HB IS BACK

[kingdivac]

What if Sasha is good? You've just created a pathway to problems. We saw it last year with Huerter and Lyles late in the year. Someone back there will just gobble up someone elses minutes. For Lyles it was Murray's he chewed on, for Huerter in the playoffs it was Monk and TD. Platooning kills value as well. TD didn't even play because he wa o an option, he played because Brown felt he had no choice. Edwards got crunched totally. Having someone making 2 million deep is fine, someone expecting to play isn't an option. Holmes is a lesson.

I dont buy that - it doesn't have to be "platooning" .....when you go 11 to 3 in seed - you've established that chemistry has been mostly checked - the most elusive of end-goals for team sports - especially high skill-level basketball. Now the harder part has been bagged..... look for manageable goals from the team you brought back......players want to improve together under a great coach and fans - check, check. You heard Lyles almost pleading to resign.....absolutely loved feeling the pull and feeling part of the unit.......bravo to Brown and McNair. I was in Florida for game 4 of the Warriros playoffs....a couple set down next us and said, "oh the Kings are on, great"......."we're from Pennsylvania, and we likewatching the Kings, they're a fresh watch".
Deep-Sixers I guess....

 

[kingdivac]

The question is will they even if they can? Edwards went from playing as the Kings prepped for the playoffs to out once they started. The Kings offense once the Warriors hounded the DHO went from best of all time to 12th out of 16. Then even with Curry on the other side lighting him up Brown had no choice but push Davion out because Fox wasn't 100% and even when he was still, the tide was turning and the DHO guys were fading.

Yeah, I'm guessing Brown felt Edwards wasn't quite ready, but would've liked to have seen him play in the playoffs more....finite amount of minutes. He'll get his chances next season.

 

[iowamcnabb]

no this year. No impact on our ability to extend

We can extend him at 140 percent of his currently salary. That is almost certainly not enough hence the raise and extend that has been talked about by all the cap experts.

 

[dude12]

RUN IT BACK

 

[SacTownKid]

I dont buy that - it doesn't have to be "platooning" .....when you go 11 to 3 in seed - you've established that chemistry has been mostly checked - the most elusive of end-goals for team sports - especially high skill-level basketball. Now the harder part has been bagged..... look for manageable goals from the team you brought back......players want to improve together under a great coach and fans - check, check. You heard Lyles almost pleading to resign.....absolutely loved feeling the pull and feeling part of the unit.......bravo to Brown and McNair. I was in Florida for game 4 of the Warriros playoffs....a couple set down next us and said, "oh the Kings are on, great"......."we're from Pennsylvania, and we likewatching the Kings, they're a fresh watch".
Deep-Sixers I guess....

Trey Lyles carved out that 8th spot come playoff time. He's not outside of the window of being a rotation guy. At least not yet. Having a decent option 10 deep is fine, but making that a priority or expecting that to be the difference is bordering on delusion. If they play, that means you either platoon or someone else above them failed. Which is why TD and Monk got the opportunities they did in the playoffs. Players above them didn't meet the needs of Brown at the time apparently. This is the same thing that gets you stuff like Holmes will be the best backup C in the league! When no team pays that much so even if he's good, it's terrble value, but you're also assuming all players can light it up in that manner. This is why 6th man types are so valuable. Not everyone can do that and the ones that usually can run an offense to some extent or can score at will. Bobby Jackson, Corliss Williamson, Manu, James Harden, Jamal Crawford, and so on.

 

[iowamcnabb]

3rd option? They didn't exactly ride HB as the 3rd option LAST year. He took the 6th-most shots/game and was 12th in FGA/36, behind Fox, Monk, Huerter, Sabonis, Murray and Lyles. That is, behind every core rotation member except Davion. He has almost no plays run for him, which Brown acknowledged.

And STILL he essentially tied with Huerter for 3rd-leading scorer (15.2 ppg for Huerter, 15 for HB).

he was basically the third option in the starting line up if you want to call it a tie with KVon. My bigger point was that people seem to think we needed to replace our low usage 5th option Highly efficient player with a high usage player.

The goal is to use the guy you spent the 4th pick on as your higher usage second or third option otherwise what’s the point? Top 5 picks should be one of your top 3 scoring options otherwise you might as well ship him off.

 

[miltonap]

RUN IT BACK

Yikes. I hope they don't do that

 

[sactowndog]

I think pretty much any of those mid-tier guys left (Brown/PJW/Brooks/Williams for sure. Probably a few others) would make this plan fairly successful in my eyes. Would basically be trading 24 and getting off the dead Holmes money to add a quality core piece to our top 8.

