how many bad calls Kings have got per game?

[Bricklayer]

No, they just threaten with money. Money is more valuable than life sometimes in America anyways. So many people profit. Just think of the special rules that were made for Jordan, you couldn't really guard the guy sometimes. Got within a foot of him and you got whistled for a foul. It was pretty obvious, but Jordan made money for EVERYBODY. Put Jordan on your magazine cover and it sells. Get the Bulls to come to town and you sell out. And you sell out of Bulls posters as well, even if they aren't the local team.

Really, it takes more faith and denial to think there is no influencing in the outcome of NBA games than it takes to see that there is.

Threaten with money? What money? If you are a fired or retired or flunkie or whatever you want, what POSSIBLE money could be larger than the book rights to being the guy who brought down the NBA?

I assume that its fairly obvious that the NBA could not sue someone for exposing its wrongdoing.

Bottomline, Stern is not an idiot. He's a lawyer in fact + has a number of others on his staff. They aren't going to go engage in criminal racketeering or fixing which would likely expose them to a RICO case brought by the federal government. And they certainly aren't going to be signing people to written contracts to perform illegal actions. Not even the dumb criminals are THAT dumb. Kind of looks bad when said contract lands on a judge's desk with your signature on it. Oops.

 

[ImaKingsFan]

I certainly do not believe it is an overt conspiracy. It does however seem to be a "frame of mind" . It seems the Kings seldom get any respect from the officials. It is most likely the everyone loves a "winner" mentality. Jordan is the prime example of that. When he was at the top of his game he pretty much had free rein on the court.

 

[shaka zulu]

It isn't a freaking conspiracy, but they DO call the game different for some teams, as far as what they are allowed to do on the defensive end. I don't see how you can watch, especially if you wathed the game sandwiched in between the Spurs games (the nets get NO respect from the refs defensively) and not see a difference.
What I want to know is how a team goes about gaining that 'respect' or reputation. If our guys started holding and grabbing and hacking, who would be left to finish the game after they fouled out? Don't they have to allow 3 or 4 guys on the copurt (assesing a tech instead of fouling them out?) How many games would you have to play like that before they stopped calling ALL of the fouls and 'let you play'?

they were suppose to call the game differently this season by calling the fouls from the top of the circle when the player has teh ball going to the basket.when the defense impedes the players progress,which was to create more movement offensively.But when it comes down to money and business anything is possble.

 

[VF21]

not to hop on the wagon or anything but people do trip when it comes to money.CAPITALISM means everything to people now adays and BLACKMAIL rules big business the mob run the gamble game.IT's a Big money so no rules apply when it boils down to the nitty gritty.IVE seen people do crazy thangs andf cover stuff for that almighty dollar.ANYTHING is possible when you mess with a person'd money

That's all.

Just

 

[shaka zulu]

Threaten with money? What money? If you are a fired or retired or flunkie or whatever you want, what POSSIBLE money could be larger than the book rights to being the guy who brought down the NBA?

I assume that its fairly obvious that the NBA could not sue someone for exposing its wrongdoing.

Bottomline, Stern is not an idiot. He's a lawyer in fact + has a number of others on his staff. They aren't going to go engage in criminal racketeering or fixing which would likely expose them to a RICO case brought by the federal government. And they certainly aren't going to be signing people to written contracts to perform illegal actions. Not even the dumb criminals are THAT dumb. Kind of looks bad when said contract lands on a judge's desk with your signature on it. Oops.

Good point but sports are probbaly controlled by institutions on teh axium of the limits neither of us can touch.not to be way out.But gambleing and vegas play a part in these things which MOB outfits control.legal but illegal outfits.

 

[uolj]

What a bizarre thread...

I agree with the point that it seems that the NBA officials tend to call relatively fewer fouls against teams with aggressive defensive reputations. Maybe those teams are very good at slapping and reaching and only getting the ball.

What was also annoying was that after a couple bad calls or questioned calls against the Kings, they'd give a make-up call right back that was just as questionable. In the end, it didn't seem to even out, but maybe that's because I'm a Kings fan.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The NBA needs to train its officials to call the game without ANY regard to outside circumstances. No thinking about star player vs. scrub, home team vs away team, too many calls going one way, the game getting too chippy, or any other thing that they currently pay attention to. If they do that, bad calls will still be made, but the appearance of bias or impropriety would be greatly reduced, and it would be a lot more fun for me to watch.

 

[albeitrue]

Good point but sports are probbaly controlled by institutions on teh axium of the limits neither of us can touch.not to be way out.But gambleing and vegas play a part in these things which MOB outfits control.legal but illegal outfits.

Hey, what happened to your accent? Why, just the other night I was thinking you could be Peja himself, with your "uptight" sports injury conspiracy.

