SLAB
Hall of Famer
Vlade and co are getting ready to sign Demarcus Cousins back to Sacramento. And it starts with dumping Papa G to undo the "God help me" tweet from DMC when Papa G was drafted.
That brings me right back on board.
Hill To Cavaliers per Woj
- Thread starter Capt. Factorial
- Start date
That brings me right back on board.
George Hill was NEVER the player we thought he would be. Neither was Papa. Which is the better move? Keeping them around because you don't want to look like you made a mistake? Or acknowledge that they didn't work out and stop the bleeding?
That's not a rudderless ship, my friend. That's a ship whose captain isn't afraid to change course to adapt to current conditions.
sactowndog
All-Star
It's not Kayte, nor is it anyone else within the Kings organization. Double-K has been a member here since before the great crash of September 2004. His avatar doesn't reflect who he is any more than mine does.
Darn so much for my old man crush... lol
His tenure as a Kings fan is irrelevant. His argument is every bit as valid as yours. When we had Geoff, we got most of our talent through trades, not the draft. Mike Bibby - trade, Doug Christie - trade, Peja - draft, Chris Webber - trade, Vlade Divac - free agency, Bobby Jackson - trade.
King Baller
All-Star
Who was drafted in the first round after Papa and Mal would you have chosen? The fact is it was a weak draft. Vlade did well to get Bogie and Skal with the #8 pick. Bruno is a result of the Philly trade
Signed Belinelli with some of the cap room created. Belinelli traded for the pick used to select Mal. Mal traded for Bruno. If Bruno turns into a rotation player does it make the Philly trade good?
ParniValjak
All-Star
I think you might be right. Then they cut him a couple of days later I think and people say Kings FO is incompetent.
I have been a Kings fan since well before Kings were good.
I never said we should pin our hopes on getting a superstar talent in FA. What having cap room allows us to do is remain in the conversation with these players or at the very least use the cap space to facilitate a trade for assets but don't let that get in a way of a good rant.
Kings will have a good pick in this year's draft and should get a pretty good young players. What cap room allows is to go and sit down and maybe drop a max deal on Parker or Gordon or even Hood and see if their current teams would match it. Sure it doesn't guarantee that we get either of them but with not many teams having cap room it puts you in the conversation.
Last time I checked, a long time ago this franchise's fortunes changed when they traded for a troubled young star, drafted in mid lottery and signed a FA by the name of Vlade Divac. I am not saying it will happen again but unless you have the cap flexibility, you are not going to be able to be in the conversation for any trade that can get you a star from a team that want to dump their salary and rebuild nor will it allow you to even attempt to convince someone to sign with the Kings.
Kings are openly targeting season 2019-2020 to be playing the .500 ball and push for the play offs.
sactowndog
All-Star
Right and only Vlade was a free agent! Webber almost didn’t come and cried on his way here. Your post validates my point.
Please post other than Vlade any significant free agent in the prime of their career that signed here? The closest I can think of is Hill and we just gave him away for a bag of rocks.
sactowndog
All-Star
Fair enough. Then you realize Vlade is the only free agent I can think of us getting. Can you name any other significant free agent?
sactowndog
All-Star
Who was drafted in the first round after Papa and Mal would you have chosen? The fact is it was a weak draft. Vlade did well to get Bogie and Skal with the #8 pick. Bruno is a result of the Philly trade
Aren’t we cutting Bruno?
SLAB
Hall of Famer
It could also be argued it's a ship who's captain is either clueless and/or in way over his head.
----
Edited the name-call out. Doesn't change my point though. The Kings are toast as long as Vlade's playing GM.
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Not according to what Carmichael Dave tweeted this afternoon. See the Welcome to the Kings Bruno thread.
I prefer to deal with people who don't resort to name calling. Have a good night.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Brad Miller was a FA signing but it required a sign and trade because Kings lacked the cap room and Indy were not willing to lose him for nothing.
