Joe Johnson wants out: Your thoughts?

jacobdrj

Bench
Joe Johnson wants to go to Atlanta,
What are your thoughts on this situation with Joe Johnson and the Suns.

Personally, I don't know what his problem is. Phx would be a dream city for me to get paid to work in, and he is going to be offered a lucrative contract either way.

But that's just me.
 
It's probably about profile and likely by extension endorsemnts. As long as Joe is on the Suns he will play in the shadow of Nash, Marion, Richardson and Staudamire. He may see this shadowing effect curtailing his game/stats. In Atlanta he will be a stand out if not THE MAN.
 
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He's insane. Leaving after just one year with Marion, Stoudemire, Nash and him together to go to the Hawks is bad karma. It's the type of move that can turn your career into a train wreck. If he becomes a Hawk and they still can't get out of the lottery after a couple of seasons, suddenly he's one of those Allan Houston type of "what were they thinking when they gave him that deal?" players.

I can understand if he's not happy with the offers the Suns have put forth, but asking them to let you go to the Hawks? How can that be a good move for Johnson?
 
WTF ATL? Awesome, let's drop the max in JJ even though we're already overloaded with young 2/3 in Smith, Childress, and now Williams.
 
It definitely does sound like an insane thing to do, but Joe Johnson seems like sensible guy; like quick dog said, there has to be some serious issues going on there between him and the management.

If he does want to leave purely because of the fact he doesn't like to live in the shadow of the others, well, go ahead. If he wants to kill his career, then fine.
 
As addressed in the ESPN article, it isn't his choice.

He can tell the Suns front office that he doesn't want them to match, but they have no obligation to obey his wishes. In fact, it sounds like they will match, or at least are posturing that way, perhaps to set up a sign-and-trade.

In fact, the article states that they are planning on trading Voskuhl to the Bobcats to trim 2 million from their payroll in preparation for Johnsons new deal.

Besides losing a valuable piece from a contending team, they would be upsetting their franchise player if they let Johnson walk. Stoudamire's happiness has to be foremost on the Suns minds as they need to lock him up with an extention in order to continue their renaissance.
 
Yeah, who would have known Johnson could turn out to be the turd who tore Phoenix down before even getting started. Guys with inflated egos because they are good at bouncing a ball always amuse me.

Phoenix should still match, but in the interim if I were them I might go to Atlanta and say, "you really want him?" and then propose a sign and trade to pillage the Hawks' roster of whatever they can get. Harrington, Josh Smith and Delk?
 
Sounds like he felt slighted by Suns Management and how they've handle his contract. Atlanta must've made a hella of a pitch for him to feel the Suns weren't doing enough. The Suns have been more reactive than proactive.

You have to wonder what's going on with the management in Phoenix- this is the second player who wants to leave. After the deal to move Q. Rich fell through, Richardson was offended they tried to move him and he told them he no longer wanted to be there, and that they should trade him.

Is it just a case of overly sensitive players or is there more going on there. The more blunders they make the better for the Kings, and that is fine with me.
 
Phoenix handled the deal right -- Johnson is NOT a max player, and no way in hell I am going to come out and offer him that kind of money until the village idiots (Atlanta) do it first and force me to match.

I'm sorry but "oh, I am so offended a team ONLY offered me $60 million over 6yrs to bounce an orange ball" doesn't fly very far with me. Likely just as much about Joe having delusions of Jordandom and not being able to deal with just being one star among many in Phoenix.
 
HndsmCelt said:
It's probably about profile and likely by extension endorsemnts. As long as Joe is on the Suns he will play in the shadow of Nash, Marion, Richardson and Staudamire. He may see this shadowing effect curtailing his game/stats. In Atlanta he will be a stand out if not THE MAN.

Thats pretty much his exact reasoning...

I say if he wants to leave let him leave...I mean Joe is definetly an important piece to their team but they still have 3 other stars and have made a few nice moves this offseason...they'll still be okay

As for Atlanta for their sake I hope this whole deal pulls through...cuz they are pretty damn pathetic they pretty much need a guy like JJ that can get it done...and JJ actually said that he WANTS to go there...when was the last time a player said that about Atlanta...Atlanta is taking baby steps but they are trying to get their **** together as much as they possibly can this offseason...

