Jason Jones on Vlade Divac (excerpt from The Athletic)

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#31
Does anybody know how long Pistons fans complained about Dumars drafting Darko? Because in the event Bagley doesn't pan out, I just want to know exactly long I'm going to have to put up with this.
It’s gonna be a long while, my friend. These mistakes just don’t get forgotten/brushed aside. This isn’t a Tyreke/Curry hindsight situation, this was immediatly the wrong pick and so many people knew it and were 100% right.
 
#32
Does anybody know how long Pistons fans complained about Dumars drafting Darko? Because in the event Bagley doesn't pan out, I just want to know exactly long I'm going to have to put up with this.
I feel like it got brought up until the end of his run, which included a championship and 6 straight conference finals.

So after adjusting for Vlade's comparative success, and likelihood of being GM for even 6 more seasons... my calculation says for inifinity.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#33
I mean I'm pretty sure we could find someone out there still pissed off at Joe Axelson for picking Kenny Smith instead of KJ in 1987 if we looked hard enough.
Sure, but as you said we have to look hard enough. At this point that guy's not coming to us and reiterating his take as if we somehow missed it the first umpteenzillion times.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#34
Vlade Divac is incompetent as a GM.
I think he has made some mistakes, but I don't think he's incompetent. Unfortunately, when your learning on the job, mistakes are going to be made. Sam Vecenie, another writer for The Athletic, and one I have great respect for because he does his homework, recently ranked all thirty teams based on the young talent of each team. The criteria being that the players are on their rookie contracts. That includes 2nd rd picks or even undrafted players that are on two way contracts.

So out of all thirty NBA teams, he had the Kings ranked 6th best, barely being edged out by Dallas at number 5. When you look at Dallas, the deciding factor was Doncic, because there's a big drop off in talent after you get past him. My point is that if he's anywhere near accurate in his assessment, the Kings future looks bright, and if so, then Vlade hasn't been totally incompetent at his job. That doesn't excuse his mistakes though, and that's something that Vivek has to weigh.

Personally, I'm all for giving Vlade and Walton one more year to establish that yes, were on the right track, or no, it's time for another change. If the Kings take a big step in the right direction next season then I'm willing to forgive those early mistakes. I like Vlade and I hope his vision proves to be the right one. Not only would that be a plus for him, but for us as well.
 

Warhawk

The cake is a lie.
Staff member
#36
It’s gonna be a long while, my friend. These mistakes just don’t get forgotten/brushed aside. This isn’t a Tyreke/Curry hindsight situation, this was immediatly the wrong pick and so many people knew it and were 100% right.
In all honesty, there is a huge difference between brushing something aside and hammering on it incessantly whenever Vlade's name comes up.

And this is coming from someone who wanted Luka.
 
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bajaden

Hall of Famer
#37
I mean I'm pretty sure we could find someone out there still pissed off at Joe Axelson for picking Kenny Smith instead of KJ in 1987 if we looked hard enough.
Believe me, Smith rather than Johnson, is just the tip of the iceberg with Axelson. This is the same GM that traded away the great Oscar Robinson and Jerry Lucas in their prime to save money. This is the GM that traded Mike Woodson, Larry Drew, a 1988 1st rd draft pick and a 1989 2nd rd pick to acquire Derek Smith, who came with two Bad knee's. He traded away a young Otis Thorpe for Jim Peterson and Rodney McCray, only to turn around and trade a young Jim Peterson for a broken down Ralph Sampson, who could hardly get up and down the floor. He took a team that came from Kansas City and had just made the playoffs, and destroyed it.

If you were to look up the word incompetent in the dictionary, it should have his picture under it.
 
#40
Dumars could have had Wade, or Carmelo, or Bosh. We've got a looooooooooooong way to go before Wade/Carmelo/Bosh are "not even close" to Luka.
From what I remember Darko had a lot of hype and taking him at 2 wasn’t an oh crap moment. Taking Bagley over Trae/Luka/JJR was moronic than and is today. Darko game wasn’t outdate Bagley game simply is for an impact player, Detroit didn’t have a do it all 6’9 guy sitting there waiting to be drafted. Wade/Melo/Bosh didn’t accomplish as much as Luka prior to being drafted.

