I believe the rebuilding has begun

[bajaden]

they played without oden this year and were a borderline playoff team up until the end of the season... the kings were garbage the entire season... i dont see how they'd be better than the blazers unless they got the number 1 or 2 pick last year and oden actually played for the kings.....

In 2007 the Trailblazers ended up with a 41/41 record. They were 16 games out of first place, and at the end of the season, were, in reality, no where near a playoff berth. They started fading after the all star break. No one expected them to make the playoffs and they were a pleasant surprise.

In 2007 the Kings ended up with a 38/44 record. They were 19 games out of first place. Thats a three game difference between the final finish of both teams. To you, thats the difference between being a good upcoming team, and garbage.

Portland started their rebuild program after the 2002 season. Not because they wern't a good team at the time. But because the fans were sick and tired of seeing their players pictures at the local post office. They were forced to rebuild, or lose their fan base. No one is arguing that they haven't done a good job. They have, but they also had a head start on the Kings.

The Kings didn't really start their rebuild program until after the 2005 season. Thats three years later. Now you could argue that they should have started sooner. Particularly in light of the slow decline in wins. But they still had a 44/38 record and made the playoffs in 2005. I think, and these are just my thoughts with no facts to base them on, that it was the Maloof's more than Petrie that tried to extend the playoff record. Understandable, considering that the playoffs meant money in their pockets, and after all, it is a business.

I think the reality of the situation finally started to sink in to the Maloof's during the 2006 season, because the word rebuild started to show up in conservations. Begrudgenly perhaps, but finally. The word rebuild, has a bad financial taste to it. Along with it comes unhappy fans and lower attendance. So you can see why owners have to sometimes be dragged to the table.

I think the Kings are on the right track now. It will take a couple of years, but they will become competitive, and, hopefully fun to watch as well. Thats just my opinion, and not fact.

It is my wish that people would use language that really fits the circumstance. It is not my intention to pick on you in particular, but the use of the word garbage is a little extreme in my opinion. Garbage is something to be thrown away. Discarded. Of no value to you.

And remember, that one man's garbage is sometimes, another man's treasure. So be careful what you discard so easily.

 

[VF21]

In 2007 the Trailblazers ended up with a 41/41 record. They were 16 games out of first place, and at the end of the season, were, in reality, no where near a playoff berth. They started fading after the all star break. No one expected them to make the playoffs and they were a pleasant surprise.

In 2007 the Kings ended up with a 38/44 record. They were 19 games out of first place. Thats a three game difference between the final finish of both teams. To you, thats the difference between being a good upcoming team, and garbage.

Portland started their rebuild program after the 2002 season. Not because they wern't a good team at the time. But because the fans were sick and tired of seeing their players pictures at the local post office. They were forced to rebuild, or lose their fan base. No one is arguing that they haven't done a good job. They have, but they also had a head start on the Kings.

The Kings didn't really start their rebuild program until after the 2005 season. Thats three years later. Now you could argue that they should have started sooner. Particularly in light of the slow decline in wins. But they still had a 44/38 record and made the playoffs in 2005. I think, and these are just my thoughts with no facts to base them on, that it was the Maloof's more than Petrie that tried to extend the playoff record. Understandable, considering that the playoffs meant money in their pockets, and after all, it is a business.

I think the reality of the situation finally started to sink in to the Maloof's during the 2006 season, because the word rebuild started to show up in conservations. Begrudgenly perhaps, but finally. The word rebuild, has a bad financial taste to it. Along with it comes unhappy fans and lower attendance. So you can see why owners have to sometimes be dragged to the table.

I think the Kings are on the right track now. It will take a couple of years, but they will become competitive, and, hopefully fun to watch as well. Thats just my opinion, and not fact.

It is my wish that people would use language that really fits the circumstance. It is not my intention to pick on you in particular, but the use of the word garbage is a little extreme in my opinion. Garbage is something to be thrown away. Discarded. Of no value to you.

And remember, that one man's garbage is sometimes, another man's treasure. So be careful what you discard so easily.

My opinion, too. And a nice post.

