Athletic Article On the Kings Today

#1
A few thoughts:

1. Fair and balanced.

2. Luka debate ain't ever going away.

3. Bags and Hield issues are there. Read between the lines: "The mystery surrounding his (Bags') injury hasn’t helped matters when it comes to the way Bagley is perceived in some key circles."..."But Hield’s situation remains one Divac has to monitor. If Hield remains displeased with his role, a source with knowledge of his thinking said he might request a trade."

4. Why is MK a part of hoops discussions?

5. The seat is getting HOT.

It's time for new leadership.

See here: https://theathletic.com/1601626/202...es-group-text-chats-and-luka-doncic-what-ifs/

Wonder what how Vivek will feel if/when STR gets their billboard up?
 
#6
A lot to digest here. My initial thought is: good. Vivek should be upset. Some will say this is Vivek meddling again, but it’s not meddling to hold your employees accountable when they fail to perform to expectations. I will say I’d rather not have all this come out midseason, though.
These pieces are timed with the games we play Dallas. Gets extra clicks when you can play with people's emotions.
 
#7
A few thoughts:

1. Fair and balanced.

2. Luka debate ain't ever going away.

3. Bags and Hield issues are there. Read between the lines: "The mystery surrounding his (Bags') injury hasn’t helped matters when it comes to the way Bagley is perceived in some key circles."..."But Hield’s situation remains one Divac has to monitor. If Hield remains displeased with his role, a source with knowledge of his thinking said he might request a trade."

4. Why is MK a part of hoops discussions?

5. The seat is getting HOT.

It's time for new leadership.

See here: https://theathletic.com/1601626/202...es-group-text-chats-and-luka-doncic-what-ifs/

Wonder what how Vivek will feel if/when STR gets their billboard up?
The billboard is a dumb idea. It is by a vocal minority (I'll say a handful) of those who post comments and their billboard is calling for Vivek to step down and to fire Vlade too.

Their billboard idea won't move the needle. It is just a waste of time, energy and money. No one with any kind of influence is supporting the idea which is why they're no where near what they need for donations but maybe they could pay for one day's worth.

Last month I sat near Vivek during a game and he showed how upset he was after a loss.

Yes, the Kings suck despite the injuries. I would imagine if things continue to go down the toilet then I would expect changes to be made a year from now.
 
#8
The billboard is a dumb idea. It is by a vocal minority (I'll say a handful) of those who post comments and their billboard is calling for Vivek to step down and to fire Vlade too.

Their billboard idea won't move the needle. It is just a waste of time, energy and money. No one with any kind of influence is supporting the idea which is why they're no where near what they need for donations but maybe they could pay for one day's worth.

Last month I sat near Vivek during a game and he showed how upset he was after a loss.

Yes, the Kings suck despite the injuries. I would imagine if things continue to go down the toilet then I would expect changes to be made a year from now.
I am glad you said this Mike, I was racking my brain trying to figure our a place to vent about this billboard nonsense. I am just as frustrated as anyone else is by, well the past 20 years of shenanigans. I just refuse to lambaste Vlade and Vivek over it.

I want improvement, but I trust Vivek to be critical of himself and the organization. I don't think putting up this billboard creates any less dysfunction.
 
#9
A lot to digest here. My initial thought is: good. Vivek should be upset. Some will say this is Vivek meddling again, but it’s not meddling to hold your employees accountable when they fail to perform to expectations. I will say I’d rather not have all this come out midseason, though.
In a vacuum, I agree. But have you read it?

"Sources say Ranadive has shared his frustration with both front office and coaching decisions in a variety of unfiltered ways, including private conversations with business associates and in text messages during a season-long group chat with Divac, coach Luke Walton, assistant general manager Peja Stojakovic and Chief Operating Officer Matina Kolokotronis. The complaints, sources say, have been focused on the team’s underachievement and the part they all played in it."

Have a meeting, air your grievances, set out KPI's/points for improvement and set a dates for follow-up meeting to review progress.
Season-long group chats? How does that not sound like meddling?
 
#10
The billboard is a dumb idea. It is by a vocal minority (I'll say a handful) of those who post comments and their billboard is calling for Vivek to step down and to fire Vlade too.

Their billboard idea won't move the needle. It is just a waste of time, energy and money. No one with any kind of influence is supporting the idea which is why they're no where near what they need for donations but maybe they could pay for one day's worth.

