Hollinger 30-win prediction

#32
I just read his article. He has the Kings finishing last, behind the Suns. Some interesting tidbits:

1. He rates the new vet acquisitions as poor--saying they're exception level type of acquisitions.
2. Dude hates Barnes. Maybe not hate, but rates him as a $10M per year player (dude didn't say this specifically, but implied it with his hate).
3. Rates Buddy and Fox as backup level guards.
4. Thinks WCS was a playmaker. No mention of his shot blocking (edited?). Says WCS was the key to the Kings blistering pace, which masked the Kings half court offensive set inefficiency...

The piece is just bad on so many levels. Hope it's posted in the Kings locker room.
that's some high level drugs right there
 
#33
I wouldn't be shocked if we won only 30 games this year (despite what a lot of people think here). However, I don't agree with a lot of Hollinger's reasons for why he thinks we will only win 30 games.
There's a lot of reasons this team could regress, I guess you start with the fact that we capsized after the ASB. But I don't think that losing WCS and signing vets on team friendly deals is going to sink the 2019-2020 season. You can argue it may hurt us in 3-4 years but I think that's still a tough sell since Giles is not a 30+ minute per night guy right now.

You could throw everything at the coach but I think Walton for Joerger is a lateral move at worst. Joerger did a lot of nice things but it's evident after the break the team was lost and his rotations were whack.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#34
There's a lot of reasons this team could regress, I guess you start with the fact that we capsized after the ASB. But I don't think that losing WCS and signing vets on team friendly deals is going to sink the 2019-2020 season. You can argue it may hurt us in 3-4 years but I think that's still a tough sell since Giles is not a 30+ minute per night guy right now.

You could throw everything at the coach but I think Walton for Joerger is a lateral move at worst. Joerger did a lot of nice things but it's evident after the break the team was lost and his rotations were whack.
I can see the Kings winning under 40 if Fox regresses and Bagley's production stays around the same from his rookie season. Buddy and Bogs look like their ready for the season.
 
#35
I don't think 30 wins is completely out of range for us, but again, I don't think Hollinger's reason make much sense. The reasons above is what could cause a 30 win season. Personally, I have us winning ~36 games and missing the playoffs. God knows I hope I'm wrong and we make the playoffs. I'd love to be in our new arena for a playoff game.
I am a bit more optimistic, I expect around the same record as last year, maybe we accomplish winning record after so long time. We might follow Denver's path (finished 9th twice before breaking out last season) if owners and FO stay patient. There are a new coach and many new players. This year the core improves and the team learns to play under a new system. Next year Kings surprise everyone and grab one of the top 4 seeds in the west.
 
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#36
There's a lot of reasons this team could regress, I guess you start with the fact that we capsized after the ASB. But I don't think that losing WCS and signing vets on team friendly deals is going to sink the 2019-2020 season. You can argue it may hurt us in 3-4 years but I think that's still a tough sell since Giles is not a 30+ minute per night guy right now.

You could throw everything at the coach but I think Walton for Joerger is a lateral move at worst. Joerger did a lot of nice things but it's evident after the break the team was lost and his rotations were whack.
I think the personnel is better than last year as well, but you could have guys like Fox (shooting), Giles (injury), & Barnes (Dallas Barnes) which could hinder the growth of the team from a personnel standpoint. Would I bet on it happening? No, but it could happen.

But this is where people usually stop. They only consider the record last year and if our personnel got better. Even if the personnel ends up being better, our record last year was already better than what NetRtg would predict so there may just be no record improvement if we fall back in line with that as a predictor.

Then you have the West getting tougher.

And then, most importantly, you had a coaching change. You may say Joerger to Walton is a lateral move, and you may be right in the long run, but it doesn't change that fact that our players are having to learn a new system, and it will take time for it to become second nature. That tends to have a negative effect on a team.
 
#37
I am a bit more optimistic, I expect around the same record as last year, maybe we accomplish winning record after so long time. We might follow Denver's path (finished 9th twice before breaking out last season) if owners and FO stay patient. There are a new coach and many new players. This year the core improves and the team learns to play under a new system. Next year Kings surprise everyone and grab on of the top 4 seeds in the west.
Yeah, I'm a little more excited for the 2020-21 season than I am the 2019-20 season. I know everyone is excited about winning 39 games last year, but I think we need to be patient whenever there is a coaching change.