A lot of people think JJ's nuts for going to Atlanta (including me) but he's doing what he thinks is best for him (and his game) and his family...I can't hate that...I hope he does really well in ATL if he does end up there
 
phoenix was so wrong with how they handled this.... they traded qrich without knowing what was going to happen with jj....

if it werent for the fact that marion is playing the 3 this season they'd be screwed.... with jimmy j and bell as their 2's.... we had better get a real big man because we could easily be better than the suns this coming season....
 
Well, Joe's feelings have some merit here. The Suns low-balled him a little bit, and then told the world that they would match ANY offer, trying to keep other teams from even attempting to up the ante. And that's fine, but they pissed him off, and then Atlanta stepped in and threw down the gauntlet. This is one the Suns. If they throw down a slightly larger deal to begin with, none of this happens. It's the NBA, you have to overpay for talent. Bibby is not worth his contract, and neither is Miller. But if you want to stay competitve you need to overspend at some positions.
 
$10 mil per a year was nobody's lowball until this offseason went insane.

Either way, now is the time you put your money where your mouth is and match this (unless of course you can rape Atlanta of a good chunk of its young talent). But either way, not before you let this thing stretch out right until the end of the matching period..let Atlanta slowly twist in the wind unable to make any other moves for the next week. Then match in the 11th hour.
 
So does Joe Johnson go down as a one of the most overrated players this offseason ? I mean he made his money being the 4th and sometimes 5th option on a all-star filled team, just because he can play average defense makes him worth the Max ?
 
Andriod_KiNg said:
So does Joe Johnson go down as a one of the most overrated players this offseason ? I mean he made his money being the 4th and sometimes 5th option on a all-star filled team, just because he can play average defense makes him worth the Max ?


Had he been unrestricted like Redd or Hughes, he would have recieved every bit as much media attention this offseason. It's only because Phoenix was so adamant about matching that he flew under the radar. And he is integral to their success, not merely a "fourth" wheel. If anyone was exposed in their playoff run as superfulous, it's Marion. Q sat the bench because Johnson played so well, and when he went down, Nash was overburdened. I think that keeping Johnson is integral to the Suns re-signing Amare within the next 2 years.
 
He's an excellent complimentary player -- defends, rebounds, handles the ball and pick up PG duties when called upon. But he does not look to be a front line star. In Phoenix he thrives in the shadows and with Nash setting him up, in Atlanta it will be throw the ball to Joe and let him make something happen. He's much better suited for option #1.
 
Bricklayer said:
Phoenix handled the deal right -- Johnson is NOT a max player, and no way in hell I am going to come out and offer him that kind of money until the village idiots (Atlanta) do it first and force me to match.

I'm sorry but "oh, I am so offended a team ONLY offered me $60 million over 6yrs to bounce an orange ball" doesn't fly very far with me. Likely just as much about Joe having delusions of Jordandom and not being able to deal with just being one star among many in Phoenix.

From a financial point, they did the right thing. But in business dealings you need to take into account the second parties feelings. It’s the GM’s job to read these kinds of things and take the necessary approach. You can break it down to just "bounce an orange ball" but this industry generates billions, and whether I feel someone is worth it or not, I won't fault them for wanting their share.

You’re right that Johnson isn’t a max player. Probably should’ve given him a contract last year. Also trading away Q. Rich was a tactical error, and gives Johnson’s camp more leverage.
 
Bricklayer said:
$10 mil per a year was nobody's lowball until this offseason went insane.


Right, but then they did not correct themselves, and broadcast to everybody that they better not make any offer to Johnson. I'm not saying they mentally scarred the man, but I would be a little upset too at how things were handled.
 
I see the Suns in order of importance like this:
Amare
Nashy
J.Johnson
Marion
Q-who?

They need to match ATL for Johnson. He is a sweet *** baller.
 
Bricklayer said:
$10 mil per a year was nobody's lowball until this offseason went insane.