Last month I sat near Vivek during a game and he showed how upset he was after a loss.

Yes, the Kings suck despite the injuries. I would imagine if things continue to go down the toilet then I would expect changes to be made a year from now.
If they want to spend funds to do it, so be it. It’s not going to do anything material beyond agitating the FO.

The Bruin fan base did the same a few years ago, flying a plane around campus, demanding the firing of Steve Alfraud n the resignation of Dan Guerrero. Alfraud lasted two more years n Guerrero is stepping down this year n will be enjoying his $800k pension.

Translation, it won’t matter. What will matter is five years of a failed strategy n even poorer execution.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#11
Fire them all. Starting from fresh nothing is better than trying to build on a foundation that will never hold. Sorry Vlade.
 
#12
The problem with moving Buddy to the bench is that athletes aren't chess pieces, they're people. Maybe if we we're winning 60 games a year and competing for a championship you can convince him to subsume his ego for the good of the team but we're not winning 60 games. I also don't think it's fair to say that his ego is a problem. Part of what makes an athlete excel is feeding their ego. It's why we hated Kobe and admired him at the same time. It's a move that gets us a short term benefit (a few more wins this year) but at the cost of discontent. I don't think that's an equation that benefits the team.

But there's a bigger issue behind all this which is what I've been trying to write about lately. The games are one thing. Obviously it feels better to see the team win games but that goal has to extend beyond one season. The long term planning required to take a last place team and move them into being competitive every night is almost entirely absent. We're signing veterans and then trading them or buying them out 6 months later. We're not hanging onto our own draft picks. Every year there's a new plan. That's just not going to work. My hope has been that somebody in the front office is learning from all this and starting to draw up a 5 year plan of some kind but I don't know. The propoganda machine that ramps up every time we make a move sortof throws sand in the idea that this front office is learning from their mistakes.

I really think if Vivek is going to start getting involved and cutting people loose the first person that needs to be gone is Grant Napear. Some people think he's harmless or maybe they enjoy his contentious attitude but I've felt for a long time now that his attitude is actively hurting the team. When Buddy goes to the bench he immediately explodes with a string of strong performances because now he's got a chip on his shoulder. So here we go with the "Buddy to the bench is the right move, see look at the coaching staff's genius" talk. Don't you think that stuff gets back to the players? Absolutely it does. When somebody gets traded and Grant goes on the air to muddy the waters and explain to all of us why they were hurting the team, they hear all that too. The players may have been traded but those relationships don't cease to exist. If you bad mouth every player that leaves the organization, how does that look to the players who are still here? The front office could hold him accountable but they don't and this just adds to the prevailing negativity infecting the team.

I don't quite know how to articulate this better, but I feel like all of us have been way too obsessed with wins and losses and forgotten that sports organizations excel when they put people first. Treat everyone with respect, work to build a positive environment, stop pointing fingers and looking for skapegoats and instead commit to improving every day. We're not going to suddenly be the Spurs through any trade or draft pick or coaching change. Sustained excellence is a complete team effort.

I'm just one person and I don't even live in Sacramento any more so I don't make it to many games. I've gotten so tired of all the finger pointing that I don't even watch the games on TV anymore. Fans booing their own team for any reason has never sat right with me. These players don't owe us anything. We need to somehow find a way to creep back from the ledge, put the last 15 years behind us, forgive the NBA for getting it wrong with calls in 2002, and find that family atmosphere we abandoned at some point in the early 2000s. This is not life and death stuff, it's just basketball. It's entertainment. Most of these kids came to this team not knowing who we are or what we're about but motivated to put their stamp on history with a team that basically doesn't exist yet in any meaningful way in basketball history. I still remember Vivek and Vlade telling Buddy that they fought to bring him here cause they believe in him. That's how you elevate people. And that's what we need to do more of collectively. Barnes had to sit on the sideline for Dallas knowing he'd been traded. Fox got passed over by 4 other teams in the draft. Giles went from a projected top 5 pick to praying he'd even have an NBA career. I'm rooting for all of these guys. Let's figure this out. We've been a hopeless rabble of losers before and then someone with a plan came in and showed us we could be more. All it takes is a plan. And any time would be a good time to start.
 
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#14
If they want to spend funds to do it, so be it. It’s not going to do anything material beyond agitating the FO.

The Bruin fan base did the same a few years ago, flying a plane around campus, demanding the firing of Steve Alfraud n the resignation of Dan Guerrero. Alfraud lasted two more years n Guerrero is stepping down this year n will be enjoying his $800k pension.

