J
jdbraver
Guest
He may be the best available at #4. There will be other quality PGs later in the draft. If thabeet is gone at 3 we should grab this guy.
J
jdbraver
Guest
Harden is closer to contributing now. Jennings may take year to score over 6 pts a game and get 5 asst per game. I can see HArden averaging 10 pts per game.
Nighthawk1
Starter
Why do we need him with KMart and cisco around? He's not a tough defender, nor is he an explosive scorer... Even with if for some random reason Kmart isn't with us I don't think we need harden... I'd rather have derozan
Arby's Roast Beef
Starter
He's probably the most NBA-ready of the rest of the other picks--put up huge college numbers, and I think he has the craftiness and intelligence to maintain that in the league. I know some will criticize his unorthodox game, his average athleticism and average size which probably won't give him great star quality, but if you need a certified scorer, he's your guy. For our team, I just don't think we need the scoring because he's somewhat reminiscent to KMart--scores efficiently and gets to the free throw line at will--but some will argue that he may be a good sidekick to him as another perimeter player defenses must respect. But I'd prefer a athletic defense pass-first PG or tall athletic shotblocker instead, and Harden almost seems like skillset duplication. But he may grow on me..we'll see.
DoDiGaG0
Bench
great assessment, If you take the best player available -- I think you go with Harden.
as you mentioned -- he thought he isn't the most athletic player in the world, hes really crazy and finds ways to score, I see him turning into a Manu Ginobli type player(slightly less skilled).
He just isn't what the team needs now because he would be a horrible combo with KMart(imagine Kmart trying to play the 3 and guard the likes of Artest and Nocioni, just examples of players kings have played recently at the 3)
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I'm not sure if the original poster is refering to Harden as a pt guard or not. Because he's not a pt guard. He's definitely a shooting guard that has pt guard skills. He has great court vision and very good passing ability. He has a decent handle but not a great handle and tends to be left handed most of the time.
I will qualify this by saying that in college, he was a very good defender. He has good lateral movement and good anticipation instincts. How well that will translate to the NBA, is anyones guess. But I would not be surprised if he were a better defender than Martin from day one. No one I know of has ever criticized his defense. Most of his criticism has been about his athleticism. Hard to believe, but you can be a good defender and not be a great athlete. You can also be a great athlete and not be a good defender.
DeRozen is a much better athlete. But skill wise, he's a couple of years behind Harden. Maybe more...
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beb0p
Starter
I rank Harden the second best player behind Griffin. It may take him some time to adjust to the league, but the wait will be well worth it.
As for his game, it's nothing like Kmart's. KMart is a pure scorer. Harden is the all-around player who can get you a triple double. He makes his teammates better, that's the key. If we're playing D'Antoni's small ball then Kmart and Harden would be a perfect one-two punch, but we're not and I'm not saying we should. So fitting in Harden and Kmart will be a challenge. I think Harden can be a PG down the line but not for another couple years, and it has to be a slow integration like Detroit did with Stuckey. Nonetheless, if we're drafting BPA, that player is Harden.
As for Derozen, he's still so raw. It'll be like having another Donte Greene. How are we doing to fit Derozan into an already crowded wing position? At least Harden can steal some mins because he's NBA ready, but Derozan will probably be in the D-League. I'd rather we stick with the Donte experiment and continues to groom him to be the SF of the future. Plus, I don't think Derozan is better than Harden.
As for his game, it's nothing like Kmart's. KMart is a pure scorer. Harden is the all-around player who can get you a triple double. He makes his teammates better, that's the key. If we're playing D'Antoni's small ball then Kmart and Harden would be a perfect one-two punch, but we're not and I'm not saying we should. So fitting in Harden and Kmart will be a challenge. I think Harden can be a PG down the line but not for another couple years, and it has to be a slow integration like Detroit did with Stuckey. Nonetheless, if we're drafting BPA, that player is Harden.
As for Derozen, he's still so raw. It'll be like having another Donte Greene. How are we doing to fit Derozan into an already crowded wing position? At least Harden can steal some mins because he's NBA ready, but Derozan will probably be in the D-League. I'd rather we stick with the Donte experiment and continues to groom him to be the SF of the future. Plus, I don't think Derozan is better than Harden.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I've already posted this, but Harden is a very good passer and very good at running an offense. At Arizona St. the offense ran through him. In many ways I think it had a negative impact on his overall game. He only shot the ball as a last resort most of the time, and still managed to score very effectively. On a team that ran the triangle offense, he would be a perfect player.