Either way, now is the time you put your money where your mouth is and match this (unless of course you can rape Atlanta of a good chunk of its young talent). But either way, not before you let this thing stretch out right until the end of the matching period..let Atlanta slowly twist in the wind unable to make any other moves for the next week. Then match in the 11th hour.
Not sure about that. Atlanta is so far under the cap, they could offer a couple of max contracts and still have room to manuveur. They are in a situation that they really have no choice but to offer top dollar for top tier talent or accept ending up overpaying for the table scraps.
 
Bricklayer said:
He's an excellent complimentary player -- defends, rebounds, handles the ball and pick up PG duties when called upon. But he does not look to be a front line star. In Phoenix he thrives in the shadows and with Nash setting him up, in Atlanta it will be throw the ball to Joe and let him make something happen. He's much better suited for option #1.

Keep in mind, I don't really know who Joe is and I have never seen him play, but wasn't that what they thought about T-Mac before he exploded?
 
Not matching could be one of the wisest business moves the Suns have ever made. Of course they did kind of screw themselves by letting Q, and a pick (very talented Nate Robinson), go for something less valuable.

If the Suns match they tie themselves down to four players and they better hope none get hurt.
 
without joe, they are delt a blow i think, simply because he does so many things well, and the man is tough as they come. i wouldn't match it simply because he would be vastly overpaid for the work he does. no he's not gonna be a star in phoenix, but they don't need another one... they need a complimentary player, which joe is. let amare dunk through people, marion grab boards, block shots and get them some putbacks, and joe can mull around hittin wide open 3s, running the floor for easy dunks and such. if he goes, phoenix gets considerably weaker i think, especially if nash goes down.
 
all the more reason to wish him happy trails to atlanta. phoenix is hamstringing themselves either way, either they lose talent or have 4 max contracts in 4 players for the next few years.

go kings! :D
 
I think it goes deeper than this year. The Sun have been low balling him since last year. Joe wanted the same money that Q Rich got last summer and the Suns said no. It continued throught out this summer aswell. I think Joe is getting sick of how the management is treating him.
 
Update: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2120960

Sign-and-trade with Hawks would net Johnson $70MBy Marc Stein
ESPN.com
Archive

It appears that Joe Johnson's wish to swap a supporting role in Phoenix for star status in Atlanta is on the verge of being granted.

NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com that the Suns and Hawks have locked into serious trade discussions that could send Johnson to the Eastern Conference via sign-and-trade as early as Tuesday afternoon.

The proposed deal, according to sources, would bring guard Boris Diaw and two future first-round picks to Phoenix -- along with a trade exception in the $5 million range -- after Johnson signs a contract under terms established by Atlanta: $70 million over five years with an estimated balloon payment of $20 million up front.

Johnson, a restricted free agent, has been planning for weeks to sign a five-year, $70 million offer sheet from Atlanta as soon as the league's moratorium on signings is lifted Tuesday at noon. On Thursday, Johnson stunned Suns managing partner Robert Sarver by asking Sarver directly not to match the offer, telling his boss that he prefers to continue his career as a Hawk. On Friday, at teammate Steve Nash's charity game in Toronto, Johnson revealed the request to ESPN.com and spoke excitedly about the opportunity to play point guard with the Hawks.

After maintaining for weeks that it would match any offer sheet Johnson signs, Phoenix chose a new course this weekend, ultimately deciding it was better for team chemistry to pursue a sign-and-trade with Atlanta instead of investing huge sums in a player who wants to leave.

Johnson's increasingly imminent departure is a coup for the desperate Hawks and an undeniable blow to the Suns, who have long considered the versatile swingman no less critical to last season's overwhelming success than any of their three All-Stars: Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion and Nash. Next to Nash, the league's newly minted MVP, Johnson was the only other dependable playmaker on a 62-win team and shot a deadly 47.8 percent from 3-point range.

Phoenix, though, has always liked Diaw, a rugged defender and underrated ballhandler from France, and sees him as part of a three- or four-man platoon to replace Johnson, who desires a bigger role than he can have with the star-laden Suns.

