HB IS BACK

twslam07 said:
Yeah, $19.305 mil by my calculations.

If we offer up Mitchell in a S&T (and waive Lyles’ cap hold), we’d effectively have $24.369 mil in cap space.
Click to expand...

I have no idea where the thought process come from in trading away an extremely promising young defensing specialist and developing point guard who continued to show great improvement last year... for cap space in a mediocre free agent market stacked with players that play the position of our All-Rookie first team draft pick who just broke the three point record for rookies.

I'm open to being enlightened!
 
206Fan said:
I think the pushback you're seeing is because the Kings look like they might be "running it back" with the same core that lost in the 1st round playoffs. Everyone else in the Western Conference seems to be adjusting and improving their rosters. The Kings finished with the 3rd seed last year, but the West was historically injured. Only 5 games separated the Kings from the Suns, Clippers, Warriors, and Lakers. But keep in mind, all 4 of those teams had their star players miss a third of the season.

I think it would be a disappointment to have the same exact roster from last year. I don't think you could even peg us in as a guaranteed playoff team next year.
Click to expand...

Seriously. I can’t believe running it back isn’t getting more backlash. Last season rocked. But so much went right to help it along the way. To run it back expecting the same just seems foolish. We’ll be a playoff team, but we won’t be winning any divisions or playoff series.
 
SLAB said:
man… every single one of us thought the same thing about Troy Williams. And then Da’Quan Jeffries. Then Louis King. Until he actually sustains it for an amount of time he’s just another hope and prayer fringe wing player we’ve been fielding for the past 5+ years.
Click to expand...
You just made me appreciate Keegan that much more... current Keegan is what we thought every 6'8 SF dating back to Donte Greene would become
 
hrdboild said:
I think there was a recognition from the fans and the front office that the team needed to get better defensively and we were rumored to be interested in a few guys who would have helped in that regard but it turns out the cost was too high. That's where the disappointment comes from. Almost all of the free agents we were associated with to replace Barnes would have been problematic and/or outright terrible though so of all possible outcomes, I'm satisfied that Monte was able to bring Barnes back on a reasonable contract instead of splurging on someone who might end up being a poor fit.

This isn't a homerun move and there's a chance we slide a bit in the standings with teams like Phoenix, Golden State, and the LA Clippers/Lakers willing to sacrifice all of their future assets and their owner's money stacking multiple all-stars together. As we see almost every year though, the playoffs are often about who is healthiest and peaking at the right time. As long as we can get into that top 10 (ideally top 6 again to avoid the play-in) we'll have another shot at a deep playoff run. And that's really all we can ask for as fans.
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Yeah, I think it’s natural for there to be some disappointment when other west teams are adding stars, the Kings open a chunk of cap space but then seem like they may be poised to just run it back. But, in a vacuum, the Barnes deal is reasonable value. In that thread in the personnel moves forum I remember a few of us went through who might check all the boxes — decent defender, good shooter, 4/3 big wing size, secondary playmaking… and it was Barnes and maybe one or two of the restricted FAs that fit. Add in considerations of price and chemistry and it makes even more sense.

Of course, we’re not in a vacuum, so let’s see what the other moves are.
 
SLAB said:
man… every single one of us thought the same thing about Troy Williams. And then Da’Quan Jeffries. Then Louis King. Until he actually sustains it for an amount of time he’s just another hope and prayer fringe wing player we’ve been fielding for the past 5+ years.
Click to expand...

Oh boo-hiss.......go watch some Niners.....:)
 
The_Jamal said:
I had this thought the other day, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that HB goes to the bench and he becomes our 3/4 flex guy there and takes on the Iggy role for us as the steady vet leader. While we go add a Bruce Brown/Grant Williams to the starters that allows Keegan more breathing room to grow into a true 3rd option type while raising the floor of the defense with the starters. So:

Fox || Davion
Huerter || Monk
BROWN || HB
Keegan || HB
Domas || Lyles

And if Vezenkov cracks the rotation, great. But that also solves your problem too where maybe you don't have to stagger Fox/Domas as much if Monk/HB are running that 2nd unit offense with Lyles/Vezenkov as the spacers of that group.
Click to expand...

Could be but then IMO Barnes just went from good contract to meh. I would honestly see more value in a Grant Williams at that price off the bench than a Barnes since Williams has specialist value. The issue is Barnes is now here for the long term so adding to him is a question mark on value IMO. And isn't that the problem with Barnes the entire time? HB doesn't really choose to run anything. Run your offense players need to see the best option to score in the mirror every time they look haha. Barnes CAN do it, but he always seems to choose not to and we now know why Barnes can be frustrating at times to previous fan bases but this is why Barnes is as good as he is. It's the same thing with Domas, don't change someone that's developed and they're that good already. If you need changes, make changes to your roster, not the player. There's an off chance it could work but if it doesn't the downside is incredible.