We're taking 1 step back to take 2 steps forward. People need to be patient during the "1 step back" phase, but this is KingsFans.com so I doubt that will happen :)
 
#38
I don't buy the theory that the West has gotten tougher. There are teams that have improved: LAC, LAL, UTAH. Several teams that have improved some (hard to quantify) or stayed the same: Sac, Dallas, Denver, Phoenix, Minnesota & SA. Some who have gotten slightly weaker: Portland & NO. Others who will have a bigger drop: Memphis, OKC & GS.

I know some will disagree with some of my assessments, but that is how I see things. And for those wondering about where I put GS, they lost a lot of talent from last season. I think they still have a very good chance a making the playoffs, but only if Curry stays healthy. If he misses 15-20 games (per his usual) they will be in a world of hurt.
 
#39
I don't buy the theory that the West has gotten tougher. There are teams that have improved: LAC, LAL, UTAH. Several teams that have improved some (hard to quantify) or stayed the same: Sac, Dallas, Denver, Phoenix, Minnesota & SA. Some who have gotten slightly weaker: Portland & NO. Others who will have a bigger drop: Memphis, OKC & GS.

I know some will disagree with some of my assessments, but that is how I see things. And for those wondering about where I put GS, they lost a lot of talent from last season. I think they still have a very good chance a making the playoffs, but only if Curry stays healthy. If he misses 15-20 games (per his usual) they will be in a world of hurt.
I think you can easily make a case that the following teams got better this year:

LAL (Davis)
LAC (Leonard/George)
UTA (Conley/Bogdanovic)
DAL (Porzingis)

2 of those 4 weren't in the playoffs last year. Now let's look at the other 6 teams that were in the playoffs last year:

GSW (don't see them missing the playoffs with Curry/Russell/Green and then it becomes Curry/Russell/Thompson/Green later in the year
DEN (don't see them missing the playoffs with essentially the same young team intact and the ultimate wild card, Porter, is healthy
POR (don't see them missing the playoffs with Lillard/McCollum/Simons/Bazemore/Hood/Hezonja/Collins/Whiteside/Gasol and then Nurkic will be back towards the end of the year
HOU (don't see them missing the playoffs with essentially the same team as last year with the exception of a Paul for Westbrook swap.
OKC (I see them dropping out of the playoffs after losing Westbrook/George)
SAS (They could miss the playoffs. Same team as last year but Murray is back now. They'll be in contention)

Then you have a few more wild card teams

MIN (They were 12-10 when Covington played. Could it be a sign of things to come?)
NOP (Could be a wild card for playoffs depending on how the youth looks this year. Holiday, Redick, Favor are solid. Ball, Alexander-Walker, Hart, Ingram, Hayes, & Zion are all wild cards)
MEM (They lost Conley but they won 33 games with him last year. They added Morant and Jackson is back healthy. Don't see them making the playoffs but they could upset some teams)
PHO (Does a solid PG bring them to the next level? They have a lot of potential with Booker, Oubre, Bridges, Saric, & Ayton. They're a wild card as well but I don't see them making the playoffs)

So you have teams like LAC, DEN, UTA, LAL, GSW, POR, & HOU who I think will pretty easily make the playoffs. It comes down to that 8th spot which will likely be a tossup between SAC, SAS, DAL, MIN, & NOP. That's a ton of competition.
 
#40
I think you can easily make a case that the following teams got better this year:

LAL (Davis)
LAC (Leonard/George)
UTA (Conley/Bogdanovic)
DAL (Porzingis)

2 of those 4 weren't in the playoffs last year. Now let's look at the other 6 teams that were in the playoffs last year:

GSW (don't see them missing the playoffs with Curry/Russell/Green and then it becomes Curry/Russell/Thompson/Green later in the year
DEN (don't see them missing the playoffs with essentially the same young team intact and the ultimate wild card, Porter, is healthy
POR (don't see them missing the playoffs with Lillard/McCollum/Simons/Bazemore/Hood/Hezonja/Collins/Whiteside/Gasol and then Nurkic will be back towards the end of the year
HOU (don't see them missing the playoffs with essentially the same team as last year with the exception of a Paul for Westbrook swap.
OKC (I see them dropping out of the playoffs after losing Westbrook/George)
SAS (They could miss the playoffs. Same team as last year but Murray is back now. They'll be in contention)