And yes we don’t have a long way to go to put Luka ahead of the underachiever melo or Bosh, DWhistle is next.
 
#41
Believe me, Smith rather than Johnson, is just the tip of the iceberg with Axelson. This is the same GM that traded away the great Oscar Robinson and Jerry Lucas in their prime to save money. This is the GM that traded Mike Woodson, Larry Drew, a 1988 1st rd draft pick and a 1989 2nd rd pick to acquire Derek Smith, who came with two Bad knee's. He traded away a young Otis Thorpe for Jim Peterson and Rodney McCray, only to turn around and trade a young Jim Peterson for a broken down Ralph Sampson, who could hardly get up and down the floor. He took a team that came from Kansas City and had just made the playoffs, and destroyed it.

If you were to look up the word incompetent in the dictionary, it should have his picture under it.
Let’s not forget that arguably the best, most important trade in Sacramento Kings history occurred not that terribly long AFTER Axelson’s time as GM was over. I don’t believe that to be a coincidence.

FWIW, I contend the Owens for Richmond trade made by Jerry Reynolds was the best trade in SAC franchise history. Not only because Mitch is a hall of famer, but because it led to the next best trade which was Petrie trading Richmond for Chris Webber.
 
#42
Taking Bagley over Trae/Luka/JJR was moronic than and is today.
#77, yes. But the other two? Nope.

#77 was the consensus player at that spot — by a wide margin. A very small faction of KINGS complained about bypassing Young or Jackson. But that kind of thing happens every draft.

Furthermore, bypassing Young — who might be one of the worst defensive players in the league right now — doesn’t look all that bad considering he only could have played De’Aaron’s position and Fox is the better player.

Young hasn’t moved the needle in ATL in terms of team success. They’re as bad as they were beforehand. Meanwhile the KINGS, despite the injuries, have been markedly improved and a borderline playoff team in the deeper conference.

And Jackson hasn’t proven to be anything better than Bagley yet. If MB3 gets over his early injury plagued career, similar to how Steph Curry overcame his, including those two names might look extremely silly in a few years.
 
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#43
From what I remember Darko had a lot of hype and taking him at 2 wasn’t an oh crap moment. Taking Bagley over Trae/Luka/JJR was moronic than and is today. Darko game wasn’t outdate Bagley game simply is for an impact player, Detroit didn’t have a do it all 6’9 guy sitting there waiting to be drafted. Wade/Melo/Bosh didn’t accomplish as much as Luka prior to being drafted.

And yes we don’t have a long way to go to put Luka ahead of the underachiever melo or Bosh, DWhistle is next.
Wade and Bosh made quite an imprint on the NBA landscape. Melo has lots of Stats. Luka looks golden so far. IMO Nelson and Carlisle know how to craft the Mavs around him so his talents are intensified. Time will tell if Luka gets close to D Wade. Remember Wade won O Brien trophies in two eras of Heat squads.
 
#44
Does anybody know how long Pistons fans complained about Dumars drafting Darko? Because in the event Bagley doesn't pan out, I just want to know exactly long I'm going to have to put up with this.
Indefinitely.

That pick is part of the unholy trifecta of draft misses, along with Oden over Durant and Bowie over MJ. It's etched into the public consciousness of NBA fans and Bagley over Doncic is the same way.

Now, this place likes to smugly pretend that everyone except a few has moved on and that the wider NBA sphere has done the same (which it has NOT, Kings Reddit, Twitter, and the STR replacement are SUPER not over it; this place is the ONLY one I know of that insulates itself from that stuff and pretends it's the standard, and the fanbases/media outside Sacramento bring it up for ridicule first chance they get).

So hey, maybe you'll be able to drown it out as we all suffer through some more miserable seasons together watching Bagley post-up isos and his father fighting with players and management on social media.
 
#45
Indefinitely.

That pick is part of the unholy trifecta of draft misses, along with Oden over Durant and Bowie over MJ. It's etched into the public consciousness of NBA fans and Bagley over Doncic is the same way.
.
With great sadness, I agree.

