Jimmer Fredette

[VF21]

All this talk about Jimmer (who I like) will be irellevant next season.

Well, then it's probably a good thing we're doing it now, isn't it?

 

[New Era]

So I've never really considered myself a Jimmer guy but I was looking at his stats so far this season:

FG%: .477
3PT%: .493
FT: .941

I had no idea his numbers were this good!

So we currently have 2 shooting guards who can't shoot and play minimal defense. I realize Jimmer is a little bit undersized but why is he not used more as the SG? Personally, he makes me nervous when he's playing PG. It just seems to me that it would make more sense to use Ray as the backup PG and try to fit Jimmer in somehow (maybe when Ray is also playing since he's limited offensively right now but plays defense) and get him more minutes. He's one of the best pure shooters in the entire league!

 

[Chupacabra]

So I've never really considered myself a Jimmer guy but I was looking at his stats so far this season:

FG%: .477
3PT%: .493
FT: .941

I had no idea his numbers were this good!

So we currently have 2 shooting guards who can't shoot and play minimal defense. I realize Jimmer is a little bit undersized but why is he not used more as the SG? Personally, he makes me nervous when he's playing PG. It just seems to me that it would make more sense to use Ray as the backup PG and try to fit Jimmer in somehow (maybe when Ray is also playing since he's limited offensively right now but plays defense) and get him more minutes. He's one of the best pure shooters in the entire league!

He isn't the starting shooting guard because he is best used in the role that he is playing right now. His role is almost identical to IT's old role. It would simply be too much offense in the starting lineup.

 

[Entity]

I would venture to say that jimmer would get less shots with the starters for 30 min than he does for 15 min off the bench

 

[Npliam]

I would venture to say that jimmer would get less shots with the starters for 30 min than he does for 15 min off the bench

Now if he could only get 15 minutes a game.

 

[Entity]

Now if he could only get 15 minutes a game.

Maybe he will after feb 20th.

 

[CruzDude]

Jimmer much more involves others and sees the floor better than IT. Thats a given. His shooting % support he is a good shooter and from most anywhere. If IT would be the 6th man bench guy then Kings can make big step up. And if nothing happens at PG by deadline................ Then what?

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

So I've never really considered myself a Jimmer guy but I was looking at his stats so far this season:

FG%: .477
3PT%: .493
FT: .941

I had no idea his numbers were this good!

With the way he can put the ball in the hole, someone is probably going to end up signing him for a real 'bargain'

 

[Glenn]

This shooting thing that he seems to have is one of the reasons he was drafted by the Kings. Some think he is merely filler on a trade or would be worth trading him and hoping we could get a 2nd rounder. Some criticize him for shooting so many threes and compare him to IT. These stats make me think twice about his future. Perhaps the sample size is too small for some but this is exactly what he was doing in college and it is not a fluke.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

This shooting thing that he seems to have is one of the reasons he was drafted by the Kings. Some think he is merely filler on a trade or would be worth trading him and hoping we could get a 2nd rounder. Some criticize him for shooting so many threes and compare him to IT. These stats make me think twice about his future. Perhaps the sample size is too small for some but this is exactly what he was doing in college and it is not a fluke.

I believe he would be an even more effective shooter if he got more time. We've seen small samples of this in last two or so months.

There's no reason for me to believe that he couldn't regain full confidence and "swagger" as some like to call it. A couple more 28 footers and he may be within striking distance of regaining it. It's obviously within him to do so

 

[Glenn]

Jimmer has been getting his swagger back over the last couple months if not since the season began. Whether the Kings value him is another matter. It seems to be debatable among fans also. I do not understand how a guy like Jimmer, this Jimmer who is historically the same Jimmer as he was in college, can't find a place on the bench with the Kings. I am beginning to think that those Jimmermaniacs, and I consider myself an honorary member, may have been right all along. I doubt it though but maybe it took Jimmer 3 years to fit in. That doesn't make him novel in the NBA.

I'd like to see where this conversation goes as we either trade him in a few days or wait it out and see if he evolves further. I prefer the latter at this moment. There is nothing to be lost.