Cap space is not only valuable in FA but in providing you trade flexibility. Let's not forget that so many deals were done where the team decides to rebuild and trade away their star for expiring contracts and young players. Hell we did it with Boogie and IIRC Golden State got Baron Davis for two fifths of sweet **** all!
sactowndog
All-Star
Just read through it. We shall see how he progresses.
sactowndog
All-Star
I agree in terms of trade flexibility but I’m not sure this trade helps us much.
The trade flexibility is more when you can match contracts. The Hill contract was excellent for Trade flexibility next year because it had the team option for the third year. We just gave that away for Shumpert. I don’t see it as a win but as a loss. Hill could be traded for an expensive contract and a young player. Shumpert can’t. To me in terms of trade flexibility this trade was a loser.
ParniValjak
All-Star
I think you are missing the point. If you have cap room and expiring deals, it means that a team can trade you a player on a bigger salary than what you are trading out. You only need to match the salary if you don't have enough cap space to absorb the contract.
I see Hill thing differently. He is overpaid as is but if you keep him around for the rest of the season, I think he loses value. He would not get as many minutes because as soon as Mason is back, he and Fox will get a lot of minutes here. He would be coming off a career worst season. Plus he has a year left at $19 m plus a $1m buyout for the following year.
Now with Shumpert you have $11m on your books and $8m in cap space. If another team wants to trade to us a $20m per season type player next season, we can accomodate the trade by trading them Shumpert who has an expiring contract. It save the team a few million in that season plus they get a player off the books.
I think Hills contract was pretty problematic to be honest. It was the largest contract traded at the deadline. Its pretty obvious from the deals that got done that most teams want to reduce their payroll. Two summers of inflated contracts will do that to a league.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Considering last season’s trade deadline was the one where Vlade dumped our franchise player for a rehabbing Reke, Buddy, and a pick of middling value while said franchise player was literally playing in the all-star game, I’m not really sure why this would be the trade deadline that broke the proverbial camel’s back.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
I feel like brick did the right thing leaving this team.. Maybe we're all fools to keep cheering for the kings.
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sactowndog
All-Star
I get your point. The 1M buyout was minimal and the team option also had value. You play Hill start of next year to showcase him and then you have options to Trade. I think Vivak panicked yet again. His motto is fail fast but it should be fail continuously because he is impatient.
I’m not done being a Kings fan by any means but I doubt this team is going anywhere with the repeated bad moves. I can tell you the Celts are rejoicing at our moves.
sactowndog
All-Star
I disagree. George would have been a valuable trade piece next year with the team option and 1M buy out. That was why you signed that contract in the first place. Give the kids two years to develop and then see what you can get.
While I didn’t love the heavy vet make them earn it play this year it was absolutely the right play next year when we don’t have our draft pick. Hill was a steadying influence in our back court and a good teacher. That’s why we signed him and those reasons didn’t change in 6 months.
Blob was coarse but accurate.
but he's only 20! why can't he be the next Gasol 2.0. he's chubby like him.
I'm honestly out as a Kings fan if we don't get a top 5 pick. There's no reason why this team should be winning games late in the season on the backs of vets who have no future as a King.
upinsmoke
All-Star
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
At the very least, there will be a rookie running the PG spot in crunch time. Unless Joerger goes with GT at the point in crunch time.
Kosta
Z-Bo
Carter
Shump
GT
Oh god, I hope Joerger doesn't read this.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
Not going anywhere. Im in to deep now. If we ever did win I guess after all the painful years it would be that much sweeter.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
The Lakers have been the hottest team in the league and acquired IT. Either this could propel them to .500 basketball or completely blow up in their faces. The Lakers' big goal has always been to make noise this offseason anyways so I don't see them lapping us in the loss column.
The Mavs acquired McBuckets and unloaded Devin Harris (their big goal has always been the offseason too). McBuckets isn't amazing by any means but he's better than most of the Mavericks roster by virtue of not being old or a D-Leaguer. This move could actually help put a little separation between the Mavs and us in the race to the bottom of the western conference. (Thanks Mr. Cuban!)
