Monte and Trades - Split off from Davion Thread

[pdxKingsFan]

Yeah, it's also kind of strange how the timelines are working out. The thing is though, this team is actually farther along in terms of build than that team in reality. Petrie had an older star in the early years and had to trade to get a younger one. Monte already had Fox. Also it was the next few moves that put Petrie's team over the top. Petrie didn't stop and say, nope, we're set. Big Nasty is worth too much to move. Can't touch J-Will, we'll just get better internally. Of course, they did have a few years of intel before hand. The Kings weren't built for playoff ball at that point. Petrie made those decisions to push the team forward. That's kind of where Monte is now.

I brought this up in the summer I think, that team that made the Western conference finals? Peja, Hedo, and Bibby were all around Keegans age. Domas is right around the same age as Webber was the year the Kings nearly won it all. Put that into perspective and Monte needs to know his timeline. This team is ready to start winning for real right now. And that's why I think he's being so aggressive in trying to finish this off.

When it comes to moving J-Will for Bibby - which was the move that put us squarely over and should have won us a chip - that was after 3 years with J-Will. That's the reason I say let's have patience for the right move, not just make a move to make a move.

Petrie did that in the first 2 years too, most of the moves sucked and we've forgotten them. Nick the Brick for Tariq Abdul-Wahad AND a future first?

 

[SacTownKid]

When it comes to moving J-Will for Bibby - which was the move that put us squarely over and should have won us a chip - that was after 3 years with J-Will. That's the reason I say let's have patience for the right move, not just make a move to make a move.

Petrie did that in the first 2 years too, most of the moves sucked and we've forgotten them. Nick the Brick for Tariq Abdul-Wahad AND a future first?

I agree, but time is ticking. While there is a little give timing wise, like I said, a bunch of that teams main core was around Keegans age the year they were ready to put rings on. The Kings squandered a lot of time prior to Monte and now Monte has to account for that because here he is, his cap is within a stones throw of this new first apron as early as this summer. Also that Kings team didn't have two max contracts on the books. Webber and Vlade were the big cap hits but the give that Petrie had with Hedo, Peja, and Bibby isn't there with Monte. If Monte re-signs Monk to that max amount that's basically it as far as wiggle room. Even using the MLE from here on would be a struggle.

 

[Telemachus]

I feel like I'm holding Monte above the standard Geoff Petrie set. Geoff was hired in 1994 and it took until 99 (ok let's call it 98 though games weren't played in fall of 98 - but 5 NBA seasons) for the Kings to become a perennial playoff team.

Monte is only in his 4th year and it feels like we are in year 2 of being a team built for long term success. Some people expect us to be at the 2002 level Kings already. It took 4 seasons with Vlade/Webber/Peja and Coach Adelman to get to that magical 01-02 season.

Another thing some are missing is they finished 7th in '98 (50 games), but finished 8th in '99.

 

[sactowndog]

You are so fixated on this tiebreaker try to step out your box for a minute. If the Kings traded Barnes as you said at the deadline that year for Nesmith and a 1st, they would be a worse team by a decent margin right? Therefore they would very likely not be in a tiebreaker situation for 8/9/10 and probably be in the 5/6/7 range. This changes the odds for every team in the lottery. So no you can’t subtract Barnes and say the Kings would have lost at least 1 more game to win the tiebreaker and end up with the 7th or 8th pick to get Kuminga or Wagner because none of this plays out as it did if the Kings go thru with that deal.

they would not have enough games to make up enough to get to 7 much less six unless they sat everyone which they wouldn’t do. Barnes would have been traded at the deadline not start of season.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Another thing some are missing is they finished 7th in '98 (50 games), but finished 8th in '99.

6th, actually in the strike shortened 99 season and 8 in the 99-00.
I've pointed that out too, but right now I'm terrified of finishing 8 and getting bounced from the playoffs via play-in so scrubbing that memory.

It would be no big deal but this draft feels like a turd so I want to convey that pick to ATL now.

 

[sactowndog]

Monte also did have a trade with Bog and it got blown up because Bogi screwed us with the leak

again that’s on Monte. He choose to tell Bogi. Not all GM’s do

 

[sactowndog]

I don't agree with him, but I gotta admire sactowndog pretty much going against everyone in the thread in a calm and measured fashion.

It's pretty rare these days (especially online) to have civil discourse rather than childish arguments!

Hopefully Monte can win him over one day, because that would mean the Kings are truly kicking butt with how high his standards are*!

*and there's nothing wrong with having high standards either, although I'll be the first to admit mine have dropped precipitously after the abomination of the Pete to Vlade era.

well to be fair you should credit the whole board. Civil discourse is a 2 way street.

 

[sactowndog]

If I were Monte, I would have merely not had Bogi leak the Bucks trade AND also have convinced the Lakers to trade Kuzma and KCP for Buddy instead of Russell Westbrook.

so again Monte didn’t have to tell Bogi and choose to. Also being a good trader means knowing when you are being played. The people I know said Monte is being played and that trade will never happen. They turned out to be correct to my disappointment. .

