how many bad calls Kings have got per game?
- Thread starter funsc
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Detroit is a team that holds and grabs and was hurt badly by the new rules on perimeter defense. Spurs are a postional defensive team:Kingsgurl said:
1. don't let your man penetrate middle by positioning yourself to force him baseline.
2. if he goes baseline perimeter defender play him not to get the outside shot but force him to penetrate.
3. interior defenders, who happen to be good shotblockers for the most part, rotate to contest the baseline driven player
4. strong interior defenders to limit opponent post players game (why Pop went after Rasho)
5. play the pick and role aggressively
If you don't understand the Spurs defense, it's fundamentals, your wasting our time.
Kingsgurl
Starter
Don't take that sanctimonious tone with me. I WATCHED the game, in person, from very close to the action. I SEE the things the spurs do. Don't try to deflect that with babble about positional defense and forcing him baseline. I saw, with my own eyes, all the holding with TWO hands on the cutter. YOU are wasting MY time trying to defend something that is pretty clear cut. The spurs rotations are good, never said they weren't, but it IS easier to rotate when you are allowed to slow your man down enough to keep up with him.
Okay
5. if a defender gets beaten and your closest rotate to help. If you don't trust the next guy on your team to rotate to your man and you don't pick up the player who's beaten his man expect to see the bench quickly.
6. Don't foul the jumpshooter. Foul the jumpshooter and you could well see the bench.
7. Don't reach. It gets fouls and it gets you off balance. If you reach too often expect to see the bench.
8. Don't gamble for steals and get beaten. Trust the system or see the bench.
5. if a defender gets beaten and your closest rotate to help. If you don't trust the next guy on your team to rotate to your man and you don't pick up the player who's beaten his man expect to see the bench quickly.
6. Don't foul the jumpshooter. Foul the jumpshooter and you could well see the bench.
7. Don't reach. It gets fouls and it gets you off balance. If you reach too often expect to see the bench.
8. Don't gamble for steals and get beaten. Trust the system or see the bench.
Kingsgurl
Starter
Again, I have no problem with the basics of defense, which are all you are extolling. I DO have an issue with the FACT the spurs grab and hold, impeding the progress of cutters.
My point is this. If the Kings played defense the way the spurs do, and I am NOT talking about the rudimentary rotations and help, but rather the physicality and the stuff that is, in actuality, NOT legal, they would be called on it, to the point there wouldn't be many players left to finish the game. The spurs are not, which DOES give them an advantage in being able to execute the other, more rudimentary, aspects of defense.
Of course, I would not expect a spurs fan to agree on this matter. It gives you a clear cut advantage, why would you mind?
Team defense 101.
Again, pretty elementary, and not really addressing what we are talking about. For the record, I have seen them foul the jumpshooter
No need to reach if you are 'denying' your man the ball before he gets it by putting your hands all over him. Your already there.
My point is this. If the Kings played defense the way the spurs do, and I am NOT talking about the rudimentary rotations and help, but rather the physicality and the stuff that is, in actuality, NOT legal, they would be called on it, to the point there wouldn't be many players left to finish the game. The spurs are not, which DOES give them an advantage in being able to execute the other, more rudimentary, aspects of defense.
Of course, I would not expect a spurs fan to agree on this matter. It gives you a clear cut advantage, why would you mind?
KP
Starter
I think this is building into a nice little rivalry. I lived in San Anton for 2 years and my mother still does. They are as die-hard there as we are here,(something that's rare) and I can respect that. The guys on their team are also good guys(also rare) except T-Mass of course. All that being said I'm starting to hate them! (it's really a compliment)
Webber4tHREE
Bench
screw the nba refs anyone see that bulls and celtics game. how does a guy go 3-15 and has 20 points
shaka zulu
Bench
wowWebber4tHREE said:
Dave McNulla
Bench
i see bowen often, i don't see him grabbing or impeding. i see him stand between his man and the basket. that's not impeding, according to the rules. millers arm's were not straight up and still when he got called, so it's a foul. ginobili didn't grab miller's arm, but he did get shoved so miller got called again. of course i didn't realize that king players didn't flop.Ryle said:
if you only complain about calls you perceive as against your team, then you aren't for justice, just favoritism. and as soon as you think the problem is out there, that very thought is the problem. cuttino is a great talent, but he'll never meet his potential if he thinks the other players and officials are the problem.
shaka zulu
Bench
Bruce Bowen grabs holds and tugs the jersey of peja when the two meet.The previous arco arena game well the first spurs and kings matchup at arco he wasn't allowed to do this and this is why peja lit him up and whoever they put on him.We all thought that from that stand point that peja made an exorcism of the bruce bowen demons Which he di at that point because the officiating didn't allow Bruce bowen to jam peja off teh screens nor jamm and hold bump and congest his drive by over using the hand check.He was blown 2 quick whistles and his game was out of sync from there.Peja was allowed to be agressive in this game and Bruce Bowen grab hand checking defense was no factor.But what is funny They were talking about how Bruce bowen didn't play well and right after this game he start to light it up averaging 20 points in 3 or 4 games and he becomes player of the week.The spurs were pissed loosing against the kings that game Tim duncan was bottled up by WEBBER and WEBBER even said after the game that tim was going to say well I just missed some shots that I normally make.They didn't want to give the kings props.But then you have the last game at arco and the one at the sbc center where bruce bowen was given the liberty to grab hold and over hand check which is impeding the offensive players progress.When he is allowe to play this way of course peja will only get 8 points.It seemed like some type of pay back the way the game was called peja picks up 2 early quick fouls and the l;ast arco game bruce bowen did the same.Dave McNulla said:
Officiating was a Big reason in the Games and it is hard to say that bruce bowen plays perfect honest straight up D, by the suppose new rules of impeding the dribblers progres which he was allowed to do.The arco game makes me think what type of plan that is going on.Bruce bowen freshly off of the player of the week.Spurs come into arco he is allowed to grab peja's jersey pull peja's jersey hold him from making a cut,Impede his dribble drive by over using the form arm and hand check.Peja get's 2 quick 1 st quarter fouls and then 3 before half time.
