If you were coach, who would you use as a starting 5 for the rest of the year?

RookieOfTheDay

RookieOfTheDay

Starter
I thought this would be interesting to see if there's any sort of consensus at all among fans here on what the lineup should be, seeing as how Westphal has taken so much criticism for the constant juggling of the starting lineup. It’d be funny if we couldn’t agree on who should start, either.

Pick 5 players to finish out the year as your starters, sink or swim.....

I’d go with

C Cousins
PG Beno
PF JT
SG Evans
SF Casspi

For back ups I’d use

C Dalembert
PG Luther Head
PF Landry
SG Garcia
SF Greene
 
Start:
Evans
Garcia
Green
JT
Cousins

Complete Bench
Beno
Head
Caspi
Landry
Dally

Whiteside gets all the extra 4 and 5 minutes(if there are any) and Pooh gets the 1 and 2 (if needed). This gives a rounded offense and defense to both the starters and the bench. Either JT or Cousins would be high post at one time meaning there is only 1 defender at most clogging the paint down low. Offense would run through Evans for kickout to either Garcia or Green if he finds his shot or a 14 footer JT or cousins and run down low through Cousins with double teams and passes out slashers or JT. Pick and Roll a little please.

The complete Bench offense would run through Beno as a drive and pull up or kick, Casspi as a 3 threat with Head secondary 3pshooter or Casspi slashing and Landry post or short jumpers. This would be a little more 1 on 1 then the starters but hopefully less then the offense we run right now.
 
PG - Beno (25-35 mpg)
SG - Tyreke (35-40 mpg)
SF - Green (30-35 mpg)
PF - Thompson (or Cousins) - 25-30 mpg
C - Dalembert (20 mpg)

Reserves -

Head (20-25 mpg)
Casspi 20-25 mpg
Landry - 20-25 mpg
Cousins (or Thompson) - 20-25 mpg

The rest don't get up off the bench under any circumstances.
 
I'd go with Westphal's choice every time. No matter how you sort our cards (players) I believe the results would likely be the same.
 
pshn80 said:
I'd go with Westphal's choice every time. No matter how you sort our cards (players) I believe the results would likely be the same.
Click to expand...

That's probably the case, but that's not really what this season should be about; this season should be about figuring out exactly how good these younger players will be and what our focus in free agency should be when the new collective bargaining agreement goes into place.

Younger players who get a lot better usually improve a ton from years 1-2 and 2-3. At this point, none of us know how good Thompson, Greene, Tyreke, Casspi and Cousins will end up. That's all part of the fun of things.

This is why I really get irritated when I see Jackson taking minutes from Thompson or Cousins. Even though he may technically "qualify" as a younger player, we've seen enough from him to know he'll never be anything more than a very mediocre backup PF because he has no offensive game/moves and doesn't block shots.
 
Evans
Head
Greene
Thompson
Cousins

This gives us the best perimeter defense, 2 rebounders, 2 offensive threats, 2 garbage/glue guys and one spot up shooter. It gives us a balanced inside outside attack especially if Greene could make threes.

A second unit of Beno, Franny, Casspi, Landry and Dally gives us 2 scorers, 2 defenders and a set up guy.

The main problem with this is the rookie mistakes and inefficient offense out of Cousins so far. When his shooting percentage goes up and he settles down on defense I think this gives us the best chance to win.
 
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Reke
Garcia
Greene
JT
DMC

It's pretty much the lineup that would hopefully get our lack of an offense going while allowing Reke to flat out run the team while getting his. It also sets up a very nice offensive bench with Dally as our clean up man defensively. If we are going to lose alot this year I'd much rather lose with a less frustrating lineup with all of the players fitting in where they should be, while also allowing Landry to be much more effective against 2nd unit smaller bigs his most effective role as well.
 
Anyone who lists JT hasn't been watching the Kings close enough this season.

What possible justification for starting could there be for JT? That he's "young"?
 
IfAt1st said:
Anyone who lists JT hasn't been watching the Kings close enough this season.

What possible justification for starting could there be for JT? That he's "young"?
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Last season -

First two months, average 15/9.5 shooting 50%

Last month of last season - averaged 15/10 shooting 50%

The time in between, when injured, averaged about 9/7 shooting an awful 38, 39%.

If he was a starting PF or C and averaged 15/10 shooting 50%, he would be an above average player. Right now, with his inconsistent minutes, we'll never know.
 
better rebounder and defender with just as good of an 18 footer as Landry. Possibly creates more ball movement as well with Landry on the bench.
 