 

[Hadlowe]

Jimmer has been getting his swagger back over the last couple months if not since the season began. Whether the Kings value him is another matter. It seems to be debatable among fans also. I do not understand how a guy like Jimmer, this Jimmer who is historically the same Jimmer as he was in college, can't find a place on the bench with the Kings. I am beginning to think that those Jimmermaniacs, and I consider myself an honorary member, may have been right all along. I doubt it though but maybe it took Jimmer 3 years to fit in. That doesn't make him novel in the NBA.

I'd like to see where this conversation goes as we either trade him in a few days or wait it out and see if he evolves further. I prefer the latter at this moment. There is nothing to be lost.

Jimmer wasn't outstanding his first two years at BYU. His junior year he started making some noise and he considered declaring for the draft being projected as a mid to late second round pick. His near-historic senior year was a product of him being three years smarter than his best competition combined with the shooting stroke.

He has always been a decent, but not outstanding athlete who beats opponents with trick shots and range. The NBA learning curve is unforgiving and I sincerely doubt he would have been better the last two years with more time on court, but it should also not be surprising that he could overcome the learning curve with enough time. It's thousands of hours of practice that have given him the floater (he didn't have that in college) and the improvements to his handle and defense.

The questions PDA needs to address are whether 1) Jimmer is a fit for the roster of the future, and 2) whether you can retain him at the end of the season.

1) is doubtful. Jimmer's handle is improved in that he doesn't turn the ball over against ball pressure often, but the offense does stagnate pretty often with the bench unit and that is a product of Jimmer struggling to impose his will on opposing defenses and especially against ball pressure. He needs to have another facilitator out there to keep the ball moving. McLemore, Williams, Acy, Landry and Gray are the guys Jimmer plays with the most. None of them are playmakers.

2) Unless Jimmer just blows up after the all-star break, he is going to be a cheap free agent in the offseason. I would guess that his contract ceiling would be somewhere around what he is getting paid right now on a 2 year contract, maybe with a player option. Assuming the roster stays intact, the Kings will need to find room to resign IT in the offseason and sign their draft pick. That is going to put the Kings into the luxury tax. I can't see the Kings being willing to go further into the tax to sign Jimmer.

I would rather have the Kings trade Jimmer for a future asset than just let him walk. I would rather let him just walk rather than take on a player like Andre Miller as a stopgap.

 

[Glenn]

Jimmer wasn't outstanding his first two years at BYU. His junior year he started making some noise and he considered declaring for the draft being projected as a mid to late second round pick. His near-historic senior year was a product of him being three years smarter than his best competition combined with the shooting stroke.

He has always been a decent, but not outstanding athlete who beats opponents with trick shots and range. The NBA learning curve is unforgiving and I sincerely doubt he would have been better the last two years with more time on court, but it should also not be surprising that he could overcome the learning curve with enough time. It's thousands of hours of practice that have given him the floater (he didn't have that in college) and the improvements to his handle and defense.

The questions PDA needs to address are whether 1) Jimmer is a fit for the roster of the future, and 2) whether you can retain him at the end of the season.

1) is doubtful. Jimmer's handle is improved in that he doesn't turn the ball over against ball pressure often, but the offense does stagnate pretty often with the bench unit and that is a product of Jimmer struggling to impose his will on opposing defenses and especially against ball pressure. He needs to have another facilitator out there to keep the ball moving. McLemore, Williams, Acy, Landry and Gray are the guys Jimmer plays with the most. None of them are playmakers.

2) Unless Jimmer just blows up after the all-star break, he is going to be a cheap free agent in the offseason. I would guess that his contract ceiling would be somewhere around what he is getting paid right now on a 2 year contract, maybe with a player option. Assuming the roster stays intact, the Kings will need to find room to resign IT in the offseason and sign their draft pick. That is going to put the Kings into the luxury tax. I can't see the Kings being willing to go further into the tax to sign Jimmer.

I would rather have the Kings trade Jimmer for a future asset than just let him walk. I would rather let him just walk rather than take on a player like Andre Miller as a stopgap.

I'm with you on all of that. As an aside, people say Jimmer is slow getting his shot off. I picture it as him just taking a little extra time to load his cannon. Not sure how much more blowing up he could do. I suppose if he kept the present stats to the end of he year, someone would give him serious attention. He still has limits and that has always been known. His potential as a lights out shooter has always been known also.

