How "True" of a Point Guard Do We Really Need?

[Kingster]

I covet a guy like Chris Paul. Or a Tony Parker. They are ultra quick creating point guards. They are smaller, but their scoring and creating ability makes up for their size. But do you really need to have the "true" creating point guard on this team?

The Jordan Chicago Bulls didn't have one. The Shaq-Kobe Lakers didn't have one. And when you think about it, the King's team that nearly got to the final round didn't have one either. On top of that, we have a kid in Hawes who looks like at a minimum has as much basketball IQ and passing ability as either Vlade or Miller. He looks he is going to be a "creator" because he's going to make everyone around him better with his passing. So, do we have to have the "creator" point guard - the Chris Paul type - or can we do just fine with a bigger athletic guard who doesn't make turnovers, but also doesn't make as many assists because he's not the "creator" type?

My minimum requirements for a point guard are as follows. You need to have a pg who can get the ball up the court against strong pressure against the quickest point guards in the league. Then, if he's pressured he needs to make the other team pay by taking it to the basket, or dishing to someone once he gets near the basket. After that, all the additional "creating" ability he has is gravy. Then he obviously has to be a good outside shooter. Last, but no less important, he must make it uncomfortable for opposing point guards on defense. So the longer, the quicker, the better.

Westbrook anyone?

 

[RIP miyagi]

i think we just need someone who can get everyone involved physically and mentally. i doubt we could find someone like that right out of the draft, it may take a few years. But for the most part, i think we need better a better front court. Hawes is cool, but we have been lacking in the pf spot for a long time now. Just look at the hornets, their front court is one of the most athletic in the league and they go to town on other teams because chris paul brings it all together. so if we get a pf or a pg, i don't care, i just hope we address one of the needs, or both of them since we have 3 picks.

 

[One and Done]

I believe we are in dire need of a "true" point guard; one that can create, dish out good assist #, penetrate, and defend the point well.

I don't think that Beno Udrih is the answer, as he's not a great passer/creator...but he might be the best we can get right now.

I'd like to see more of a passer, as our offense can become so stagnant when our players get into one-on-one mode...and our average assist-per-game totals have dropped to levels of concern.

I don't think this draft has the point guards capable of leading us to the promised land (unless we have the #2 pick, that is)...

Hopefully in the future we are able to pick up a PG that will ignite an unselfish offense...

 

[Superman]

What's wrong with Beno?

I know he's not a "pure" point guard, but neither is Tony Parker. Guys like Chris Paul don't come around often, and you have to draft well to land one, which means you have to have good draft picks (not to beat a dead horse).

If we get a guy who can be a 10-13ppg scorer off the bench and a backup point guard who facilitates, then Beno can be a combo guard in spots. But I like Beno's game and I think he'd be just fine as the starting point guard.

 

[Bricklayer]

Do we need a "true" PG? It would be nice, but obviously not -- look at the teams still in the playoffs. In fact when you look at the teams still in the playoffs its obvious you don't even need a really good PG....IF you have enough talent elsewhere. Derek Fisher, Delonte West, Jameer Nelson, Rajon Rondo -- that's four of the remaining eight teams without guys who are even in the top half of PGs (the other four teams obviously all have Top 10 guys -- CP3, Parker, Chauncey, Deron, but even there only CP3 and Deron are true creaters, and they are both KJ/Hardaway/Baron type combo scoring PGs).

But that only works if you have the talent elsewhere. Fisher has Kobe, West has LeBron, Jameer has Dwight, Rondo has KG. Our failure to make a move into the top of the draft, or acquire a superstar by blockbuster trade means there is a lot more pressure on every position on our roster to be good by itself. We can't have roleplaying starters, because we don't have the high level stars to make them better. Kevin's game is all about getting points for Kevin. Ron almost makes guys worse.

 

[KCKingsCountry]

Bulls and Lakers didnt need a point guard bc of two guys named Jordan and Kobe.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Also because they had the triangle and good passing teaammates.

The only players we really know that are going to most likely be future starters are Hawes and Martin. Every other position is up in the air so it's hard to tell what type of skillset we need from the PG position. My preference is a guy who can facilitate and get around 8 apg, I'm old school in that way. However that's not always an easy thing to come by; so we really need a guy who can protect the ball, can create off the dribble, and make good decisions. I'd love to have a shot at Brandon Jennings in next year's draft, he's sometimes an overdribbler and needs to mature his decision making and shot selection, but he's got great handles, athleticism and vision/passing.