If it's just the extension thing... bleh. Not a total loss because making sure you have Sabonis is still good, but it's way too conservative for my liking. We don't have a top 5 player, Kings have to swing bigger than that to make up the difference.

Brown would be an A minus, PJW?, Brooks (C has he jacks up bad shots), G Williams (D as he can’t really defend 3-4) more an undersized 3-4.

 

[Elektrik]

Seems like a lot of negativity regarding HB’s extension. At this point, I see the core that got us the third seed in the west reunited with money yet to spend. I’m pretty happy about that. I’d like to believe that HP’s presence in the locker room is a huge plus. Could you imagine the Weber, Vlade, Peja Kings without Vlade in the locker room? Potentially a mess. I would say take a look at HB’s numbers and then watch his highlight reel. Pretty darn good. Do you really think you will be getting much better for the price we paid for him? He JUST turned 31 and played all 82 games last year and stays in great shape. Maybe Coach needs to give him a rest here and there this year as admittedly he looked tired in the playoffs. Coach Brown gave a much younger Fox needed rest at times in the season. HB was solid all season long. I hear alot of criticism of HB’s defense too, and while he is no Doug Christie or Ron Artest, he is a solid if unspectacular defender. I guess I would like to see a little more support of one of the most underrated teammates on this club.

I guess we all want to see the shiny new toy or the new kid on the block or that single guy that will take us to the promised land. I get it. One guy alone is not gonna do it though unless of course it’s Michael or Kobe, but losing Barnes could be a huge loss. People get bored with the guy that gets up every day in a workmanlike fashion and goes in and does his job well. Too many people want the bells, whistles, and fireworks of something new and shiny. Apparently Monty and Coach Brown feel the same as I do. Glue guys that are leaders who have the respect of their teammates are important. It’s hard to place a price on that but there is considerable immeasurable value there.

There is still a lot of dollars available to sign what we really need in a wing, defender, backup shot blocker rebounder….A sign and trade or a regular trade could still happen. I feel strongly there are cards that have yet to be played. And if we “run it back” ( I hate that phrase for some reason) “as is” you have to figure that all the younger players will get better. Sasha should be here, Keegan will be even better, and whoever else they bring in will be added to the mix. I see nothing but silver linings everywhere for this new seasons Kings team. Stay positive. This is going to be a big year for The Kings!

 

[SacTownKid]

he was basically the third option in the starting line up if you want to call it a tie with KVon. My bigger point was that people seem to think we needed our low usage 5th option Highly efficient player with a high usage player.

The goal is to use the guy you spent the 4th pick on as your higher usage second or third option otherwise what’s the point? Top 5 picks should be one of your top 3 scoring options otherwise you might as well ship him off.

And if Keegan can't start creating for himself or others we already saw a preview of who is likely to fill in the blank, Malik Monk.

 

[sactowndog]

We can extend him at 140 percent of his currently salary. That is almost certainly not enough hence the raise and extend that has been talked about by all the cap experts.

yeah well paying Sabonis 40M a year before he proves he can hit a 15 ft set shot would be foolish.

 

[LPKingsFan]

yeah well paying Sabonis 40M a year before he proves he can hit a 15 ft set shot would be foolish.

Maybe, but it doesn’t make the team cheap, which was the original concern.

 

[The_Jamal]

he was basically the third option in the starting line up if you want to call it a tie with KVon. My bigger point was that people seem to think we needed to replace our low usage 5th option Highly efficient player with a high usage player.

The goal is to use the guy you spent the 4th pick on as your higher usage second or third option otherwise what’s the point? Top 5 picks should be one of your top 3 scoring options otherwise you might as well ship him off.

The loudest voice here for the past year on that front has been Sactownkid and we've gotten into at least 37 discussions about team philosophy since then lol. But yeah I agree. This team needs to commit more resources to the defensive end rather than going and investing in a 3rd offensive star.

 

[Dongoodboy]

Traded the frp to run it back is the last thing I want to see, hope we still get someone and not evaporating the space to extend Sabonis

 

[iowamcnabb]

Remember when we all said this year wouldn’t be as fun as last year? Haha

 

[The_Jamal]

yeah well paying Sabonis 40M a year before he proves he can hit a 15 ft set shot would be foolish.

I mean... he did. During the regular season.