 

[swisshh]

Bottomline, Stern is not an idiot.

Yes, Stern is not an idiot and that's why there wouldn't be any easily available evidence. He isn't going to pass around flyers. It is just something that is understood.

And don't think exposing the truth is great for people's career and lives. Let us not forget that Gary Webb, a man who exposed the CIA, recently just killed himself. The situation around that whole ordeal is very dark. If people are making money, they don't want the truth exposed and the ties that the people above them have can really mess with their lives. There is a local teacher who exposed a scandal in the California department of education and the ensuing backlash has not been kind to his life.

 

[funsc]

The situation around that whole ordeal is very dark. If people are making money, they don't want the truth exposed and the ties that the people above them have can really mess with their lives. There is a local teacher who exposed a scandal in the California department of education and the ensuing backlash has not been kind to his life.

sounds horrible.

how to heal the world?

 

[shaka zulu]

There is a conspiracy around everything especially when it comes to money.try and read committee of 300.

 

[SacTownKid]

I would agree. Where there is money there is lie and deceit.

 

[Bricklayer]

Sigh.

Sorry to disappoint guys. Live here. See it everyday. Not nearly as sexy as in the movies. Lots of cheats and scoundrels of various sorts. But few grand conspiracies.

And I'll tell you why: because the forces balance out. It might be in Stern's interest to slant something. I repeat MIGHT because there are plenty of argumets against that too. And the evidence does not bakc it up. Slanting it toward San Antonio. Yeah right. Even smaller market than us. Generally boring team over the years which has drawn terrible TV ratings. But in any case, it is also in Stern's interest to not risk his legacy, and crime is risk. To be caught would destroy the league. And it is also in the fired ref's interest to pen a million dollar book deal. It is a US Attorney's interest to make a case, and a career off of Stern. It is in a rival, or lieutenant etc.'s interest to get Stern canned. It is in the Maloofs and other billionaire owners interest to see their own team treated well -- the "league" isn't some magical entity, it "rules" by suffrage of the owners. Unless you believe that all of the owners are signing off on their own teams getting screwed too. There are lots and LOTS of conflicting interests, and they all more or less balance out. Some people try to get away with things, most do not. Caution wins out 99% of the time.

It is always easy to cry "conspiracy!" from the relative cheap seats, much harder when you are closer. Those people put on their pants the same way you do. Their motivations are not much different. They have more to gain than you do from robbing the cash register, but also far more to lose. Caution wins out more often than not. And when it does not its almost never in some incredibly highly visible public enterprise for all the world to see. And almost never involving some obscene number of co-conspirators any one of whom could destroy you and bring down your entire empire.

 

[shaka zulu]

There is an axium behind all these things especially when BIG capital play is at stake when it effects a social platform that governs the minds of men and women on a colossal not minute scale.It's kind of like an unspkoken agenda who's voice is never Broken and it's loose lips never sink ships.There are no rules when it comes to this type of monetary platform there are no morals there is no fair structure when dealing with this Brand of capitalism.You can bring the federal government the police the law in it all you want,But these institutions are in cooperation with this order.It's like telling the world aliens exist, imagine what kind of hysteria that would cause around the nation.It could potentionally bring about a major collapse of our moral spiritual foundations and much disorder.This goes the same for a big mouth singing against a billion dollar enterprise in the Business of SPORTS which is an economic empire that has stayed the test of time on major developmental level for over a hundred years now in this nation.It is just not Boxing which we all should know has major axium influence but basketball as well and any other major sporting events that deals with large monies.There are bets around the world going for these sporting events not just sports merchandise and other retail .But large wagers

So a ref singing would not be in his or her lively cards, playing with money on a scale this large.we have to remember this is legal manipulation and the courts or anyone else will have to abide there are NO RULES i REPEAT NO RULES.Imagine the ref in all the many boxing fights that were fixed and you yourself KNOW were fixed. fights with jack johnson,muhammed ali etc, singing for a book deal for 1 million dollars,what could this do to the integrity and the legitmacy of the PARTICULAR SPORT. That one little million dollars could tarnish the sport of your choices IMAGE.THERE is too much money involved here. There is more than 1 million dollars at stake there is billions of dollars at stake and a cultural past time to preserve,that by any means necessary will not be exposed.That ref judge or whoever it may be tampering with a macro economic empire spanning across the globe trickling into numerous capital schemes, it wouldn't be worth his or her wild to come up off of this score .There is a structure in place before the industrial revolution before the tech evolution all the way back to ROME and CEASER that is in place and will always be and our short arms can't reach it's presence.

There is a 2% that own and dictate the other 98% and there are layers and layers and layers of camouflage that you will never figure out.No rules no balance and no morals are it's motto.Especially when dealing with Big
economics.