Then you have a few more wild card teams

MIN (They were 12-10 when Covington played. Could it be a sign of things to come?)
NOP (Could be a wild card for playoffs depending on how the youth looks this year. Holiday, Redick, Favor are solid. Ball, Alexander-Walker, Hart, Ingram, Hayes, & Zion are all wild cards)
MEM (They lost Conley but they won 33 games with him last year. They added Morant and Jackson is back healthy. Don't see them making the playoffs but they could upset some teams)
PHO (Does a solid PG bring them to the next level? They have a lot of potential with Booker, Oubre, Bridges, Saric, & Ayton. They're a wild card as well but I don't see them making the playoffs)

So you have teams like LAC, DEN, UTA, LAL, GSW, POR, & HOU who I think will pretty easily make the playoffs. It comes down to that 8th spot which will likely be a tossup between SAC, SAS, DAL, MIN, & NOP. That's a ton of competition.

Yeah, if anything, I don't think the Kings came close to adding in the way many teams in the west did. The Kings added great fit players, some of the others added legit stars. The balancing out for Sac will come through play style, another bit of a jump out of Fox and Buddy (which has a TON to do with play style) and a long stride from Bagley.
 
#41
Every year there are these "national media is so unfair to us" threads. Maybe the national media has some solid arguments on why they are so negative towards us? I mean, 13 years worth of garbage, why would anyone give us the benefit of the doubt?
Due to a copywright rules I have to summarize the article but the original link is in here:
https://theathletic.com/1278703/201...s-golden-state-warriors?source=shared-article

He said that Kings "mistook their first big step forward in a rebuild for the ending" and commited to a vet acquisition mode. He also said that we were much farther from the finish line that we realized.

-Completely true. We thought we were ready for a serious playoff push by just adding some vets like Ariza, Joseph, Dedmon. We were wrong and Hollinger was right.

He said that it was a mistake to trade for Barnes and another mistake to pay him as he was a great sf (85mil) when he actually is "league average 4".

-Again, trading for Barnes and paying him a huge salary was a mistake. Hollinger knew it before the season and we whined how unfair the national media is to us.


"He said we used a huge amount of cap for average backups (37mil/year). He said these are the type of guys you sign "late in the building process using exception money" and not early in the rebuild when you need to add core talent"

-This is 100% correct what he wrote. Ariza and Dedmon are out of here, 25mil of cap with nothing to show for it.


He complemented WCS for his rim running, playmaking (4.1 assist per 100) and his big role in transition offense that masked their horrible half court offense last year.

-WCS being a big part of the fast pace offense is true. WCS as a talent might be replaceble but he fit the extremely fast paced Kings better than well.


He said that Fox and Hield is a quality backourt but thats basically it. He said that Bagley really struggled with his shooting and defense last year.

-Again, spot on. Fox and Hield is a quality backourt, Bagley still had shooting and defensive difficulties this year.



He said our additions would drop Giles out of rotation which would be stupid since "the Kings should focus on players like him, not on random 30 year olds. Also said that Holmes was a decent player.

-Yeah, Giles got so lost on this rotation that we didnt even pick up his option. Last sentence is so correct: "but he's also 21; the Kings should focus on players like him, not on random 30-year olds.

He complemented JJ and ridiculed us for not having our own 1st round pick.


-JJ has shown some promise, sadly some washed up vets like Bazemore are playing before him atm. Also a tragedy that we didnt have our own 1st.

-His prediction:

Prediction: 30-52, 5th in Pacific, 14th in Western Conference

-As a prediction this was a quite fair assesment of the situation. Also with hindsight it looks to be quite correct. Still it generated posts like these and these are just couple of many others:


"This is the dankest pile of horsecrap reasoning I've ever smelled. His utter cowardice to acknowledge the Kings might be good this year, and will definitely be better, causes him to contort his mind into an absolutely ridiculous position. He came up with 30 wins and then tried to find a way to justify it. The opposite of insight"


"I still can't get through a paragraph of my thoughts on this without it turning into a sarcasm laden snarkfest. Hollinger truly is an idiot and his take is a steaming pile of turd."


Again, maybe there isnt any conspiracy against us by the national media. Maybe we've just done stupid decisions for the past 13 years as the results indicate?

