Heat @ Kings Game Thread 12/6 - 6 p.m. PST

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I just can't figure out our FT shooting woes. Spencer especially, because he's usually quite consistent, more so than donte and omri.
 
Heat executed better than we did. Plain and simple. Even if we shoot a respectable FT% we still lose. They broke our zone so many times that I started to believe that them scoring on a possession was a foregone conclusion.

I suppose I should be happy I was completely infuriated, at least I'm engaged by our team this year.

BTW, tonight's attendance: 13,186. Too bad I was pretty much wrong, wrong, wrong throughout the rest of the original post.
 
VF21 said:
And you're a much better judge of the players than the man who has done so much already to make these kids into a team? Yeah, right...

You don't know what was going on. Since Westphal has been pretty consistent in how he handles his rotations, I'm thinking there was a reason he did what he did.

You can disagree with someone else's opinion without resorting to the insults, BTW. It hasn't flow before and it's not gonna fly now.
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No, I am not a better judge of the players than Westphal. If I had said that then I really would have been the buffoon.

But, I do think he made a mistake here. Of course, I have the massive benefit of retrospect.

Tyreke had already rested the final 30 seconds of the 3rd, the quarter break, and the first 4 minutes of 4th. We had the lead down to 6 and the momentum on our side going into the early 4th quarter TV time out. Instead of putting Tyreke in there, the coach opted to give him about 5 minutes more of real-time rest (around 2 minutes of game) in which we lost the momentum entirely and had allowed the lead to surge back to 11.

Everyone makes mistakes. It was an obvious mistake to rest our best player who is barely 20 years old and got plenty of rest the night before when the momentum is hanging in such a balance. The cost of that insignificant amount of rest on the outcome of the game was just too great.

I do apologize for the insult (which I directed at no one in particular). But my insults are nearly as unfortunate as the highlighting pen you always seem to apply to them. Just take them off when I am such a bad little poster and leave the passive aggression at the door.
 
Regarding Omri's FT shooting, btw, I'm wondering if the coaching staff has been trying to improve his form so that he's had to sort of re-learn the process.

Because he was never a great FT shooter on this side of the ocean, but he could be relied on to shoot above 70% except for a few rare cases.
 
DeaconBlues said:
Regarding Omri's FT shooting, btw, I'm wondering if the coaching staff has been trying to improve his form so that he's had to sort of re-learn the process.

Because he was never a great FT shooter on this side of the ocean, but he could be relied on to shoot above 70% except for a few rare cases.
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That's possible -- one step back so you can make two steps forward. But it is worth noting that when Westphal has talked about the problems he has never mentioned any special work, and indeed sounded like he thought Omri was solid from the line in his pre-Kings career.
 
Bricklayer said:
That's possible -- one step back so you can make two steps forward. But it is worth noting that when Westphal has talked about the problems he has never mentioned any special work, and indeed sounded like he thought Omri was solid from the line in his pre-Kings career.
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Well, he's obviously struggling with his form (someone already mentioned the hitches,) so I figure that comment was largely for his benefit, letting him know they have his back, so to speak. Whether they've been working with him on it or not, a bit of a confidence boost would not go amiss either way.
 
97-91 with about 5:30 to play and 5 seconds on the shot clock, a white 7 footer not named Dirk is taking a m#$%rf&*king corner three.Game over.Bye bye.Cya next time. Is there an excuse/explanation for this kind of behaviour? I wanna puke when Bustnani (the raptors soft italian noodle drafted 1st overall in 2006)who is a better shooter than Spencer will ever be in this and the next lifetime, take, make or miss a three in such a situation. Spencer are you for real?You just cost your team the ball game. Beno and Omri are wide open, you, all seven feet of you are taking a CORNER three? not a top of the key one, not with no time left to pass, just like that letting one fly?
 
casspion said:
97-91 with about 5:30 to play and 5 seconds on the shot clock, a white 7 footer not named Dirk is taking a m#$%rf&*king corner three.Game over.Bye bye.Cya next time. Is there an excuse/explanation for this kind of behaviour? I wanna puke when Bustnani (the raptors soft italian noodle drafted 1st overall in 2006)who is a better shooter than Spencer will ever be in this and the next lifetime, take, make or miss a three in such a situation. Spencer are you for real?You just cost your team the ball game. Beno and Omri are wide open, you, all seven feet of you are taking a CORNER three? not a top of the key one, not with no time left to pass, just like that letting one fly?
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Meh, he's playing within his game. I don't mind him, or Bargs (or Lampe for that matter) doing that, so long as they play defence and battle for boards, which none of them do. They could form a "7' softie" club.

Don't worry, my shift will be over in half an hour and I'll stop flooding the thread.
 
