GoGoGadget
All-Star
Hell... at this point a mistake would at least imply action.
You say "quite yet" as if I woke up last week and suddenly decided that Petrie was doing a bad job. My opinion of him isn't the result of a recent process; it took me years of being dissatisfied with his performance before I gave up on Petrie!That makes no sense to me whatsoever S£im.
I'll admit Petrie has made some mistakes. That's not the point. The point is that a few around here act as though he's done nothing right, that every good move he made was either luck or so long ago that it doesn't matter, etc.
I'd like to know the name of even ONE general manager in the NBA who hasn't screwed up on occasion. Hindsight is 20/20. And it's real easy to sit in judgment on someone, especially when you don't have all the facts available. We don't know what deals he may have worked on that didn't come to fruition.
I'm not willing to throw him under the bus quite yet.
You say "quite yet" as if I woke up last week and suddenly decided that Petrie was doing a bad job. My opinion of him isn't the result of a recent process; it took me years of being dissatisfied with his performance before I gave up on Petrie!
You might be willing to give Petrie unlimited credit (or credit to some undetermined threshold, which amounts to the same thing AFAIC) because of what he did once, but I ain't the one.
'86 Drafted: #17 Harold Pressley
'86 Could have drafted: Arvydas Sabonis, Mark Price, Dennis Rodman, Nate McMillan, Kevin Duckworth, Jeff Hornacek
'86 If you Drafted #1: Brad Daugherty
'87 Drafted: #6 Kenny Smith
'87 Could have drafted: Kevin Johnson, Horace Grant, Reggie Miller, Mark Jackson, Reggie Lewis
'87 If you Drafted #1: David Robinson
'88 Drafted: #18 Ricky Berry (note we traded down to an indifferent draft position not worthy of our suck)
'88 Could Have Drafted: Rod Strickland
'88 If you Drafted #1: Mitch Richmond
'89 Drafted: #1 Pervis Ellison
'89 Could Have Drafted: Sean Elliot, Glen Rice, Tim Hardaway, Sean Kemp, Vlade Divac
'89 If you Drafted #1: Tim Hardaway
'90 Drafted: #7 Lionel Simmons, #14 Travis Mays, #18 Duane Causewell, #23 Anthony Bonner
'90 Could Have Drafted: Toni Kukoc, Cedric Ceballos, Jayson Williams, Elden Campbell, Antonio Davis, Tyrone Hill, Loy Vaught
'90 If you Drafted #1: Gary Payton
'91 Drafted: #3 Billy Ownes (for Golden State) --> Mitch Richmond
'91 Could Have Drafted: Mitch was the best possible outcome, but: Ditkembe Mutumbo, Steve Smith, Terrel Brandon
'91 If you Drafted #1: Ditkembe Mutumbo
'92 Drafted: #7 Walt Williams
'92 could Have Drafted: Latrell Sprewell
'92 If you Drafted #1: Shaquille O'Neal
'93 Drafted: #7 Bobby Hurley
'93 Could Have Drafted: Vin Baker, Allan Houston, Sam Cassel, Nick Van Exel
'93 If you Drafted #1: Chris Webber
'94 Drafted: #8 Brian Grant
'94 Could Have drafted: Eddie Jones, Jalen Rose
'94 If you Drafted #1: Jason Kidd
If you think that the Moore signing is the only thing that Petrie has done wrong, then we have nothing to discuss; it would be a waste of my time to try and reason with you when we clearly have diametrically different points of view regarding what a good move is and what a bad move is.So what exactly has petrie done WRONG, minus the Moore signing?
I don't know, and you don't either, but I don't trust that anecdotal remarks about whoever was out there were the only offers made or attempted. The only person who knows what was offered and who really was available is Petrie himself; but the difference is that you're willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he exhausted all means, and I am not. As far as I'm concerned, he doesn't deserve it.What trades were available that he didn't pull the trigger on...