 

[CruzDude]

I think Beno is our guy, at least for the next year or two. Remember he came in without benefit of training camp and had not played first team in all his years with the Spurs. He meets every one of the criteria of several threads above. And the Chris Pauls, Deron Williams, and the like come along very infrequently and get grabbed by the top 5-6 draftors.

Beno is quick, can distribute (too bad the recievers don't move the ball around more), brings the ball up very well, can stay in front of most PG's (vs. Bibby) and really can be quick to the bucket. I think for the MLE or even less he may be the best option. Drafting a PG with one or at most two years of college ball and expecting them to contribute significantly is a pipe dream.

If the Kings end up with Russell Westbrook, here is the draft bio from the ESPN on him:

Positives: Long, athletic combo guard. Slasher who can get to and finish at the rim. Explosive leaper. Sees the floor well. Has a solid jump shot. Tenacious defender. Very quick on both ends of the floor. Long arms and great anticipation make him a ball hawk on the defensive end. Excellent speed in the open court. Scouts say he has an excellent work ethic

Negatives: Still learning how to play point guard. Often plays off the ball with Darren Collison running the point. Ballhandling needs improvement. Can get out of control when he takes it to the basket. Has some range on his jump shot, but doesn't take a lot of 3s.

So he would be 2-3 years away from possible starting PG but could be a really good bench PG with his defense and quickness. In the interim, Beno is our guy. Then if Beno develops AND Russell develops, great for the Kings.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I think Beno is our guy, at least for the next year or two. Remember he came in without benefit of training camp and had not played first team in all his years with the Spurs. He meets every one of the criteria of several threads above. And the Chris Pauls, Deron Williams, and the like come along very infrequently and get grabbed by the top 5-6 draftors.

Beno is quick, can distribute (too bad the recievers don't move the ball around more), brings the ball up very well, can stay in front of most PG's (vs. Bibby) and really can be quick to the bucket. I think for the MLE or even less he may be the best option. Drafting a PG with one or at most two years of college ball and expecting them to contribute significantly is a pipe dream.

If the Kings end up with Russell Westbrook, here is the draft bio from the ESPN on him:

Positives: Long, athletic combo guard. Slasher who can get to and finish at the rim. Explosive leaper. Sees the floor well. Has a solid jump shot. Tenacious defender. Very quick on both ends of the floor. Long arms and great anticipation make him a ball hawk on the defensive end. Excellent speed in the open court. Scouts say he has an excellent work ethic

Negatives: Still learning how to play point guard. Often plays off the ball with Darren Collison running the point. Ballhandling needs improvement. Can get out of control when he takes it to the basket. Has some range on his jump shot, but doesn't take a lot of 3s.

So he would be 2-3 years away from possible starting PG but could be a really good bench PG with his defense and quickness. In the interim, Beno is our guy. Then if Beno develops AND Russell develops, great for the Kings.

Yeah, I'm in favor of that scenario. Even though Beno isn't the prototypical pass-first PG, his ability to drive and dish, as well as play decent defense, was night and day compared with Bibby this season. He may not be the perfect long-term guy, but as long as he's signed to a reasonable contract I see no reason not to retain him while we develop a guy like Westbrook.

 

[Kingzrool]

I am happy with Beno for now. I'd like to see what he does with the starting position all season.

 

[beb0p]

The Jordan Chicago Bulls didn't have one. The Shaq-Kobe Lakers didn't have one. And when you think about it, the King's team that nearly got to the final round didn't have one either. On top of that, we have a kid in Hawes who looks like at a minimum has as much basketball IQ and passing ability as either Vlade or Miller. He looks he is going to be a "creator" because he's going to make everyone around him better with his passing. So, do we have to have the "creator" point guard - the Chris Paul type - or can we do just fine with a bigger athletic guard who doesn't make turnovers, but also doesn't make as many assists because he's not the "creator" type?

Every championship team has a guard that can create something out of thin air with the shot-clock winding down. The Bulls had Jordan and the Lakers have Kobe to do that, but usually that's the PG's job. We absolutely need a creator PG because we don't have a SG that you can throw the ball to with less than 5 seconds on the clock and say, "Bail us out!"