 

[tyrant]

i read AriesMar27's posts very carefully. and i must say i agree with most of the things said. now portland began their rebuild before the kings, but the kings shouldnt of waited so long to begin theirs. the rebuilding shouldve began when webber was traded. it didnt. instead we made alot of unnecessary moves. very unnecessary. the blazers started early but they're still not THAT much better than we are right now. i am not going to put faith in the guys we just picked up. they have to earn their stripes. and that was one thing bajaden and i agreed on. and it confused us both at the same time. no one knows what type of player thompson will be. so its best to just sit back and watch. because there is a very thin line between bust and success right now

 

[AriesMar27]

the blazers ended up at .500 playing guys that are still on their rookie contracts... the only players in their regular rotation that arent on rookie contracts are steve blake and pryzbilla... the kings didnt even have 5 players still on their rookie contracts... they had 4 martin, garica, douby and hawes...

if the kings had ended at .500 with only their young players we'd all be doing backflips talking about how we are 1 piece away from being a competitive team.

 

[AriesMar27]

now that i think about it.... the only thing that the blazers have done wrong in the past couple of years was trading their pick in the 2005 draft... they had the 3rd pick.... the blazers could have had deron williams or chris paul.... i like martell webster but damn.... hell azibuike was undrafted... they could have drafted paul(3rd) and david lee(27th), then picked up azibuike as a free agent... it was a huge mistake but it was probably the only one that their front office has made in the past 4 years...

in that same period of time we've traded webber for kenny thomas, signed rahim, salmons, moore and beno to full mle contracts and drafted douby. yet there are some of you who actually think that we are on the same level or even better off than the blazers... c'mon people... we are barely better off than the sonics and grizzlies... well in the grizzlies defense, they have antoine walker and jaric yet they are still under the cap... thats a miracle in itself.

 

[AyeCarly]

the blazers ended up at .500 playing guys that are still on their rookie contracts... the only players in their regular rotation that arent on rookie contracts are steve blake and pryzbilla... the kings didnt even have 5 players still on their rookie contracts... they had 4 martin, garica, douby and hawes...

if the kings had ended at .500 with only their young players we'd all be doing backflips talking about how we are 1 piece away from being a competitive team.

3 of our best players missed a lot of games.

We ended the crucial part of the season 15-16 (after the All-Star break) when games mean more and playoff standings are in jeopardy. And that was with Ron screwing around and missing 3 games we should have won had he played (Clips 3/5/08, T-Wolves 3/7, Grizzlies 3/21)

We were 3-1 against Portland.

The Blazers ended 13-17 (after the break) while they were in the thick of the playoff race.

If any one can say the Blazers are one piece (Oden) away from being a competitive team, then so are we (regardless the age of our team).

 

[AriesMar27]

this team is far from 1 piece away from being competitive... unless that piece is lebron james.... hell lebron would probably choose the blazers over his current team... we didnt have bibby but we signed beno almost immediately and then traded bibby once he was healthy... who did we not have that was so crucial that the kings could have made the playoffs this season?

the rockets didnt have yao for almost 30 games and tmac for almost 20 yet they still made the playoffs... probably wouldve made it out of the 1st round if yao was there...

 

[NewMonkey]

3 of our best players missed a lot of games.

We ended the crucial part of the season 15-16 (after the All-Star break) when games mean more and playoff standings are in jeopardy. And that was with Ron screwing around and missing 3 games we should have won had he played (Clips 3/5/08, T-Wolves 3/7, Grizzlies 3/21)

We were 3-1 against Portland.

The Blazers ended 13-17 (after the break) while they were in the thick of the playoff race.

If any one can say the Blazers are one piece (Oden) away from being a competitive team, then so are we (regardless the age of our team).

The Blazers are going to get better because they're young. All good young players improve with experience. How are the guys who played major minutes on the Kings going to improve? Mikki Moore is going to make the same amount of improvement as LaMarcus Aldridge in two years? Brad Miller is going to get better at the same rate Greg Oden improves?

Many of the players who played major minutes for the Kings are either as good as they'll ever be (Artest, Salmons) or are declining due to age/health (Moore, Miller). Young players get better. Old guys don't.

