Jimmer Fredette

[treach1976]

If you could survive in the NBA by only doing one thing well. Justin Williams would be in his 7th season right now

speaking of straw men...

 

[Entity]

So you weren't saying that because he didn't get traded today that nobody believes he can play?

I was saying that. I wasn't saying everbody as you stated. Hence the strawman

 

[Entity]

speaking of straw men...

No Justin Williams is an actual person.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

If you could survive in the NBA by only doing one thing well. Justin Williams would be in his 7th season right now

How many things could Steve Kerr do well? How many things can Hasheem Thabeet do well? Anthony Morrow? Kyle Korver? Channing Frye?

 

[Entity]

How many things could Steve Kerr do well? How many things can Hasheem Thabeet do well? Anthony Morrow? Kyle Korver? Channing Frye?

2

 

[treach1976]

No Justin Williams is an actual person.

lol - a strawman on top of your strawman....

1) Strawman 1 --- changed operating assumption to "only does one thing well"...
2) Strawman 2 --- a clever strawman to divert attention from what my strawman accusation was about... i wasn't attacking your comparison to or existence of Justin Williams (although i don't agree)

 

[Entity]

How many things could Steve Kerr do well? How many things can Hasheem Thabeet do well? Anthony Morrow? Kyle Korver? Channing Frye?

They very fact that you are comparing jimmer in same sentence with thabeet. Top 5 bust in recent nba drafts. Should pretty much end this musing

 

[Entity]

lol - a strawman on top of your strawman....

1) Strawman 1 --- changed operating assumption to "only does one thing well"...
2) Strawman 2 --- a clever strawman to divert attention from what my strawman accusation was about... i wasn't questioning the comparison to or existence of Justin Williams

Oh you are questioning the one thing well. Haha. Didn't realize that was in question. Thought surely you ment Justin. Ok I will play jimmer shoots well and...

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

2

What was the other one?

 

[Npliam]

I was saying that. I wasn't saying everbody as you stated. Hence the strawman

You really aren't very good at this.

 

[mac]

I don't have a lot of confidence in Jimmer to consistently run an NBA offense right now, but I do think he's at least ready to have a shot at regular playing time. I've never been a big fan of his style of play (and under-sized shooting guards in general, which seems to be where he'll settle in if he settles at all) but I do see that he plays hard on defense most of the time even if he's not always in the right position. And I see that he's looking for his teammates when he has the ball even if he doesn't have the necessary skills all the time to deliver the ball on target with defensive pressure. It's an unfortunate reality that Jimmer is going to play out the rest of his rookie contract here without ever getting nearly the chances that were given to Isaiah Thomas to prove himself at this level. Thomas has a brash confidence and an outspoken personality which is what got him the starting spot in the first place and allowed him to keep it. Jimmer, like McLemore and Williams to a certain extent, is more eager to please and more willing to defer. There's not a lot of room for easygoing personalities in professional sports. Usually the last spot goes to the guy who wants it the most and is willing to do anything to get it.

This is the last thing I ever expected, but as we're nearing the inevitable end of his tenure as a King I find myself just the slightest bit remorseful that he didn't get more of a chance to prove he belongs on this roster. I don't think he'll be a starter at any position, and at this point we really need to be playing Ray McCallum regular minutes because he's a part of the future of the team. But if it were up to me I'd scale back IT's minutes now that we've basically conceded the season anyway and he's very likely going to be playing for someone else next season, and get Jimmer some regular playing time for the last month and a half. If for no other reason than good karma and a positive reputation with the players association.

What I find disturbing is the FO's confidence in McCallum and McLemore as part of our future. Where is this coming from? Are they really such talented scouts and judges of talent? That's not to say you write them off but to treat a second round pick and a underachieving top 10 pick as guaranteed future pieces makes no more sense to me than treating Jimmer as the future. In fact, you could argue that Jimmer (albeit already in his 3rd year) has shown recent signs of being a decent rotational player! So why pin all our hopes on Ben (to the extent that he was one of the few we were not willing to trade) and Ray while writing off Jimmer? Can we honestly say that Jimmer, when given a fair chance and regular minutes, has failed to show more promise than whatever Ben and Ray have shown?

