The Harry Giles option conundrum

[VF21]

What is the problem? I was responding to a comment by stating the factual situation.

If you don’t like facts or discussion, feel free to pm me.

Dude, you're coming across as more negative than Debbie Downer. Not every post has to be fact-checked, especially when some "facts" are still theory.

Because you're new here, you may not yet have gauged the spirit/tone of a lot of our long-tenured members.

 

[VF21]

This is exactly what I was trying to say earlier but more coherent and less snarky

 

[Kingz19]

Harry was just on Grant and Doug. Top of the second hour. Cool guy. The C word came up at the end as well

 

[SLAB]

Harry was just on Grant and Doug. Top of the second hour. Cool guy. The C word came up at the end as well

How’d that go?

 

[Kingz19]

How’d that go?

The whole interview was very good. Harry is very emotional about his climb through all these injuries and is very appreciative towards the fans.

For the C word. Grant surprisingly asked how he’s dealing with all the talk through social media and everything surrounding his contract situation. He gave the pro answer you’d expect about blocking it all out and being in the moment but him saying the words “the end” and “tough situation” and “tough decision” made me wince but I’m especially pissed they declined his option and it obviously didn’t give me any hope that Harry expects to be back next season...nor that he doesn’t expect to be back but we all know the Kings are in a tight spot with how he’s playing and Harry sounded like he knew there will be real options.

 

[KainLear]

How’d that go?

https://khtk.com/12036/harry-giles-iii-joins-the-grant-napear-show-with-doug-christie/
Check it out yourself, feels so genuine this young man...

 

[KainLear]

The whole interview was very good. Harry is very emotional about his climb through all these injuries and is very appreciative towards the fans.

For the C word. Grant surprisingly asked how he’s dealing with all the talk through social media and everything surrounding his contract situation. He gave the pro answer you’d expect about blocking it all out and being in the moment but him saying the words “the end” and “tough situation” and “tough decision” made me wince but I’m especially pissed they declined his option and it obviously didn’t give me any hope that Harry expects to be back next season...nor that he doesn’t expect to be back but we all know the Kings are in a tight spot with how he’s playing and Harry sounded like he knew there will be real options.

Yeah, I winced hard at that point too... I guess maybe because I was kinda dreaming in my head that he'd say something to calm me down...

 

[hgut]

Would it be possible to do a sign and trade with Harry? (Other team signing him and inmediately trading him to the Kings)

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Would it be possible to do a sign and trade with Harry? (Other team signing him and inmediately trading him to the Kings)

No.

Teams cannot sign-and-trade players who are not their own free agents.

 

[ockingsfan]

There is one bright spot of the season being suspended. If the rest of the regular season games are canceled, the Kings chances of retaining Harry Giles just improved.

With such a small sample size of games where HG started (17 games) and played well for us, the likelihood of a team going out and offering HG an oversized contract offer just went way down.

So there's that.

 

[Joshoua]

There is one bright spot of the season being suspended. If the rest of the regular season games are canceled, the Kings chances of retaining Harry Giles just improved.

With such a small sample size of games where HG started (17 games) and played well for us, the likelihood of a team going out and offering HG an oversized contract offer just went way down.

So there's that.

Literally the only chance but still 5million is chump change to team, why not offer that if you’re SA, Detroit, Charlotte, or NY

 

[ockingsfan]

Literally the only chance but still 5million is chump change to team, why not offer that if you’re SA, Detroit, Charlotte, or NY

If the NBA cancels the rest of the regular season, they will lose a ton on their total income for the year. That in turn will also cause the Salary Cap for next year to decrease significantly from projections. Next years salary cap may be a lower than this year.

Teams that thought they would have salary cap space next year, may not have as much to spend. A team may be less willing to offer a sizable enough contract to HG, given his extensive injury history.

I would think that a $5 million offer wouldn't be enough for HG to give up his Bird Rights, which could net him $10 million or more per year the following summer with the Kings.

 

[KainLear]

Just found some new evidence that Harry is staying... I mean how else can you ask someone to buy it if he leaves? Right? RIGHT????!!!

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

EDIT: Here's the link to the shirt.
https://thepeopleofsacramento.com/products/tpos-x-harry-giles-limited-edition

 

[ockingsfan]

Here's an article about Harry Giles pending free agency.

I would still put the odds of the Kings re-signing him at 60/40, with the likelyhood of a shorten or cancelled rest of the season actally helping the Kings to retain Giles. I believe retaining his Bird rights would be huge for Giles the following summer, as opposed to signing elsewhere for an extra 1 to 3 million this summer.

https://sports.yahoo.com/kings-20-questions-does-harry-191109183.html

 

[Joshoua]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...le-teams-on-harry-giles-at-nba-trade-deadline


Should’ve just took the damn trade more proof some team will throw more than the peanuts we can offer him

 

[Sluggah]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...le-teams-on-harry-giles-at-nba-trade-deadline


Should’ve just took the damn trade more proof some team will throw more than the peanuts we can offer him

this is so confusing.

 

[sactowndog]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...le-teams-on-harry-giles-at-nba-trade-deadline


Should’ve just took the damn trade more proof some team will throw more than the peanuts we can offer him

perhaps. If the salary cap drops teams may be limited to the minimum.

 

[Joshoua]

perhaps. If the salary cap drops teams may be limited to the minimum.

Hopefully

 

[The_Jamal]

Here's an article about Harry Giles pending free agency.

I would still put the odds of the Kings re-signing him at 60/40, with the likelyhood of a shorten or cancelled rest of the season actally helping the Kings to retain Giles. I believe retaining his Bird rights would be huge for Giles the following summer, as opposed to signing elsewhere for an extra 1 to 3 million this summer.

https://sports.yahoo.com/kings-20-questions-does-harry-191109183.html

Agreed here. I think teams are going to be super cautious with how they spend money in what was already going to be a slim FA market this summer. 2021 was already the summer to be a free agent in and I think the shortened season is going to lead to a lot of guys just taking 1 year deals and trying again next summer.