#77 may never reach Jordan status, but if he keeps doing what he’s already been doing for nearly 2 full seasons in, the talk and backlash will only continue to grow.

Bowie over Jordan happened 36 years ago and it’s brought up now more than ever.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#46
Thanks for the honesty on that.

Now, this place likes to smugly pretend that everyone except a few has moved on
This, of course, is not true. I, and the seemingly few (or quiet majority?) like me, have made absolutely no pretense about people having moved on, smugly or otherwise. It is blatantly obvious that people have not moved on, as evidenced by the fact that as soon as the sweet, sweet oblivion of the Covid Doldrums evaporated away with the release of the NBA's season-completing schedule and people began talking basketball again, practically the very first complaint brought up here was precisely the "Vlade didn't take Doncic" complaint. We are now about a page and a half into a thread which featured an excerpt of an article talking about Vlade, the current Kings, and prospects for the Kings' future. That concept - the forward-looking idea taking into account where the Kings are right now and what their future might be - has been hardly discussed if at all, in favor of once again rehashing the exact same backwards-looking, stuck-in-the-past complaints that have been endemic here (as well as apparently elsewhere) for the past two years.

Smugly pretending that everyone has moved on, my ass! Pointing out that your crowd of incessantly nattering nabobs of negativity is at it again is pretty much the opposite of smugly pretending everybody has moved on.

and that the wider NBA sphere has done the same (which it has NOT, Kings Reddit, Twitter, and the STR replacement are SUPER not over it; this place is the ONLY one I know of that insulates itself from that stuff and pretends it's the standard, and the fanbases/media outside Sacramento bring it up for ridicule first chance they get).
Which brings the question - if Reddit and Twitter and STR and the social media sites for every other NBA fanbase all provide welcoming outlets for your point of view, why can't you spend your time complaining about Vlade not taking Doncic at one of those sites (there's clearly no shortage of sympathetic ears!) and spend your time here, seemingly the one single and solitary site on the internet where the mods openly discourage such negativity, in other discussions that are more germane to this site's (for lack of a better word) editorial position? If KingsFans.com wishes to position itself as a site dedicated to forward-looking hope rather than backward-looking complaints, why do you and your crew insist on rejecting those wishes and forcibly reforming us in the image of all of those other sites when you already have so many options to get your Doncic stuff off your chests elsewhere?

So hey, maybe you'll be able to drown it out
We can't drown it out. You've already proven that. And it certainly doesn't appear that you will tire of it anytime soon. The only amicable hope we really have is for your crew to come to the realization: "You know what? The mods over at KingsFans.com have been telling us that we have made our point to saturation and have been asking us to knock it off because we're derailing the other conversations and maybe...maybe we're being rude to keep throwing it in their faces when we have so many other outlets where we can get our frustrations out without falling afoul of the wishes of the community..."

Or, in meme-speak, you could have one of these moments:



But I'm not holding my breath.

as we all suffer through some more miserable seasons together
See, this site shouldn't have to be about suffering and misery. Some of us are trying to keep this site from becoming solely that.

And, just to head off the "but but realism" argument...

"The Kings are a small market team with an incompetent front office and ownership with little chance to ever truly compete for a championship. I'm only interested in championships so I'm going to stop emotionally investing in the team" is realism.

"The Kings are a small market team with an incompetent front office and ownership with little chance to ever truly compete for a championship, but I want to root for my hometown team and I'm going to stick beside them even though success is unlikely" is realism.

"The Kings are a small market team with an incompetent front office and ownership with little chance to ever truly compete for a championship. I'm only interested in championships and since it's obvious I'm not going to be getting them here anytime soon, I'm going to double down on my emotional investment in the team so I can turn it around in raging vents of misery and frustration" isn't realism, it's masochism.
 