Head/Reke/Greene/DMC/JT

I think this is a lineup that we should at least try. We might not have the defensive presence of Dalembert, or the on n off scoring of Landry, but they are all young and might feel more comfortable playing with each other. It might even be good for JT. Im sure hed like to start alongside Reke and Greene so he'd try not to mess it up by committing dumb fouls. Also DMC would get a chance to run with the youngins. He has enough size to alter shots, and i think Jt with his energy and size could make for a pretty decent backcourt on defense. They wouldnt have a real veteran presence among them, but when did we ever besides Garcia or Beno. I just think because theyre so young that itd make for an extra effort and desire to do well while feeling comfortable among each other if they made mistakes.
 
iowamcnabb said:
better rebounder and defender with just as good of an 18 footer as Landry. Possibly creates more ball movement as well with Landry on the bench.
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WHA?!?!
Just as good of 18 fter as Landry?
What is this statement based on?
LAST YEAR?
It is factually inaccurate from this year, since JT has maybe made 2 shots of more than 10 ft this entire season so far. I'd love to have access to a website that shows how many 18 fters JT has made this year as opposed to Landry (or Darnell Jackson, for that matter).
And ball movement? I guess you haven't noticed how many times JT has looked absolutely laughable when he gets the ball outside the paint and there's a defender guarding him. The man cannot create his own shot.

And he can't pass for crap, either. He's getting he same amount of assists as Landry, and I know there's been a lot of wide-open misses by Landry's teammates when he gets it to them underneath (or DMC is fouled when Landry has set him up).

Landry's had 2 sub-par games (after 4 GREAT games), and he's still averaging 14+ pts a game and creating his own shot.
You guys are suggesting removing those 14 pts from the board when the Kings desperately need them and his plays. As much as you guys don't like him shooting that 18 ft jump shot, it's one of the few plays that is occasionally scoring for the Kings this year.

The amount of painfully-dumb plays that would be made with a starting lineup of JT and DMC would be off the charts - it would make lowlight reels league-wide.
 
IfAt1st said:
WHA?!?!
Just as good of 18 fter as Landry?
What is this statement based on?
LAST YEAR?
It is factually inaccurate from this year, since JT has maybe made 2 shots of more than 10 ft this entire season so far. I'd love to have access to a website that shows how many 18 fters JT has made this year as opposed to Landry (or Darnell Jackson, for that matter).
And ball movement? I guess you haven't noticed how many times JT has looked absolutely laughable when he gets the ball outside the paint and there's a defender guarding him. The man cannot create his own shot.

And he can't pass for crap, either. He's getting he same amount of assists as Landry, and I know there's been a lot of wide-open misses by Landry's teammates when he gets it to them underneath (or DMC is fouled when Landry has set him up).

Landry's had 2 sub-par games (after 4 GREAT games), and he's still averaging 14+ pts a game and creating his own shot.
You guys are suggesting removing those 14 pts from the board when the Kings desperately need them and his plays. As much as you guys don't like him shooting that 18 ft jump shot, it's one of the few plays that is occasionally scoring for the Kings this year.

The amount of painfully-dumb plays that would be made with a starting lineup of JT and DMC would be off the charts - it would make lowlight reels league-wide.
Click to expand...

He hasn't had the opportunity to shoot that shot this year but why totally disregard one of his positives from last year?

He isn't great at creating his shot but that isn't the point. He scores without offense running thru him as he is primarily a clean up guy. His role in the starting lineup would be rebounding, defending and cleaning up.

If Reke was scoring like the number one we want him to be and Cousins continues to progress, JT's game would be a better fit in the starting lineup as opposed to Landry's.
 
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lemme get this straight -

you (and apparently other KF's) are actually basing your coaching starting lineup "decision" based on what the players did LAST YEAR, and IF Reke was doing well, and WHEN DMC gets better?!

No offense, guys - but I am really glad the Kings coaching staff doesn't listen to many of you.
 
IfAt1st said:
lemme get this straight -

you (and apparently other KF's) are actually basing your coaching starting lineup "decision" based on what the players did LAST YEAR, and IF Reke was doing well, and WHEN DMC gets better?!

No offense, guys - but I am really glad the Kings coaching staff doesn't listen to many of you.
Click to expand...

You're talking so much nonsense. Of course people are gonna go off last years production from players. They're all young and we've only played 13 games this year. The muffling of the line ups and substitution patterns have made it very difficult for players to get some consistency and play well. You have no idea what in the world you're talking about.
 
Im not basing my 'decision' on an 18 footer from last year. I'm basing it on bad defense, bad rebounding and lack of ball movement once its in Landry's hands from this year. And for the record, we are 4-9. What we are currently doing is not working and the whole idea behind a rebuild is to develop the players that are likely to be with you in the future.
 
IfAt1st said:
lemme get this straight -

you (and apparently other KF's) are actually basing your coaching starting lineup "decision" based on what the players did LAST YEAR, and IF Reke was doing well, and WHEN DMC gets better?!

No offense, guys - but I am really glad the Kings coaching staff doesn't listen to many of you.
Click to expand...
You think the previous year doesn't count? A players history doesn't count? You want Landry to start, and keep his starting job based on what exactly? He's been remarkably inconsistent as a starter this year, and is well below average as a starting pf when it comes to rebounding and defense. This year hasn't been much of a success for Landry. But...

I assume you want Landry to start based on what he did as a starter for us LAST YEAR. There is nothing else to go on. Except for his 25-30 game stretch as a starter last year for us, his only success has come from off the bench.