 

[Telemachus]

this team is far from 1 piece away from being competitive... unless that piece is lebron james.... hell lebron would probably choose the blazers over his current team... we didnt have bibby but we signed beno almost immediately and then traded bibby once he was healthy... who did we not have that was so crucial that the kings could have made the playoffs this season?

Kevin Martin missed 21 games.
Ron Artest missed 25 games.
Brad Miller missed 10 games.
Beno missed 17 games. (the Kings basically played the first 15-20 games without a legitimate PG)
Only John Salmons, Mikki Moore, and Francisco Garcia played full seasons for the Kings last season.

As for Portland, we know that Oden missed the entire season (don't know how that would have impacted team). The most that any other significant player missed was 8 games (Brandon Roy).

 

[Spike]

now that i think about it.... the only thing that the blazers have done wrong in the past couple of years was trading their pick in the 2005 draft... they had the 3rd pick.... the blazers could have had deron williams or chris paul.... i like martell webster but damn.... hell azibuike was undrafted... they could have drafted paul(3rd) and david lee(27th), then picked up azibuike as a free agent... it was a huge mistake but it was probably the only one that their front office has made in the past 4 years...

in that same period of time we've traded webber for kenny thomas, signed rahim, salmons, moore and beno to full mle contracts and drafted douby. yet there are some of you who actually think that we are on the same level or even better off than the blazers... c'mon people... we are barely better off than the sonics and grizzlies... well in the grizzlies defense, they have antoine walker and jaric yet they are still under the cap... thats a miracle in itself.

Don't pick and choose, dude. The Kings have also drafted Martin, Hawes, and Garcia, who are certainly pieces of the future. The Sonics (Barons?) really don't have anyone besides Durant, and the Grizzlies....ugh. We'll see how this year's draft picks pan out.
To be certain, though, the Blazers have drafted well. They've also had a bit of luck.

 

[AriesMar27]

Don't pick and choose, dude. The Kings have also drafted Martin, Hawes, and Garcia, who are certainly pieces of the future. The Sonics (Barons?) really don't have anyone besides Durant, and the Grizzlies....ugh. We'll see how this year's draft picks pan out.
To be certain, though, the Blazers have drafted well. They've also had a bit of luck.

could you honestly say that the kings are top 10 team in the western conf? they were 11th last year and the clippers are now better than the kings...

martin, garcia, thompson and hawes are future pieces... but the blazers are nothing but future pieces... the only player that isnt apart of their future is lafrentz... the only players that arent apart of the kings future are artest, thomas, reef, moore, miller, beno, williams and salmons...


beno is young but no one is going to want him on the team in 2 or 3 years... he's a back up being paid starters money and minutes...

 

[AriesMar27]

Kevin Martin missed 21 games.
Ron Artest missed 25 games.
Brad Miller missed 10 games.
Beno missed 17 games. (the Kings basically played the first 15-20 games without a legitimate PG)
Only John Salmons, Mikki Moore, and Francisco Garcia played full seasons for the Kings last season.

As for Portland, we know that Oden missed the entire season (don't know how that would have impacted team). The most that any other significant player missed was 8 games (Brandon Roy).

im not picking and choosing... im well aware of how many games were missed and by who. the thing is that it wouldnt have made much of a difference. we have a bad team with a lot of bad contracts... the blazers have a very promising team with a ton of great contracts... only 2 players on that team make more than 5 mil... lafrentz at 12 mil (expiring) and pryzbilla at 5.7 mill... we've signed 4 players in the past 4 yrs that make more than that (5.7 mil) reef, salmons, moore, beno... we have 2 yrs left with miller and thomas making a combined 20 mill a year(thats 5 blazers). again, we'd all be doing back flips to be in their situation.... plain and simple...

 

[KingsCitizen]

If I'm not mistaken, Portland is still paying Steve Francis $17M this year, which makes them the 4th highest payroll in the NBA in 08-09 season with $81M.

