How to Finish Building Around our Big 3?
- Thread starter BosnianDiehard2.0
- Start date
DFS is prob near the top of my list as well. One concern with him is he has a player option after next year. Will he opt out at 13 mil? At his age it’s hard to know if he would be able to make that on the open market. The other concern is he may or may not start for us and if he does you have too many guards on the bench (Monk, Keon, Carter, New guy I’m too lazy to look up the spelling of).
One issue we have to consider is how much can we pay for the PF position, and how many minutes will the said player get. It's not my money, so I don't mind Vivek shelling out a pretty amount to get us a nice shiny PF, but the second issue needs to be addressed.
We upgraded our roster by getting DDR over Barnes, but added to an already imbalanced roster. If Keon continues to start at 2, Keegan will likely move to 4, and DDR will play 3. Not ideal, but with the current roster, I think that scenario works out the best.
If we get a new PF, Keegan can continue to play at 3, and DDR starts at 2. Means Keon is back to the bench, and Kevin is almost certainly traded. This is the most desirable solution, though Keon showed his value when he started and doesn't need the ball to be effective. Moreover, unless the new PF is a decent outside shooter, the starting unit will have very little shooting (only Keegan), and we have also traded away an excellent outside shooter in Kevin.
No easy solutions unfortunately.
We upgraded our roster by getting DDR over Barnes, but added to an already imbalanced roster. If Keon continues to start at 2, Keegan will likely move to 4, and DDR will play 3. Not ideal, but with the current roster, I think that scenario works out the best.
If we get a new PF, Keegan can continue to play at 3, and DDR starts at 2. Means Keon is back to the bench, and Kevin is almost certainly traded. This is the most desirable solution, though Keon showed his value when he started and doesn't need the ball to be effective. Moreover, unless the new PF is a decent outside shooter, the starting unit will have very little shooting (only Keegan), and we have also traded away an excellent outside shooter in Kevin.
No easy solutions unfortunately.
Thanks.
Given that Keegan is "bigger" than him (per ESPN, 6'8" vs 6'6"), I presume DDR would be asked to play more 3. Let's see what the coaching staff decides.
However, in such a scenario, getting a higher quality PF makes even less sense. Never against adding talent, but you don't want to lose valuable assets and pay good money to have a guy play backup minutes, and effectively move Lyles out of rotation (except as a backup C).
Given that Keegan is "bigger" than him (per ESPN, 6'8" vs 6'6"), I presume DDR would be asked to play more 3. Let's see what the coaching staff decides.
However, in such a scenario, getting a higher quality PF makes even less sense. Never against adding talent, but you don't want to lose valuable assets and pay good money to have a guy play backup minutes, and effectively move Lyles out of rotation (except as a backup C).
Watching Keegan at the Team USA scrimmage today, he was mostly paired up with Tatum, Bam and Lebron when his team was on defense. Having him play the 4 is not that radical of an idea in the modern NBA. He also checked Booker for a couple sequences so he's pretty versatile in how many positions he can match up with on the defensive side.
As presently constructed, I think the best starting 5 has Keon at the 2, DeMar at the 3, and Murray at the 4. I also think we still need a defensive minded 4/5 to bring in with the first rotation off the bench which would push Keegan back to the SF spot for some of his minutes. The starting lineup isn't that important though -- the top 9 players will be getting their minutes whether they start or come off the bench. The more interesting question is, what will be the 5 on the floor in crunch time? Coach Brown likes having Monk out there to close out games and that leaves us with a pretty small lineup of Fox / Monk / DeMar / Murray / Sabonis. We might see different "last 5 minute" looks depending on who is hot that game, which team has the lead, and who the other team's best scorers are.
That chemistry between Fox, Monk, and DeMar and how well they're able to delegate and share playmaking duties will be key in determining if this is a good team next year or an elite one.
As presently constructed, I think the best starting 5 has Keon at the 2, DeMar at the 3, and Murray at the 4. I also think we still need a defensive minded 4/5 to bring in with the first rotation off the bench which would push Keegan back to the SF spot for some of his minutes. The starting lineup isn't that important though -- the top 9 players will be getting their minutes whether they start or come off the bench. The more interesting question is, what will be the 5 on the floor in crunch time? Coach Brown likes having Monk out there to close out games and that leaves us with a pretty small lineup of Fox / Monk / DeMar / Murray / Sabonis. We might see different "last 5 minute" looks depending on who is hot that game, which team has the lead, and who the other team's best scorers are.
That chemistry between Fox, Monk, and DeMar and how well they're able to delegate and share playmaking duties will be key in determining if this is a good team next year or an elite one.
He's always been a 4 right? Coming out of school he was supposed to be a modern "big wing" at the 4 that maybe could step out and defend the perimeter. Shot was questioned if it could translate.