So you discount what JT did last year, and according to you, what players did the previous year is irrelevant, yet the only reason Landry is considered a starter is because of what he did last year. Can't be any more hypocritical than that.
 
IfAt1st said:
WHA?!?!
It is factually inaccurate from this year, since JT has maybe made 2 shots of more than 10 ft this entire season so far. I'd love to have access to a website that shows how many 18 fters JT has made this year as opposed to Landry (or Darnell Jackson, for that matter).
Click to expand...

It's called 82games.com. Right now (not including the Jazz game, because they have no updated yet.) on Jump shots JT is 8/24 and Landry is 33/82

IfAt1st said:
And ball movement? I guess you haven't noticed how many times JT has looked absolutely laughable when he gets the ball outside the paint and there's a defender guarding him. The man cannot create his own shot.
Click to expand...

I would guess that when playing with a Healthy Evans and Cousins that might be the least valuable skill he could have. We should not be worried about our #4 option creating their own shot. What team does?

IfAt1st said:
And he can't pass for crap, either. He's getting he same amount of assists as Landry, and I know there's been a lot of wide-open misses by Landry's teammates when he gets it to them underneath (or DMC is fouled when Landry has set him up).
Click to expand...

http://knickerblogger.net/statpage/2011/Kings.htm

Landry Assist Ratio: 4.3 (One of the lowest in the league)
Thompson Assist Ratio: 11.1 (Between Tayshaun Prince and Kevin Martin)

IfAt1st said:
Landry's had 2 sub-par games (after 4 GREAT games), and he's still averaging 14+ pts a game and creating his own shot.
You guys are suggesting removing those 14 pts from the board when the Kings desperately need them and his plays. As much as you guys don't like him shooting that 18 ft jump shot, it's one of the few plays that is occasionally scoring for the Kings this year.

The amount of painfully-dumb plays that would be made with a starting lineup of JT and DMC would be off the charts - it would make lowlight reels league-wide.
Click to expand...

So last stat through the Jazz game:
Carl Landry -85
Jason Thompson +10

I know +/- is not a very reliable stat and has a lot of caveats but at some point I think it would be wise to try something different. I thought we should have traded Landry during the offseason, and I still think we should trade him now.
 
IfAt1st said:
You are getting to be a joke.

Tell you what - when you stop assuming and stop making up things in your head, I'll discuss Kings issues with you.
Click to expand...
Quit acting like a troll. If you don't see how you consistently contradict yourself, that's your problem. Nor do you have the ability to offer anything substantial to a conversation.

IfAt1st
ahhhhhhhh........ last season.

That explains it.

WHA?!?!
Just as good of 18 fter as Landry?
What is this statement based on?
LAST YEAR?

lemme get this straight -

you (and apparently other KF's) are actually basing your coaching starting lineup "decision" based on what the players did LAST YEAR, and IF Reke was doing well, and WHEN DMC gets better?!

Well, if you're not counting last year, what the hell exactly are you basing Landry's ability to be a successful starting pf on? Coming to camp out of shape? Lack of rebounding? Horrible defense? You akready had a chance to respond, and yet couldn't.

IfAt1st
"It is factually inaccurate from this year, since JT has maybe made 2 shots of more than 10 ft this entire season so far. I'd love to have access to a website that shows how many 18 fters JT has made this year as opposed to Landry (or Darnell Jackson, for that matter)."

So you said something was factually inaccurate, and admit you don't have any hard stats to back that statement up with.

The only thing I assumed was that you judge all players equally, and would be fair to all players. You don't want to acknowledge what JT did as a starter last year, but want Landry to start based on what he did last year. Unless of course, you're telling me you want Landry to start based solely on what he has done since 9/27/10, which is retarted. Yet, that's exactly what you implied with your response.



​
 
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iowamcnabb said:
Evans
Head
Greene
Thompson
Cousins

This gives us the best perimeter defense, 2 rebounders, 2 offensive threats, 2 garbage/glue guys and one spot up shooter. It gives us a balanced inside outside attack especially if Greene could make threes.

A second unit of Beno, Franny, Casspi, Landry and Dally gives us 2 scorers, 2 defenders and a set up guy.

The main problem with this is the rookie mistakes and inefficient offense out of Cousins so far. When his shooting percentage goes up and he settles down on defense I think this gives us the best chance to win.
Click to expand...

I actually agree with this lineup no matter how much it pains me to say Head at starting PG. i would rather Head slow the opposing teams offense down guarding their PG, and let Tyreke facilitate through Cousins (who we could run an offense through, especially as he gets better and learns the NBA). JT gives us solid defense, also willingly passes, and can throw some garbage points up but a pretty reliable jump shooter when shown in the past. Dally and Landry could be a our first bigs off the bench, and Landry could be the go-to guy off the bench he can score pretty well, but his defense is subpar, and has shown to be a black hole lately which is fine off the bench. Beno/Landry/Casspi should be able to outscore opposing benches and defend just well enough to where it's not a complete defensive breakdown with Dally, Garcia, and Casspi.
 
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