Jason Jones’ Most Recent Kings Article in the Athletic

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#1
Good article. A few thoughts:

1. Jason Jones is pushing hard for Scott Perry. Again, what exactly did Perry accomplish during his time with the Kings?

2. Joeger never respected Vlade. And too bad Joeger was unable to trade Buddy last year. Hindsight, Joeger was right.

3. D’Alessandro looks better in hindsight as the scapegoat for Vivek’s decision to fire Malone.

4. Luke Borm basically jumping ship. Makes sense, since the Kings recent moves were more gut feel than data driven decisions.

5. A long article, which revealed a few skeletons. Jones tiptoed around it, but he basically painted Vlade and company as lazy. Came in unprepared and never put in the work to become competent. Feel even better now about Vlade’s departure.

Here’s the link (paywall): https://theathletic.com/1999044/202...-of-turnover-chaos-in-the-kings-front-office/
 
#2
I dont think Vlade was lazy he just doesn't have the feel for the game at the front office level. Backdoor cuts and quick turn around flip shots are more his thing. The fan base was clamoring for Luka but his gut said otherwise and he was wrong. Same with papagiannis ect ect. I still love Vlade the player but hate Vlade the GM. Jury is still out with Marvin I basically count this season as a TNP.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
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#3
Good article. A few thoughts:

1. Jason Jones is pushing hard for Scott Perry. Again, what exactly did Perry accomplish during his time with the Kings?
Well he was here for less than three months, so pretty hard to say. He was around for the Fox/Jackson/Giles/Mason draft, though I don't recall any definitive statements as to his level of influence in those decisions.
 
#5
Well he was here for less than three months, so pretty hard to say. He was around for the Fox/Jackson/Giles/Mason draft, though I don't recall any definitive statements as to his level of influence in those decisions.
The two common talking points from Jones and Ham are:

1. Perry was the main reason for the George Hill, Zbo, Vince Carter signings, which makes no sense to me. Those signings were good? What planet do they live in?

2. And Fox. When the entire Kings nation wanted Fox.

Those two items are why Perry is getting hype. I simply do not get it. At all.
 
#7
The two common talking points from Jones and Ham are:

1. Perry was the main reason for the George Hill, Zbo, Vince Carter signings, which makes no sense to me. Those signings were good? What planet do they live in?

2. And Fox. When the entire Kings nation wanted Fox.

Those two items are why Perry is getting hype. I simply do not get it. At all.
He’s getting credit for Fox haha laughable that draft was built with a top 5 in one tier and guess what we had the 5th pick. The way the draft went who the **** would we have took over fox
 
#10
I didn’t get the sense from the article that Jones was pushing for Perry more than anyone else. From what I recall, he’s brought up Dee Brown multiple times on his podcast and in his pieces.
Hope you’re right. Seems to be a coordinated PR push for Perry amongst Kings reporters. Can very well be Perry trying to find a parachute for his inevitable firing in NYC.
 
#11
Hope you’re right. Seems to be a coordinated PR push for Perry amongst Kings reporters. Can very well be Perry trying to find a parachute for his inevitable firing in NYC.
I think part of it is that Perry seems like somewhat of a natural fit: he worked for Dumars before, and he worked here before. He seems very well connected around the league, and I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of the media folks got to know him and like him personally. I’ll even admit I felt good about bringing him in after listening to his podcast with Woj right about the time he joined the front office. You could very well be right though.
 
#12
Here's some snippets from Jones article today: https://theathletic.com/1999044/202...-of-turnover-chaos-in-the-kings-front-office/

"Dumars could look back to his time running the Pistons and try to convince someone such as Perry to return to the Kings. He was with Sacramento for about three months before leaving to be the Knicks’ general manager....This changed in April 2017 when Perry joined the front office. His reputation and connections allowed the Kings to bring in top prospects for draft workouts and meetings. Perry left in July 2017 to become the Knicks general manager, a position he still holds."

And an article from 8/14/20 with Amick: https://theathletic.com/1997794/2020/08/14/behind-the-scenes-what-led-to-the-kings-and-vlade-divac-parting-ways/

"The most experienced executive the Kings would land was Scott Perry in April 2017. He was hired as vice president of basketball operations. Perry also worked under Dumars in Detroit, and league sources said it would not be a surprise to see Dumars reach out to Perry, who left the Kings in July 2017 to become general manager of the New York Knicks. During Perry’s brief stint in Sacramento, the Kings gained a level of respectability because of his connections and experience. The Knicks, however, are also undergoing a restructuring under new executive Leon Rose, and Perry might be able to move on from what he’d called his dream job to reunite with Dumars."