Ps: I have no strong feelings about Hollinger as a gm but at least he could see these things before they happened. A gm candidate? Possibly but at least the podcast with him and Nate Duncan is very informative for us fans
 
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VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#44
MOD NOTE: No, some of you aren't seeing things. Gguod's original post was deleted because it posed copyright problems. Since that post was gone, the responses were also temporarily deleted. Our thanks to Gguod for understanding and rewriting his well-thought out post to remove the potential problems. Since his post is now within guidelines, we've restored it and the comments that had disappeared.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#45
Every year there are these "national media is so unfair to us" threads. Maybe the national media has some solid arguments on why they are so negative towards us? I mean, 13 years worth of garbage, why would anyone give us the benefit of the doubt?
Due to a copywright rules I have to summarize the article but the original link is in here:
https://theathletic.com/1278703/201...s-golden-state-warriors?source=shared-article

He said that Kings "mistook their first big step forward in a rebuild for the ending" and commited to a vet acquisition mode. He also said that we were much farther from the finish line that we realized.

-Completely true. We thought we were ready for a serious playoff push by just adding some vets like Ariza, Joseph, Dedmon. We were wrong and Hollinger was right.

He said that it was a mistake to trade for Barnes and another mistake to pay him as he was a great sf (85mil) when he actually is "league average 4".

-Again, trading for Barnes and paying him a huge salary was a mistake. Hollinger knew it before the season and we whined how unfair the national media is to us.


"He said we used a huge amount of cap for average backups (37mil/year). He said these are the type of guys you sign "late in the building process using exception money" and not early in the rebuild when you need to add core talent"

-This is 100% correct what he wrote. Ariza and Dedmon are out of here, 25mil of cap with nothing to show for it.


He complemented WCS for his rim running, playmaking (4.1 assist per 100) and his big role in transition offense that masked their horrible half court offense last year.

-WCS being a big part of the fast pace offense is true. WCS as a talent might be replaceble but he fit the extremely fast paced Kings better than well.


He said that Fox and Hield is a quality backourt but thats basically it. He said that Bagley really struggled with his shooting and defense last year.

-Again, spot on. Fox and Hield is a quality backourt, Bagley still had shooting and defensive difficulties this year.



He said our additions would drop Giles out of rotation which would be stupid since "the Kings should focus on players like him, not on random 30 year olds. Also said that Holmes was a decent player.

-Yeah, Giles got so lost on this rotation that we didnt even pick up his option. Last sentence is so correct: "but he's also 21; the Kings should focus on players like him, not on random 30-year olds.

He complemented JJ and ridiculed us for not having our own 1st round pick.


-JJ has shown some promise, sadly some washed up vets like Bazemore are playing before him atm. Also a tragedy that we didnt have our own 1st.

-His prediction:

Prediction: 30-52, 5th in Pacific, 14th in Western Conference

-As a prediction this was a quite fair assesment of the situation. Also with hindsight it looks to be quite correct. Still it generated posts like these and these are just couple of many others:


"This is the dankest pile of horsecrap reasoning I've ever smelled. His utter cowardice to acknowledge the Kings might be good this year, and will definitely be better, causes him to contort his mind into an absolutely ridiculous position. He came up with 30 wins and then tried to find a way to justify it. The opposite of insight"


"I still can't get through a paragraph of my thoughts on this without it turning into a sarcasm laden snarkfest. Hollinger truly is an idiot and his take is a steaming pile of turd."


Again, maybe there isnt any conspiracy against us by the national media. Maybe we've just done stupid decisions for the past 13 years as the results indicate?

Ps: I have no strong feelings about Hollinger as a gm but at least he could see these things before they happened. A gm candidate? Possibly but at least the podcast with him and Nate Duncan is very informative for us fans
I abhor and detest Hollinger and might well have been one of those pillorying him in regards to his article. Having said that, I have to admit that Gguod has brought up a number of valid points. I still think Hollinger is, in general, blatantly and profoundly anti-King, but as the old saying goes "even a broken watch is right twice a day."

Nice work, G.
 
#46
I abhor and detest Hollinger and might well have been one of those pillorying him in regards to his article. Having said that, I have to admit that Gguod has brought up a number of valid points. I still think Hollinger is, in general, blatantly and profoundly anti-King, but as the old saying goes "even a broken watch is right twice a day."

Nice work, G.
yeah except it appears the broken watch is Vlade
 
#50
Every year there are these "national media is so unfair to us" threads. Maybe the national media has some solid arguments on why they are so negative towards us? I mean, 13 years worth of garbage, why would anyone give us the benefit of the doubt?
Due to a copywright rules I have to summarize the article but the original link is in here:
https://theathletic.com/1278703/201...s-golden-state-warriors?source=shared-article

He said that Kings "mistook their first big step forward in a rebuild for the ending" and commited to a vet acquisition mode. He also said that we were much farther from the finish line that we realized.