#47
Wade and Bosh made quite an imprint on the NBA landscape. Melo has lots of Stats. Luka looks golden so far. IMO Nelson and Carlisle know how to craft the Mavs around him so his talents are intensified. Time will tell if Luka gets close to D Wade. Remember Wade won O Brien trophies in two eras of Heat squads.
Melo/Bosh have proven you can’t truly contend with them as option 1, Luka it seems so far to be the opposite. Wade to me is overrated the first ring I’ll give him even although a lot had to do with the way he was officiated that year.
#77, yes. But the other two? Nope.

#77 was the consensus player at that spot — by a wide margin. A very small faction of KINGS complained about bypassing Young or Jackson. But that kind of thing happens every draft.

Furthermore, bypassing Young — who might be one of the worst defensive players in the league right now — doesn’t look all that bad considering he only could have played De’Aaron’s position and Fox is the better player.

Young hasn’t moved the needle in ATL in terms of team success. They’re as bad as they were beforehand. Meanwhile the KINGS, despite the injuries, have been markedly improved and a borderline playoff team in the deeper conference.

And Jackson hasn’t proven to be anything better than Bagley yet. If MB3 gets over his early injury plagued career, similar to how Steph Curry overcame his, including those two names might look extremely silly in a few years.
why won’t you say his name

Absurd to put Curry and Bagley in the same breath. It was clear and apparent early on that Steph was special he was just hurt, Bagley is hurt and when he did play had no signs of being a star. There’s literally no executive that would take Bagley over Trae or Jackson that’s absurd Vlade wouldn’t even take Bagley over them. You is a very good player and will be a star he has definitely moved the needle there, he’s averaging 29/4/9 with absolute garbage surrounding him. Young runs that’s offense what can Bagley possibly do to compare to that he can’t create for teammates and barely does for himself. The only saving grace is hell be a better defender than Young but when you is doing all that offense he’d still be better than bagley unless Bagley turns into AD defensively. And us being better after we drafted Bagley compared to Young and Atlanta has zero to do with Bagley.

 
#48
why won’t you say his name
I think you or someone else asked me that a while back.

Because it causes too much pain! And his name is dropped enough around here to more than cover for me ;)

Remember, I was firmly on the #77 train all the way up through the draft. I got super angry during and after the draft like most others. Then decided to give it some time before passing judgement. Admittedly, that timetable was drastically shortened by #77's ungodly play and MB3's already chronic injury history.

Absurd to put Curry and Bagley in the same breath.
Only if you are comparing them as players, which I was not. I only compared their penchant for injury.

A lot of folks forget that Steph was deemed injury prone earlier in his career, as well as behind some peers in his class. By year 4, that all seemed silly.

If MB3 can put injuries behind him and consistently play like we've seen him do in stretches, all this talk of others in his class not named #77 could also seem silly. That's my point.

Young is a very good player and will be a star he has definitely moved the needle there
The Hawks won 24 games the season before he got there. They won 29 his rookie season and were 4th worst in the East. This season they were on pace for 24 wins and were 2nd worst in the East.

I don't see a strong argument for "moving the needle".

Also don't care what his stat averages are. Because his lack of defense counter acts a lot of the good he does on offense. And I also don't care because those stats aren't translating to team success thus far. Playing in the weaker East, no less.

I've been watching basketball for a long time now. I've seen many players average impressive points, rebounds and assists and it not mean anything team wise. So far that is holding true for Young. But it's still early and things can change.

Young runs that’s offense what can Bagley possibly do to compare to that
His position doesn't dictate that he run an offense. He's not a point guard or a primary ball handler. That's De'Aaron Fox's job. And he plays the PG position better, all around, than Trey Young does. So I think the KINGS are good on that front.

Anthony Davis doesn't run an offense and isn't a primary ball handler. Yet I'm pretty confident you wouldn't want Young over him. If MB3 can develop into a poor man's Davis offensively, that's still pretty good isn't it?

I know, I know, I mentioned AD and MB3 in the same sentence. But I only do so because they are both long, lanky athletic big men that aren't expected to run an offense. But can finish on the break and score in the post. Bagley has even show the ability to shoot for range and can handle the ball well for someone his size. So perhaps he can develop into a poor man's AD offensively?

You have to admit, when he has been able to play, he's flashed some serious game.
 