And hes just developed as this perimeter defensive stud and elite shooter. I'm not worried at all about him at the 4; that's where he was "supposed" to be.
And hes just developed as this perimeter defensive stud and elite shooter. I'm not worried at all about him at the 4; that's where he was "supposed" to be.
A big need on this team is a defensive wing or PF who can space the floor. Going to bring up a fan favorite, what about Tari Eason in exchange for Huerter+Lyles, while also bringing in the Hawks to nab Larry Nance Jr?
Kings receive:
The Rockets get more shooting around Sengun with both Huerter and Lyles being able to play off of Sengun extremely well. The Rockets have a lot of wings on the team and will need to make tough choices when it comes to their future. Eason is the odd-man out with Smith Jr., Whitmore, and Thompson all under their rookie contracts. AJ Griffin was also added to the mix.
The Hawks are giving up Larry Nance Jr. for a salary dump in Tate while receiving a 2026 pick swap and a 2nd round pick. Allowing the Kings' 2025 1st round pick to finally convey will make room for more trade flexibility down the line. The pick swap would be a huge incentive, but I think it's necessary in order for the Hawks to agree to convey the pick.
You'd be going into next season with a rotation of:
Fox/Keon/McLaughlin
DeRozan/Monk
Keegan/Green
Eason/Nance Jr
Sabonis/Len
Lots of different rotation possibilities with these players. Keon can flex the 1-2. Monk can flex the 1-2. DeRozan can flex 2-4ish. Keegan can flex 2-4. Eason can flex 3-4. Nance Jr can be a tiny ball 5.
Kings receive:
- Tari Eason
- Jeff Green
- Larry Nance Jr
- Kevin Huerter
- Trey Lyles
- Jae'Sean Tate
- Allow the Hawks to convey the 2025 1st round pick
- Kings 2026 1st round pick swap (top 8 protected) (not sure if pick swap protections are possible)
- Rockets 2026 2nd round pick via Miami
The Rockets get more shooting around Sengun with both Huerter and Lyles being able to play off of Sengun extremely well. The Rockets have a lot of wings on the team and will need to make tough choices when it comes to their future. Eason is the odd-man out with Smith Jr., Whitmore, and Thompson all under their rookie contracts. AJ Griffin was also added to the mix.
The Hawks are giving up Larry Nance Jr. for a salary dump in Tate while receiving a 2026 pick swap and a 2nd round pick. Allowing the Kings' 2025 1st round pick to finally convey will make room for more trade flexibility down the line. The pick swap would be a huge incentive, but I think it's necessary in order for the Hawks to agree to convey the pick.
You'd be going into next season with a rotation of:
Fox/Keon/McLaughlin
DeRozan/Monk
Keegan/Green
Eason/Nance Jr
Sabonis/Len
Lots of different rotation possibilities with these players. Keon can flex the 1-2. Monk can flex the 1-2. DeRozan can flex 2-4ish. Keegan can flex 2-4. Eason can flex 3-4. Nance Jr can be a tiny ball 5.
What about go big with this trade?
KINGS: John Collins ($26.6 M / 1+1 P.O.) + Walker Kessler ($2.9 M / 1+1 T.O.)
JAZZ: Kevin Huerter ($16.8 M / 2) + Trey Lyles ($8 M / 1) + Colby Jones ($2.1 M / 2+1 T.O.) + 2028 1st SAC + 2031 1st worst of SAC/SA
I'd still start with our actual first unit (Fox - Keon - DDR - Keeg - Domas) but it would improve our 2nd one with Carter/McLaughlin - Monk - McDaniels - Collins - Kessler.
Maybe we only play with a 9 players rotation without McDaniels to open the SF and PF minutes to 3 heavy minutes players as DeRozan, Murray and Collins.
It also open one roster spot for Mason Jones and let us sign Boogie Ellis with our 3rd 2-way.
PG: Fox 34, McLaughlin 8, Monk 6
SG: Ellis 26, Monk 22
SF: DeRozan 34, Murray 14
PF: Murray 18, Collins 26, Sabonis 4
C: Sabonis 30, Kessler 18
KINGS: John Collins ($26.6 M / 1+1 P.O.) + Walker Kessler ($2.9 M / 1+1 T.O.)
JAZZ: Kevin Huerter ($16.8 M / 2) + Trey Lyles ($8 M / 1) + Colby Jones ($2.1 M / 2+1 T.O.) + 2028 1st SAC + 2031 1st worst of SAC/SA
I'd still start with our actual first unit (Fox - Keon - DDR - Keeg - Domas) but it would improve our 2nd one with Carter/McLaughlin - Monk - McDaniels - Collins - Kessler.
Maybe we only play with a 9 players rotation without McDaniels to open the SF and PF minutes to 3 heavy minutes players as DeRozan, Murray and Collins.