 

[peacelate]

Jimmer has been getting his swagger back over the last couple months if not since the season began. Whether the Kings value him is another matter. It seems to be debatable among fans also. I do not understand how a guy like Jimmer, this Jimmer who is historically the same Jimmer as he was in college, can't find a place on the bench with the Kings. I am beginning to think that those Jimmermaniacs, and I consider myself an honorary member, may have been right all along. I doubt it though but maybe it took Jimmer 3 years to fit in. That doesn't make him novel in the NBA.

I'd like to see where this conversation goes as we either trade him in a few days or wait it out and see if he evolves further. I prefer the latter at this moment. There is nothing to be lost.

I agree with you. I'm a little shocked how Jimmer doesn't get at the very least 15 minutes a game. He's a career 40% shooter from 3 and shooting 49% this year. No matter how bad is defense may be, which isn't as bad as people make it out to be, he should have a role with this team. I always cringed when people stated Jimmer might be playing overseas next year. If you can shoot 40% from 3 point land, you have a role in the NBA.

 

[Hadlowe]

I'm with you on all of that. As an aside, people say Jimmer is slow getting his shot off. I picture it as him just taking a little extra time to load his cannon. Not sure how much more blowing up he could do. I suppose if he kept the present stats to the end of he year, someone would give him serious attention. He still has limits and that has always been known. His potential as a lights out shooter has always been known also.

Speed in getting up a shot is important. It's part of what makes Steph Curry and pre-meltdown Marcus Thornton so hard to stop. Jimmer's shot off the dribble is slower than theirs, but not terribly slow. The range he is shooting from is also another factor to consider. He is shooting 22 of 41 from 25 feet and further out, so roughly the same as his overall three point %. Even if he needs more space to get the shot off, he is still accurate from out there, meaning he can get a shot off by making defenders close out further.

I really do wish we had the personnel to play Jimmer off-ball. If we could use him like a 2-guard, we could stash him at the wing and in the corner. Jimmer is 8 of 9 for corner threes on the year and 19 of 39 from the wings. He is "only" shooting 38% from the top of the key for the year.

 

[Hadlowe]

I agree with you. I'm a little shocked how Jimmer doesn't get at the very least 15 minutes a game. He's a career 40% shooter from 3 and shooting 49% this year. No matter how bad is defense may be, which isn't as bad as people make it out to be, he should have a role with this team. I always cringed when people stated Jimmer might be playing overseas next year. If you can shoot 40% from 3 point land, you have a role in the NBA.

It's less about how his defense is (which isn't great), and more about how to utilize that shooting. The Knicks perimeter defense is bad. Really bad. As in Jimmer would probably be the best defender at the point if he played for the Knicks, bad. That's not to take away from what Jimmer did against them, but you can't count on being guarded by Felton, Prigioni and Hardaway, Jr. every night.

Early in the game, Jimmer got his threes (the primary reason he is in the league) in transition, two on the break (beating the backcourt press with some nice screens from Landry), and one where Prigioni sagged down near the free throw line against Jimmer (nice scouting report, Knicks). After that, the Knicks played him tight for the most part and he didn't score again until halfway through the fourth. At that point, we actually ran some plays to get Jimmer open and those worked to great effect, but it's because Jimmer wasn't handling the ball anymore.

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but Landry, for all his warts, is the first King I've seen who actually consistently bothers setting screens fullcourt to help guards beat ball pressure. I've been complaining about that for three years now.

 

[Toasty]

The Knicks are a good defensive team.

 

[Hadlowe]

The Knicks are a good defensive team.

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not. The Knicks are 25th in defensive efficiency, coming in two spots ahead of the Kings. They are not a good defensive team, with the primary breakdowns coming in the backcourt.

 

[sqwalk]

I remember hearing an interview from Jimmer in his rookie year and he mentioned that he struggled his first few years at each level (high school and college) before figuring it out.

With that, I fully expected that this year he was going to be much improved, and by next year we will see the full impact of his "swagger" and confidence, assuming he gets 15+ minutes on the court.

Even though he may not be as athletic as many, he's a gym rat, shoots lights out, and has a high bball IQ. That may not be good enough to make the All Star team, but certainly good enough to be a valuable role player who provides floor spacing along with team leadership.