Here's James Ham: https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/kings/kings-gm-search-12-candidates-who-could-replace-vlade-divac

Perry joined Divac’s staff before the 2017 NBA Draft and instantly made an impact for the franchise. Where the team struggled to get top flight prospects in for workouts in previous seasons, Perry’s ties around the league changed that issue in a hurry.
He played a role in drafting De’Aaron Fox, Justin Jackson, Harry Giles and Frank Mason, although only Fox is still guaranteed to be around next season. He also worked the phones and helped land George Hill, Zach Randolph and Vince Carter in free agency. After just three months on the job, a dream opportunity of running the New York Knicks came up for Perry and he left Sacramento on good terms. He’s still in New York, but the Knicks have reset their front office in the same way that the Kings are. Is there a possibility of him coming back to the west coast to work for Dumars, who he worked with for over a decade in Detroit? He should be high on any list the Kings are assembling.

Sounds like both Ham and Jones are quoting from the same "source"
 
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#13
I think part of it is that Perry seems like somewhat of a natural fit: he worked for Dumars before, and he worked here before. He seems very well connected around the league, and I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of the media folks got to know him and like him personally. I’ll even admit I felt good about bringing him in after listening to his podcast with Woj right about the time he joined the front office. You could very well be right though.
I get the natural connection to Dumars, given their working history. But per the quotes above, it just seems to be a coordinated spin job from either the Kings or Perry himself.

Either way, the examples (Fox, the signings) of why he should be a high priority get makes no sense to me. And him having league connections is less of an issue, given Dumars 14 years as a GM and the fact that pretty much anyone who gets that job should be someone with league connections.
 
#18
We hire Scott Perry and I’m not supporting the team anymore enough is enough I’d become a Knick’s fan
You should have the same attitude toward Sam freaking Hinkie, but, sadly, you don't.

IDK what type of GM Perry would be for the KINGS but he does have good connections and a good reputation around the league. Far better than Hinkie.

There's good reason why that dude still doesn't have a job in the NBA after over 4 years now. Let me say it again. Over 4 years.

If he was any freaking good or respected, there's no chance he'd still be out of the league this long.

Lots of fans here like to use and overuse the 'KANGZ' term, which I personally have always found to be stupid. But I'll use it here because it would be very 'KANGZ' to hire a dude that has been out of the league that long whose only claim to fame is fielding the worst teams he could to then play a game of craps -- which would be even harder to accomplish now than it was 5 years ago.
 
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#19
The two common talking points from Jones and Ham are:

1. Perry was the main reason for the George Hill, Zbo, Vince Carter signings, which makes no sense to me. Those signings were good? What planet do they live in?
Without a stable team and already a proven winner, when has a KINGS GM done better in FA?

George Hill didn't play well here, but he's always been a very solid player. And played a key role for good teams.

Besides, you completely missed the point of those signings. It was to provide the newly found youth with solid veteran role models. It wasn't about those vet players being overly productive.

Additionally, it also goes to demonstrate the connections Perry had around the league. None of those players would have signed w/ SAC beforehand.

2. And Fox. When the entire Kings nation wanted Fox.

Those two items are why Perry is getting hype. I simply do not get it. At all.
We wanted #77 just as much. But did that happen?

You can't take away credit for doing something good whether you believe it was a no-brainer or not. Because taking #77 was a no-brainer too but, again, it didn't happen. So credit for actually taking FOX needs to be given.
 
#21
You should have the same attitude toward Sam freaking Hinkie, but, sadly, you don't.

IDK what type of GM Perry would be for the KINGS but he does have good connections and a good reputation around the league. Far better than Hinkie.

There's good reason why that dude still doesn't have a job in the NBA after over 4 years now. Let me say it again. Over 4 years.

If he was any freaking good or respected, there's no chance he'd still be out of the league this long.

Lots of fans here like to use and overuse the 'KANGZ' term, which I personally have always found to be stupid. But I'll use it here because it would be very 'KANGZ' to hire a dude that has been out of the league that long whose only claim to fame is fielding the worst teams he could to then play a game of craps -- which would be even harder to accomplish now than it was 5 years ago.
Haha We just hired a guy who hasn’t had a job in 6 years, Hinkie is blacklisted because he found a hole in the league system.