Rockmeister said:
Kings missed 12 freaking free throws tonight and 9 freaking free throws last night. Pathetic.
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Indeed. you'd think being a pro would, oh i don't know, maybe inspire you to shoot free throws at a high percentage. Free throws are easy, I can tell you that without hesitation. With enough practice and solid form anyone can be solid from thee stripe. It will never cease to amaze me to see pro athletes brick free throws. I can understand pressure situations, but you are at home and there plenty of time left...
 
casspion said:
97-91 with about 5:30 to play and 5 seconds on the shot clock, a white 7 footer not named Dirk is taking a m#$%rf&*king corner three.Game over.Bye bye.Cya next time. Is there an excuse/explanation for this kind of behaviour? I wanna puke when Bustnani (the raptors soft italian noodle drafted 1st overall in 2006)who is a better shooter than Spencer will ever be in this and the next lifetime, take, make or miss a three in such a situation. Spencer are you for real?You just cost your team the ball game. Beno and Omri are wide open, you, all seven feet of you are taking a CORNER three? not a top of the key one, not with no time left to pass, just like that letting one fly?
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New guy here...

I've been lurking this board in the last couple of days, and I see a lot of Spencer Hawes bashing. I'm not going to get into all this "he's young and will improve and be more consistent" because there has been enough of that. I'll just point out one thing: For a team that intends to build it's offense around a guy like Tyreke, who's main offensive weapon is his drive, a big men who can shoot 3's is one of the biggest assets it can have. A big man who is glued to the post might get more points in the paint and more rebounds but he will also crowd the paint, making drives for Tyreke and Beno (and Martin when he comes back) much more risky. Big men that are good enough shooters to draw their men outside open up lanes for the penetrating guards. That corner 3 was a shot that Spencer could make and he was right to take it. Had he made that shot the lead would've been cut to 3 and everyone would've reacted differently. I am positive that coach Westphal works with him on outside shooting and encourages him to take open shots because that's the kind of offense he is going for.

This team will inevitably have more bad games like the one tonight, but I know one thing for sure - PW knows exactly what he's doing, and any player who does anything consistently, even if it looks weird to most fans, is doing it because PW instructed him to do so, or else he would be seeing the games from the bench.
 
Asaf said:
New guy here...

I've been lurking this board in the last couple of days, and I see a lot of Spencer Hawes bashing. I'm not going to get into all this "he's young and will improve and be more consistent" because there has been enough of that. I'll just point out one thing: For a team that intends to build it's offense around a guy like Tyreke, who's main offensive weapon is his drive, a big men who can shoot 3's is one of the biggest assets it can have. A big man who is glued to the post might get more points in the paint and more rebounds but he will also crowd the paint, making drives for Tyreke and Beno (and Martin when he comes back) much more risky. Big men that are good enough shooters to draw their men outside open up lanes for the penetrating guards. That corner 3 was a shot that Spencer could make and he was right to take it. Had he made that shot the lead would've been cut to 3 and everyone would've reacted differently. I am positive that coach Westphal works with him on outside shooting and encourages him to take open shots because that's the kind of offense he is going for.

This team will inevitably have more bad games like the one tonight, but I know one thing for sure - PW knows exactly what he's doing, and any player who does anything consistently, even if it looks weird to most fans, is doing it because PW instructed him to do so, or else he would be seeing the games from the bench.
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Welcome to the board. :)

I tend to agree with your assessment of the potential value of having a big who can step back and hit the three, but expect a lot of flak from some others.
 
Asaf said:
New guy here...

I've been lurking this board in the last couple of days, and I see a lot of Spencer Hawes bashing. I'm not going to get into all this "he's young and will improve and be more consistent" because there has been enough of that. I'll just point out one thing: For a team that intends to build it's offense around a guy like Tyreke, who's main offensive weapon is his drive, a big men who can shoot 3's is one of the biggest assets it can have. A big man who is glued to the post might get more points in the paint and more rebounds but he will also crowd the paint, making drives for Tyreke and Beno (and Martin when he comes back) much more risky. Big men that are good enough shooters to draw their men outside open up lanes for the penetrating guards. That corner 3 was a shot that Spencer could make and he was right to take it. Had he made that shot the lead would've been cut to 3 and everyone would've reacted differently. I am positive that coach Westphal works with him on outside shooting and encourages him to take open shots because that's the kind of offense he is going for.

This team will inevitably have more bad games like the one tonight, but I know one thing for sure - PW knows exactly what he's doing, and any player who does anything consistently, even if it looks weird to most fans, is doing it because PW instructed him to do so, or else he would be seeing the games from the bench.
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That's all fine and dandy, but the fact still remains that Spencer is a 7 foot center who weighs 250 pounds. He was drafted because of his vast arsenal of an array of post moves. The guy shies away from contact, rebounding, and using his gift of having a post game.