It gets deeper as far as the theories.But you have some wierd things in the NBA, Bob delaney ex FBI agent.larry obrien worked with kennedy as a special assitant.condi rice wants to be NFL commissioner George w bush ex part owner of the Texas rangers.politics and macroeconomic money go hand in hand,you cannot seperate the two esecially with gambeling and other extracurricualr economic endevors.There may not be a conspiracy behind the recent kings spurs Game or with the spurs in general.But politics the axium and big CAPITAL work side by side.

 

[PejaFanatic]

This thread is very deep all of a sudden..... still enjoyable to read though.

 

[Bricklayer]

oh my goodness.

 

[swisshh]

You will have a hard time saying business ethics are good right now Bricklayer, in light of current events. I have been close to one of the companies that promotes with the Kings and their social structure was very political and very hush-hush.

Sports and fairness? Owners dictate things? Explain the world of MLB as that is certainly not about fairness to all teams/owners. I still see Steve Schott kissing up to Bud Selig though.

"New steroid rules preserve the integrity of the game. A great move by the Comissioner." - inexact quote of Schott.

What integrity? Every new giant contract hurts the integrity of the game. But it's not about the game, its about the business. For example, our own Maloofs. The Kings as a team have fallen off in the past two years, but I don't really think thats hurting their product. They are still hugely popular here in Sacramento, so why would the Maloofs risk the money of paying for luxury tax in order to build a real contender? The Maloofs have a product here, they have a nice leash on the media and as such have a vested interest in the league. The only exception is Mark Cuban, who shoots off his mouth with no regard to decorum or backlash. He's a bit of a nut–eccentric, self-absorbed–but you won't ever hear him say something like "consumate professionalism". If you hear someone say "professionalism" or "consumate professional" then you know they're deep in it.


And sorry, I tend to cause a ruckus whenever I post here.

 

[slugking50]

C-o-n-spiracy Thoeries... How fun...... NOT!


They are a waste of enerrgy. I use to years ago talk about them all the time till 2001. Thats whn i started to realize I was wrong... That it wasnt some big conspiracy against the Kings. I feel much better now. I didnt have to spend hours trying to rationalize every nutty theory I had.

 

[funsc]

This thread is very deep all of a sudden..... still enjoyable to read though.

I can't agree with you more.

 

[Brewer16]

I certainly do not believe it is an overt conspiracy. It does however seem to be a "frame of mind" . It seems the Kings seldom get any respect from the officials. It is most likely the everyone loves a "winner" mentality. Jordan is the prime example of that. When he was at the top of his game he pretty much had free rein on the court.

Well said. I think all this conspiracy stuff is crap, but Ive noticed refs calling games different for different teams/players. Thats just the way it is. Nothing we can do about it.

 

[iheartBrad]

there is a TROLL-A-LURKIN

at spursreport.com they have a thread devoted to kings players whining to the refs...its mentioned that kings fans do the same..."it starts with the players and then trickles down to the fans" and they actually have a link to this thread and a link to the Spurs = New Lakers thread

we are giving them something to talk about

as for the topic at hand...we did get some bad calls last night...the two that pissed me off the most was the "interference" call on Matt...which replays showed he didn't touch...another that sticks out in the mind is when Brad was called for an offensive foul on Manu after he was clearing some space...ill have to hand it to Ginobili...after watching VD for years....i will see Manu is quite the actor...even some Spurs fans say how annoying it looks when Manu flops horribly and gets the call....BUT when you are in that kinda of environment you gotta just play through them...i know easier said than done...but thats the only way you are gonna get your share of calls....

another thing that really got to me is that the spurs fans said that even Rick Adeleman complains a lot....heh...HELLO! You guys got Gregg Popovich on your sideline give me a freakin break...i never thought Adeleman was much of a whiner...i mean he gets up and puts his hands out on those "are you kinding me how could you not call that" kinda plays...but thats pretty much it...he doesn't get a crap load of Techs

 

[Twix]

at spursreport.com they have a thread devoted to kings players whining to the refs...its mentioned that kings fans do the same..."it starts with the players and then trickles down to the fans" and they actually have a link to this thread and a link to the Spurs = New Lakers thread

Dang, we're popular (the forum). Of course Spurs fans have nothing to whine about, they got most calls their way. What's the point of whinning?

I do agree, the refs were bad last night. My brothers and I were watching the game together. My brother hardly complains about the refs unless it's a very bad call and last night, he sure was complaining.

 

[Brewer16]

another thing that really got to me is that the spurs fans said that even Rick Adeleman complains a lot....heh...HELLO! You guys got Gregg Popovich on your sideline give me a freakin break...i never thought Adeleman was much of a whiner...i mean he gets up and puts his hands out on those "are you kinding me how could you not call that" kinda plays...but thats pretty much it...he doesn't get a crap load of Techs

Apparently, Spurs fans havent seen the picture..