-Completely true. We thought we were ready for a serious playoff push by just adding some vets like Ariza, Joseph, Dedmon. We were wrong and Hollinger was right.

He said that it was a mistake to trade for Barnes and another mistake to pay him as he was a great sf (85mil) when he actually is "league average 4".

-Again, trading for Barnes and paying him a huge salary was a mistake. Hollinger knew it before the season and we whined how unfair the national media is to us.


"He said we used a huge amount of cap for average backups (37mil/year). He said these are the type of guys you sign "late in the building process using exception money" and not early in the rebuild when you need to add core talent"

-This is 100% correct what he wrote. Ariza and Dedmon are out of here, 25mil of cap with nothing to show for it.


He complemented WCS for his rim running, playmaking (4.1 assist per 100) and his big role in transition offense that masked their horrible half court offense last year.

-WCS being a big part of the fast pace offense is true. WCS as a talent might be replaceble but he fit the extremely fast paced Kings better than well.


He said that Fox and Hield is a quality backourt but thats basically it. He said that Bagley really struggled with his shooting and defense last year.

-Again, spot on. Fox and Hield is a quality backourt, Bagley still had shooting and defensive difficulties this year.



He said our additions would drop Giles out of rotation which would be stupid since "the Kings should focus on players like him, not on random 30 year olds. Also said that Holmes was a decent player.

-Yeah, Giles got so lost on this rotation that we didnt even pick up his option. Last sentence is so correct: "but he's also 21; the Kings should focus on players like him, not on random 30-year olds.

He complemented JJ and ridiculed us for not having our own 1st round pick.


-JJ has shown some promise, sadly some washed up vets like Bazemore are playing before him atm. Also a tragedy that we didnt have our own 1st.

-His prediction:

Prediction: 30-52, 5th in Pacific, 14th in Western Conference

-As a prediction this was a quite fair assesment of the situation. Also with hindsight it looks to be quite correct. Still it generated posts like these and these are just couple of many others:


"This is the dankest pile of horsecrap reasoning I've ever smelled. His utter cowardice to acknowledge the Kings might be good this year, and will definitely be better, causes him to contort his mind into an absolutely ridiculous position. He came up with 30 wins and then tried to find a way to justify it. The opposite of insight"


"I still can't get through a paragraph of my thoughts on this without it turning into a sarcasm laden snarkfest. Hollinger truly is an idiot and his take is a steaming pile of turd."


Again, maybe there isnt any conspiracy against us by the national media. Maybe we've just done stupid decisions for the past 13 years as the results indicate?

Ps: I have no strong feelings about Hollinger as a gm but at least he could see these things before they happened. A gm candidate? Possibly but at least the podcast with him and Nate Duncan is very informative for us fans
Thanks for the summary. Hollinger might have been right on some points, but he obviously went with the worse case scenario. What he didn't predict and what has led to the King's current record is Bagley missing most of the season, Fox going down for several weeks, Bogie out for a couple of weeks, Holmes missing 15+ games. And the Kings not being able to finish about 7 or so games.

All that being said he still likely sold the Kings short since I think they will be able to win more than 10 of their final 31.
 
#51
Thanks for the summary. Hollinger might have been right on some points, but he obviously went with the worse case scenario. What he didn't predict and what has led to the King's current record is Bagley missing most of the season, Fox going down for several weeks, Bogie out for a couple of weeks, Holmes missing 15+ games. And the Kings not being able to finish about 7 or so games.

All that being said he still likely sold the Kings short since I think they will be able to win more than 10 of their final 31.
I really don't like how that injury excuse keeps getting used. We are less impacted by injuries than many teams in the league.
Also, so far Bagley has been a net negative on the court this season. Losing him for that many games may have been kinder to our record than having him play (and force-feeding him).

 
#52
I thought 30 wins originally was too low, but I think now it may only be a couple wins over, or maybe even dead-on. It was closer than I originally thought. I wondered on the vets but wasn't sure. I had some doubts on this season, but maybe not as strong as Hollinger. Unfortunately he was very close to the correct prediction.
 