Imagine what Dwight Howard would do to this league if he had a post game. That part of the game is undervalued, yet so important.

What is wrong with him is that he rather sprint to the 3 pt line than go inside and execute a post move. He would rather let a man go to the basket than try to box out or knock a guy on his glutes.
 
VF21 said:
Welcome to the board. :)

I tend to agree with your assessment of the potential value of having a big who can step back and hit the three, but expect a lot of flak from some others.
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Thanks :)

I must admit I hopped on the Kings wagon because of Omri (I'm originally from Israel and a loyal fan of Maccabi Tel-Aviv), and I was a little worried this was going to be a frustrating season, with the Kings being the worst team in the league last season and all... but I have been incredibly impressed by this team! I wasn't a big fan of the NBA because of the "star mentality", where you have to have a big star on your team that takes all the shots regardless if he has four guys on him and all of his teammates are wide open (a good example would be last night when Kobe made that shot that had maybe a 5% chance of going in, when it would've made much more sense to pass back to Artest who was WIDE open and could've taken a 50% chance shot instead of the 5% shot that luckily went in), but the Kings so far have been an amazing TEAM. Sure, they are young and trying to find their way, but once they all grow together as a team and as individuals, they will be scary. My prediction is that if they keep this roster more or less together, with some adjustments here and there, they will be borderline playoffs this season, definite first or second round playoffs next year, and title contenders in 2-3 years.
 
I don't remember what quarter it was (3rd or 4th) but did anybody notice Kevin talking to Tyreke? It's not something we see a lot from Kevin but it was nice seeing Kevin "show" Tyreke other ways to improve his game, or at least on that specific play.
 
DeaconBlues said:
Meh, he's playing within his game. I don't mind him, or Bargs (or Lampe for that matter) doing that, so long as they play defence and battle for boards, which none of them do. They could form a "7' softie" club.

Don't worry, my shift will be over in half an hour and I'll stop flooding the thread.
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Being a Torontonian I am familiar with the concept of the soft, jump shot happy seven footer who opens the court but prevents you from winning meaningful games against teams that destroy your finesse with muscle.But that shot, at that particular instance, by your center, was terrible. Let alone Casspi who ended 4-4 for 3s was right next to him. OK, he is 21 and he will ,maybe, get better.
 
bloom said:
I don't remember what quarter it was (3rd or 4th) but did anybody notice Kevin talking to Tyreke? It's not something we see a lot from Kevin but it was nice seeing Kevin "show" Tyreke other ways to improve his game, or at least on that specific play.
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yea i noticed that to. i thought it was good to see him give evans some suggestions.
 
bloom said:
I don't remember what quarter it was (3rd or 4th) but did anybody notice Kevin talking to Tyreke? It's not something we see a lot from Kevin but it was nice seeing Kevin "show" Tyreke other ways to improve his game, or at least on that specific play.
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Kevin's been talking to Tyreke right along. It's not an isolated situation. If you look closely, you'll see that Martin is actually sitting on the bench with the players and not behind them. He's talking to the coaches and to Reke and a couple of other players.
 
Rockmeister said:
Then I guess missing 12 free throws is acceptable with you.
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You're focusing on a peripheral issue.

The Kings need to improve their defense.

The Kings need to limit their turnovers.

Tyreke, specifically, needs to dribble the ball less and pass more.

And way down the list of priorities there's the free throw issue, which isn't pretty but is not what lost this game, not by a long shot.
 
casspion said:
Being a Torontonian I am familiar with the concept of the soft, jump shot happy seven footer who opens the court but prevents you from winning meaningful games against teams that destroy your finesse with muscle.But that shot, at that particular instance, by your center, was terrible. Let alone Casspi who ended 4-4 for 3s was right next to him. OK, he is 21 and he will ,maybe, get better.
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Stop it with the dividing of the team and pitting one player against others. Stop this crap. Just stop it. None of the actual Kings fans likes you when you do this. This is a Kings forum, not a Casspi forum. You are not doing your player any favors by representing him in this way. This kind of crap reflects badly on you and the player you are rooting for.

I love Casspi, and I think he will succeed in spite of people like you acting like *******s on his team's forum board. I guarantee you Casspi himself does not think like you. You should learn from him.

All of us around here have already been through this with other players' fans who come over here for just one player. What happens is they start bashing the rest of the team in order to try to make their player look better, but it never works, and everyone immediately sees through it. In fact it's one of the most annoying things you could do here. I know that other posters have spoken to you about this. I (and perhaps others) will continue to call you out on this crap every time I see it. This crap is not appreciated.
 
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