, just shoo. We've had enough of your kind around here.

 

[Bricklayer]

I wasn't comparing Ike to them overall, I was making the point that height isn't the most important factor if a guy has the body size, jumping, reach, and timing to compensate. Ike has the arm length and body size to work against taller centers.

You are comparing Ike to freakish legends. Those gusy are VERY rare. And Ike can't jump, which was an absolutely huge factor in the success of guys like Barkely and Wallace (not that Barkley could play center either mind you). They started 6'7", but by the time they finished their leap they were seven feet. Ike is 6'8" and stays 6'8".

 

[Showtime]

You are comparing Ike to freakish legends. Those gusy are VERY rare. And Ike can't jump, which was an absolutely huge factor in the success of guys like Barkely and Wallace (not that Barkley could play center either mind you). They started 6'7", but by the time they finished their leap they were seven feet. Ike is 6'8" and stays 6'8".

Try reading again. I wasn't comparing Ike directly to those players, but I was pointing out how a shorter guy can use himself to play inside. I didn't say Ike could jump, I said specifically that he had two things going for him: body size and arm reach. Ike may only be about 6'7'', but his arm reach is nearly 7'4''.

I'm not saying Ike is a full time legit starting center, only that the idea of him backing up JT and Hawes and playing some center in the rotation isn't out of the question, especially considering more teams like to play small.

 

[nbrans]

Ike should really only be in consideration for the Funderburke role -- there on the bench when you need some scoring punch at the 4. Anything beyond that is far overestimating what he can offer even in the best case scenario.

Even if Diogu were re-signed this team still needs a backup center that can clog the lane, rebound, and block some shots. Fesenko (if the Jazz decide against picking up his option) or Gortat would work fine in that role.

 

[Kings Faithful]

I tell you what... Ike has one hell of a shot...at the very least, I doubt that is a fluke. He was confident in shooting those outside jumpers (even a 3!) and he made them every time. That confidence tells me it wasn't just a two time occurence. We should consider signing him...he can be like our unguardable 6' 7" secret weapon... haha.

 

[Smills91]

I like Ike. I think he can definitely contribute and play a role as a back-up big. He seems to complement both Thompson and Hawes well. We really could use a BANGER off the bench. He's skilled offensively, and pretty darn good rebounder. I'm not too worried about his height, as a bench player. He also has a decent wingspan to help make up for the top of his head height(which is rather overrated). So yeah, I'd bring him back, but on the QO there would have to be some other maneuvers made first, otherwise I'd try to re-sign him at a reduced rate.

 

[rainmaker]

NO WAY

I head jason Ross on khtk after the draft lottery on tuesday night talking about how since we won't get Griffin now is a great opportunity for Diogu. It just made me more depressed. There is a reason Ike wasn't in the rotation in GS and Portland, as well as here.

SAVE THE MONEY FOR SOMEONE ELSE!

 

[Showtime]

NO WAY

I head jason Ross on khtk after the draft lottery on tuesday night talking about how since we won't get Griffin now is a great opportunity for Diogu. It just made me more depressed. There is a reason Ike wasn't in the rotation in GS and Portland, as well as here.

SAVE THE MONEY FOR SOMEONE ELSE!

Yeah, there's a reason. When was the last time Nelly used a post player as a main part of his offense? Why would he try to develop a player who he won't ever use?

In Indy, he played behind guys like Jermaine Oneal and Al Harrington.

In Portland, he didn't get much time because he was playing behind Aldridge, Oden, and Pryz.

And as far as the comment about not playing here, it was said he played well in practice and Natt just never played him.

You are so quick to write him off when he's only been in the league 3 or 4 years and never been in a situation that was right. He went from a team that didn't want him to teams that couldn't use him because they had better players in front of him.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

NO WAY

I head jason Ross on khtk after the draft lottery on tuesday night talking about how since we won't get Griffin now is a great opportunity for Diogu. It just made me more depressed. There is a reason Ike wasn't in the rotation in GS and Portland, as well as here.

SAVE THE MONEY FOR SOMEONE ELSE!

I wouldn't want to overpay him, but Diogu has produced in every city he has played. His PER during his first four years in the league has been 15.81, 15.01, 16.94, 20.36. Now I know PERs limitations and would not use it along to justify a player's accomplishments; however, Ike appears to be more of a victim of circumstance and not a lack of skill. I don't want to overpay him for the way he played in the last two games this year, but having big to come off the bench and score and board is always a nice commodity.

 

[vikinginferno]

I wouldn't want to overpay him, but Diogu has produced in every city he has played. His PER during his first four years in the league has been 15.81, 15.01, 16.94, 20.36. Now I know PERs limitations and would not use it along to justify a player's accomplishments; however, Ike appears to be more of a victim of circumstance and not a lack of skill. I don't want to overpay him for the way he played in the last two games this year, but having big to come off the bench and score and board is always a nice commodity.

I totally agree. He never really has had too much of a chance. He's not going to be a great defensive player (even though I think he can guard PFs fairly well), but IMO he can be an extremely explosive offensive player and he has a knack for getting rebounds.

 

[Smills91]

NO WAY

I head jason Ross on khtk after the draft lottery on tuesday night talking about how since we won't get Griffin now is a great opportunity for Diogu. It just made me more depressed. There is a reason Ike wasn't in the rotation in GS and Portland, as well as here.

SAVE THE MONEY FOR SOMEONE ELSE!

