If the Kings did draft Wall, how would his game fit with the other players? How would he work with Tyreke? Would he dominate the ball or can both he and Tyreke share it? Would he run the offense to perfection? If so, would that mean more of game like Dallas's with Jason Kidd's passing ability? How would that fit with Tyreke's game? With such a similar game to Tyreke's, would that mean Tyreke would be instantly expendable? Hard for me to see the team having limited deep shooting. Same thing for Casspi and Greene, really. I dont know what Reynolds thinks of their deep shooting, but both are inconsistent. So do you see a offense with limited deep shooting?
How would Wall's game fit?
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rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Personally, right now, I don't see them working well together and playing off each other like Tyreke and Beno do right now. I think we would end up watching Tyreke and Wall going one on one a lot and essentially just taking turns with the ball.
That being said, they are both so talented that we would be a better team, and definately win 5-10 more games. I just don't see it working as well as a Tyreke/Turner backcourt. Wall is a very inconsistent shooter, better than Tyreke, but not a great threat at the nba level. He's extremely quick and will be able to break guys down and get to the rim much like Tyreke, but needs the ball in his hands to do so. Neither plays well off the ball, or is mcuh of a threat from three.
That also could all change in a season or two. Both are talented enough to improve their shooting substantially over the next few years, which would only help them play with each other. Wall is naturally more of a playmaker, and I don't think would mind playing second fiddle to Tyreke in the scoring department. But if they both learn to become consistent outside shooters, and play off the ball, which I think they will do over the next few years, that could be one of the scarier offensive backcourts the nba has seen in years. They each would be able to break their man down pretty much at will, and create for themselves or others whenever needed. They would be virtually unguardable.
Defensively, the pairing doesn't have the potential of Tyreke/Turner. That doesn't mean I think they would be poor together, I still think they would eventually be above average. But IMO, a Tyreke/Turner backcourt would have the potential to be one of the best defensive backcourts in the league for a decade. The size and length they have and matchup problems they would create on both ends with a Tyrke/Turner combo would dominate.
So I think a Tyreke/Wall backcourt, could work, and would work, but would be more of a work in progress. Down the road I think they could be an unguardable pairing, but without the defensive upside a Tyreke/Turner backcourt would have. A Tyreke/Turner pairing would be a more natural fit, and would fit better into the team concept, and the ball movement would be better. A Tyreke/Turner backcourt compliments one another, while a Tyreke/Wall backcourt would be forced, and they would have to learn to play together.
At this point, I would rather have Cousins starting at center than Wall at point.
That being said, they are both so talented that we would be a better team, and definately win 5-10 more games. I just don't see it working as well as a Tyreke/Turner backcourt. Wall is a very inconsistent shooter, better than Tyreke, but not a great threat at the nba level. He's extremely quick and will be able to break guys down and get to the rim much like Tyreke, but needs the ball in his hands to do so. Neither plays well off the ball, or is mcuh of a threat from three.
That also could all change in a season or two. Both are talented enough to improve their shooting substantially over the next few years, which would only help them play with each other. Wall is naturally more of a playmaker, and I don't think would mind playing second fiddle to Tyreke in the scoring department. But if they both learn to become consistent outside shooters, and play off the ball, which I think they will do over the next few years, that could be one of the scarier offensive backcourts the nba has seen in years. They each would be able to break their man down pretty much at will, and create for themselves or others whenever needed. They would be virtually unguardable.
Defensively, the pairing doesn't have the potential of Tyreke/Turner. That doesn't mean I think they would be poor together, I still think they would eventually be above average. But IMO, a Tyreke/Turner backcourt would have the potential to be one of the best defensive backcourts in the league for a decade. The size and length they have and matchup problems they would create on both ends with a Tyrke/Turner combo would dominate.
So I think a Tyreke/Wall backcourt, could work, and would work, but would be more of a work in progress. Down the road I think they could be an unguardable pairing, but without the defensive upside a Tyreke/Turner backcourt would have. A Tyreke/Turner pairing would be a more natural fit, and would fit better into the team concept, and the ball movement would be better. A Tyreke/Turner backcourt compliments one another, while a Tyreke/Wall backcourt would be forced, and they would have to learn to play together.