Phoenix struck a verbal agreement with Utah's Raja Bell, another defensive specialist with an underrated offensive game, on the first day of free agency. It also still has swingman Jim Jackson, who filled in ably for Johnson during a second-round dismissal of Dallas.

Johnson's exit would likewise spark the Suns to intensify their pursuit of the Dallas Mavericks' Michael Finley. Dallas is expected to waive Finley via the new "amnesty clause" that gives teams a one-time opportunity to release a player without paying any further luxury tax on his contract, unless the Mavericks can trade Finley to an Eastern Conference team before the Aug. 15 deadline for using the amnesty provision.


As an amnesty casualty, Finley would still receive what's left on his Mavericks contract (nearly $52 million) and also have the opportunity to choose his next team in free agency. The list of teams lining up to bid for Finley is a long one, featuring NBA Finals foes San Antonio and Detroit and virtually every other playoff contender in the league, but Phoenix possesses a couple of recruiting advantages.

Finley is received warmly by Suns fans to this day, after Phoenix drafted him No. 21 overall in 1995. The 32-year-old will also be lobbied hard by Nash, who remains one of his closest friends in the league -- along with Dirk Nowitzki -- after the trio's long run together in Dallas. Finley joined Johnson in attendance at Nash's charity game in Toronto, even though his ongoing recovery from June ankle surgery prevented him from playing.

The concern for the Suns is that, with only limited free-agent resources left this summer, they'll be outbid for Finley by most of his suitors.

Landing Johnson, meanwhile, ranks as a huge catch for Hawks general manager Billy Knight, who has struggled since last summer to convert his considerable salary-cap space into a marquee acquisition. Having whiffed a year ago in its attempts to score free agents such as Kenyon Martin and Erick Dampier, Atlanta has been quietly optimistic that it would be able to import Johnson as a point guard to team with its cadre of young swingmen: Al Harrington, Josh Childress, Josh Smith and Marvin Williams, selected No. 2 overall in the recent draft.

"I love the idea," Johnson told ESPN.com on Friday. "I'd love that, having the ball in my hands. I think I'm a great shooter, but that's where I think I'm most effective, making decisions."

In his first extended interview about his future since free agency began Friday, Johnson said his desire to leave the Suns involves "a lot of things," starting with contentious negotiations on a contract extension last October that broke off with sides about $5 million apart. Johnson was rankled further earlier this month when, after a breakout season for himself and the team, Phoenix offered only $60 million over six years.

Yet sources close to the situation also insist that Johnson is most unhappy with what he perceives as his standing as a "fourth wheel" behind Stoudemire, Marion and especially Nash. The native of nearby Arkansas would instantly have his own team to run in Atlanta and become a franchise face for a club teeming with inexperience.

Because the Hawks are so far under the salary cap, and because Johnson will become a base-year compensation player after signing his new deal, Phoenix won't be required in a trade to take back contracts in the neighborhood of Johnson's first-year salary of $12 million. Diaw has two seasons left on his contract totaling just over $3 million.

On top of the draft picks in the deal, the trade exception -- good for one year -- gives Phoenix the ability to take back more salary in a future trade than it gives up and thus provides another vehicle for acquiring a contributor.

Given Sarver's stated aversion to letting his annual payroll stray far beyond $50 million, replacing Johnson with Bell, Diaw, two draft picks, a trade exception and perhaps even Finley (if the Suns are so fortunate) holds considerable appeal. Although sources insist that Sarver was intent on matching an offer sheet to Johnson, doing so would have put Phoenix in the rare position of carrying four players who earn roughly $50 million by themselves, with Stoudemire soon to receive a maximum contract extension that would kick in starting with the 2006-07 season. And Kurt Thomas, another recent acquisition from New York in a trade for Quentin Richardson, has three seasons left on his deal at an average of more than $7 million.

"You've got to go where you're comfortable," Johnson said Friday in explaining his wish to swap Phoenix for Atlanta.

With the Hawks unable to sign the restricted free agent outright, a sign-and-trade has emerged as the most comfortable compromise for Johnson and the two teams involved.
 
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