The only question is, will it be with the Kings?

 

[Npliam]

I remember hearing an interview from Jimmer in his rookie year and he mentioned that he struggled his first few years at each level (high school and college) before figuring it out.

With that, I fully expected that this year he was going to be much improved, and by next year we will see the full impact of his "swagger" and confidence, assuming he gets 15+ minutes on the court.

Even though he may not be as athletic as many, he's a gym rat, shoots lights out, and has a high bball IQ. That may not be good enough to make the All Star team, but certainly good enough to be a valuable role player who provides floor spacing along with team leadership.

The only question is, will it be with the Kings?

I am pretty sure that question has been answered already. No , it won't be with the Kings.

 

[Glenn]

I am pretty sure that question has been answered already. No , it won't be with the Kings.

No question of that sort has been answered except by a few experts on this forum.

 

[Npliam]

No question of that sort has been answered except by a few experts on this forum.

Well...of course management hasn't come out and said that he isn't' part of the future of the organization but there is plenty of evidence to suggest that both they and coach Malone don't feel like he has a future with the team. The Kings didn't pick up his option, and for Jimmer to "earn" playing time he has to absolutely go supernova on the court. They haven't shown any evidence that even want him on the roster at all this year let alone next year. They would rather let IT hoist 30 shots in a game than play Jimmer an extra 5 minutes, even if he played well in the first half stint.

The Kings as an organization have shown absolutely no desire to put forth any effort in developing Jimmer. Some will say that this is on Jimmer and not the coach or the Kings as an organisation. That if he had played better he would get to play more or that if he didn't have so many hole in his game he would get more playing time. He has played pretty darn well this year and has improved in all of his weaknesses to the point where they aren't what it keeping him off the floor.

Show me a 3rd year player on any NBA team in the history of the NBA that has the offensive efficiency that Jimmer has this year that has played so few minutes and almost no minutes with the starters.

So while there has been no announcement that the Kings aren't resigning Jimmer, they certainly have made it clear they don't have any plans for him.

 

[Hadlowe]

No question of that sort has been answered except by a few experts on this forum.

I would say that the odds are against it, barring significant roster shakeup at the deadline and/or in the offseason.

 

[Hadlowe]

Well...of course management hasn't come out and said that he isn't' part of the future of the organization but there is plenty of evidence to suggest that both they and coach Malone don't feel like he has a future with the team. The Kings didn't pick up his option, and for Jimmer to "earn" playing time he has to absolutely go supernova on the court. They haven't shown any evidence that even want him on the roster at all this year let alone next year. They would rather let IT hoist 30 shots in a game than play Jimmer an extra 5 minutes, even if he played well in the first half stint.

The Kings as an organization have shown absolutely no desire to put forth any effort in developing Jimmer. Some will say that this is on Jimmer and not the coach or the Kings as an organisation. That if he had played better he would get to play more or that if he didn't have so many hole in his game he would get more playing time. He has played pretty darn well this year and has improved in all of his weaknesses to the point where they aren't what it keeping him off the floor.

Show me a 3rd year player on any NBA team in the history of the NBA that has the offensive efficiency that Jimmer has this year that has played so few minutes and almost no minutes with the starters.

So while there has been no announcement that the Kings aren't resigning Jimmer, they certainly have made it clear they don't have any plans for him.

It has always been a question of fit for him this year. Without Tyreke on the roster, there was really no hope for Jimmer to have significant play time. He either would get minutes at the 2 next to IT in a micro backcourt or would get minutes handling the ball next to a very raw McLemore. Neither of those prospects would lead to winning basketball.

 

[Npliam]

It has always been a question of fit for him this year. Without Tyreke on the roster, there was really no hope for Jimmer to have significant play time. He either would get minutes at the 2 next to IT in a micro backcourt or would get minutes handling the ball next to a very raw McLemore. Neither of those prospects would lead to winning basketball.

Bullcrap. There is no reason at all the Jimmer couldn't get 15 min a game at the point and another 5 min a game at the 2. The only reason that he hasn't is because he wasn't part of the Kings future plans.

Oh and......what they are doing right now is really leading to winning basketball.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Bullpoopoo. There is no reason at all the Jimmer couldn't get 15 min a game at the point and another 5 min a game at the 2. The only reason that he hasn't is because he wasn't part of the Kings future plans.