It also open one roster spot for Mason Jones and let us sign Boogie Ellis with our 3rd 2-way.
PG: Fox 34, McLaughlin 8, Monk 6
SG: Ellis 26, Monk 22
SF: DeRozan 34, Murray 14
PF: Murray 18, Collins 26, Sabonis 4
C: Sabonis 30, Kessler 18
Eh if you add a guy like Finney-Smith and start….
Fox
DeRozan
Murray
DFS
Sabonis
…you just have Murray and Finney-Smith take the two best offensive players 2-4 and whoever is left, DeRozan takes defensively. If that player is a catch & shoot SG, I’m not overly worried about DeRozan’s ability to defend that type of player. The defensive versatility of Murray and DFS makes it work.
Fox
DeRozan
Murray
DFS
Sabonis
…you just have Murray and Finney-Smith take the two best offensive players 2-4 and whoever is left, DeRozan takes defensively. If that player is a catch & shoot SG, I’m not overly worried about DeRozan’s ability to defend that type of player. The defensive versatility of Murray and DFS makes it work.
The debate can be had on who would start if DFS is added but I was more focusing on DeRozan playing the 2.
He can definitely play the 2 on offense and a lineup of Fox, DeRozan, and Sabonis has plenty of ballhandling and passing so it really comes down to how it would work defensively. Murray showed that he can swing down and guard SGs so if we’re playing a team that has good offensive talents at the 2 & 3, we can have Murray and DFS take this assignments and put DeRozan on the 4. Or if the teams offensive talents are at the 3 & 4, I’m not overly concerned having DeRozan defend an offensively limited 2.
He can definitely play the 2 on offense and a lineup of Fox, DeRozan, and Sabonis has plenty of ballhandling and passing so it really comes down to how it would work defensively. Murray showed that he can swing down and guard SGs so if we’re playing a team that has good offensive talents at the 2 & 3, we can have Murray and DFS take this assignments and put DeRozan on the 4. Or if the teams offensive talents are at the 3 & 4, I’m not overly concerned having DeRozan defend an offensively limited 2.
I don’t see any reason for DeRozan to play the 2 … if anything I expect more 3 guard lineups than 3 forward lineups. Plenty of minutes at forward spots for DeRozan, Murray, Lyles and another forward if they sign one.
There are very few “offensive limited” 2’s in this league and even if DeRozan does guard this hypothetical player who is the other teams 5th option, he prob can’t stay in front of him since he’s smaller so now you have the other teams worst player causing a defensive breakdown and kicking to other players … bad recipe. They have to have DeRozan guard the weaker forward … example Lu Dort instead of a faster guy like Caruso
There are very few “offensive limited” 2’s in this league and even if DeRozan does guard this hypothetical player who is the other teams 5th option, he prob can’t stay in front of him since he’s smaller so now you have the other teams worst player causing a defensive breakdown and kicking to other players … bad recipe. They have to have DeRozan guard the weaker forward … example Lu Dort instead of a faster guy like Caruso
Speaking of BKN, in my latest installment of "This Center is way undervalued and is really freaking good and we should go get him before other teams figure it out"
-Day'Ron Sharpe-
15.1 MPG
6.8 PPG
6.4 RPG
1.4 APG
0.7 BPG
0.4 SPG
59.6% TS
19.7% USG
23.1 % TRB (!)
14.0% Ast (!!)
.418 FTr
On court: 922 minutes
ORtg- 116.3
DRtg- 111.6
Net: +4.7
Off court: 3042 minutes
ORtg- 112.8
DRtg- 118.1
Net: -5.3
Total Net: +10.0
Nets just played Claxton 100 mil, so I think it's fair to say they're going to prioritize him over Sharpe. Sharpe is just a menace inside; he gobbles rebounds for a living and is extremely physical. He puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the rim. Super talented in the PnR and while isn't a crazy lob threat, he's a guy you can spam PnR's over and over with and he'll finish.
His passing leap this past season is what has me really intrigued. He always had a good feel, but a 14% Ast rate for a "backup" big is eye-opening.
If we do end up working with BKN, Sharpe is someone I want coming back with Cam or DFS and have him fill in at the back-up 5 spot. He's damn good, he's just 22 and we'd have his RFA rights after this season.
-Day'Ron Sharpe-
15.1 MPG
6.8 PPG
6.4 RPG
1.4 APG
0.7 BPG
0.4 SPG
59.6% TS
19.7% USG
23.1 % TRB (!)
14.0% Ast (!!)
.418 FTr
On court: 922 minutes
ORtg- 116.3
DRtg- 111.6
Net: +4.7
Off court: 3042 minutes
ORtg- 112.8
DRtg- 118.1
Net: -5.3
Total Net: +10.0
Nets just played Claxton 100 mil, so I think it's fair to say they're going to prioritize him over Sharpe. Sharpe is just a menace inside; he gobbles rebounds for a living and is extremely physical. He puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the rim. Super talented in the PnR and while isn't a crazy lob threat, he's a guy you can spam PnR's over and over with and he'll finish.