Translation, it won’t matter. What will matter is five years of a failed strategy n even poorer execution.
On the same note the 9er fan base did the same (flew a plane around the stadium
on game day towing different banners) and it caused a huge ruckus.
In the end if fans want to contribute $20 to blow off some steam go for it. No harm no foul.
 
#16
The problem with moving Buddy to the bench is that athletes aren't chess pieces, they're people. Maybe if we we're winning 60 games a year and competing for a championship you can convince him to subsume his ego for the good of the team but we're not winning 60 games. I also don't think it's fair to say that his ego is a problem. Part of what makes an athlete excel is feeding their ego. It's why we hated Kobe and admired him at the same time. It's a move that gets us a short term benefit (a few more wins this year) but at the cost of discontent. I don't think that's an equation that benefits the team.

But there's a bigger issue behind all this which is what I've been trying to write about lately. The games are one thing. Obviously it feels better to see the team win games but that goal has to extend beyond one season. The long term planning required to take a last place team and move them into being competitive every night is almost entirely absent. We're signing veterans and then trading them or buying them out 6 months later. We're not hanging onto our own draft picks. Every year there's a new plan. That's just not going to work. My hope has been that somebody in the front office is learning from all this and starting to draw up a 5 year plan of some kind but I don't know. The propoganda machine that ramps up every time we make a move sortof throws sand in the idea that this front office is learning from their mistakes.

I really think if Vivek is going to start getting involved and cutting people loose the first person that needs to be gone is Grant Napear. Some people think he's harmless or maybe they enjoy his contentious attitude but I've felt for a long time now that his attitude is actively hurting the team. When Buddy goes to the bench he immediately explodes with a string of strong performances because now he's got a chip on his shoulder. So here we go with the "Buddy to the bench is the right move, see look at the coaching staff's genius" talk. Don't you think that stuff gets back to the players? Absolutely it does. When somebody gets traded and Grant goes on the air to muddy the waters and explain to all of us why they were hurting the team, they hear all that too. The players may have been traded but those relationships don't cease to exist. If you bad mouth every player that leaves the organization, how does that look to the players who are still here? The front office could hold him accountable but they don't and this just adds to the prevailing negativity infecting the team.

I don't quite know how to articulate this better, but I feel like all of us have been way too obsessed with wins and losses and forgotten that sports organizations excel when they put people first. Treat everyone with respect, work to build a positive environment, stop pointing fingers and looking for skapegoats and instead commit to improving every day. We're not going to suddenly be the Spurs through any trade or draft pick or coaching change. Sustained excellence is a complete team effort.

I'm just one person and I don't even live in Sacramento any more so I don't make it to many games. I've gotten so tired of all the finger pointing that I don't even watch the games on TV anymore. Fans booing their own team for any reason has never sat right with me. These players don't owe us anything. We need to somehow find a way to creep back from the ledge, put the last 15 years behind us, forgive the NBA for getting it wrong with calls in 2002, and find that family atmosphere we abandoned at some point in the early 2000s. This is not life and death stuff, it's just basketball. It's entertainment. Most of these kids came to this team not knowing who we are or what we're about but motivated to put their stamp on history with a team that basically doesn't exist yet in any meaningful way in basketball history. I still remember Vivek and Vlade telling Buddy that they fought to bring him here cause they believe in him. That's how you elevate people. And that's what we need to do more of collectively. Barnes had to sit on the sideline for Dallas knowing he'd been traded. Fox got passed over by 4 other teams in the draft. Giles went from a projected top 5 pick to praying he'd even have an NBA career. I'm rooting for all of these guys. Let's figure this out. We've been a hopeless rabble of losers before and then someone with a plan came in and showed us we could be more. All it takes is a plan. And any time would be a good time to start.
There's a lot to digest here. I feel like I just read a second article on The Athletic.

For Buddy, from about early December, to when he was moved to a bench role in late January, he wasn't just bad, he was atrocious. I don't think there is another way to look at it. He was shooting near, or under, 40% every game. He wasn't hitting threes. He was committing low IQ turnover, after low IQ turnover while at the same time trying more and more to take on lead guard duties for some reason. I don't know what caused this string of poor play, but what I do know is that the Kings gave him every opportunity to play his way out of it. He was given over a months worth of games to make the necessary improvements, but never did. His move to the bench was very justified by the team. If he sees it as a slight in anyway than that's very unfortunate. The team has catered to Hield as much as any team has ever catered to a player.