#53
The injuries certainly played a key role. Our two biggest players missed significant chunks of the season. Bagley is completely MIA which lead to the guy we signed to play right beside him losing his job and being shipped in disappointing fashion. Maybe expecting 50 wins instead of hoping for .500 was way off for me. I mean I am completely dejected by this season, largely because we lost a year of development on our highest draft pick in 30 years and a few guys picked after him are tearing up the league. The fan base is in shambles and the team chemistry that was a high point last season is spoiled all over the floor now.

But hey, Hollinger can pat himself on the back for being right for all the wrong reasons, congrats to you dude. GFY
 
#54
Bagley has been out most of the season. So those of you passing judgement on him for THIS seasons performance are basing said judgement on personal opinion of a 20 year old. He may or may not turn into a franchise cornerstone, but he deserves a chance to actually play before such judgements IMO.

As far as Hollinger's article being correct on the number of wins and team direction, Good for him. He is right about some stuff.
Most of us Kings Fans thought the team would be competing for the Playoffs this season, we were wrong.

As for the off season FA signings lots of us also thought Dedmon would be a good center for the Kings, wrong again, he left his J in ATL. We also thought Mr Holmes would be a nice change of pace hustle guy off the bench. Wrong again, but in a good way:) Ariza and Cojo have played some good defense for the Kings. So IMO the Vet pickups are a plus overall.

The injuries alone are not the entire reason for all the losses this season. The timing of the injuries has hurt quite a bit. Bagley has been out just about the whole year. He never has had a chance to hit his stride. Fox missed a big chunk early and when he came back had a slow start. Bogi's injury came and the Kings went on a losing streak. Mr. Holmes being out has hurt the D.

So here is my list of excuses for the poor season:
1) The Kings have shot the ball poorly.
2) Slow start due to India trip.
3) Walton's new system (focus on defense) being slow to show results.
4) Dedmon left his J in ATL and lost his minutes to Mr Holmes who was killing it, before injury.
5) Poor timing on injuries to key players.

So who's fault is it that the Kings have a poor record?

Well Hollinger did jinx us:)
 
#55
I think if the Kings are going to improve to a high degree they have to trade for a difference maker like Petrie did with CWebb. Or offer crazy money to one as a Free Agent.

I prefer the big money offer route since it allows the Kings to keep their talent and add to it.

At least half of the Players on the All Star roster are not playing for the teams that drafted them.
 
#56
The injuries certainly played a key role. Our two biggest players missed significant chunks of the season. Bagley is completely MIA which lead to the guy we signed to play right beside him losing his job and being shipped in disappointing fashion. Maybe expecting 50 wins instead of hoping for .500 was way off for me. I mean I am completely dejected by this season, largely because we lost a year of development on our highest draft pick in 30 years and a few guys picked after him are tearing up the league. The fan base is in shambles and the team chemistry that was a high point last season is spoiled all over the floor now.

But hey, Hollinger can pat himself on the back for being right for all the wrong reasons, congrats to you dude. GFY
The lack of ball movement/any decent passing/shooting of Dedmon/Bagley would have made us the team potential drafting 1st. Dedmon lost his job cause he sucks and Bagley if it were merit based would be scrapping it out with Giles for minutes because Bjelly is a vastly better player. Bagley being injured had nothing to do with Dedmon not shooting well or being able to make a hand off passing without turning it over, also Bagley has not drawn a single double team this season and would not have freed up Dedmon for open shots which he bricked anyway.

The Kings need to give Hollinger the max GM deal to come clean this crap up.
 
#57
We have had three notable losing streaks. We could have overcome the first but the second was a bit of a killer. We might only win 30-35 games this season but let's see how they finish before we give Hollinger any kudos.
 
#58
The lack of ball movement/any decent passing/shooting of Dedmon/Bagley would have made us the team potential drafting 1st. Dedmon lost his job cause he sucks and Bagley if it were merit based would be scrapping it out with Giles for minutes because Bjelly is a vastly better player. Bagley being injured had nothing to do with Dedmon not shooting well or being able to make a hand off passing without turning it over, also Bagley has not drawn a single double team this season and would not have freed up Dedmon for open shots which he bricked anyway.

The Kings need to give Hollinger the max GM deal to come clean this crap up.
Hollinger has never shown any skill to GM a team. He is an analytics guy and created the PER stat.