At this point, I would rather have Cousins starting at center than Wall at point.
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perezident
G-League
It would be nice to have Wall on the team! This is just like the year Beasley and Rose came in the league. The Bulls already had Kirk, the obvious pick would have been Beasy -- however, they slid Kirk to the 2 and played Rose at PG. We will do the same thing IF we win the lotto i.e, slide Evans to the 2 and play Wall at PG. I think they can play together. People forget who Paul Westphal is: Offensively minded.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Are you trying to compare Evans (a future perennial all-star) at 21, to Hinrich (a role playing starter) at 27? You can rationalize Evans having an effect on who you take first, but you cannot with Hinrich.
Hinrich is not a long term solution for the Bulls at the 2, they're settling for this because he has some versatility, and keeping Gordon wasn't financially viable while Hinrich had an unmovable contract. Beasley can't compare to Turner, even as a prospect, and the gap between Wall and Turner is a lot smaller (if it exists at all) than it was between Rose and Beasley. So no, it's not like the 2008 draft at all.
Now, addressing whether Evans and Wall would work. While Wall has better off-ball play than Evans, they are both guards that need the ball in their hands to really be effective, and neither shoot the ball well. They'd eventually just end up taking turns pounding the ball. It would really be a waste of Wall's talent to pair him with Evans. I think we all just need to accept that Evans is going to be our PG and primary ball handler, there just isn't room for another ball dominant guard that can't shoot.
Wall would be the playmaker with Reke being the scorer. Wall dominates the ball, but unlike Tyreke he already makes much quicker decisions and gives the ball up sooner in the offense.
It might not work, but Wall would be the playmaker and Tyreke would need to learn how to be a part of a play when off the ball, which is something he needs to learn anyways.
It might not work, but Wall would be the playmaker and Tyreke would need to learn how to be a part of a play when off the ball, which is something he needs to learn anyways.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
The Kings are essentially already doing this by playing Beno and Tyreke together on the floor. With Beno equating to Hinrich. But Tyreke and Wall would be a different story. I sort of agree with Rainmaker. I can see it working, but it wouldn't be a perfect fit. And it wouldn't be an immediate one either. A lot of it would depend on where management thinks the team is right now in its development. If its 2 or even 3 years away, then maybe you go with Wall/Evans. If they think the future is sooner than later, then maybe trade the first pick for more picks while still trying to stay in the top four.
Sarunas
G-League
Sure Wall is an inconsistent shooter, but if anyone is, its Turner. It is one of the guys glaring weaknesses (but in his defense, it is the weakness of most guys coming out of college). So I dont think you can look into a players ability to shoot in his first 1-2 years as something of huge concern.
Also, I dont think Turner is near the caliber ballhandler to be our PG, or to fill a role like Beno plays. He only played semi-PG at Ohio State because they had no one else good enough to do it. I think Reke WILL playing off the ball a lot more once he gets his jump shot more consistent. He is not a PG. That would make the wall/reke pair work like it should.
I agree a Evans/Turner backcourt would be very nice defensively, but I'm not sure how much UK ball you watched, but Wall was probably the best defensive PG in college, especially down the stretch in big games. He came up with big stops/steals/and blocks when his team needed them. I dont think I can assume that a Evans/Turner defensive backcourt would be much better than a Wall/Evans defense.
Down the road a Wall/Evans backcourt could be unguardable, I agree. But isn't that what were shooting for here, down the road? Worst case we have two stud guards, and we trade one of them. Like mentioned before, it would be a NICE problem to have for a change.
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Chupacabra
Starter
I SERIOUSLY DOUBT that Evans will ever be a guy the Kings use to "play off the ball" like alot of people in here are saying. Use some common sense. Hes the most effective with the ball in his hands. Hes the best player on the team. Why in the hell would you start playing him off the ball?! Some people...