Owners will have to take into account that next season has a chance to be affected in terms of fans in the stands and even number of games as well. I don't think they can drop the salary cap for next season, but the year after could be a significant nose dive if things break the wrong way. Can't see many owners wanting to commit huge money contracts when the future is fairly uncertain.

 

[The_Jamal]

Also, this weirdly could work out for us.

It wasn't really talked about much outside of a few posts here and there this season, but we don't have Richaun Holmes bird rights when he becomes a FA after next season. So unless we open up some cap space, which seems unlikely with the Bogi extension looming, it's going to be fairly difficult to keep Richaun. If we can resign Len and Giles on the cheap this summer, we'll get bird rights on both of them (think I did that right since we inherited Len's 2 year deal with Atlanta and if we retain him next season). Len absolutely played himself into another look with us and if we do end up losing Holmes after next season, it'd be great to have Giles and Len right there to replace him.

 

[Jkbiker]

The most a team can offer an Early Bird free agent is 175% of his previous salary or 104.5% of the league-average salary, whichever is greater.
https://earlybirdrights.com/salary-cap/sac/

I think this shows that after next year, /Richaun will have Early Bird Rights?
If he does we can offer 175% of his 5mil Salary
So a 4 year contract starting at $8,750,000 could be offered even if we are over the cap?
Even if a 2 year contract to get even a bigger contract after 2 yrs?

I believe Alex Len will be in a similar situation this summer with his early bird rights
maybe a 175% offer at 7 Mil might be enough to keep him

I guess we need an Early bird Cap space offer expert to help with these calcs?

So Len and Richaun will be UFA but with many teams will little cap space
These Early Bird Max offers might work for us this year and next

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I feel like all speculation is mindless until they call the season or decide to run some kind of modified playoff to declare a champion. It's kind of like how the draft is going to be the biggest crapshoot in NBA history, I suspect teams may play it extra conservative if they were at all in the playoff race or fancied themselves contenders unless they get that chance to be humiliated or exceed expectations.

But if I had to bet, it would be on a lot of one year deals this offseason for players that don't merit max contract extensions.

 

[Jkbiker]

So it has been suggested that if Harry takes a 4 mil (max we can offer) with a player option for year 2, then
he can cash in for 10mil if we get his bird rights back?

My concern is with the potential lower cap and all of our cap holds are we even going to be able to offer the 4mil starting contract
if we have no cap space?

If we could sign Harry for 4m , Len for 7m, and Richaun following season for 8M, I would be real Happy!

 

[Section 101]

So it has been suggested that if Harry takes a 4 mil (max we can offer) with a player option for year 2, then
he can cash in for 10mil if we get his bird rights back?

My concern is with the potential lower cap and all of our cap holds are we even going to be able to offer the 4mil starting contract
if we have no cap space?

If we could sign Harry for 4m , Len for 7m, and Richaun following season for 8M, I would be real Happy!

We can go over the cap to sign Harry we have his bird rights.

 

[Hoovtrain]

We can go over the cap to sign Harry we have his bird rights.

Never mind misread

 

[KingsSelecao]

We can go over the cap to sign Harry we have his bird rights.

Actually, you’re wrong. The Kings did not make Giles an offer. So therefore, the Kings bird rights are null and void. Read the contract.

Giles will sign somewhere else, regardless.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

We can go over the cap to sign Harry we have his bird rights.

Actually, you’re wrong. The Kings did not make Giles an offer. So therefore, the Kings bird rights are null and void. Read the contract.

I don't know what "contract" you're talking about. How about a quote directly from the 2017 CBA, section 6(m)(4):

Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Agreement, if a player is a Veteran Free Agent following the second or third Season of his Rookie Scale Contract (where the first Option Year or second Option Year (as applicable) to extend such Contract was not exercised), then any new Player Contract between the player and the Team that signed him to his Rookie Scale Contract (and/or, if such Contract was subsequently assigned, any such assignee Team) may provide for Regular Salary, Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses in the first Salary Cap Year of up to the Regular Salary, Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses, respectively, that the player would have received for such Salary Cap Year had his first or second Option Year (as applicable) been exercised. Annual increases and decreases in Salary and Unlikely Bonuses shall be governed by Section 5(c)(2) above.

Thus, we can use our Veteran Free Agent rights (aka "Bird" Rights) to give Giles a contract - and exceed the salary cap in doing so! - but the first year of that contract cannot exceed the $3.9M that he would have earned had we picked up the option. We do not lose his Bird Rights, they are not null and void, but we are restricted in the value of a contract that we can offer him. If we sign him to a one-year contract and revisit next offseason, we will still have his Bird Rights, and at that point could give him any contract up to his maximum contract.

 

[Section 101]

Actually, you’re wrong. The Kings did not make Giles an offer. So therefore, the Kings bird rights are null and void. Read the contract.

Giles will sign somewhere else, regardless.

No you have no clue WTF your are talking about. What contract has anything to do with Bird rights?

They did not pick up his option. That has nothing to do with keeping his bird rights. The only way a team loses bird rights is by renouncing a player or the player signs with another team.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q32

Having his birds rights doesn't mean they can go over the $4 mil limit on his first year. It means they can be or over the cap to sign him.

Last time I click on show ignore content.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Last time I click on show ignore content.

Whoops, that would be my bad, huh? Was probably a bit confusing, you not being able to see his quote and all.

 

[Section 101]

Whoops, that would be my bad, huh? Was probably a bit confusing, you not being able to see his quote and all.

Your good! I saw his quote. You posted as i was typing.