I might be overestimating Sasha, but I can see a potential scenario where he's the one pushing some of those names down the list of the rotation. We might find out.
 
206Fan said:
I think the pushback you're seeing is because the Kings look like they might be "running it back" with the same core that lost in the 1st round playoffs. Everyone else in the Western Conference seems to be adjusting and improving their rosters. The Kings finished with the 3rd seed last year, but the West was historically injured. Only 5 games separated the Kings from the Suns, Clippers, Warriors, and Lakers. But keep in mind, all 4 of those teams had their star players miss a third of the season.

I think it would be a disappointment to have the same exact roster from last year. I don't think you could even peg us in as a guaranteed playoff team next year.
Click to expand...


Guaranteed? of course not, injuries can hit any team, but I'm optimistic.....Brown didn't win coach of the year for nothin'.
 
kingdivac said:
Oh boo-hiss.......go watch some Niners.....:)
Click to expand...
The fact that the 9ers haven't won a ring in the last 10 years is a travesty.... what's a good comparison? KD-Westbrook OKC? CP3-Griffin Doc Rivers? I don't like any of those comparisons because we were closer to a ring than they were. It'd be like the Warriors' dynasty (pre KD), except no rings.

sad.
 
206Fan said:
I think the pushback you're seeing is because the Kings look like they might be "running it back" with the same core that lost in the 1st round playoffs. Everyone else in the Western Conference seems to be adjusting and improving their rosters. The Kings finished with the 3rd seed last year, but the West was historically injured. Only 5 games separated the Kings from the Suns, Clippers, Warriors, and Lakers. But keep in mind, all 4 of those teams had their star players miss a third of the season.

I think it would be a disappointment to have the same exact roster from last year. I don't think you could even peg us in as a guaranteed playoff team next year.
Click to expand...
This is not likely complacency on the part of Monte. It’s rumored they were talking to Barnes and then broke off talks for a while. I would guess we looked around at other options and decided nothing we liked was guaranteed when free agency opened and so we went the Barnes route. I would much rather do this than get stuck with our pants down after we couldn’t score a replacement and went into next year with Edwards as our starting three.
I get it, Barnes leaves me kind of “meh”, but if he was on the mavs last year and we just signed him as a free agent to the kings, I would likely be pretty pumped about getting one of the better free agent forwards on the market for a very reasonable price.
 
206Fan said:
I think the pushback you're seeing is because the Kings look like they might be "running it back" with the same core that lost in the 1st round playoffs. Everyone else in the Western Conference seems to be adjusting and improving their rosters. The Kings finished with the 3rd seed last year, but the West was historically injured. Only 5 games separated the Kings from the Suns, Clippers, Warriors, and Lakers. But keep in mind, all 4 of those teams had their star players miss a third of the season.

I think it would be a disappointment to have the same exact roster from last year. I don't think you could even peg us in as a guaranteed playoff team next year.
Click to expand...

If the Kings had won 58 games? Run that ish back. 48? Eh. Great start, but as start nonetheless. I don't think the chemistry is going to get better,, it's topped as topped can get. The defense as a team, Sasha living up to the hype, Monk making a jump, Keegan rising, those might be the only ways. We will find out tomorrow.
 
206Fan said:
I think the pushback you're seeing is because the Kings look like they might be "running it back" with the same core that lost in the 1st round playoffs. Everyone else in the Western Conference seems to be adjusting and improving their rosters. The Kings finished with the 3rd seed last year, but the West was historically injured. Only 5 games separated the Kings from the Suns, Clippers, Warriors, and Lakers. But keep in mind, all 4 of those teams had their star players miss a third of the season.

I think it would be a disappointment to have the same exact roster from last year. I don't think you could even peg us in as a guaranteed playoff team next year.
Click to expand...

I don't know why anyone would assume those injured teams get better. I'd sooner assume it just snowballs here with age. All the injured cores but one are aging and the one who isn't is also building around Air Gumbo.

Street Clothes played more games than the previous two seasons, Paul George actually played the most games he's played in a Clippers uniform last year. Kawhi about the same, KD about the same, Lebron about the same while also being 38 and playing on a bum ankle that might get worse.
 
SLAB said:
Seriously. I can’t believe running it back isn’t getting more backlash. Last season rocked. But so much went right to help it along the way. To run it back expecting the same just seems foolish. We’ll be a playoff team, but we won’t be winning any divisions or playoff series.
Click to expand...

I get the sentiment but it's a pretty bad free agent class and the stars who want out lately have been able to pick their team and force their GMs hand. I don't love the moves Monte has made so far this summer but I don't see a lot of better options out there either. The players left on the draft board at 24 were of comparable quality to the guys he ultimately got in the 2nd round so that trade doesn't bother me. Getting the Holmes contract off the books was worth losing an asset.