That is not "complaining", thats just his usually "what in the HELL are you thinking!?" face.

Now, this is complaining..

 

[Twix]

^Hahaha!! @Brewer. Gotta love Rick's reaction!

 

[vladetomiller]

^Good Gawd.^


This is my theory: No one remembers the bad calls after a win.

Perfect, Also add to that no one remembers the calls that go in favour of our team, whether its a win or a loss.

 

[iheartBrad]

that Rick pic brought a smile to my face thanks Brewer

 

[acisking]

I know Sacramento is better than a lot of cities for TV and Radio market size, but maybe you should look at the business ties that other cities have that Sacramento doesn't. Lack of luxury boxes, lack of major local businesses and a lack of outside-the-area draw. A big east coast city can draw in the entire east coast, but Sacramento in the Finals is lucky if it drawns in the rest of it's state as viewers.

For example, Portland, OR has a bigger size (2-3 Million) than Sacramento or Orlando, but Orlando has a bigger draw than either of those cities and teams. You got major attractions, you got Florida, so you have glamour and you have connections to big businesses like Disney. Plus you might draw the rest of Florida and you certainly get more east coast viewers. Do you think advertisers care that Portland has a larger population than Orlando? Or that Sacramento has a larger population than Orlando? If you do, then maybe I should hand you my tin foil hat.

Sure thats all great - but San Antonio has a smaller market than any of those city's. If refs favor the Spurs it certainly is for their reputation - not because the NBA is rigged. Thats just total bs.

 

[swisshh]

Yes, SA is a smaller market, but they are Texas and the south. More so though, they aren't the same product anymore. Manu and Parker give them allure and it's hard to get through a Spurs game without hearing how "new and exciting" the Spurs are. "They aren't the old Spurs." It's true, but its still a sales pitch.

And I already said it's no conspiracy theory. I've tried to make it plain that it's just how business is run in America and the NBA is more a business than a sport.

 

[vladetomiller]

It is definitely a business and that i agree. About those people talking about how difficult it would be to conspire a thing like this and not get caught -

There are no direct orders sent from the league, they get pointers before each game. For instance a pointer about "Look for webbers offensive fouls with his non shooting hand" could mean a lot to those refs. They start calling those fouls and webb now looses confidence in his jump hook cos they are calling the offensive foul.
Or say a pointer about "Look for the defenders body checking tony parker" means that the defenders cant get near him, whereas on the other end Bowen can molest anyone.

For those refs who dont follow the pointers, which are totally legal by the way, there maybe job security in question. Also the pointers could be argued that they are just things that the league wants to correct, but why not correct that on both ends of the floor. I have seen duncan commit as many offensive fouls as webber, but not called ever.

Other than the job security issue for the refs, there could be some higher hand that could make certain things interesting in their life

http://www.canoe.ca/BasketballArchive/jul12_nba2.html

It will be very intersting to know the take of people who have watched basketball for a long time about these refs and their quality of work before and after the case. (Well i just started watching nba by that time and i dont know about the refs )

http://www.nbarefssuck.com/news.html is also interesting to read

 

[Dave McNulla]

i love seeing threads like this. after scanning the whole thing, i didn't see anyone mention a call that went the kings way that shouldn't have. not one.

which means it's in cuban's class. he only complains about bad officiating and blown calls that hurt his team, he never complains if the mavs get the benefit of a call or a generally poorly called game. it's not justice he's after, it's favoritism.

you have to ask yourselves, what percentage of the time do you think the team you wanted to win got the win because of the officials vs. the games that your team lost? not just basketball, but everything: football, baseball, everything. nobody in the world, including me, will ever think they have the advantage or that it's even based on that calculation. i just figure that i'm biased and maybe the kings got away with a travel but the spurs got away with a bad interference call or something else i didn't notice.

i hear all the stuff about the defensive teams getting away with things, but i don't see larry brown buying into that. it's not illegal to cover your man. it's not illegal to stand between someone and the basket. it's not illegal to run next to your man so they don't get the straight line to the basket. last i checked, it's easier to run without the ball. it's not illegal to put your hands up. it's not illegal to block shots. it is illegal to hit people's arms, but brad would foul out if they called that every time.

i hear all the stuff about small market teams getting shafted, but i don't see san antonio getting any bigger. i do see laker fan coming up with conspiracy theories about putting big market teams down, but it just doesn't make any sense. the longer someone tries to explain a conspiracy, the crazier they look.

dave
spurs fan

p.s. nice game vs. the rockets. that move by chris at the end of the game is definitely a memory for me.

 

[iheartBrad]

i hope you aren't comparing me to Mark Cuban ^

cuz i might kill myself