Grant Napear is no different than any other mouthpiece that other teams employ. If you play in Sacramento and are playing well, Grant will prop you up beyond what you deserve. If you play in Sacramento and aren't playing well, he'll say you need to be taken out or adjustments need to be made. If you aren't in Sacramento anymore, he'll be indifferent. If you aren't in Sacramento anymore and left the team on poor terms he'll go out of his way to explain why the team is better off. So many other teams commentators do this too. Celtics, Jazz (Harpring mostly), Blazers, Spurs (Elliott), Bulls, Clippers just to name a few. Even if we replaced him I'm sure Vivek would just hire another mouthpiece.

Like the Napear situation, the finger pointing isn't unique to the Kings either, neither is the complaining. The 76ers are in the news right now for booing freaking Joel Embiid. The Lakers, winners of 16 championships, organized protests at Staples Center to complain about the state of the team. The Celtics boo their team at least 10 times a year. There must've been two or three articles last year about Wolves fans booing. Discontent with your team is common, especially when you aren't winning up to expectations and playing with poor effort. Most teams only experience these things a couple of times in a decade. The Kings have experienced it for 14 seasons in a row. We've earned the right to voice our displeasure. That doesn't mean we've abandoned the team. We all want the players to succeed and we want them to succeed here. We want our ownership to do well and for Vlade to redeem himself. But if there is no incremental improvements it's hard to stay positive because the last thing we want is for 14 seasons to turn into 15, and then 16, then 17, and so on.
 
#17
The surprising, new point from the article is the "way Bagley is perceived in some "key" circles". That's the first time, I've heard anything about how he's perceived within the organization--beyond the usual, he's a future star spin.

So, a question. Since he's been here, has any King's PR (be it formal or informal--like Grant, Doug) say Bags is a hard worker? I mean, that label often gets attached to Buddy, but I have never heard the phrase: Marvin Bagley is a hard worker. Have any of you heard that from any Kings related PR?
 
#18
I don't agree as much with 2nd guessing the pick, but I didn't like the coaching firing of Joerger much, and what looks to me like the proverbial 'biting off more than can chew' for the team......
 
#19
I am glad you said this Mike, I was racking my brain trying to figure our a place to vent about this billboard nonsense. I am just as frustrated as anyone else is by, well the past 20 years of shenanigans. I just refuse to lambaste Vlade and Vivek over it.

I want improvement, but I trust Vivek to be critical of himself and the organization. I don't think putting up this billboard creates any less dysfunction.
I am also frustrated with how poorly the team has been, injuries or not, but I just feel the billboard idea is dumb and pointless.

The billboard just makes the fan base look entitled and as I said won't move the needle at all.

There are much better ways to get the point across but it will take a lot more than a billboard supported by only a very tiny percentage of the fan base.
 
#20
If they want to spend funds to do it, so be it. It’s not going to do anything material beyond agitating the FO.

The Bruin fan base did the same a few years ago, flying a plane around campus, demanding the firing of Steve Alfraud n the resignation of Dan Guerrero. Alfraud lasted two more years n Guerrero is stepping down this year n will be enjoying his $800k pension.

Translation, it won’t matter. What will matter is five years of a failed strategy n even poorer execution.
If they really wanted this to happen then the organizer(s) should put more of their own money into it instead of hoping for others to spend their hard earned money even if it is $10 per person.

The billboard won't effect the front office anymore than today's Athletic article along with any past articles.

I thought fans did not want an owner to meddle yet this billboard and the examples you gave are pleading with the owners to meddle. So which is it?

For the Kings the rebuild began with the trading of Cousins so it has been about three years now.

My guess is if things do not improve next season then I could see some changes and it won't be because of a billboard or article.
 
#21
On the same note the 9er fan base did the same (flew a plane around the stadium
on game day towing different banners) and it caused a huge ruckus.
In the end if fans want to contribute $20 to blow off some steam go for it. No harm no foul.
They're more than welcome to do what they wish but reading their comments it showed this was poorly planned and with very little leadership.

The organizer(s) need to put more skin into their plan but that's just me.

The website and video were very poorly done too.

I also have noticed there is not much talk of it on Twitter or Facebook. It is basically silent.
 