#49
Melo/Bosh have proven you can’t truly contend with them as option 1, Luka it seems so far to be the opposite. Wade to me is overrated the first ring I’ll give him even although a lot had to do with the way he was officiated that year.


why won’t you say his name

Absurd to put Curry and Bagley in the same breath. It was clear and apparent early on that Steph was special he was just hurt, Bagley is hurt and when he did play had no signs of being a star. There’s literally no executive that would take Bagley over Trae or Jackson that’s absurd Vlade wouldn’t even take Bagley over them. You is a very good player and will be a star he has definitely moved the needle there, he’s averaging 29/4/9 with absolute garbage surrounding him. Young runs that’s offense what can Bagley possibly do to compare to that he can’t create for teammates and barely does for himself. The only saving grace is hell be a better defender than Young but when you is doing all that offense he’d still be better than bagley unless Bagley turns into AD defensively. And us being better after we drafted Bagley compared to Young and Atlanta has zero to do with Bagley.

This video is really well done and I give all these players a ton of credit for understanding the offense and getting themselves in position to make those passes but the overwhelming impression I got from this video isn't that Trae Young, James Harden, Chris Paul, et al are re-defining basketball with their pinpoint accuracy and ball handling skills it's 'oh my god, the entire NBA needs a re-think on the whole concept of defense!' We're a full decade plus in to the statistical analysis era of basketball at this point and there's not a single coach, player, or sideline reporter who doesn't already know that threes beat twos every time down the floor. So why is every team in this video still sagging off of shooters, collapsing in the paint and leaving shooters open in the corner -- the corner!! As in the most efficient scoring location on the entire floor! What is going on?

It's almost comical. Aren't coaches going over this game tape? At some point when you see the closest defender needing to take 4, 5, or even 6 full steps to get to an open shooter who hasn't moved for the entire play you have to realize that there's a problem with your scheme don't you? It's like coaches are stuck in 2008 when Tom Thibodeau's Celtics defense was throttling the league. Offensive play callers have adjusted, lineups feature elite shooters at every position now, and Lebron's patented knife into the lane and kick it out play -- which garnered criticism back in 2007 when he lost a playoff game to the Pistons passing up what looked like an easy layup with his team down 2 points in the closing seconds to get Donyell Marshall a corner 3 -- has now become canonized as the better play. In 2007/2008 we were still in the middle of the Kobe era which followed directly on the heels of the Jordan era. That was a league dominated by star wing players who were expected to isolate and score one on one against man to man defenses. We now have a league dominated by playmakers and kick outs. The defenses have to adjust. Let that star player take the layups. You can beat a team where one guy scores 45 but you clamp down on the passing lanes and deny open shots for their teammates. Defenses should be funneling the ball into the paint now, not out of it.

...also, Chris Paul's curving backspin passes are insane! If I were 13 years old again and had all the time in the world I'd be at the court all day right now perfecting that.
 
#50
Thanks for the honesty on that.



This, of course, is not true. I, and the seemingly few (or quiet majority?) like me, have made absolutely no pretense about people having moved on, smugly or otherwise. It is blatantly obvious that people have not moved on, as evidenced by the fact that as soon as the sweet, sweet oblivion of the Covid Doldrums evaporated away with the release of the NBA's season-completing schedule and people began talking basketball again, practically the very first complaint brought up here was precisely the "Vlade didn't take Doncic" complaint. We are now about a page and a half into a thread which featured an excerpt of an article talking about Vlade, the current Kings, and prospects for the Kings' future. That concept - the forward-looking idea taking into account where the Kings are right now and what their future might be - has been hardly discussed if at all, in favor of once again rehashing the exact same backwards-looking, stuck-in-the-past complaints that have been endemic here (as well as apparently elsewhere) for the past two years.

Smugly pretending that everyone has moved on, my ass! Pointing out that your crowd of incessantly nattering nabobs of negativity is at it again is pretty much the opposite of smugly pretending everybody has moved on.
Maybe to you and me it's blatantly obvious (which it is), but tell me about all the times one of these threads happens, the inevitable occurs, arguments happen and then you get some condescending comment about the same, few core posters coming in here like clockwork.