His passing leap this past season is what has me really intrigued. He always had a good feel, but a 14% Ast rate for a "backup" big is eye-opening.
If we do end up working with BKN, Sharpe is someone I want coming back with Cam or DFS and have him fill in at the back-up 5 spot. He's damn good, he's just 22 and we'd have his RFA rights after this season.
This is right to me. If you trade Huerter for a bigger wing, that wing is likely slotting into a 20-24 minute role off the bench. Those are the minutes we have available in the 2-deep, and honestly that is about the quality of player our assets will attain.
Fox/McLaughlin/Carter Jones (TW)
Ellis/Monk/Jones
DDR/DFS/McDaniels Crawford (TW)
Murray/Lyles/??? Jones (TW)
Sabonis/Len/???
That seems pretty balanced in terms of offense, defense, and usage in starting lineup and bench. Add some legit size on vet minimum with roster spot #14 (Reed, Achiuwa, Bassey), promote the best two way guy to roster #15, sign Boogie Ellis at #18.
Fox/McLaughlin/Carter Jones (TW)
Ellis/Monk/Jones
DDR/DFS/McDaniels Crawford (TW)
Murray/Lyles/??? Jones (TW)
Sabonis/Len/???
That seems pretty balanced in terms of offense, defense, and usage in starting lineup and bench. Add some legit size on vet minimum with roster spot #14 (Reed, Achiuwa, Bassey), promote the best two way guy to roster #15, sign Boogie Ellis at #18.
I think Collins has negative value because of his contract right now, Jazz doesn't need to clear salaries yet but I don't think that he has a huge price specially if they want to tank next season as it seems. And I'm not against adding Kessler, Domas played 82 games last year and 79 the year before, so we don't have the feel that we need a replacement but if he for any reason has to be out for a while next season we only have Len to replace him at the moment. And Len for 12 minutes per game is ok, but he can't be playing 30+ I think. If is true that the Jazz are good with trading him for only a 1st round pick as it's said I think it's an oportunity to add both players and solidify our core. They could be our PJ Washington and Daniel Gafford, not stars adquisitions but valuable depth pieces to the roster. In the trade that I proposed we send them 2 firsts, but one of them is the one we have just traded the swap rights to the Spurs in the DeRozan trade, and that Spurs pick in the Wemby prime would be difficult that it won't become a 25th-32th pick by then. The other one, the 2028 1st, we could try to put a top10 protection or something similar. Top10 2028 and top5 2029 for example.
Kessler is only 23 years old at the beginning of the season and he is a big body to throw in games when is required and a top5 rim protector in the league. If we have a playoff run and we have to face teams with huge bigs as Gobert, Lively, Hartenstein, Edey... we can use a guy like him to play 20 min and not be killed while Domas has to rest.
Collins is an ok player, but nothing especial and that makes his 26 M contract a little negative value one in my opinion. It should be around 15-18 M to be fair. But he can be serviciable. I would start with DeRozan and Keegan but make a 3 man rotation with Collins for the 2 forward positions. He can be our interior Monk version, a bench player with a significative role who still would have important minutes (25-28 per game) and shots despite not being a starter.
The good thing with Collins is that he has 2 years left signed, when he finish his deal is when we should pay Fox, Keegan, Keon and also Kessler if we made this deal so he fit well also with our timeline.
Kessler is only 23 years old at the beginning of the season and he is a big body to throw in games when is required and a top5 rim protector in the league. If we have a playoff run and we have to face teams with huge bigs as Gobert, Lively, Hartenstein, Edey... we can use a guy like him to play 20 min and not be killed while Domas has to rest.
Collins is an ok player, but nothing especial and that makes his 26 M contract a little negative value one in my opinion. It should be around 15-18 M to be fair. But he can be serviciable. I would start with DeRozan and Keegan but make a 3 man rotation with Collins for the 2 forward positions. He can be our interior Monk version, a bench player with a significative role who still would have important minutes (25-28 per game) and shots despite not being a starter.
The good thing with Collins is that he has 2 years left signed, when he finish his deal is when we should pay Fox, Keegan, Keon and also Kessler if we made this deal so he fit well also with our timeline.
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I’m really curious what Monte does if anything with the bench. As it stands the first four off the bench are probably Monk, KVon, Len and Lyles with McLaughlin getting Davion type minutes. To me that isn’t enough defense or size. Eventually Carter will be in that mix but whose minutes is he taking? You prob need to move Kevin and or Lyles for a defensive forward that shoots and eventually a more dynamic center to back up Domas and place Len as your third guy.