Having two shoot-first guards in the backcourt is a disaster imo.

 

[bajaden]

Does anyone know the status of T.J. Ford in Toronto. I've heard rumors that they wanted to move him, but not sure how true the rumors were. I'm being intellectualy lazy here and trying not to do my own research. He and Artest make almost the same salary. He's been injury prone, and has four more years on his contract, so he would be a risk. Just curious.

 

[rhythmless]

I covet a guy like Chris Paul. Or a Tony Parker. They are ultra quick creating point guards. They are smaller, but their scoring and creating ability makes up for their size. But do you really need to have the "true" creating point guard on this team?

The Jordan Chicago Bulls didn't have one. The Shaq-Kobe Lakers didn't have one. And when you think about it, the King's team that nearly got to the final round didn't have one either.

Your question in the general pondering sense is vastly complicated and dependent on many things. Do we need a 7'0" bruising center? Do we need a 6'10" post up power forward? There is no magical formula you can make, and then proceed to fill with these things. Do you need one? Not in the absolute sense, but it helps. In addition, the type of players depends on players you build around, as well as the type of system that you desire.

The examples you give have superstars that compensated for their inefficiencies. In the Kings, we basically "switched" offensive duties between Christie and Bibby, with Bibby being shoot first, and Christie a passer/slasher. Just because you have examples of teams who have had multiple HOF first ballots succeeding without a true pg doesnt mean WE can. And don't speak of the Kings team as if it happens regularly. That assembly was one of the best teams to never win a championship, and was really a resurgence of that style. That cast consisted of above average passers in almost all positions, and they capitalized on that. The current kings do not have the luxury.

On top of that, we have a kid in Hawes who looks like at a minimum has as much basketball IQ and passing ability as either Vlade or Miller. He looks he is going to be a "creator" because he's going to make everyone around him better with his passing.

No. No. No. We do not have a kid who looks like a "minimum" of basketball iq as Vlade or Miller. We haven't even really gotten to see him that much, and you want to throw Hawes in with arguably the best passing center to ever play the game? I appreciate the enthusiasm, but theres a not so thin line between enthusiasm and outright lunacy, and you crossed it.

As far as making everyone around him better, again, you need personnel, and system that will do that. Miller was never lauded as a good passer until he came here. I'm guessing it was part tutelage under Vlade, but you have to remember the system we employed, that left with coachie and adelman. We do not have that system anymore, nor can we even run it with the people that we do have. And for those who keep talking about Miller being a mentor to Hawes, what evidence is there that Miller is as capable a mentor as Vlade (which he definitely is not) and that Hawes will learn what Miller learned from Vlade?

To sum up, how true of a pt guard do we need? I ask you, how much do you want to win? Barring an assembly like that of the Kings of old, or having a superstar HOF perennial all star, you definitely need a true pt guard.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

a PG is all we really need imo .. if we somehow got rose or bayless and kept our team and just added a defensive 4 we would be a up and coming playoff team in 2 years

 

[bajaden]

a PG is all we really need imo .. if we somehow got rose or bayless and kept our team and just added a defensive 4 we would be a up and coming playoff team in 2 years

Well, unless we win the lottery were not going to get either one of those guys. I personally still vote for a big guy in the draft and resigning Beno. Beno is an up grade from what Bibby had turned into, and would be better in the short term than anyone we could draft outside of Rose. Remember, that Beno is not that old and it sometimes takes a few years to develop at the pt position. He could just be coming into his best years. It also might be possible to pick up a pt like Chalmers in the second round as a backup, and who knows, possible future starter.

 

[bajaden]

Do we need a "true" PG? It would be nice, but obviously not -- look at the teams still in the playoffs. In fact when you look at the teams still in the playoffs its obvious you don't even need a really good PG....IF you have enough talent elsewhere. Derek Fisher, Delonte West, Jameer Nelson, Rajon Rondo -- that's four of the remaining eight teams without guys who are even in the top half of PGs (the other four teams obviously all have Top 10 guys -- CP3, Parker, Chauncey, Deron, but even there only CP3 and Deron are true creaters, and they are both KJ/Hardaway/Baron type combo scoring PGs).