Backwords-looking? You do realize that prospects for the future are directly tied to what they've done in the past, right? Where are they now? They suck and so does their future, because of their screwups in the past. This isn't hard. They had their shot and they most likely blew it. What can they do about it? More extended rebuilding, and doing it right this time. As for the article about Vlade himself, well I'll get to that.



Which brings the question - if Reddit and Twitter and STR and the social media sites for every other NBA fanbase all provide welcoming outlets for your point of view, why can't you spend your time complaining about Vlade not taking Doncic at one of those sites (there's clearly no shortage of sympathetic ears!) and spend your time here, seemingly the one single and solitary site on the internet where the mods openly discourage such negativity, in other discussions that are more germane to this site's (for lack of a better word) editorial position? If KingsFans.com wishes to position itself as a site dedicated to forward-looking hope rather than backward-looking complaints, why do you and your crew insist on rejecting those wishes and forcibly reforming us in the image of all of those other sites when you already have so many options to get your Doncic stuff off your chests elsewhere?
Who says I don't? Granted, it's just Reddit. I don't use Twitter and STR is too cliquey for me, so I just lurk there. But on Reddit the stuff I say about Bagley would wound your pride as someone who's so invested in Bagley. I don't even use all the nicknames he has here!

Maybe I'm here because I like the quips from people like SLAB and Tetsujin, or the analysis from someone like ESP, etc. You have bizarre ideas on how to run a forum. You know what those other sites have in common? The feel in all those places were all made by the posters and the discussions they had. They weren't artifically manufactured by barriers and red tape. If the mods do get involved, it's to argue their position via the comments. I have basketball opinions that are unpopular; according to you if I get enough backlash on it I should close off discussion of it, make their posts sound condescending through titles, and make it so they can never argue back.

We can't drown it out. You've already proven that. And it certainly doesn't appear that you will tire of it anytime soon. The only amicable hope we really have is for your crew to come to the realization: "You know what? The mods over at KingsFans.com have been telling us that we have made our point to saturation and have been asking us to knock it off because we're derailing the other conversations and maybe...maybe we're being rude to keep throwing it in their faces when we have so many other outlets where we can get our frustrations out without falling afoul of the wishes of the community..."

Or, in meme-speak, you could have one of these moments:



But I'm not holding my breath.
Take a look at who started this particular thread. VF showed off this article about Vlade to argue a position she had (that I disagree with) and maybe drum up support and offer a fresh perspective. Which is fine. But it's blatantly obvious.

All things Vlade are related to the moves he's made during his tenure. Even if it wasn't, this article is expressly about his GM tenure and how we got here. Talking about Vlade's GM moves in a thread about an article on Vlade's GM moves is somehow irrelevant and derailing. Got it. Betcha if we all come out in unwavering support of Vlade nothing would be derailing at all. You don't get to so clearly argue a position and then filter things out so no one who disagrees can respond. That's not how this works. You've all done such a super job of NOT creating these types of threads and NOT staying out of the Luka Doncic thread. If you don't want to see these types of discussions, act like it.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#52
tell me about all the times one of these threads happens, the inevitable occurs, arguments happen and then you get some condescending comment about the same, few core posters coming in here like clockwork.
It's not inevitable. You have the ability to refrain from once again directing the discussion in that direction, but you do not.

Maybe I'm here because I like the quips from people like SLAB and Tetsujin, or the analysis from someone like ESP, etc.
I never asked you why you were here. I asked you why you couldn't respect our requests to not turn every discussion to the same topic WHILE you are here when by your admission you have so many other outlets where that discussion is more welcome.

You have bizarre ideas on how to run a forum.
And you have conventional ideas on how to derail one.

All things Vlade are related to the moves he's made during his tenure. Even if it wasn't, this article is expressly about his GM tenure and how we got here. Talking about Vlade's GM moves in a thread about an article on Vlade's GM moves is somehow irrelevant and derailing. Got it.
The article - at least the excerpt quoted from an article behind a paywall - is about Vlade's plan for the future, not Vlade's past moves. You should be able to see that, but you've only got one lens.