Sarunas
G-League
You seriously doubt it after watching Evans for one year? A big reason he needed the ball in his hands so much was because he didn't have an outside game that would result in him playing off the ball more. No one said Reke will be primarily off the ball and slashing/coming off screens all game like K-mart or Hamilton. He will always be our #1 guy/scorer, even if we had Wall. But will he play off the ball more in the next few years after his shot improves and we get a real bonafide PG? Yes I have to believe so.
hammystyle
Starter
Evan Turner is an excellent shooter. He's just hasn't taken a whole lot of 3's. He's a GREAT mid-range shooter who never got open 3's because of his role in the offense. You don't score 20 ppg on 52% as a PG without being a good shooter. They weren't all layups.
He's also an outstanding ball handler. I don't know how you can watch him and think otherwise.
Sarunas
G-League
For a 6'7'' guy he is a very good ballhandler, yes. But NBA PG ball handling material, or John wall ball handling level? I dont think so. And from the games I saw of Turner, a lot of his baskets did come from driving, cleaning up rebounds, putbacks, etc. I know he has a midrange game, but so does Wall. I'm not judging the shooting too much as I know most college players improve their shot exponentially at the next level.
I'm not saying I wouldn't want Turner. I'd be ecstatic to have him. I'd just prefer Wall, and am one who believes he would co-exist with Reke.
hammystyle
Starter
I agree in that I think Wall/Evans would be dynamite. I see some of the concerns, but think they're way overblown. However I think Turner is a better prospect than Wall overall, and I think Turner/Evans would be a much better backcourt.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I suspect that its his priority regardless of who we pick.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Gotta disagree a little. I watched Kentucky play 23 times this season. Of course they were on more than anyone else. Saw Ohio St. play 14 times. As far as shooting the ball. Yes its been noted that Turners big weakness, if you want to call it that, was his three pt shooting. But he shot 36.4% from 3pt land compared to Wall's 32.5%. Overall, Wall's percentage wasn't that bad at 46.1%. But once again Turner shot 51.9% overall. Turner is an excellent ballhandler. And he plays much more under control than Wall does. Which I attribute to having played two more years of college ball. Defensively, they're both very good. The only advantage Wall would have might be against the quicker players in the league. But then Turner would present matchup problems for the other team height wise. So lets call it draw defensively.
When it comes to rebounding the ball, its a no contest in favor of Turner. He almost averaged 10 boards a game to 4 a game for Wall. The Kings are calling Evans their point guard. I doubt that they're going to change directions every year because of who is in the draft. Toward the last half of the season Evans assists were going up and his turnovers were going down. Everyone raves about how great a point guard Curry turned out to be. But his assist and turnover percentages are almost identical to Evans. Curry averaged 5.9 assists and 3.0 turnovers for the year, while Tyreke averaged 5.8 assists and 3.0 turnovers. I might add that Curry is 22 years old. So I can't fathom why Curry is a pt guard and Tyreke isn't. Other than stubborness on the part of some.
If he is indeed the pt guard of the future, and a possible all star, I don't think you need another possible pt guard of the future and possible all star on the team at the same time. Doesn't mean you can't do it. But when you have the opportunity to draft another player thats a legit SG with all the other things that Turner would bring to the table, and is also a possible all star in the future. Then I think its a no brainer. At least for me.
If Wall ends up being a superstar, and Turner only ends up being an all star, but were winning or at least seriously competing for a championship, then I don't care if Wall is a superstar.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
The major part of Wall's game was going to the basket and finishing. His midrange shot is decent, but can't even be compared to Turner's. Turner is a magic man from midrange. His ability to freeze defenders was the mainstay of his offense. They never knew what he was going to do. Pull up and shoot or continue to the basket and finish, or dish the ball. His ballhandling is every bit as good as Wall's. The only advantage Wall has is speed. Which at times got him into more trouble than it helped him. Wall played on the edge a lot of the time.
My intent is not to diss Wall. Give him two more years of college basketball and I'm sure a lot of those bad habits will disappear. But right now, Turner is the better player. He almost single handedly willed his team into the tournament and almost the final eight. Name me all the other great players on the Ohio St. team. Then name the players on the Kentucky team. Wall, Cousins, Patterson, Orton, and Bledsoe. Turner had none of those guys on his team, but still took his team almost as far all by himself. I watched all these guys play. And without a doubt. The most impressive player I watched all year was Evan Turner.