But that only works if you have the talent elsewhere. Fisher has Kobe, West has LeBron, Jameer has Dwight, Rondo has KG. Our failure to make a move into the top of the draft, or acquire a superstar by blockbuster trade means there is a lot more pressure on every position on our roster to be good by itself. We can't have roleplaying starters, because we don't have the high level stars to make them better. Kevin's game is all about getting points for Kevin. Ron almost makes guys worse.

I'm curious just exactly what you mean by Kevin is all about getting points for Kevin. Do you mean he's a selfish player thats only interested in his own stats? Or do you mean he's basicly just a scorer and not capable of making those around him better. I don't want to put words in you mouth, so thats why I'm asking..

 

[bajaden]

An interesting article.


T.J. Ford or Jose Calderon? Eventually, the Raptors will find out the two can't co-exist, their well-intended plans to meet with all parties notwithstanding. Eventually, one will have to be moved. If you're a Raptors fan, you're hoping the team can parlay the depth at the point position into a serviceable piece, at best a rotation player and at the absolute worst someone who doesn't just spot up on the perimeter and heave jumpers. Toronto Sun

Who would you rather have? Ford or Calderon? And what would you give up?

 

[LPKingsFan]

Would rather have Calderon, but would imagine we'd be in a better position to land Ford. I've talked about something along the lines of Ford/#17 for Artest/Douby but not sure how that works considering Ron has until the end of June to exercise his opt out. He'd have to agree before then not to, I guess.

 

[Vlade4GM]

We have nothing the raps want, it would have to involve a third team.

 

[bajaden]

We have nothing the raps want, it would have to involve a third team.

Well, they were weak defensively and Artest would certainly help in that dept.. As would Salmons. Their also desperate to rid themselves of Ford. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet. If their interested in getting out from under Fords salary then Artest is the perfect fit for them. Of course, the problem is whether Artest is going to pick up his option.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm curious just exactly what you mean by Kevin is all about getting points for Kevin. Do you mean he's a selfish player thats only interested in his own stats? Or do you mean he's basicly just a scorer and not capable of making those around him better. I don't want to put words in you mouth, so thats why I'm asking..

I purposely did not use the term "selfish" because its not entirely accurate. If you are talking pure stats, sure: by any statistical standard a guard who averages 23ppg and 2apg looks like a ballhog. But Kevin is a scorer -- it is what he does. Why he is in the league. And how he can help you. He does not really make his teammates better (occasionally, but so does everyone), does not transcend his role the way the great Kobe/TMac/LeBron type players do, but that's different form being selfish. Its only selfish to the degree that the role is self-defined and self-satisfied -- in other words its only selfish if Kevin thinks that "well I am getting my points, so I shouldn't have to do anything else." In Kevin's case he is a player who's game is about his own scoring. Not about creating for others. Not about running the offense. Not about making anybody else any better -- in fact he thrives precisely when everybody else sacrifices for him (by setting picks, driving and kicking etc.). Melo is a bit better in that regard (he can work the post and hit guys popping open occasionally), but cut from the same general cloth (and I think closer to actually selfish). Neither guy has shown the game, or personality for that matter, of a guy who makes things easier for less tlanted teammates.

This is a very similar phenomenon (and numbers) to those that Peja used to have. And it was a similar case for him: not "selfish": per se, but...not in his game to take responsibility for the success of his teammates. And to get back on point, if your stars don't do that, that's when you need a designated passer as a point guard to make up for the one dimensionality of the scorers.

 

[bajaden]

I purposely did not use the term "selfish" because its not entirely accurate. If you are talking pure stats, sure: by any statistical standard a guard who averages 23ppg and 2apg looks like a ballhog. But Kevin is a scorer -- it is what he does. Why he is in the league. And how he can help you. He does not really make his teammates better (occasionally, but so does everyone), does not transcend his role the way the great Kobe/TMac/LeBron type players do, but that's different form being selfish. Its only selfish to the degree that the role is self-defined and self-satisfied -- in other words its only selfish if Kevin thinks that "well I am getting my points, so I shouldn't have to do anything else." In Kevin's case he is a player who's game is about his own scoring. Not about creating for others. Not about running the offense. Not about making anybody else any better -- in fact he thrives precisely when everybody else sacrifices for him (by setting picks, driving and kicking etc.). Melo is a bit better in that regard (he can work the post and hit guys popping open occasionally), but cut from the same general cloth (and I think closer to actually selfish). Neither guy has shown the game, or personality for that matter, of a guy who makes things easier for less tlanted teammates.