You don't get to so clearly argue a position and then filter things out so no one who disagrees can respond. That's not how this works.
There is literally nobody going around starting up "Bagley >>> Doncic" arguments and then preventing you from arguing the other side. The problem is that you bring every discussion back to your pet complaint, and we've asked you to stop, but you seem to feel entitled to continue doing it.

If you don't want to see these types of discussions, act like it.
Good idea.
 
#53
Ham's still toeing the company line though, by downplaying all of Vlade's bad moves and pretending he was dealt a raw hand when he came in. Yet when he came in, he had a 24 year old first-time all star, veterans on friendly contracts (Rudy Gay had rebuilt his value and was coming off his best professional season) and a relatively clean cap. He had all the tools ready to rebuild, waited too long before deciding he was gonna do it, flubbed the trade with his superstar, got bailed out by lottery luck two years in a row and then proceeded to blow one of said picks.

But he had a raw hand... sure. This team is a contender by now if we had even a below-average GM making conventional wisdom trades and draft picks. Easily.

Vlade's speciality is getting blessed with good fortune by the basketball gods and then squandering it, with a side of getting hungup over stupid BS. Time and time again.
Getting value for Cousins was never going to be easy. I will just let the following videos tell the story:


(video removed by mod due to prominent display of vulgar language)


 
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#55
Thanks for the honesty on that.



This, of course, is not true. I, and the seemingly few (or quiet majority?) like me, have made absolutely no pretense about people having moved on, smugly or otherwise. It is blatantly obvious that people have not moved on, as evidenced by the fact that as soon as the sweet, sweet oblivion of the Covid Doldrums evaporated away with the release of the NBA's season-completing schedule and people began talking basketball again, practically the very first complaint brought up here was precisely the "Vlade didn't take Doncic" complaint. We are now about a page and a half into a thread which featured an excerpt of an article talking about Vlade, the current Kings, and prospects for the Kings' future. That concept - the forward-looking idea taking into account where the Kings are right now and what their future might be - has been hardly discussed if at all, in favor of once again rehashing the exact same backwards-looking, stuck-in-the-past complaints that have been endemic here (as well as apparently elsewhere) for the past two years.

Smugly pretending that everyone has moved on, my ass! Pointing out that your crowd of incessantly nattering nabobs of negativity is at it again is pretty much the opposite of smugly pretending everybody has moved on.



Which brings the question - if Reddit and Twitter and STR and the social media sites for every other NBA fanbase all provide welcoming outlets for your point of view, why can't you spend your time complaining about Vlade not taking Doncic at one of those sites (there's clearly no shortage of sympathetic ears!) and spend your time here, seemingly the one single and solitary site on the internet where the mods openly discourage such negativity, in other discussions that are more germane to this site's (for lack of a better word) editorial position? If KingsFans.com wishes to position itself as a site dedicated to forward-looking hope rather than backward-looking complaints, why do you and your crew insist on rejecting those wishes and forcibly reforming us in the image of all of those other sites when you already have so many options to get your Doncic stuff off your chests elsewhere?



We can't drown it out. You've already proven that. And it certainly doesn't appear that you will tire of it anytime soon. The only amicable hope we really have is for your crew to come to the realization: "You know what? The mods over at KingsFans.com have been telling us that we have made our point to saturation and have been asking us to knock it off because we're derailing the other conversations and maybe...maybe we're being rude to keep throwing it in their faces when we have so many other outlets where we can get our frustrations out without falling afoul of the wishes of the community..."

Or, in meme-speak, you could have one of these moments:



But I'm not holding my breath.



See, this site shouldn't have to be about suffering and misery. Some of us are trying to keep this site from becoming solely that.

And, just to head off the "but but realism" argument...

"The Kings are a small market team with an incompetent front office and ownership with little chance to ever truly compete for a championship. I'm only interested in championships so I'm going to stop emotionally investing in the team" is realism.

"The Kings are a small market team with an incompetent front office and ownership with little chance to ever truly compete for a championship, but I want to root for my hometown team and I'm going to stick beside them even though success is unlikely" is realism.