I gave Petrie a pass in 2004 for the knee. I gave him a pass in 2005... It's about to be 2008; he's all out of passes from this quarter.The fact IS, the Kings are in this situation because of the Chris Webber injury..had he not injured his knee we realistically have at least 1 maybe up to three titles at this point.
It's equally ignorant to try to lay all the blame at the feet of the Maloofs; you can't possibly expect people to believe that Petrie's had nothing to do with it. As far as what's been recorded "many" times, you and I clearly have different definitions of "many."... I think it's ignorant to blame this all on Petrie when it's been recorded many times that he was willing to pull the trigger on deals available to him to overhaul a rebuild, but the MALOOFS were unwilling to begin that yet. Pinning this ALL on Petrie is unfair and frankly ignorant, at best, on your part.
ZZE916;500846 The fact that we [I said:could[/I] have drafted them, only proves other teams passed on them also. They all turned out to be fine players, but hindisght is...
Only one GM wins the championship each year. That does not make the rest incompetent (generally speaking). I think what's really in play here is the concept of drafting for need, vs. drafting the best player available...and that's quite a quandry.
I am trying to fathom what you are implying here, and am arriving at the rather frightening conclusion that in an effort to discredit the draft you are now arguing for our competence through those years.
And let me just tell you up front, NOBODY argues for our competence through those years.
Any front office can miss in any given year. Only a laughingstock can miss for a decade straight.
I don't want to get too confrontational, but Jerry actually did do all the drafting and trading the previous 4 seasons, he was Director of Player Personnel from the time that we fired Bill Russell in 1989 and when we hired Geoff Petrie in 1993. He was making all the basketball decisions during those years...as we didnt have a GM making those decisions back then.
edit: oh, and notice I didnt mention the Smith trade or Sampson debacle...he wasnt making the basketball decisions then, Joe Axelson made the Smith trade, and Bill Russell made the Sampson trade.
2005 - Deron Williams, Chris Paul
2004 - Dwight Howard, Emeka Okafor, Ben Gordon, Andre Iguodala
2003 - Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade, TJ Ford
2002 - Yao Ming, Amare Stoudemire, Drew Gooden, Caron Butler
2001 - Pau Gasol, Jason Richardson, Gilbert Arenas, Kwame Brown
2000 - Kenyon Martin, Mike Miller
1999 - Elton Brand, Ron Artest, Baron Davis, Lamar Odom, Shawn Marion
We've had lottery picks such as Pervis Ellison, Joe Kleine, Bobby Hurley and Corliss Williamson. How far did they get us?
No, he was actually the one who did the drafting and trading from the end of 1989 until 1993 when we hired Petrie...Gregg Lukenbill and Rick Benner(former team Pres.)gave him the power to do all those things as Dir. of Player Personnel, and he did. I think you might be thinking of Dick Motta, perhaps...all he was was one of the worst things to ever happen to this franchise since they've been in Sacramento. I dont know what was worse, the Dick Motta year or the Muss year. I had pain after both, that's all I knowFar be it for me to trust my memory, but I was under the impression that Maca was responsible for the Causwell draft. May have his name mispelled. I have a mental block about that time. I'm not sure that Jerry ever really had much power when it came to making the final decisions. As director of player personnel, I always thought his main job was scouting players and making recommedations. I could be wrong.
If you think that the Moore signing is the only thing that Petrie has done wrong, then we have nothing to discuss; it would be a waste of my time to try and reason with you when we clearly have diametrically different points of view regarding what a good move is and what a bad move is.
I don't know, and you don't either, but I don't trust that anecdotal remarks about whoever was out there were the only offers made or attempted. The only person who knows what was offered and who really was available is Petrie himself; but the difference is that you're willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he exhausted all means, and I am not. As far as I'm concerned, he doesn't deserve it.
I gave Petrie a pass in 2004 for the knee. I gave him a pass in 2005... It's about to be 2008; he's all out of passes from this quarter.
It's equally ignorant to try to lay all the blame at the feet of the Maloofs; you can't possibly expect people to believe that Petrie's had nothing to do with it. As far as what's been recorded "many" times, you and I clearly have different definitions of "many."