 

[rainmaker]

Fair enough, you are certainly more well connected than I am but my opinion comes from watching almost every Kings game this year not just specifically last night. Malone is a mediocre to bad offensive coach.

Maybe, maybe not. Tough to tell when he's coaching a bunch of guys who had no idea if they'd be here past the deadline and have no idea if they'll be here come training camp. That amount of instability within a roster, along with our GM very publicly stating since day one he'll be looking to make moves and overhaul the roster, makes it much tougher for a group of guys to buy into a system.

There are things I question about Malone. At the same time, when both Boogie and Rudy were healthy, our offense was pretty decent. We sure weren't and aren't losing games due to our offense, it's the other side of the ball. Ya know, both Thibs and Brooks aren't great offensive coaches either. Their sets aren't that imaginative, like an Adelman. But you control the defensive end and have good support players around your stars, you leave yourself much more wiggle room.

Frankly, Malone's use of Jimmer has little do with whether he's a good offensive coach or not and little to do with our record. We have a bad roster stacked with terrible defenders and zero stability as no one aside from Boogie knows if they'll even be here come July.

 

[treach1976]

Oh you are questioning the one thing well. Haha. Didn't realize that was in question. Thought surely you ment Justin. Ok I will play jimmer shoots well and...

Actually - you still aren't there yet....

Jimmer shoots really really really well... and does other things adequately... (sees the floor, plays the pick & roll, understands how and when to pass / shoot)

 

[Entity]

You really aren't very good at this.

Don't have to be. Like I said 3 months one of us will still be here. Maybe a European team forum will then get the poor jimmer nightly routine

 

[Npliam]

Maybe, maybe not. Tough to tell when he's coaching a bunch of guys who had no idea if they'd be here past the deadline and have no idea if they'll be here come training camp. That amount of instability within a roster, along with our GM very publicly stating since day one he'll be looking to make moves and overhaul the roster, makes it much tougher for a group of guys to buy into a system.

There are things I question about Malone. At the same time, when both Boogie and Rudy were healthy, our offense was pretty decent. We sure weren't and aren't losing games due to our offense, it's the other side of the ball. Ya know, both Thibs and Brooks aren't great offensive coaches either. Their sets aren't that imaginative, like an Adelman. But you control the defensive end and have good support players around your stars, you leave yourself much more wiggle room.

Frankly, Malone's use of Jimmer has little do with whether he's a good offensive coach or not and little to do with our record. We have a bad roster stacked with terrible defenders and zero stability as no one aside from Boogie knows if they'll even be here come July.

I am not saying that Coach Malone isn't a good coach. He just isn't a very good offensive coach. Even when the team looked ok on offense it wasn't because they were running any kind of sets for players or that the ball movement was good. It was individual players making plays. Rudy Gay was making all of his ill-advised jumpers and Cousins was just running over people on his way to the basket. It wasn't because you had players running a good system it was because you had good players making tough plays.

The fact the he continues to let IT just dominate the offense, Keep Cousins out at the three point line and seems to only focus on defense in interviews and press conferences, even if the offense looked terrible makes me think he just isn't a very good offensive coach. The fact the he can't 3-4 open looks for the best (statistically) 3 point shooter in the NBA only adds to my belief.

 

[Npliam]

Don't have to be. Like I said 3 months one of us will still be here. Maybe a European team forum will then get the poor jimmer nightly routine

Yeah, he'll play in Europe next year. You are super smart.

 

[Entity]

Well I'm convinced. How about you coach Malone? Pete? Bueller? But.....but... These guys on kingsfans say he is really really good.

 

[Npliam]

Well I'm convinced. How about you coach Malone? Pete? Bueller? But.....but... These guys on kingsfans say he is really really good.

