QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
Tell us you don't know how a rebuild works without actually telling us you don't know how a rebuild works.
Fare thee well
- Thread starter FoxRocketFan
- Start date
I'll be the judge of that.
twslam07
All-Star
I posted this in another thread, but if the majority of our supporting cast (Murray, Huerter, Monk, Lyles, McDermott) were shooting their 3s simply at their career averages (they are collectively shooting 30.3% from 3 thus far this year), we would go from 12th in PPG to 4th in PPG. And we’d go from 13th in point differential to 7th in point differential.
That’s a pretty darn sizeable shift in team performance/effectiveness simply if the supporting cast shoots their career averages. But there are other ways for this team to improve on top of those supporting players just being the shooters they have been for their careers…
- Stop over helping and over doubling on defense. We collapse our defense without forcing the offense to collapse our defense. This is a main reason why we are 28th in opponent 3PA and 30th in opponent corner 3PA (not to mention we’re 26th in opponent 3P%). We give up too many good 3PT looks because of this defensive philosophy.
- Start Keon Ellis over Kevin Huerter. We have 3 high usage offensive players in Fox, DeRozan, and Sabonis and we’d like to continue developing Murray offensively. That 5th starter ideally is a low usage, 3&D specialist. That is exactly what Ellis is. Not only is he one of the better guard defenders in the league but he’s also proving to be an excellent C&S 3PT shooter. We also have some lineup stats (although it’s a small sample at only 35 min) that indicate a Fox - Ellis - DeRozan - Murray - Sabonis lineup is very effective considering it has a +45.2 Net Rating.
- Give Huerter a higher usage bench role. We’re currently 28th in bench points per 100 possessions. Now part of that is because Monk has been injured but we could desperately use another bench player who can provide a bit of scoring punch off the bench. Huerter can do just that as he’s not just strictly a 3PT shooter. Huerter and Monk would be a solid 1-2 punch while at the same time we would be able to hide their defensive deficiencies against opposing team’s bench units.
- Trade for a bigger 3&D PF. Even if we do #1-3 above (on top of our supporting cast returning to their career averages), I still think we’d fall short of being a “contender” (although I think we’d be in that #3-#6 range). A frontcourt of DeRozan, Murray, and Sabonis is undersized. Sabonis isn’t going anywhere at C and having DeRozan guard SGs is a recipe for disaster so we really need to make sure 1) our PF has above average size/length for his position and 2) our SG has above average size/length for his position. We know that Murray can guard SGs (and even some PGs) very well and we know that DeRozan has really good offensive guard skills in his ball handling and passing. If we add a 3&D PF who has above average size/length while moving Murray to SG defensively (DeRozan can be the SG on offense), we all of a sudden have really good size and length surrounding Sabonis who has below average size and length for his position. This will help us on the defensive and offensive glass and it will help us protect the paint.
If we pull all of that off, I think we have an outside chance at making an NBA finals (the west is brutal). However, a lot of that will also depend on how much Fox continues to ascend and if he can become a superstar.
TLDR: No, it’s not time to rebuild. There are still many ways for us to improve and build a formidable team around Fox, DeRozan, and Sabonis. The main thing is for the supporting cast to shoot the ball like they have done for their entire careers but there are other things that we can pursue to continue to improve our performance (stop over helping/doubling, start Ellis, move Huerter into a higher usage bench role, and target a 3&D PF in the trade market).
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"Your team sucks, we want your best player, and you should give him to us for our our B-tier list of assets so that we can use the better assets to go out and get another team's best player too."
This is not how you endear yourself to another team's fanbase. This is right out of the Lakers fan playbook.
This is not how you endear yourself to another team's fanbase. This is right out of the Lakers fan playbook.
I can see why a very frustrated with losing Fox would demand to go to the team we just smoked.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
I tried to warn everyone.
Anytime a thread is revived after such a long drought — it usually doesn’t go so well. This particular thread was awful from the get go. And just when you think it can’t get any worse ….
I really believe these guys are debating with a teenager. If not, that’s at least the level of mentality on display here.
Löwenherz
Starter
Now that the Rockets have lost to the lowly Kings in a random regular season game in December, it’s time to admit Houston is a team in decline and simply doesn’t have what it takes to reach the mountaintop in the playoffs.
Time to give us (the Kings) Sengun.
Our best offer is
Kevin Huerter
Keon Ellis
A half decade of picks and swaps
We’d offer Murray, but we’re hoping to use him in another trade for Giannis.
Rockets are not a true contender in the West. Not even close. Their peak is 3rd place and a second round sweep by the Mavs,
Worst case you sink to a low seed and get bounced by the Thunder in the first round, if not fall out of the playoffs entirely.
It’s time Rockets fans stop settling for the mediocrity that’s dogged them since Olajuwon retired.
Green and Sengun aren’t going to lead you to a title.
Smith is the guy you drafted to be the guy to lead you to a title, but his numbers are actually getting worse and no one wants him.
You need young guys and picks to rebuild, and trading Sengun is your best way to get them.
I fear some Rockets fans are not as far along in the stages of grief to realize trading Sengun is the best way to bring in assets for a rebuild.