This is a very similar phenomenon (and numbers) to those that Peja used to have. And it was a similar case for him: not "selfish": per se, but...not in his game to take responsibility for the success of his teammates. And to get back on point, if your stars don't do that, that's when you need a designated passer as a point guard to make up for the one dimensionality of the scorers.

Thanks for the explanation. I don't really disagree with your analysis. Basically, your saying that Kevin is just a support player. A good support player, but at this point in time, thats all he is. I do beleive that Peja falls into that same catagory. Unfortunally for him, we, the media, or whoever wanted to make him more than that, and then criticized him for being who he was, a very good support player.
The irony of this, is that Kevin and Peja often get criticized for not aspiring to be more Kobe like, and Artest gets criticized for beleiving he's just as good as Kobe. We are a fickle lot..

 

[Vlade4GM]

Well, they were weak defensively and Artest would certainly help in that dept.. As would Salmons. Their also desperate to rid themselves of Ford. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet. If their interested in getting out from under Fords salary then Artest is the perfect fit for them. Of course, the problem is whether Artest is going to pick up his option.

Teams that are willing to put up with Artest's character issues are few and far between, I doubt Colangelo/raps are one of them. Also with Salmons, the dude has a pee poor attitude and the raps have had their fill of those types in the past and they haven't worked out.

 

[bajaden]

Teams that are willing to put up with Artest's character issues are few and far between, I doubt Colangelo/raps are one of them. Also with Salmons, the dude has a pee poor attitude and the raps have had their fill of those types in the past and they haven't worked out.

You could very well be right. I think your a little extreme where it comes to Salmons. As far as I know, he hasn't been a cancer in the locker room. Mostly the criticism comes from us because of his disparity of play depending on whether he starts or not. I honestly beleive he would like to play just as well off the bench as he does when he starts. I think its a subconcious mental thing with him and its probably just as troubling to him as it is to us. Either way this is all conjecture. Also, remember, there's a sucker born every minute, and their's always someone that wants what you throw away.

 

[FakeInjury]

I like the way Theus runs the point guard position. Player/coach anyone?

More reasonably solution would be to run the pg by committee, that way when someone wins the starting position, there is substance behind it, and other players cant argue because they had their chance to win the position. I believe this way....the cream will rise to the top or something like that

 

[RIP miyagi]

Of the teams that do not have a true point guard, they have a one or more superstar players that the game gets ran through. Kobe, Lebron, all the Celtic guys. Our best player, Kevin Martin, isn't very vocal, and i find it hard to see him run the offense. Artest likes to run it but all he does is try to take it to the basket a lot of the time against bigger times which doesn't always work out well for us. I think we need a true point guard until we see that kevin is good enough to take on the superstar role.

 

[Superman]

Thanks for the explanation. I don't really disagree with your analysis. Basically, your saying that Kevin is just a support player. A good support player, but at this point in time, thats all he is. I do beleive that Peja falls into that same catagory. Unfortunally for him, we, the media, or whoever wanted to make him more than that, and then criticized him for being who he was, a very good support player.
The irony of this, is that Kevin and Peja often get criticized for not aspiring to be more Kobe like, and Artest gets criticized for beleiving he's just as good as Kobe. We are a fickle lot..

He's a support player the same way that Carmelo Anthony is; it's not that he's not good enough to be the best scorer on the team, but that his game is not conducive to scoring (which is his primary role) and setting his teammates up. In Kevin's case, it's one or the other, and he's a much better scorer than creator, so score he does. Nothing wrong with that, but he's not one of the great all-around players in basketball, and we don't necessarily need him to be, as long as the team is comprised in a way where he gets his efficient touches (in places where he can attack) and the rest of the team gets involved.

And I don't think people expect him to be a Kobe/LeBron/T-Mac. We didn't expect that from Peja, either. And we don't expect it from Ron, even if he expects it from himself. There's nothing wrong with Martin's role, as long as he's consistently effective in it, which he struggled with down the stretch this past season, for various reasons.

I think the major knock on Peja was that he is bigger than the players that are most effective at taking him out of his game (Bowen, 6'5", Hassell, 6'5", Brevin Knight, 5'10"), and if he simply added another element to his attack, he wouldn't have had that problem. Also, he was a below average rebounder for his size, but that's a horse of a different color.