I noticed that you said the he's not NBA point guard material. Well he doesn't have to be. Evans is our point guard. Thats the whole point of drafting Turner. He's a shooting guard with a lot of point guard skills. Which makes him a perfect compliment to Tyreke. So if your desire for Wall is predicated on Evans not really being a point guard, then the conversation is over for me, because frankly I'm sick and tired of that stupid conversation.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Sac.1989
Starter
This is what it comes down to, we lose a bit of superstar potential by drafting turner but efficiency wise it just seems a better fit.
We can draft wall sure, if it doesnt work out then trade whichever one we dont want to build around be it wall or reke. Yes its unpopular but if you cant say no to superstar potential thats the road we'll have to take.
All in all lets just hope we get a favourable bounce and good options are within our grasp come draft night
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Hallama
Starter
Hopefully Petrie will not look at which player fits best alongside of Evans and will instead look to which player holds the best ability to be an elite player. (assuming #1 pick) Wall may be a special player in the league, even surpassing Tyreke.
Personally, if Kings land the #1 I'd take Wall and keep him, regardless of how he fits with Tyreke. If it takes a year or two to work on chemistry or decide on moving one of the two, so be it. There will be a very high return in value for either one, imo.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I doubt the Kings can afford another 25 win season. Having said that, whatever they do in this offseason has to work toward the bettering of that record. I'm not saying that drafting Wall and putting him along side Evans won't do that. I'm just saying that Petrie and company can't afford to make any major mistakes. So they have to feel very sure that if they draft Wall, its not just some sort of experiment that they can rectify in a couple of years by trading either Wall or Evans. This franchise isn't in the position to have a setback. And that would be a setback.
Its time to decide on what pieces are going to be a part of the team and which aren't. At some point you have to put the same players on the court and let them play together for a while. And a while isn't just one year. The more they play together, the better they will become. The more you keep changing peices, the longer it will take to get back to the top. And I'm talking about the core pieces. Not the end of the bench sitters.
I've always been a BPA guy. But if I believe that the difference between number one and number 4 isn't that great, then I start looking at who might help the team the most. A better fit next to Tyreke? A big offensive, rebounding center? A big athletic PF that might blossom into a big time star? We may not even have to answer that question. We may end up 6th. Or maybe at best end up where we are right now. Even at 6th, we'll get a good player. This is a very deep draft.
This may also be the last time in a while that we will draft this high up. At least I hope so. So we need to make the best decision we can. Fortunately, I don't have to make that decision. Kind of wish I did though. I ask Bricky to be my assistant GM. What an exciting war room that would be...
King-Da-Yah
Starter
I doubt the Kings can afford another 25 win season. Having said that, whatever they do in this offseason has to work toward the bettering of that record. I'm not saying that drafting Wall and putting him along side Evans won't do that. I'm just saying that Petrie and company can't afford to make any major mistakes. So they have to feel very sure that if they draft Wall, its not just some sort of experiment that they can rectify in a couple of years by trading either Wall or Evans. This franchise isn't in the position to have a setback. And that would be a setback.
Its time to decide on what pieces are going to be a part of the team and which aren't. At some point you have to put the same players on the court and let them play together for a while. And a while isn't just one year. The more they play together, the better they will become. The more you keep changing peices, the longer it will take to get back to the top. And I'm talking about the core pieces. Not the end of the bench sitters.
I've always been a BPA guy. But if I believe that the difference between number one and number 4 isn't that great, then I start looking at who might help the team the most. A better fit next to Tyreke? A big offensive, rebounding center? A big athletic PF that might blossom into a big time star? We may not even have to answer that question. We may end up 6th. Or maybe at best end up where we are right now. Even at 6th, we'll get a good player. This is a very deep draft.
This may also be the last time in a while that we will draft this high up. At least I hope so. So we need to make the best decision we can. Fortunately, I don't have to make that decision. Kind of wish I did though. I ask Bricky to be my assistant GM. What an exciting war room that would be...
And the Kings would be set for a few years too.