When Hinkie got to Philadelphia they had Thaddeus Young, Jrue Holiday, Hayes, Turner, Levoy Allen, and Mourtriee. For draft picks they only had there own picks and no other teams picks. In three year Hinkie got Philadelphia Saric, Noel, Stauskas, Jermai Grant, Korkmaz, Covington and Okafor. Five of those guys are key role players on contending team so he obviously knows how to draft. Now onto draft picks after not having any extra picks outside of there own Hinkie got Philadelphia six first round picks, six he did this with the limited assists he had started with.

Hinkie doesn’t have a job because he’s mediocre he doesn’t have a job because he found they only way to be good is to be bad. The nba doesn’t want teams to outright tank as it might look bad for the league. Philadelphia is now a possible contender after only having Holiday, Young, and Turner as true assets when Hinkie took over.


Oh how did I forget Hinkie got Philadelphia Embiid/Simmons.


And you seem to not give Hinkie credit so I ask who do you give responsibility for Philadelphia being a playoff team? Can’t wait for your answer cause it’s gonna be different than the answer 99% of sizers fans would give
 
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#24
Haha We just hired a guy who hasn’t had a job in 6 years, Hinkie is blacklisted because he found a hole in the league system.

When Hinkie got to Philadelphia they had Thaddeus Young, Jrue Holiday, Hayes, Turner, Levoy Allen, and Mourtriee. For draft picks they only had there own picks and no other teams picks. In three year Hinkie got Philadelphia Saric, Noel, Stauskas, Jermai Grant, Korkmaz, Covington and Okafor. Five of those guys are key role players on contending team so he obviously knows how to draft. Now onto draft picks after not having any extra picks outside of there own Hinkie got Philadelphia six first round picks, six he did this with the limited assists he had started with.

Hinkie doesn’t have a job because he’s mediocre he doesn’t have a job because he found they only way to be good is to be bad. The nba doesn’t want teams to outright tank as it might look bad for the league. Philadelphia is now a possible contender after only having Holiday, Young, and Turner as true assets when Hinkie took over.


Oh how did I forget Hinkie got Philadelphia Embiid/Simmons.


And you seem to not give Hinkie credit so I ask who do you give responsibility for Philadelphia being a playoff team? Can’t wait for your answer cause it’s gonna be different than the answer 99% of sizers fans would give

You are absolutely wasting your time spelling it out for him. Nuance and context are not things they understand or value.

I'm not even set on Hinkie. There's some other interesting options out there. But Dumars or Scott Perry over him would be typical of the incompetent decision making that has had us in the gutter for almost a decade and a half.
 
#25
You are absolutely wasting your time spelling it out for him. Nuance and context are not things they understand or value.

I'm not even set on Hinkie. There's some other interesting options out there. But Dumars or Scott Perry over him would be typical of the incompetent decision making that has had us in the gutter for almost a decade and a half.
Absolutely, and I don’t think we get a guy like Hinkie when he’s gonna have to answer to Dumars. We’d have to hope for the Toronto guy to come in
 
#26
You are absolutely wasting your time spelling it out for him. Nuance and context are not things they understand or value.

I'm not even set on Hinkie. There's some other interesting options out there. But Dumars or Scott Perry over him would be typical of the incompetent decision making that has had us in the gutter for almost a decade and a half.
When a guy is praising Perry for signing Zbo and George Hill, you should stop reading.
 
#28
Without a stable team and already a proven winner, when has a KINGS GM done better in FA?

George Hill didn't play well here, but he's always been a very solid player. And played a key role for good teams.

Besides, you completely missed the point of those signings. It was to provide the newly found youth with solid veteran role models. It wasn't about those vet players being overly productive.

Additionally, it also goes to demonstrate the connections Perry had around the league. None of those players would have signed w/ SAC beforehand.



We wanted #77 just as much. But did that happen?

You can't take away credit for doing something good whether you believe it was a no-brainer or not. Because taking #77 was a no-brainer too but, again, it didn't happen. So credit for actually taking FOX needs to be given.
1. It's a low bar to say Hill, Zbo, and Vince were positive signings because other GMs did so much worse. They were MEH signings at best. Certainly wouldn't be on any other GM's resume.