"The Kings are a small market team with an incompetent front office and ownership with little chance to ever truly compete for a championship. I'm only interested in championships and since it's obvious I'm not going to be getting them here anytime soon, I'm going to double down on my emotional investment in the team so I can turn it around in raging vents of misery and frustration" isn't realism, it's masochism.
In terms of the first two thirds, parable much? Liked it.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#57
Indefinitely.

That pick is part of the unholy trifecta of draft misses, along with Oden over Durant and Bowie over MJ. It's etched into the public consciousness of NBA fans and Bagley over Doncic is the same way.

Now, this place likes to smugly pretend that everyone except a few has moved on and that the wider NBA sphere has done the same (which it has NOT, Kings Reddit, Twitter, and the STR replacement are SUPER not over it; this place is the ONLY one I know of that insulates itself from that stuff and pretends it's the standard, and the fanbases/media outside Sacramento bring it up for ridicule first chance they get).

So hey, maybe you'll be able to drown it out as we all suffer through some more miserable seasons together watching Bagley post-up isos and his father fighting with players and management on social media.
Lets see if we can find a new way to discuss something that been discussed, turned inside out and discussed again, and again, and again. Frankly, most intelligent people get tired of rehashing the same thing over and over again. It's like watching a movie with an ending you don't like, and then re-watching again, and again hoping you'll get an ending you like..

I'm more interested in the Kings future than I'am discussing something that I can't do anything about. You know why? Because it won't change anything. Last year my favorite dog died. He was my best buddy, and it tore my heart out. It pains me to think of him now, and so I avoid bringing up that memory. That doesn't mean I've forgotten him. I don't have to be hit over the head with it on a daily basis as a reminder!

Maybe some of you haven't noticed, but I'm not posting on this particular forum very often. I stick mostly to the prospects forum. You know why? To keep my sanity. I simply don't want to read all the negativity, most of which is based on subjective opinion, with the emphasis on the word opinion. So I think I'll crawl back to the prospects forum where I'm willing to discuss anything anyone wants to discuss about future prospects.
 
#58
Cyclical arguments about Luka Doncic AND random shots at Boogie's character? I guess things really are going back to normal!
Tetsujin, Not sure if you are referring to the Youtube videos I posted as 'random shots at Boogie's character."

I was responding to Effort Police. The videos are just exhibit A in why Cousins trade value was diminished. IMO Vlade made the best trade he could make and I suspect Ownership had a hand in it.
 
#59
Lets see if we can find a new way to discuss something that been discussed, turned inside out and discussed again, and again, and again. Frankly, most intelligent people get tired of rehashing the same thing over and over again. It's like watching a movie with an ending you don't like, and then re-watching again, and again hoping you'll get an ending you like..

I'm more interested in the Kings future than I'am discussing something that I can't do anything about. You know why? Because it won't change anything. Last year my favorite dog died. He was my best buddy, and it tore my heart out. It pains me to think of him now, and so I avoid bringing up that memory. That doesn't mean I've forgotten him. I don't have to be hit over the head with it on a daily basis as a reminder!

Maybe some of you haven't noticed, but I'm not posting on this particular forum very often. I stick mostly to the prospects forum. You know why? To keep my sanity. I simply don't want to read all the negativity, most of which is based on subjective opinion, with the emphasis on the word opinion. So I think I'll crawl back to the prospects forum where I'm willing to discuss anything anyone wants to discuss about future prospects.
When it comes right down to it IMO Basketball is entertainment. Many of us watch the game as an escape from the daily grind of "Real Life." Recently events have crossed over heavily into the game. So I get you and others sticking to positive topics. I always enjoy reading your thoughtful posts. Thanks for what you add to this forum.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#60
Tetsujin, Not sure if you are referring to the Youtube videos I posted as 'random shots at Boogie's character."

I was responding to Effort Police. The videos are just exhibit A in why Cousins trade value was diminished. IMO Vlade made the best trade he could make and I suspect Ownership had a hand in it.
Except for the fact “I had a better offer on the table yesterday” or whatever it was he said. :p