Anyway, his game has no similarity to Martins. Martin is the energizer bunny, and Harden is Mr. Crafty
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The best hope for Harden is that he catches OKC's eye, not ours, and let's Thabeet slip a spot.
Nighthawk1
Starter
You do bring some good points to the table, so here is my question if we hypothetically take Harden, do we immediately or in advance work a deal to trade KMart for another lottery pick to take a talented PG? Maybe pair a Ty Lawson/Johnnie Flynn/Tyreke Evans with harden in our backcourt ?
J
jdbraver
Guest
I just want to clarify, Harden is definetly a 2. He is a guy that you don't notice immediately, but then you look up and he has great all around numbers. It is like Jerry Reynolds was saying you take the best player available, on a 17 win team every position needs help.
I like Harden's strength and his ability to do a little of everything. Also the fact that he lead the PAC 10 in steals.
I like Harden's strength and his ability to do a little of everything. Also the fact that he lead the PAC 10 in steals.
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True, but is he going to get any PT behind Kevin Martin? I know every position needs help, but SG is probably the least of those worries. He would be a very nice backup at SG. But there are some big hole in the starting lineup and Harden isn't that better than other players in the same range.
allrightythen
Starter
I like that idea.
It kinda bothers me when a prospect is undersized and not a great athlete at the same time and those seem to be the most common weaknesses I read about Harden. Might prove me wrong though and be great..wouldn't be the first time.
Kings Faithful
Starter
Harden would actually be my first choice at #4 or even #3... but like most people i have a problem having him and Martin playing the same position...neither of them are big enough for the 3 either. We should start him at PG...how much worse can he be than Beno at running the point? He may not look like a point guard but he has the skills to do so.
Dreadnought
Bench
I vaguely recall reading an article earlier in the year stating that most scouts actually believe Griffin will merely be average, while Harden shows skills that will make him a great player. Nonetheless, I would have no problem with either Jennings or Harden.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
His weakest aspects are ball handling and athleticism -- he would get killed at the point. He can pass, but there's no way he oculd bring it up or defend the darts.
Kings Faithful
Starter
You know, I really liked Harden because he is ready to play in nba right away. But after shocking lottary day, I've decieded to go with the player with most potential, DeRozan. We need a super star, but we don't have number 1 pick. I think DeRozan has most potential in this year's draft. He could be a super star in the league, and of course, he could be a bust. Either way, it's better than chosing another medicore player who won't change this franchise.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I don't know, I'd probably draft the guy that resembles Brandon Roy over the guy that resembles Sam Dalembert regardless of need.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Was pretty much the main guy that did it at Arizona State. If you watched him play you'd realize his role within the offense really was that of a PG.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
I don't know what you're talking about, because his handle really isn't good. Most of his turnovers came from lousy ball handling. He's a good passer, and the offense did run through him alot, but he rarely brought the ball up. Really don't know why you'd say otherwise.
beb0p
Starter
Harden did bring the ball up in the games that I watched. I estimate about 30% to 45% of the time it's Harden bringing it up in half-court situations.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
He is incapable of bringing the ball up under pressure. Walking up the court with the ball a few times a game does not equivalate to being a PG. Anyone who attempts to play Harden as a PG is going to fail miserably, plain and simple.
beb0p
Starter
He did bring the ball up under pressure. I'm not saying he has the same handle as Chris Paul but he did share PG duties in college.
I wouldn't rule out Harden as a PG. I don't think he's ready to be a PG now, but down the line I can see that as a possibility. Quite a few SG switched to PG as their career progress, including Joe Dumars. And I see some similarity between Harden and Dumars.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
That is just really hard to see. Not in the NBA. Not with a SG next to him so that he is the primary ballhandler. I would trap him every time down the floor and he'd average 10 TOs a game. By NBA standards he's not even a good ballhandler for an OG. Trying to make James Harden, who might struggle athletically at OG, into a PG, is just desperation. Rubio is a PG. Jennings is a PG. Lawson is a PG. Evans might be a PG. Curry could be a PG, if you squint. Harden is a SG. Nudge me if he loses 20 lbs, but I don't think that would truly matter either -- his lack of athleticism is not primarily weight derived. You could maybe, MAYBE, pair him with a combo guard of some sort who could help bring the ball up against pressure (like Foye in Minnesota), but that is alot of work to go through for a guy who may not be that good anyway.