 

[sactowndog]

We live in the age of instant gratification for sure. I remember people were calling for Monte's head after his first summer here. And what did Vlade leave him to work with? Fox, HB, 2 flawed sub-all star SGs, a late lotto pick and terrible coaching.

Let Monte cook, and let this roster grow together with continuity!

one of those people was me because Monte was not choosing a direction. We shall see how that turns out. But Monte has never committed to a rebuild and can’t know. We shall see in 3 years how successful we can be with that approach.

 

[Telemachus]

again that’s on Monte. He choose to tell Bogi. Not all GM’s do

We don't know that he told Bogi. It is much more likely that his agent told him.

 

[SacTownKid]

Well, besides all that if I recall Monte was treading in dangerous territory there anyway. He really didn't have any right to be making a trade like that. The Bucks got punished for that ordeal. Monte might have been lucky he didn't get in trouble as well.

 

[macadocious]

Guys, it was a proposed sign and trade, of course he told him! Lol. What are we doing here?

 

[Section 101]

Guys, it was a proposed sign and trade, of course he told him! Lol. What are we doing here?

Wait a player has to know about a sign and trade? You sure Monte couldnt use a Jedi mind trick on Bogi?

It was most likely Bogi's agent or the bucks who brought the trade to Monte. Gm's don't go looking for sign and trades for their free agents.

 

[hrdboild]

I bet the folks in the league office were just as surprised by Atlanta filing that formal complaint against the Bogi to Milwaukee sign and trade as any of the involved parties were. Every year there are a couple dozen deals that happen within 5 minutes of free agency beginning. Did they all get negotiated in 5 minutes? Of course not. Yet the league office turns a blind eye because every team, player, and agent is negotiating to get the best deal for themselves and what's the difference really if it happens before or after a certain date as long as these negotiations come to an amicable conclusion?

But if you're in the league office and that piece of paper (or whatever) from Atlanta comes in, you still have to honor the letter of the law even if what you're thinking in your head is "oh, we're actually doing this Atlanta? this is the one deal that you have a problem with for some reason?" It was a selfish move by that Atlanta front office to take advantage of a technicality to blow up a deal that everyone else was happy with and they've been rewarded for their hubris with a team that peaked too soon (losing in the Eastern Conference Finals as a 5 seed in 2021) and has floundered ever since.

 

[SacTownKid]

Wait a player has to know about a sign and trade? You sure Monte couldnt use a Jedi mind trick on Bogi?

It was most likely Bogi's agent or the bucks who brought the trade to Monte. Gm's don't go looking for sign and trades for their free agents.

I think the Bucks lost a draft pick so my guess is the result of that investigation was the Bucks did. This was probably before they had the right to discuss a trade like that considering Bogdan was a FA.

 

[The_Jamal]

again that’s on Monte. He choose to tell Bogi. Not all GM’s do

... sigh.

Whatever

 

[TheMobb]

they would not have enough games to make up enough to get to 7 much less six unless they sat everyone which they wouldn’t do. Barnes would have been traded at the deadline not start of season.

There were 30 or so games left so can’t rule it out is my point. Maurice Harkless would’ve more than likely been starting and playing 30+ mins per game.

 

[sactowndog]

There were 30 or so games left so can’t rule it out is my point. Maurice Harkless would’ve more than likely been starting and playing 30+ mins per game.

right but those teams were actively trying to lose except Minn. You maybe catch them but still unlikely. Lottery odds at that time were heavily weighted top 4. You had zero chance of catching those teams. So yes you can’t rule it out but your chances of anything other than 8 and maybe 7 were extremely small.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Well, besides all that if I recall Monte was treading in dangerous territory there anyway. He really didn't have any right to be making a trade like that. The Bucks got punished for that ordeal. Monte might have been lucky he didn't get in trouble as well.

The Kings have the right to negotiate their own restricted free agent before the signing period. The Bucks did not have the right to negotiate, which they apparently did. All negotiations needed to come through the Kings.

 

[SacTownKid]

The Kings have the right to negotiate their own restricted free agent before the signing period. The Bucks did not have the right to negotiate, which they apparently did. All negotiations needed to come through the Kings.

Yeah but can they put together a sign and trade before hand? Obviously the Kings skated so it was deemed OK, but you never know with the NBA lol.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Yeah but can they put together a sign and trade before hand? Obviously the Kings skated so it was deemed OK, but you never know with the NBA lol.

I think the issue specifically came because Bogi's camp said something that tipped off that the player and agent were in direct contact with the Bucks when agreeing to terms (which apparently they then un-agreed to because Atlanta upped their offer - and Atlanta probably also cheated by making contact after the news broke but before the official signing period so the fact they "won" but have been met with a swift blow of karma is the best thing to come of this).