My preference has been to pry someone loose in free agency next year -- OG Anunoby, Jaylen Brown, and Onyeka Okongwu being my main targets -- but to do that we probably had to let Barnes walk and that would have really shaken fan confidence. I'm not clear yet what the rules are on trading Barnes but this shouldn't completely rule out the possibility of a bigger move in the summer of 2024 and beyond. Monte has already shown with the Haliburton-Sabonis trade that he's not afraid to give up top-level talent if he likes the return. I think everyone expects Boston to give Jaylen Brown a huge contract and then trade him in a year. Houston and Atlanta have so many young forwards on their rosters that they can't possibly find playing time for all of them. There will still be opportunities in the future to take a bigger leap forward.

Looking around the league at the moves other teams have been making, I'm happy we have a GM who isn't going to panic and overspend on plan B moves when other GMs tell him no. Better opportunities will be there in the future. Retaining our current assets and continuing to be patient isn't a bad strategy for now. It's the core of Fox, Murray, Sabonis and Coach Brown that is going to keep us relevant and that group should give Monte multiple years to get the supporting cast right.
 
There also may be a realization that this team isn't winning a title this year. The West will be loaded and we just don't have the same high end talent as some teams. But there are so many teams that have mortgaged futures for a shot at competing in the next year or so. Honestly, where are teams like the Warriors, Suns, Lakers, Clippers, Wolves and Blazers going to be in 2-3 years? The goal might be to keep positive momentum, look for opportunities to improve, but don't do anything foolish while you wait for these other teams to punch themselves out. In 2-3 years Lebron is retired, the Warriors are ancient, the Clippers and Suns have broken up their rosters, the Wolves are a disaster (still), and the Blazers realize they missed the boat to rebuild. A good Kings team is then in a position to add its missing piece to compete with an aging Nuggets team, and up and coming teams like OKC, Utah, the Pellies, etc...
 
Rain man said:
There also may be a realization that this team isn't winning a title this year. The West will be loaded and we just don't have the same high end talent as some teams. But there are so many teams that have mortgaged futures for a shot at competing in the next year or so. Honestly, where are teams like the Warriors, Suns, Lakers, Clippers, Wolves and Blazers going to be in 2-3 years? The goal might be to keep positive momentum, look for opportunities to improve, but don't do anything foolish while you wait for these other teams to punch themselves out. In 2-3 years Lebron is retired, the Warriors are ancient, the Clippers and Suns have broken up their rosters, the Wolves are a disaster (still), and the Blazers realize they missed the boat to rebuild. A good Kings team is then in a position to add its missing piece to compete with an aging Nuggets team, and up and coming teams like OKC, Utah, the Pellies, etc...
Click to expand...

Was there another team that had two all NBA players? Not sure, too lazy to check.
 
Vinny Basketballerino said:
Was there another team that had two all NBA players? Not sure, too lazy to check.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure. But as much as I love Fox and Sabonis, we are fooling ourselves to think they are higher end talent than Lebron/AD, Kawhi/PG, Durant/Booker/Beal, etc... Now high end talent is only one part of the equation. Injuries, availability, and chemistry are all key, and the Kings beat them there. And maybe it isn't a conscious decision to concede the title this year, but there may be some self-conscious realization that there isn't a move that makes us a title favorite this year, but that a lot of the teams we are behind will be much worse in a few years. Put differently, maybe Monte is content to stay on his original timeline to turn this thing around, rather than feeling compelled to make a big move now because he sees the Western Conference that is on the horizon in a few years. That doesn't mean we are giving up, it just means we don't panic and make a desperation move when this might not even be our best window to win.
 
206Fan said:
I think the pushback you're seeing is because the Kings look like they might be "running it back" with the same core that lost in the 1st round playoffs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, with other team generally healthy and our two all-stars with broken hands and one with a chest contusion and a shiner brighter than the Beam (playing against the NBA champs with Green pulling all his abusive tricks that didn't generally get called). That probably had nothing to do with it at all, right?

We also were within one last second 3 from likely winning the series, too.

Look, I get it. We all wanted to upgrade where we could to improve (especially) defensively. But this year's FA group isn't that great overall. Barnes is generally solid and if the FO is getting feedback that their prize pursuits may not be available then by all means let's bring back the efficient starter we had last year that was an awesome locker room guy.

We still have what, $15+ mil to work with? And possible trades. FA doesn't even start until tomorrow. Let's see what the FO of the year can do once that starts.
 