As an aside, Dumars was never much of a PG -- that was out of position for him. He could fill in, ran it in very drab fashion when they had nobody better, but created nothing. And he entered the league weighing 190 and with defensive quickness. Harden goes 225, and its a slowish 225.
As an aside, Dumars was never much of a PG -- that was out of position for him. He could fill in, ran it in very drab fashion when they had nobody better, but created nothing. And he entered the league weighing 190 and with defensive quickness. Harden goes 225, and its a slowish 225.
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Hallama
Starter
This is definitely a draft that Petrie should sit out. He'll be all over Harden, and it'll be a good pick. Petrie won't be able to resist his basketball skill set (best in the draft).
However, the probability that one of the home run picks like Jennings, Holiday, Evans, or DeRozen will surpass Harden in NBA stardom. But which one?
Petrie, imo, won't be able to pull the trigger on anybody buy Harden. I think OKC will take a long look at him though.
Kings need a star, even if it takes a few years to develop one of the younger athletic kids.
However, the probability that one of the home run picks like Jennings, Holiday, Evans, or DeRozen will surpass Harden in NBA stardom. But which one?
Petrie, imo, won't be able to pull the trigger on anybody buy Harden. I think OKC will take a long look at him though.
Kings need a star, even if it takes a few years to develop one of the younger athletic kids.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I don't pretend to know what Petrie is going to do, and based on his past draft history, anyone that claims to know is just kidding themselves. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Kings draft Holiday, who, by the way has just as big an upside as DeRozan and also fills a need.
If it were me, I would find a way to trade down for another pick and draft Flynn. He's quick and tough and a pretty darn good pt guard. The Kings need a point guard and there are a lot of them in this draft not named Rubio. If Griffin, Rubio, and Thabeet are all gone by the time we pick, I don't see a lot of difference in talent between the points that are left. One of two of them is going to be very good and maybe even a star. If I were going to gamble on someone that might turn out to be an impact player, it would be Evans. He's quick. Handles the ball well and played the point very well when given the chance. He's has great size for the position. He would be less of a risk than DeRozan, who has proved nothing at this point.
Petrie has a good track record in the draft, so I'm sure he'll get a vey good player. Whether its an impact player is another question.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
To me, he's the default pick if they don't pick Evans. I actually think he's the most likely pick for the Kings because the Kings put a very high premium on shooting, less on athleticism.
He's a bull, but not very quick. Excellent shooter. I wouldn't say he's a good defender, but probably not bad. Quicker 2-guards like Martin will really give him trouble on D. He would give us physicality that we're missing at the two. He has good basketball IQ. What really bothers me though is that we are compiling a team of mediocre athletes. Hardin fits in the same category. We desperately need athleticism on this team, and Harden doesn't fit that bill. I will say this though - when Martin is out for 25% of the games, Hardin will be nice to have.
He's a bull, but not very quick. Excellent shooter. I wouldn't say he's a good defender, but probably not bad. Quicker 2-guards like Martin will really give him trouble on D. He would give us physicality that we're missing at the two. He has good basketball IQ. What really bothers me though is that we are compiling a team of mediocre athletes. Hardin fits in the same category. We desperately need athleticism on this team, and Harden doesn't fit that bill. I will say this though - when Martin is out for 25% of the games, Hardin will be nice to have.
beb0p
Starter
The fact is, Harden is a good ball-handler. Mind you, he's not on par with that of an NBA PG, but saying his handle is below par for an OG is simply not being informed, because he wouldnt be asked to share PG duties otherwise. Even in college, coaches don't assign playmaking duties to guys who can't dribble, you know.
Of course I said nothing about Harden being ready to step in and be the PG now or even in the near future. But he has what you can't teach in a PG - able to make teammates better and ability to control the tempo; with those two qualities and with him being very coachable and hardworking, it's not impossible that he may play PG someday. It does not mean he can only strive at PG because he's a natural SG and he will do perfectly fine at the two spot.
Harden's game is not based on athleticism. He's never going to be a Wade or Kobe, but he gives you stats across the board and he makes teammates better. Put Harden next to Beno and Martin and they'll have career years (of course your defense get killed but that's besides the point). That's the appeal of Harden: a guard who can score, pass, and control the tempo.
I like guys who can contribute across the board. Guys who's capable of a triple-double. That's why I like Harden. However, if you prefer the athletic scoring machine like JRich and V Carter, then I reckon Harden is probably not your cup of tea.
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