 

[bajaden]

now that i think about it.... the only thing that the blazers have done wrong in the past couple of years was trading their pick in the 2005 draft... they had the 3rd pick.... the blazers could have had deron williams or chris paul.... i like martell webster but damn.... hell azibuike was undrafted... they could have drafted paul(3rd) and david lee(27th), then picked up azibuike as a free agent... it was a huge mistake but it was probably the only one that their front office has made in the past 4 years...

in that same period of time we've traded webber for kenny thomas, signed rahim, salmons, moore and beno to full mle contracts and drafted douby. yet there are some of you who actually think that we are on the same level or even better off than the blazers... c'mon people... we are barely better off than the sonics and grizzlies... well in the grizzlies defense, they have antoine walker and jaric yet they are still under the cap... thats a miracle in itself.

I assume that you read english. If so, go back and reread my last post. I'm tired of trying to re-explain the same facts over and over again. Nothing I said, disagrees with your last paragraph. What I posted was a discussion about time frame, and had nothing to do with who is better now. I do not argue, just for the sake of arguing. I've got better things to do with my time.

 

[Spike]

could you honestly say that the kings are top 10 team in the western conf? they were 11th last year and the clippers are now better than the kings...

martin, garcia, thompson and hawes are future pieces... but the blazers are nothing but future pieces... the only player that isnt apart of their future is lafrentz... the only players that arent apart of the kings future are artest, thomas, reef, moore, miller, beno, williams and salmons...


beno is young but no one is going to want him on the team in 2 or 3 years... he's a back up being paid starters money and minutes...

Dude, I never claimed the Kings were a top 10 team. Check the post again (seems to be a recurring theme.)

You don't know that Beno isn't a part of the future. How old is he again? Oh yeah, only 26. In three years, 29. If we find someone better by then, then we're replacing a 29 yr old. Certainly not Methuselah. 5 players. 5 that are on the youthful side. Truth be told, I don't mind having some vets on the team. The right players, skill-wise, chemistry-wise, are a good asset for a team that's rebuilding. In any case, the big contracts, sans Martin, are expiring soon anyway.

I recommend that you read what a lot of us have to say before replying. It seems like you're not following our points correctly. Sure, the Blazers are doing OK for themselves, but there isn't chopped living molding up the floor at Arco, either.

 

[tyrant]

beno is young but no one is going to want him on the team in 2 or 3 years... he's a back up being paid starters money and minutes...

this part i dont agree with. because beno could get a little better. on a team thats rebuilding he'll do for now. i wouldnt call 6 million starter money. definately wouldnt call it star money.

 

[AriesMar27]

his contract will end at like 7 million, thats a lot for someone who might get better... dude has scrub written all over him, swap him for ridnour or watson and the sonics/thunder wouldnt even notice... he's derek fisher minus the automatic jumper and leadership skills...

where would beno rate among starting pgs in the nba? definitely top 30... top 16? i cant think of a single playoff team with a worse pg...

 

[NME]

Bobby Brown instead of J-Will The Return?

Donte Greene instead of Odom auditioning for his next contract?

Hail hail, the rebuilding has begun.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

And it's about damned time!

 

[AriesMar27]

okay so this changes everything... does petrie now keep thomas, reef and miller as expiring contracts next year? because it'll be hard to package any of them without artest, except maybe miller....

 

[diggining]

Well, ignoring the actual $ that the Kings save, the only reason to dump large contracts on other teams is to free up cap room. Given the poor free agent class coming up next offseason, sticking with the veterans for one more season (unless a great deal comes along) may not be a bad idea.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well, ignoring the actual $ that the Kings save, the only reason to dump large contracts on other teams is to free up cap room. Given the poor free agent class coming up next offseason, sticking with the veterans for one more season (unless a great deal comes along) may not be a bad idea.

Reason one = cap space, yes.

but there is also:

Reason two = free up PT for the kids to develop

and

Reason three = lose a few more games playing the kids and get a better draft pick (and hence likely another better kid) next summer


Those are the rebuilding mantras. The Mike and Ron deals have been modest, but exactly the type of thing that needs done in a rebuild. Moving Brad now is even more necessary. I think only Mikki, as the affordable vet mentor who gets phased out this year, and John, who I would like to see gone but who could put up very cost effective numbers should have any role on a rebuilding team for us next year. And BJax of course, just being the vet backup PG/fan favorite while his contract runs out. That's more than enough.