Oh and......what they are doing right now is really leading to winning basketball.

Despite the sarcasm (my second language) I have to agree on both points. I really do NOT see any reasonable scenario where we can, or should keep IT. He will command a salary beyond his value, and is like to either end up the overpaid sixth man on a good team or starting for a loosing team. On the other hand I can almost see keeping Jimmer as likely as him going. It will be interesting to see what offers he gets and at Vet min, it could be worth while to see if he can continue to develop into a reliable swing guard.

 

[Hadlowe]

Bullpoopoo. There is no reason at all the Jimmer couldn't get 15 min a game at the point and another 5 min a game at the 2. The only reason that he hasn't is because he wasn't part of the Kings future plans.

Oh and......what they are doing right now is really leading to winning basketball.

I agree that Jimmer should be taking more of IT's minutes at point. I don't really want to see them on the floor together, though. IT routinely freezes out his 2-guards as it is. Imagine what he would do to the guy taking his minutes.

 

[Glenn]

Bullpoopoo. There is no reason at all the Jimmer couldn't get 15 min a game at the point and another 5 min a game at the 2. The only reason that he hasn't is because he wasn't part of the Kings future plans.

Oh and......what they are doing right now is really leading to winning basketball.

Oh, yes, I think what they are doing will lead to winning basketball. Let's see if Boogie is injured as we can't win without Boogie and Rudy. If we plug the holes at defense with a big man, very likely, and get a starting pg, we will have a good team.

BTW, anyone know what's up with Boogie. He supposedly injured the same muscles that resulted in surgery when Landry injured the same muscles.

 

[fanop]

I believe he would be an even more effective shooter if he got more time. We've seen small samples of this in last two or so months.

There's no reason for me to believe that he couldn't regain full confidence and "swagger" as some like to call it. A couple more 28 footers and he may be within striking distance of regaining it. It's obviously within him to do so

I agree. He would actually have a flow and consistency. He gets pulled after 3 minutes of playing... I don't think many players can't prove much in such limited minutes, but Jimmer does.

Bullpoopoo. There is no reason at all the Jimmer couldn't get 15 min a game at the point and another 5 min a game at the 2. The only reason that he hasn't is because he wasn't part of the Kings future plans.

Oh and......what they are doing right now is really leading to winning basketball.

I've said this so many times.. our team is nowhere playoff caliber, yet the coach doesn't want to let these younger guys get more minutes. The kings are such a good team that keeping IT out on the floor at all times is necessary, or else we'll miss 1 spot off the playoffs!

His stat lines in games where he's received 15+ minutes

@ Portland 19mins 2-6(fgm-fga) 3rebs 3asts 2stls 1to 4pts
@ Phx 17mins 3-6 2rebs 2 asts 1stl 8pts
vs Philly 17mins 5-9 4rebs 1blk 3tos 15pts
vs CLE 19mins 5-9 3rebs 3asts 3tos 13pts
@ IND 21mins 4-10 4rebs 4asts 1stl 1to 9pts
@ HOU 18mins 4-6 2reb 1ast 2tos 14pts
@UTA 19mins 4-8 2rebs 2asts 1stl 2tos 8pts
vs TOR 15 mins 2-5 1stl 1to 5pts
@NYK 27mins 9-14 2asts 2stls 1to 24pts

Isn't it obvious that when Jimmer gets more than 15 minutes, he sucks? Just look at his shooting numbers.. he takes away too many shots from IT!

Jimmer is obviously not in the future plans of the kings. I have no problem with that, but I don't see why we can't utilize him more than we do now. Does he just suck so much that he doesn't deserve a role on the 18-35 kings?

I'd be very surprised if the kings offered him a new contract next year. The kings don't need Jimmer's talent because our big 3 is all we need. When we don't have Cuz or Gay, losing is ok because we are basically without our entire roster. It's not like we have role players on our team who have proved they can score when given the opportunity(D-Will), or players who can flat out score(Jimmer).

I have a feeling that the FO has Jimmer, D-Will, Landry, and Thornton all on the trade block right now.

 

[Glenn]

Your mixture of sarcasm and what I presume is a genuine opinion makes this impossible to understand.