Grizzlies GM's --> https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MEM/executives.html
 
#59
Every year there are these "national media is so unfair to us" threads. Maybe the national media has some solid arguments on why they are so negative towards us? I mean, 13 years worth of garbage, why would anyone give us the benefit of the doubt?
Due to a copywright rules I have to summarize the article but the original link is in here:
https://theathletic.com/1278703/201...s-golden-state-warriors?source=shared-article

He said that Kings "mistook their first big step forward in a rebuild for the ending" and commited to a vet acquisition mode. He also said that we were much farther from the finish line that we realized.

-Completely true. We thought we were ready for a serious playoff push by just adding some vets like Ariza, Joseph, Dedmon. We were wrong and Hollinger was right.

He said that it was a mistake to trade for Barnes and another mistake to pay him as he was a great sf (85mil) when he actually is "league average 4".

-Again, trading for Barnes and paying him a huge salary was a mistake. Hollinger knew it before the season and we whined how unfair the national media is to us.


"He said we used a huge amount of cap for average backups (37mil/year). He said these are the type of guys you sign "late in the building process using exception money" and not early in the rebuild when you need to add core talent"

-This is 100% correct what he wrote. Ariza and Dedmon are out of here, 25mil of cap with nothing to show for it.


He complemented WCS for his rim running, playmaking (4.1 assist per 100) and his big role in transition offense that masked their horrible half court offense last year.

-WCS being a big part of the fast pace offense is true. WCS as a talent might be replaceble but he fit the extremely fast paced Kings better than well.


He said that Fox and Hield is a quality backourt but thats basically it. He said that Bagley really struggled with his shooting and defense last year.

-Again, spot on. Fox and Hield is a quality backourt, Bagley still had shooting and defensive difficulties this year.



He said our additions would drop Giles out of rotation which would be stupid since "the Kings should focus on players like him, not on random 30 year olds. Also said that Holmes was a decent player.

-Yeah, Giles got so lost on this rotation that we didnt even pick up his option. Last sentence is so correct: "but he's also 21; the Kings should focus on players like him, not on random 30-year olds.

He complemented JJ and ridiculed us for not having our own 1st round pick.


-JJ has shown some promise, sadly some washed up vets like Bazemore are playing before him atm. Also a tragedy that we didnt have our own 1st.

-His prediction:

Prediction: 30-52, 5th in Pacific, 14th in Western Conference

-As a prediction this was a quite fair assesment of the situation. Also with hindsight it looks to be quite correct. Still it generated posts like these and these are just couple of many others:


"This is the dankest pile of horsecrap reasoning I've ever smelled. His utter cowardice to acknowledge the Kings might be good this year, and will definitely be better, causes him to contort his mind into an absolutely ridiculous position. He came up with 30 wins and then tried to find a way to justify it. The opposite of insight"


"I still can't get through a paragraph of my thoughts on this without it turning into a sarcasm laden snarkfest. Hollinger truly is an idiot and his take is a steaming pile of turd."


Again, maybe there isnt any conspiracy against us by the national media. Maybe we've just done stupid decisions for the past 13 years as the results indicate?

Ps: I have no strong feelings about Hollinger as a gm but at least he could see these things before they happened. A gm candidate? Possibly but at least the podcast with him and Nate Duncan is very informative for us fans
Would like to say that that was an amazing post. However, there are few minor things I will quibble about
  1. The fact that we haven't made the PO in 13 years is certainly something the ownership and management would feel pressure about, and dictate some decisions. It is easy for a detached observer like Hollinger to sit far away and make comments based solely on Basketball or cap space. Organizations have to think beyond, like selling hope (and tickets) to a fan base, staying (or in our case becoming) relevant to potential FAs, coaches, and player agents.
  2. These factors can sometimes overrule common BB sense.
  3. I think we all knew that Barnes will get overpaid. Do remember though that we had been complaining about the lack of a legitimate SF for ever. JJ may turn out to be solid player eventually, but that was our weakest spot for a long time, and we needed someone solid there.
A few other similar points can be made, but I do agree broadly with your analysis. The jury is still out on Bagley, but my patience at least is running a little thin, particularly with almost all the other top picks playing very very well. I don't want this to turn into a Luka discussion, but at the moment, missing out on him, and not picking Giles option seem to unforgivable errors on Vlade's part.
 
#60
I think the part that Hollinger really nailed is how the Kings got older and slower. The two trades have tried to unwind that, especially substituting Bazemore for Ariza. The Kings are a much faster team now in transition. Ariza was solid in stretches, but couldn’t provide the spark on offense n defense that Bazemore has.

Note to the FO: no more vets on their last legs. Ariza, ZBO, Vince, Caron...