I don't believe this is true. I'm sure it seems that way because of the matter-of-fact tone of some posters, or because many people make a one sentence comment about his good moves buried within a long post about why he's been performing poorly. But when you're arguing that specific decisions are bad of course you aren't going to spend a lot of time on the other good decisions that were made.The point is that a few around here act as though he's done nothing right, that every good move he made was either luck or so long ago that it doesn't matter, etc.
No, he was actually the one who did the drafting and trading from the end of 1989 until 1993 when we hired Petrie...Gregg Lukenbill and Rick Benner(former team Pres.)gave him the power to do all those things as Dir. of Player Personnel, and he did. I think you might be thinking of Dick Motta, perhaps...all he was was one of the worst things to ever happen to this franchise since they've been in Sacramento. I dont know what was worse, the Dick Motta year or the Muss year. I had pain after both, that's all I know![]()
I don't believe this is true. I'm sure it seems that way because of the matter-of-fact tone of some posters, or because many people make a one sentence comment about his good moves buried within a long post about why he's been performing poorly. But when you're arguing that specific decisions are bad of course you aren't going to spend a lot of time on the other good decisions that were made.
Feel free to send me a PM with actual names. I still don't believe it.Actually you are wrong....VF21 is correct in saying that a few of the posters are basically saying that Petrie has either been lucky, fortunate or has fallen into a good move because of someone else'sdecision, etc,etc....he's literally done nothing right. That is what some people think.....for what its worth.
Feel free to send me a PM with actual names. I still don't believe it.
Feel free to send me a PM with actual names. I still don't believe it.
Where in my post did I lay ALL blame on the Maloofs, I'm merely stating they play a role in the decision making process. The Maloofs have DEFINITELY been more involved with team transactions the past 3 years or so and that's exactly when the team continued to make a downward spiral...When things were left up to Petrie almost solely is when the team make significant progress each year.
Oh yeah, Motta gave me a year-long headache when he was our coach.Yep, Motta was the guy. Now that you have revived my memory, I have a headache..
As far as the worst coaches in the history of this franchise in Sacramento, he has to be in the top 3...in no particular order probably consisting of Motta, Muss and Russell. Hell, even though we lost a truck load of games while Reynolds was at the helm, it wasn't as painful as the other three, there was at least a LITTLE fun when he was coach when we had Ainge, Tisdale, Carr, Kenny Smith, and the bunch.
I was at that game!Reynolds is perhaps the only coach in the history of the NBA to get a technical for passing out.
So what exactly has petrie done WRONG, minus the Moore signing? What trades were available that he didn't pull the trigger on, whet FA's could have been signed that would have? What picks were available that he passed on. The fact IS, the Kings are in this situation because of the Chris Webber injury..had he not injured his knee we realistically have at least 1 maybe up to three titles at this point. Our declining players(Bibby/Brad) would still have higer values because they'd be 3rd and 4th on the totem pole(proper roles) rather than 2nd and 3rd which takes them out of their element. there values at this level increase their trade value and just like he did with Christie, Pollard and other past, he'd sell them a year too early, rather than a year too late.
I think it's ignorant to blame this all on Petrie when it's been recorded many times that he was willing to pull the trigger on deals available to him to overhaul a rebuild, but the MALOOFS were unwilling to begin that yet. Pinning this ALL on Petrie is unfair and frankly ignorant, at best, on your part.
me tooI was at that game!![]()
I was at that game!![]()
Sweet!Same here.
yes!Sweet!Oh, if I'm not mistaken, wasnt it snowing outside Arco that night, too?(if I remember right)
Sweet!Oh, if I'm not mistaken, wasnt it snowing outside Arco that night, too?(if I remember right)
edit: I was in the 'standing room' seats for that game, back when we sold out everything, even when we sucked! lol It was all still exciting, nonetheless, I met half the Blazer team after the game, too...got Clyde, Porter, Duckworth and Kiki's autograph.