Nice strawman.......

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

You guys should make a sig bet, or something.

 

[Entity]

Nice strawman.......

So you don't think he is really really good?

 

[Entity]

You guys should make a sig bet, or something.

I have had die hard for a while. I suppose I could change it to die hard, jimmer fans

 

[Npliam]

So you don't think he is really really good?

Like I said, you really aren't very good at this. You go ahead and find 1 post of mine where I said that. It shouldn't be hard, I have been around for a while now.

 

[Entity]

Like I said, you really aren't very good at this. You go ahead and find 1 post of mine where I said that. It shouldn't be hard, I have been around for a while now.

So you do? Where's the straw man here?

 

[Npliam]

So you do? Where's the straw man here?

What? I think you might be drunk.....

 

[treach1976]

yeah... this is why it's fruitless to argue with Entity. Every single response is met with a strawman...

I also never said he was really really good either.... in fact, in this thread I've used the word "unproven", alluded to him being better than Ray (which isn't saying much), suggested he is worth back-up minutes, etc.

None of those say really really good. In fact, his best buddy from his BYU team said in an interview the other day that he doesn't see Jimmer as a star in the league... but that is much different than suggesting he doesn't belong.

The fact is, Entity is a troll and always has been.

 

[Entity]

yeah... this is why it's fruitless to argue with Entity. Every single response is met with a strawman...

I also never said he was really really good either.... in fact, in this thread I've used the word "unproven", alluded to him being better than Ray (which isn't saying much), suggested he is worth back-up minutes, etc.

None of those say really really good. In fact, his best buddy from his BYU team said in an interview the other day that he doesn't see Jimmer as a star in the league... but that is much different than suggesting he doesn't belong.

The fact is, Entity is a troll and always has been.

Troll for 14 years? All this because I think the exact same way the kings coaches and FO thinks about jimmer? Hate you feel that way guys but arguing about the talent level of jimmer is pointless. You want facts. Do you really want facts? Jimmer isn't good enough to get min from a ball hogging pg, a rookie pg a rookie sg a sg with attitude. All while being on a team headed for top 5 in the draft. If that doesn't prove a point to his talent level then nothing u can say will convince you. Troll for years? Yet neither of you were here before jimmer got here?

 

[Npliam]

Troll for 14 years? All this because I think the exact same way the kings coaches and FO thinks about jimmer? Hate you feel that way guys but arguing about the talent level of jimmer is pointless. You want facts. Do you really want facts? Jimmer isn't good enough to get min from a ball hogging pg, a rookie pg a rookie sg a sg with attitude. All while being on a team headed for top 5 in the draft. If that doesn't prove a point to his talent level then nothing u can say will convince you. Troll for years? Yet neither of you were here before jimmer got here?

None of those facts are actual facts. I am done with you.

 

[Entity]

I have never wanted a contract to end so bad. Not even Kenny Thomas lol

 

[mac]

Troll for 14 years? All this because I think the exact same way the kings coaches and FO thinks about jimmer? Hate you feel that way guys but arguing about the talent level of jimmer is pointless. You want facts. Do you really want facts? Jimmer isn't good enough to get min from a ball hogging pg, a rookie pg a rookie sg a sg with attitude. All while being on a team headed for top 5 in the draft. If that doesn't prove a point to his talent level then nothing u can say will convince you. Troll for years? Yet neither of you were here before jimmer got here?

Dude you're the one who is constantly picking fights with Liam (who for the most part has been a pretty good poster here), always making "jokes" about Jimmer and Jimmer fans in every other game thread. If that's not trolling I don't know what is. You don't actually attempt to discuss Jimmer in a basketball-related context, nor do you choose to simply ignore talking about Jimmer if he bothers you so much. In fact, you practically go out looking to start fights! It's not so much your viewpoint, which many others actually share to begin with, but it's your persistent ... really the only word I can think of is trolling ... that is messed up.

 

[Entity]

I'm sorry you feel that way