 

[Kingster]

I purposely did not use the term "selfish" because its not entirely accurate. If you are talking pure stats, sure: by any statistical standard a guard who averages 23ppg and 2apg looks like a ballhog. But Kevin is a scorer -- it is what he does. Why he is in the league. And how he can help you. He does not really make his teammates better (occasionally, but so does everyone), does not transcend his role the way the great Kobe/TMac/LeBron type players do, but that's different form being selfish. Its only selfish to the degree that the role is self-defined and self-satisfied -- in other words its only selfish if Kevin thinks that "well I am getting my points, so I shouldn't have to do anything else." In Kevin's case he is a player who's game is about his own scoring. Not about creating for others. Not about running the offense. Not about making anybody else any better -- in fact he thrives precisely when everybody else sacrifices for him (by setting picks, driving and kicking etc.). Melo is a bit better in that regard (he can work the post and hit guys popping open occasionally), but cut from the same general cloth (and I think closer to actually selfish). Neither guy has shown the game, or personality for that matter, of a guy who makes things easier for less tlanted teammates.

This is a very similar phenomenon (and numbers) to those that Peja used to have. And it was a similar case for him: not "selfish": per se, but...not in his game to take responsibility for the success of his teammates. And to get back on point, if your stars don't do that, that's when you need a designated passer as a point guard to make up for the one dimensionality of the scorers.

I don't agree. I saw Kevin create for others much more so than the previous year. Of course, when he made a great pass it often went for naught; either the guy couldn't finish down low, or someone like Salmons couldn't hit the open shot. His passing seems to be getting better and better, and unlike Peja, he doesn't have to put his head down and use every ounce of foot speed to create separation from players. He can actually go at about 2/3 speed, keep his head up and get past his defender, all the while looking for a player to pass to (or shoot). In fact, he's developing a nice change of pace that makes it easier to create opportunities for others. Some of his passes were outstanding last year (I really never have seen that in Peja). I think he has ton more upside in the creator and assist-man roles than Peja.

 

[Section 101]

2 things about Kmart. One we don't know if he has been asked to do what you are asking of him. The last game he played, he was the one bringing the ball up the court and running the offense. I don't know if it's something he cant do, but one thing I know is that if he wants it he will work at it in the off season. Second, he can't pass to himself. How many times did mikki drop a pass? People have to make the basket for you to get an assist. That goes for everyone on the team.

As for the true point guard, since the finals MVP was started in 1969 there have been 5 point guards that have won it. Dennis johnson was the first in 1979, then Magic in 80 82 and 87 (was he really a point guard? Not in the traditional sense referred to here), Isiah in 89, Billups in 04 and parker last year.

So I would say that having the true point guards is not as important as having great players on your team. Look at the point guards the past few years. JWill, Parker, Fisher, Avery johnson, Ron Harper (2 guard playing 1), Kenny Smith, BJ Armstrong. That's going back to 1991.

 

[bajaden]

2 things about Kmart. One we don't know if he has been asked to do what you are asking of him. The last game he played, he was the one bringing the ball up the court and running the offense. I don't know if it's something he cant do, but one thing I know is that if he wants it he will work at it in the off season. Second, he can't pass to himself. How many times did mikki drop a pass? People have to make the basket for you to get an assist. That goes for everyone on the team.

As for the true point guard, since the finals MVP was started in 1969 there have been 5 point guards that have won it. Dennis johnson was the first in 1979, then Magic in 80 82 and 87 (was he really a point guard? Not in the traditional sense referred to here), Isiah in 89, Billups in 04 and parker last year.

So I would say that having the true point guards is not as important as having great players on your team. Look at the point guards the past few years. JWill, Parker, Fisher, Avery johnson, Ron Harper (2 guard playing 1), Kenny Smith, BJ Armstrong. That's going back to 1991.

Well, I don't care how good a point guard you are, if you don't have good players around you, your not going to win squat. Even if you do have good players around you, you might not win the championship. Just ask John Stocton.
To win a championship, you need good players, and probably two of the good one's need to be great players. You need good chemistry, no injuries and a lot of luck. Now you can adjust those ingredients a little, but you need all of those things to win.