Anyway, Sengun is awesome. Hope fans and the FO are ready to realize trading their best player for building blocks and draft picks while languishing in yet another years long project of patience and strife is best for the Rockets soon.
Fare Thee Well
Time to give us (the Kings) Sengun.
Our best offer is
Kevin Huerter
Keon Ellis
A half decade of picks and swaps
We’d offer Murray, but we’re hoping to use him in another trade for Giannis.
Rockets are not a true contender in the West. Not even close. Their peak is 3rd place and a second round sweep by the Mavs,
Worst case you sink to a low seed and get bounced by the Thunder in the first round, if not fall out of the playoffs entirely.
It’s time Rockets fans stop settling for the mediocrity that’s dogged them since Olajuwon retired.
Green and Sengun aren’t going to lead you to a title.
Smith is the guy you drafted to be the guy to lead you to a title, but his numbers are actually getting worse and no one wants him.
You need young guys and picks to rebuild, and trading Sengun is your best way to get them.
I fear some Rockets fans are not as far along in the stages of grief to realize trading Sengun is the best way to bring in assets for a rebuild.
Anyway, Sengun is awesome. Hope fans and the FO are ready to realize trading their best player for building blocks and draft picks while languishing in yet another years long project of patience and strife is best for the Rockets soon.
Fare Thee Well
You forgot to mention they need a new head coach.
PorchSurfin
Starter
Do it.
PorchSurfin
Starter
He singlehandedly lost this game but wants to be paid a max contract and is holding the franchise hostage. Trade his ass. Trim the fat.
megapoxy
Starter
He singlehandedly scored 25 of 45 Kings points in the 2nd half and he had some nice defensive moments as well in the last 2 quarters when most of his teammates were just spectators at both ends of the floor.
PorchSurfin
Starter
Trae Young can do the same thing. And he can be more efficient on a team with this level of talent
megapoxy
Starter
Then the Hawks won't trade for him.
PorchSurfin
Starter
The Hawks have been trying to trade him for 3 years. You daft?
megapoxy
Starter
No, are they daft to go for a... "less efficient player"?
PorchSurfin
Starter
Efficiency changes for players across teams. Kyrie was inefficient in New Jersey but amazingly efficient in Dallas (same for Harden and Durant). Stop being ignorant
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Put someone in there that defends next to him and maybe he won't have to make every shot in the clutch. Fox played like off ball Fox first half, 0-7 chucking 3's. Changed over to Fox on the ball next half and looked like the All star. That's on the coach. What's on Fox is that he doesn't have that killer mentality. I think Fox isn't the player Mike Brown is looking for or Brown isn't the coach Fox needs. This team can get rolling but the expectation was higher than playoff fodder.
megapoxy
Starter
Speak for yourself about ignorance please, who says that Fox will be efficient as a Hawk or Young will be efficient for the Kings? Let's agree to disagree and leave it like that.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
they finally found pieces that work around him specifically Daniels. They still probably can’t win it all as the best player but he has been really good this season especially distributing the ball. I’d say he is pretty locked in there
Rob-The-Great
Starter
You forget to mention, we where winning the game when he was 0-7.
When he took the game over, we started losing. You can take it how you want, but those are the facts
Double-K
Starter
FoxRocketFan
G-League
Can I ask why my posts were deleted in & I'm blocked from when everyone on the Kings forum is talking about a rebuild & trading Fox
https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/fare-thee-well.71687/
Anyways I hope you guys beat the Lakers.
https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/fare-thee-well.71687/
Anyways I hope you guys beat the Lakers.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Again it's about tone. Who do you think is carrying the team over the threshold in the end most nights? Fox. The Kings lost this in the clutch, again. That clutch part extended into the exact moment where the Kings offensive unit was getting smashed by the Pistons. Going defense might not have changed the result, but coaching is as much about adjustment as anything. That was clearly an adjustment to make at the time.
FoxRocketFan
G-League
Thanks for the unblock.
My post revolved around what a Kings / Rockets trade would be
Seems Kings fans are against a full tear down
So I was wondering the opinion on
Jalen Green + Jabari Smith Jr + Jock Landale + Jeff Green + Rockets 27 + 29 + Rockets 28 swap.
For
De'Aaron Fox + Trey Lyles + Orlando Robinson + Alex Len
Gives you 2 of our starters who are 22 & 21 & when they're in their prime you get extra DPs to find high quality players at a low cost.
My post revolved around what a Kings / Rockets trade would be
Seems Kings fans are against a full tear down
So I was wondering the opinion on
Jalen Green + Jabari Smith Jr + Jock Landale + Jeff Green + Rockets 27 + 29 + Rockets 28 swap.
For
De'Aaron Fox + Trey Lyles + Orlando Robinson + Alex Len
Gives you 2 of our starters who are 22 & 21 & when they're in their prime you get extra DPs to find high quality players at a low cost.
sactowndog
All-Star
I would do it but not sure the Rockets would.
Isn't Jalen Green a core piece for yall? Green/Amen/Sengun?
I'd say Reed and one of Tari/Jabri would be the most expendable pieces yall have. Those 2+picks seems like the most reasonable route here.
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