Rain man said:
I'm not sure. But as much as I love Fox and Sabonis, we are fooling ourselves to think they are higher end talent than Lebron/AD, Kawhi/PG, Durant/Booker/Beal, etc... Now high end talent is only one part of the equation. Injuries, availability, and chemistry are all key, and the Kings beat them there. And maybe it isn't a conscious decision to concede the title this year, but there may be some self-conscious realization that there isn't a move that makes us a title favorite this year, but that a lot of the teams we are behind will be much worse in a few years. Put differently, maybe Monte is content to stay on his original timeline to turn this thing around, rather than feeling compelled to make a big move now because he sees the Western Conference that is on the horizon in a few years. That doesn't mean we are giving up, it just means we don't panic and make a desperation move when this might not even be our best window to win.
Click to expand...

And while it might not be the end all, people were starting to write off the Suns and Lakers moves last year as they went on while the Kings watched from home. That was pure fact that might have nothing to do with next season but you can't ignore it if you're Monte. The NBA is always an arms race in some form. The hope now is the stockpile the Suns built up blows up in their face. Monte knows this if it's true he had an offer for Beal on the table. Signing Barnes back might have been Monte's plan B.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1674617379211575296

Low USG KING

So honestly, I think this speaks a bit to my HB off the bench idea. If you moved him to the bench with Monk, could you up his USG and make him more of a focal point? Could he keep his efficiency?

This is the type of scoring you want next to stars of course. But I think most agree his spot probably needs to be a high level defender.

Thinking through that 2nd unit LU at the start of the 2nd quarter. What if:

Fox
Monk
Kessler? TD?
Lyles
Metu/Len/Holmes

became

Fox
Monk
Brown
HB
Lyles.

Or you flex up HB to the 3, get Vezenkov in at the 4 and you put Davion at the 1. Let's you keep more Fox/Sabonis on the floor at the same time.
 
Warhawk said:
Yeah, with other team generally healthy and our two all-stars with broken hands and one with a chest contusion and a shiner brighter than the Beam (playing against the NBA champs with Green pulling all his abusive tricks that didn't generally get called). That probably had nothing to do with it at all, right?

We also were within one last second 3 from likely winning the series, too.

Look, I get it. We all wanted to upgrade where we could to improve (especially) defensively. But this year's FA group isn't that great overall. Barnes is generally solid and if the FO is getting feedback that their prize pursuits may not be available then by all means let's bring back the efficient starter we had last year that was an awesome locker room guy.

We still have what, $15+ mil to work with? And possible trades. FA doesn't even start until tomorrow. Let's see what the FO of the year can do once that starts.
Click to expand...

You have to admit Fox especially earned that injury. Fox better not have to go that far out as a superstar next season for this team to matter when it counts. At least wait until after the first round lol.
 
206Fan said:
The fact that the 9ers haven't won a ring in the last 10 years is a travesty.... what's a good comparison? KD-Westbrook OKC? CP3-Griffin Doc Rivers? I don't like any of those comparisons because we were closer to a ring than they were. It'd be like the Warriors' dynasty (pre KD), except no rings.

sad.
Click to expand...

Can’t expect a SB when you’re running out Jim. Can’t excuse Harbaugh not running Gore on the goalline once against Ravens though.
 
The Effort Police said:
That's completely ridiculous.

The 4/3 flex like Barnes and Keegan is the most valuable position in basketball and even with both of them we have a dearth there.
Click to expand...
yep. With Colby Jones here, whos yet another SG who can in a snap handle the reigns of PG duties or even some SF. With Lyles and Queta likely getting resigned the C position seems mostly settled, I'd think the Kings could certainly look to add another forward even with Edwards and Barnes back.

Obviously Vezenkov is the name everyones waiting on, but lets say Keita Bates-Diop who played for the Spurs last season, to me he represents an upgrade for us at forward, then we wouldn't be basically paying to run it back.
 
The_Jamal said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1674617379211575296

Low USG KING

So honestly, I think this speaks a bit to my HB off the bench idea. If you moved him to the bench with Monk, could you up his USG and make him more of a focal point? Could he keep his efficiency?

This is the type of scoring you want next to stars of course. But I think most agree his spot probably needs to be a high level defender.

Thinking through that 2nd unit LU at the start of the 2nd quarter. What if:

Fox
Monk
Kessler? TD?
Lyles
Metu/Len/Holmes

became

Fox
Monk
Brown
HB
Lyles.

Or you flex up HB to the 3, get Vezenkov in at the 4 and you put Davion at the 1. Lets you keep more Fox/Sabonis on the floor at the same time.
Click to expand...

I think the best thing about bringing back HB is the stability and the fact that HB opposite Keegan in the front court gives Keegan the clearest path to becoming that 3rd star the Kings need.

If we would had signed Kuzma or Grant, they would had thrown a huge road block to the usage that Keegan would need to become an All-Star, which I think he could become
 
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