The Bulls are young and competitive and have been playing fairly good basketball of late (bad/good loss to us aside). There's not much they could do to really up the tankage seeing as most of their roster is young and inexperienced as is.
Brooklyn is a team with nothing to lose by winning and playing hard so I could see them climbing the standings as the teams around them start letting loose the hounds of tank post-ASG.
The Knicks are pretty bad now that Zinger is down but we've got a bit of a headstart on them in the race.
Memphis inexplicably held on to Reke and Gasol and all of their good vets and, bad stretch of basketball that got their coach fired aside, aren't as bad at basketball as some of the other teams out there.
Phoenix is close to us in the standings but seem to have gotten closer to plugging the hole in their roster at point guard with Elfrid Payton, who isn't very good but still young and has fully functioning legs (my thoughts to Isaiah Canaan). Of course, when it comes to tanking, the Suns are seasoned pros, so who knows?
Our big competition in the 2018 Winter Tanklympics is honestly going to remain the Orlando Magic, who dumped Elfrid Payton for as close to nothing as you could get for an NBA player, and the Atlanta Hawks, who are very bad but decided to trade for Sheldon Mac, which could make them a little better, and they seem to be eager to get rid of Marco Belinelli, which, as we know, is not very conducive to losing games.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
This was my point earlier in the thread.
This franchise just continues to make moves that make little to no sense. The Cavs made trades that made them better. The Lakers did the same. Hell, they managed to clear cap space AND land a 1st round pick. But the Kings? They landed an inconsequential 2nd round pick 2 seasons from now and had to trade a coveted vet and cut their 2016 1st round lottery pick for that privilege. Way to go.
I also gotta say that where there’s smoke, there was fire. All these George Hill trade rumors we read the past few weeks were accurate. They may have tweaked the eventual deal some, but the end result looks no better than what was rumored early on. Those deals made no sense and neither does this one.
I still don’t see the motivation to wanna do make these trades. A good GM wouldn’t have considered them, let alone made them.
NewArena
All-Star
Lol no one is giving up a first round pick for anyone these days outside of the all star/franchise player type, and certainly not for George Hill.
I’m excited to see how Harry Giles looks next season. Probably the main reason we let papa go
NewArena
All-Star
Lebron and PG aren’t going to LA, IMO as they still wouldn’t even win the conferenceI think this pretty much sums it up and to why the deal was done. Its about creating cap flexibility. We now have three "semi-expiring" deals and an expiring deal in Carter.
So Carter's $8million come off the book, Temple and Kosta are likely to opt out so that's another ~$17M so you have coming off the books plus some $8m saving on Hill's contract compared to Shumpert. Essentially, the Kings will have a MAX room in FA this summer. While Kings are unlikely to get a superstar with their money, they can get themselves a pretty darn good player.
Keeping Hills for longer would have made him a dead asset for us. He was not going to get any more playing time or getting featured more so by summer, you have a player due $20m and coming off a career worst year.
We got out of that deal on time. It would have been more preferable to dump the contract for expirings but that was always going to be a pretty difficult proposition.
I do find it somewhat funny that CLE helped LAL clear the cap space for LeBron and PG13 in te summer
kingsfan101
Starter
West is going to be tough for sure, but East is throwing challenges too. Maybe Cavs turn it around now, but they don't have assets to upgrade their roster.
If Hayward comes back healthy next year, Celts could be much improved from even their current version. No guarantees that Cavs win East either.
As for Lakers, I hope they don't get either, but if they do, they might get some vet FAs willing to play there on the cheap in the pursuit of a ring. One reason I feel that Lakers (unfortunately) were big winners today.
Of course, if they don't land marquee guys, and are forced to splurge on Mozgov level players to meet the salary floor, the balance in the universe will be restored
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