#22
If they really wanted this to happen then the organizer(s) should put more of their own money into it instead of hoping for others to spend their hard earned money even if it is $10 per person.

The billboard won't effect the front office anymore than today's Athletic article along with any past articles.

I thought fans did not want an owner to meddle yet this billboard and the examples you gave are pleading with the owners to meddle. So which is it?

For the Kings the rebuild began with the trading of Cousins so it has been about three years now.

My guess is if things do not improve next season then I could see some changes and it won't be because of a billboard or article.
The clock on Vlade is 5 years not 3. He's turned this roster over 3 times with the same failed strategy. I gave him 5 years of faith. Enough is enough.
 
#23
This kind of feels like a light pressure push from Kings ownership letting everyone know from the FO on down to the coaches that how they finish this year is very important. Luke, Vlade, and Peja are all cool as cucumbers. Maybe a little too cool at times. On the floor it can be a great asset, when making management decisions you have to know when to lose some of that cool.
 
#24
The clock on Vlade is 5 years not 3. He's turned this roster over 3 times with the same failed strategy. I gave him 5 years of faith. Enough is enough.
The worst thing Vlade has faced is the coaches he's entrusted his talent with. Know what you have and find a way to find the right person for it. He's building his teams with some sense order so it only makes sense to bring in someone that understands that order and has a history of success to back it up. There are plenty of style coaches out there and wanting to be good at everything isn't a realistic style.
 
#26
The clock on Vlade is 5 years not 3. He's turned this roster over 3 times with the same failed strategy. I gave him 5 years of faith. Enough is enough.
The first time was to build around Cousins and that did not work.

Trading Cousins was ripping off the band-aid for a full rebuild and up until last season things were starting to look good except for the tailspin toward the end of the season.

Injuries this season, especially to Fox, has hurt this team and some pieces simply did not fit which was why they were traded.

This coming off season Vlade and company must get it right with the players being mostly healthy.

Otherwise I could see some major changes made a year from now.
 
#27
The first time was to build around Cousins and that did not work.

Trading Cousins was ripping off the band-aid for a full rebuild and up until last season things were starting to look good except for the tailspin toward the end of the season.

Injuries this season, especially to Fox, has hurt this team and some pieces simply did not fit which was why they were traded.

This coming off season Vlade and company must get it right with the players being mostly healthy.

Otherwise I could see some major changes made a year from now.
The first two years don’t just magically disappear. With or without Boogie, he’s implemented the same failed strategy. Sign vets, mix them with youth, hope for lightening to strike like it did in the early 2000s. Did you forget the premise behind that Philly trade? He did it to create cap space in order surround Boogie with vets. He repeated it with the Hill, ZBO signings. And he just did it again with the Ariza, Dedmond class. Dude’s been doing the same thing since day one.

It simply hasn’t worked. It’s time for a change.
 
#29
If they really wanted this to happen then the organizer(s) should put more of their own money into it instead of hoping for others to spend their hard earned money even if it is $10 per person.

The billboard won't effect the front office anymore than today's Athletic article along with any past articles.

I thought fans did not want an owner to meddle yet this billboard and the examples you gave are pleading with the owners to meddle. So which is it?

For the Kings the rebuild began with the trading of Cousins so it has been about three years now.

My guess is if things do not improve next season then I could see some changes and it won't be because of a billboard or article.
Most social funding strategies apply a we’ll make up the difference strategy. Set a goal, let others contribute, if the funding is short of the target, come in with your own money to make up the difference. If you want to call them out for not comtributing enough, wait. If they don’t jump in, u have a valid point. But my bet, they’ll cover the delta.
 
#30
The surprising, new point from the article is the "way Bagley is perceived in some "key" circles". That's the first time, I've heard anything about how he's perceived within the organization--beyond the usual, he's a future star spin.

So, a question. Since he's been here, has any King's PR (be it formal or informal--like Grant, Doug) say Bags is a hard worker? I mean, that label often gets attached to Buddy, but I have never heard the phrase: Marvin Bagley is a hard worker. Have any of you heard that from any Kings related PR?
Nope. I haven’t heard that description of Bagley, but it doesn’t mean that it isn’t true. Marvin has been hurt so much this season that he’s probably been following an independent regimen of rehab and/or rest, which may not provide a true representation of work ethic in terms of personal development. Bottom line: There is no way for fans to know what MB III’s motivation level is, but I think he should be afforded the benefit of the doubt unless/until we credibly learn otherwise.