And yet Jermaine O'Neal spent FOUR seasons on the bench in Portland before getting an opportunity in Indiana. Bigs and PG's need the most time to develop and be evaulated. With those positions, it's MUCH better to err on the side of caution and spend a year too long evaluating than a year too less. Ike showed flashes of BRILLIANCE in basically the ONLY two opportunites he was given. With no Griffin, I think keeping Ike(the cost is the variable here) is more imperative.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

I just like Diogu--he put up some monster games in yes, meaningless games, but at the end of the day it's still NBA competition and he was very efficient in doing that. It's not a fluke as well--he's put up past seasons of a PER around 15 even despite limited minutes, and if I recall he's had some 30 point games with his past teams as well. As amazing as it sounds, he has a rebound rate similar to Jason Thompson, so he can actually do more than just a little there. So he consistently produces, is still fairly young, and undersized PFs are en vogue in the league--all points in his favor. That being said, he has severe athletic limitations, and that really affects him defensively--also have to wonder about the conditioning and whether that's limiting his appearances as well--I think both factors have led him to become a journeyman.

End of the day, he can produce, but he's still very unknown and seems nearly universally hated (at least for the teams he's played for), so I think if we want we could take him back for the minimum. He sticks with his strengths (inside-outside scoring, getting to the line) and can actually rebound, but he only plays one side of the court well and struggles there at either frontcourt position.

 

[bajaden]

Nene Hilario - Height-6' 9.25", Standing reach-9'1"

Carlos Boozer - Height-6' 7.75", Standing reach-9'

Ike Diogu - Height-6' 6.50", Standing reach-9'1"

These are spec's from the combine. This is not an endorsement of Diogu. Just a comparison. Although Nene stands almost 3 inches taller, his standing reach is the same. As they say, you don't rebound with the top of your head.

 

[bajaden]

Oh, and by the way, since jumping ability was mentioned, I thought I should post those also.

Hilario - Standing vertical - 30", Max vertical - 34"

Boozer - Standing vertical - 26.50", Max vertical - 28.50"

Diogu - Standing vertical -28", Max vertical - 31"

So Diogu's jumping ability isn't earth shattering, but its certainly not horrible, and is better than Boozer's who has done fairly well in the league. And the reason I threw Boozer into the fray is because Diogu is PF and needs to be compared as one, despite what position he played in college.

 

[Bricklayer]

And yet Jermaine O'Neal spent FOUR seasons on the bench in Portland before getting an opportunity in Indiana. Bigs and PG's need the most time to develop and be evaulated. With those positions, it's MUCH better to err on the side of caution and spend a year too long evaluating than a year too less. Ike showed flashes of BRILLIANCE in basically the ONLY two opportunites he was given. With no Griffin, I think keeping Ike(the cost is the variable here) is more imperative.

Jermaine O'Neal spent 4 seasons directly out of high school while that was still a comparative rarity, buried on the bench behind the deepest contender in basketball at that time. He did not bounce around. He did not fail in multiple systems, on lottery teams, or anything else. People in Portland KNEW he was good but did not have time to develop him as a player, and demanded a former All Star in return for him when they did move him. Diogu was 3 games away from out of the league. Working on 4 teams in 3 years. Been outperformed and pinned on the bench by nobody and nobody squared for various young borderline lottery type teams. And then he has a 3 game spurt in salary drive time, and now the question is can he play? The situations are not comparable.

 

[Kingster]

I think he's great in the backup center role, and in playing some 4s who are bangers rather than quick (Big Baby, for example). We really need his physical play. He has very good strength in keeping centers out of the post, he can take centers away from the basket with his outside shot, he sets great screens, he can usually finish under the basket. Of course we should sign him - who else are we going to get? The question, as always, comes down to price.

 

[Kings Faithful]

I think he's great in the backup center role, and in playing some 4s who are bangers rather than quick (Big Baby, for example). We really need his physical play. He has very good strength in keeping centers out of the post, he can take centers away from the basket with his outside shot, he sets great screens, he can usually finish under the basket. Of course we should sign him - who else are we going to get? The question, as always, comes down to price.

Well I know id play him against Nene Hilario"usly dominated by Ike Diogu"...

 

[rainmaker]

Yeah, there's a reason. When was the last time Nelly used a post player as a main part of his offense? Why would he try to develop a player who he won't ever use?

In Indy, he played behind guys like Jermaine Oneal and Al Harrington.

In Portland, he didn't get much time because he was playing behind Aldridge, Oden, and Pryz.

And as far as the comment about not playing here, it was said he played well in practice and Natt just never played him.

You are so quick to write him off when he's only been in the league 3 or 4 years and never been in a situation that was right. He went from a team that didn't want him to teams that couldn't use him because they had better players in front of him.

It is not a question of me writing him off as an nba talent. I think he could contribute in the right situation. BUT... he hasn't shown enough to warrent a multi-yr deal(maybe a 1 yr deal at the veteran minimum). I understand sometimes players aren't in the best situation to utilize their talents, but he hasn't cracked the rotation on 4 different teams.

Is his career over as an nba player! No way. Not by any means. He has potential. He would be a project. But I don't want the kings taking a gamble on another player. With the cap room we have I want proven nba players. I would feel better about giving Ike a shot if we hadn't wrapped Beno up in that horrible contract, and we didn't have KT making 14 mil a yr on the end of the bench. IMO, its not worth the risk to sign Ike to anything more than a 1 yr/ veterans minimum contract.