2. Picking Fox at #5 was the universal option. Now, had Perry convinced Vlade to pick Fox and then Mitchell at #10 then maybe we have something. Instead the Kings traded #10 (Zach Collins) for Giles and Jackson. Both Giles and JJ are going to be off the roster by 2021. Full disclosure: I liked the trade down for Giles and JJ. Would've loved it had they got Giles and Anouby. JJ wasn't on my radar at all.

3. League connections, experience...should be bare minimum requirements for any new GM. Those criteria were more of a thing when Vlade and Peja were leading the FO, but Dumars has 14 years as a GM (assuming he stays on). Why is that such a need now?

4. Ultimately, I think you're going to get your wish. No Hinkie, no outside the box, young, creative GM. We'll likely get Dumars + Perry. And basically another 5 years of doing the same old, same old.

5. One thing that would pique my interest is if Dumars gets Isiah Thomas in a scout/player development role. Thomas the GM was meh, but Thomas the talent scout? That dude was legit--Tracy Mcgrady, Damon Stoudamire, acquiring Doug Christie, finding 10 year pros from late first/second rounders (Trevor Ariza, Nate Robinson...)....
 
#29
1. It's a low bar to say Hill, Zbo, and Vince were positive signings because other GMs did so much worse. They were MEH signings at best. Certainly wouldn't be on any other GM's resume.

2. Picking Fox at #5 was the universal option. Now, had Perry convinced Vlade to pick Fox and then Mitchell at #10 then maybe we have something. Instead the Kings traded #10 (Zach Collins) for Giles and Jackson. Both Giles and JJ are going to be off the roster by 2021. Full disclosure: I liked the trade down for Giles and JJ. Would've loved it had they got Giles and Anouby. JJ wasn't on my radar at all.

3. League connections, experience...should be bare minimum requirements for any new GM. Those criteria were more of a thing when Vlade and Peja were leading the FO, but Dumars has 14 years as a GM (assuming he stays on). Why is that such a need now?

4. Ultimately, I think you're going to get your wish. No Hinkie, no outside the box, young, creative GM. We'll likely get Dumars + Perry. And basically another 5 years of doing the same old, same old.

5. One thing that would pique my interest is if Dumars gets Isiah Thomas in a scout/player development role. Thomas the GM was meh, but Thomas the talent scout? That dude was legit--Tracy Mcgrady, Damon Stoudamire, acquiring Doug Christie, finding 10 year pros from late first/second rounders (Trevor Ariza, Nate Robinson...)....
Would you trust Isiah Thomas not to get you into legal problems? That is the last thing this team needs.
 
#30
1. It's a low bar to say Hill, Zbo, and Vince were positive signings because other GMs did so much worse. They were MEH signings at best. Certainly wouldn't be on any other GM's resume.

2. Picking Fox at #5 was the universal option. Now, had Perry convinced Vlade to pick Fox and then Mitchell at #10 then maybe we have something. Instead the Kings traded #10 (Zach Collins) for Giles and Jackson. Both Giles and JJ are going to be off the roster by 2021. Full disclosure: I liked the trade down for Giles and JJ. Would've loved it had they got Giles and Anouby. JJ wasn't on my radar at all.

3. League connections, experience...should be bare minimum requirements for any new GM. Those criteria were more of a thing when Vlade and Peja were leading the FO, but Dumars has 14 years as a GM (assuming he stays on). Why is that such a need now?

4. Ultimately, I think you're going to get your wish. No Hinkie, no outside the box, young, creative GM. We'll likely get Dumars + Perry. And basically another 5 years of doing the same old, same old.

5. One thing that would pique my interest is if Dumars gets Isiah Thomas in a scout/player development role. Thomas the GM was meh, but Thomas the talent scout? That dude was legit--Tracy Mcgrady, Damon Stoudamire, acquiring Doug Christie, finding 10 year pros from late first/second rounders (Trevor Ariza, Nate Robinson...)....
No, these were straight stupid signings. All that money could have been invested in taking on bad contracts for future assets. IIRC, this was the year the Raptors were giving away their first round pick for someone to take Carroll off their hands. Of course, the Nets jumped all over it. Those sort of deals are pretty much available every single year as contenders want to shed their dead-weight in order to sign a FA who can potentially get them over the top.

T.J Warren and pick 32 were traded this past summer for literally nothing to the Pacers is another one we missed on. We instead sign Trevor Ariza for the same price and eventually have to dump him 30 games into the contract. I think we'd have been a much more attractive team to trade with too because we have so many future 2nds that at least would have given the Suns some value in return as opposed to nothing.
 
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