W
Wedman
Guest
You're still obsessing about game 6, 2002? When will QueensFan learn that the refs don't lose games for you, they're not out to get just the Kings, there's no conspiracy. The team on the court wins or loses for you! When your team wins, do you blame the refs for not winning by more points? Free yourself from the myopia.KP said:
Ryle
Starter
Dave McNulla said:
I don't know if you actually read my post but I did say that the Kings have some games where they do get alot of calls.
With that said, the Spurs play this way every game and are never called for the foul. I watched the Spurs Kings debacle last Sunday and since it was a blowout I decided to focus my binocs on the Bowen/Peja matchup and it was pretty comical. Peja lines up and Bowen is indeed between Peja and the basket WITH HIS HAND ON HIS JERSEY. Every time Peja made a move Bowen would grab his jersey and it was never called.
Officiating in the NBA is horrible and it's just ridiculous that one team has a different set of rules then all the others(like the Lakers of the last 5-6 years)
Wedman said:
I don't like feeding trolls, but on a Kings board any Kings fans has a right to feel bad about any injustice we feel we suffered (right or wrong). I agree that the refs are not out there just to get us and that bad calls go either way, but some games when bad calls go against you alot you can't help but feel violated.
As for QF comments, all of us would rather be Queens Fans than fans of any other team, especially yours.
iheartBrad
All-Star
the game we lost to the Spurs earlier in the month...Spurs fans were complaining about not getting any calls and the calls that we got were bogus
::gasp:: imagine that Spurs fans complaining about the refs
::gasp:: imagine that Spurs fans complaining about the refs
iheartBrad
All-Star
oh yeah and i know Wedman was banned...i dunno if he/she was a spurs fan or not but people say how bitter we are towards Robert Horry cuz everytime we see him...that situation gets brought back up...but i feel we as kings fans talk about Robert Horry just as much as Spurs fans talk about Derek Fisher...you guys boo him everytime he rolls through San Antonio
Dave McNulla
Bench
some spurs fans, you meant to say. they were chicken-hearted spurs fans at that. there was nothing wrong with the officiating in that game. sure, all games have missed calls, but nobody can prove that one team ever got railed in a game without minute review of every call and non-call throughout the entire game by an impartial observer, which has never happened in basketball history.iheartBrad said:
too bad for wedman, he seemed to have so much to contribute
KP
Starter
Hmm... that post was so old I almost forgot I made it^^. But you guys are right the Kings benefit a lot of times from the officiating too, and while it doesn't bother me as much
, it still bothers me. I mean the refs are soooooooo inconsistant. If they would just be more consistant game to game, even on bad calls, I'd be way less pissed. Thats all.
Dave,
You'd be the first Spurs fan I know who would dare say Bowen doesn't grab or hold. All the other Spurs fans I talk to know Bowen is a dirty player and they wouldn't want him guarding a Manu or Parker if he ever got traded, because he might end up causing injury to them. Bowen grabs, holds and undercuts. .
You'd be the first Spurs fan I know who would dare say Bowen doesn't grab or hold. All the other Spurs fans I talk to know Bowen is a dirty player and they wouldn't want him guarding a Manu or Parker if he ever got traded, because he might end up causing injury to them. Bowen grabs, holds and undercuts. .
Dave McNulla
Bench
some people think plays defense=cheats, but it isn't so. i don't know who those spurs fans are, maybe they are the same ones that act like the spurs got jobbed when they lose. i'm not with those people and i don't respect them.
i respect bowen. did you respect doug christie because he was on your team or because he played defense? or maybe you didn't like him at all. but his marital bliss aside, he chose to keep in front of the guy he was covering. do those guys grab? i don't mean they never grab, but really, it's hard to hide stuff on the floor there. i sat courtside once and you can see everything that goes on. they don't get away with much.
yes, it's more likely that an offensive player gets hurt if someone tries to keep him from scoring, but that's the game. do you think i was mad at the kings when tim duncan missed the playoffs in 2000? no. why should i be? he got hurt in the game and the opponent happened to be the kings. but it's part of the game.
manu and parker get pounded all the time. they get back up and play. do you respect that more than ray? i do. do you respect that more than vince? i do.
i respect bowen. did you respect doug christie because he was on your team or because he played defense? or maybe you didn't like him at all. but his marital bliss aside, he chose to keep in front of the guy he was covering. do those guys grab? i don't mean they never grab, but really, it's hard to hide stuff on the floor there. i sat courtside once and you can see everything that goes on. they don't get away with much.
yes, it's more likely that an offensive player gets hurt if someone tries to keep him from scoring, but that's the game. do you think i was mad at the kings when tim duncan missed the playoffs in 2000? no. why should i be? he got hurt in the game and the opponent happened to be the kings. but it's part of the game.
manu and parker get pounded all the time. they get back up and play. do you respect that more than ray? i do. do you respect that more than vince? i do.