21/41 for 51% from 10-16 feet. 24/54 for 44% from 16 feet to inside the 3pt line. Shot 37% on 83 3PA. Not earth-shattering, but a big reason for his jump is he had the confidence to pull those when open.

Something shifted in the playoffs. It wasn't like he was just bricking open shot after open shot, he was acting like he was Rudy Gobert out there. Just not even looking to get a shot up. I'm going to guess it was a set-back with his finger and he didn't have a good feel of the bad. His handle was way sloppier, he was getting stripped far more often, etc.

 

[kingdivac]

Trey Lyles carved out that 8th spot come playoff time. He's not outside of the window of being a rotation guy. At least not yet. Having a decent option 10 deep is fine, but making that a priority or expecting that to be the difference is bordering on delusion. If they play, that means you either platoon or someone else above them failed. Which is why TD and Monk got the opportunities they did in the playoffs. Players above them didn't meet the needs of Brown at the time apparently. This is the same thing that gets you stuff like Holmes will be the best backup C in the league! When no team pays that much so even if he's good, it's terrble value, but you're also assuming all players can light it up in that manner. This is why 6th man types are so valuable. Not everyone can do that and the ones that usually can run an offense to some extent or can score at will. Bobby Jackson, Corliss Williamson, Manu, James Harden, Jamal Crawford, and so on.

Huerter is the one player who had a noticeable fall-off, and though Sabonis numbers looked ok for the series, I didn't think he handled the pressure well granted he got mauled in a couple of the games.....I'm sure Huerter and Sabonis know.....I'm assuming that all players come in and work on their own deficiencies as well as the teams (defense). Despite getting ousted with home-court in R1, I was pleased with the season.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

Why? It isn’t an upgrade!

The entire team continued to get better all year. It's an upgrade by continuing to let this team improve as a unit.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

Apparently Monte agrees with this.

Barnes is criminally underrated even by our own fanbase imo. In addition to his solid and consistent stat lines, there's so much he does that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. He knows how to win a game down the stretch by doing things that bring the momentum back in our favor. Most obvious thing he can do seemingly at will is get to the line in the fourth quarter to stop the other team's run. I've seen this so many times I just come to expect it. He's the level headed vet out there that steadies the team and gets them over the finish line. That stuff is invaluable.

He will not be short on offers. Just depends on if Monte has him in our plans going forward. If not, it's not because he's not good enough. We could win a championship with him in the starting lineup.

 

[gilly420]

Monk is exposed as a FA next year. He will be looking to get paid.

 

[hrdboild]

Seems like a lot of negativity regarding HB’s extension. At this point, I see the core that got us the third seed in the west reunited with money yet to spend. I’m pretty happy about that. I’d like to believe that HP’s presence in the locker room is a huge plus. Could you imagine the Weber, Vlade, Peja Kings without Vlade in the locker room? Potentially a mess. I would say take a look at HB’s numbers and then watch his highlight reel. Pretty darn good. Do you really think you will be getting much better for the price we paid for him? He JUST turned 31 and played all 82 games last year and stays in great shape. Maybe Coach needs to give him a rest here and there this year as admittedly he looked tired in the playoffs. Coach Brown gave a much younger Fox needed rest at times in the season. HB was solid all season long. I hear alot of criticism of HB’s defense too, and while he is no Doug Christie or Ron Artest, he is a solid if unspectacular defender. I guess I would like to see a little more support of one of the most underrated teammates on this club.

I guess we all want to see the shiny new toy or the new kid on the block or that single guy that will take us to the promised land. I get it. One guy alone is not gonna do it though unless of course it’s Michael or Kobe, but losing Barnes could be a huge loss. People get bored with the guy that gets up every day in a workmanlike fashion and goes in and does his job well. Too many people want the bells, whistles, and fireworks of something new and shiny. Apparently Monty and Coach Brown feel the same as I do. Glue guys that are leaders who have the respect of their teammates are important. It’s hard to place a price on that but there is considerable immeasurable value there.

There is still a lot of dollars available to sign what we really need in a wing, defender, backup shot blocker rebounder….A sign and trade or a regular trade could still happen. I feel strongly there are cards that have yet to be played. And if we “run it back” ( I hate that phrase for some reason) “as is” you have to figure that all the younger players will get better. Sasha should be here, Keegan will be even better, and whoever else they bring in will be added to the mix. I see nothing but silver linings everywhere for this new seasons Kings team. Stay positive. This is going to be a big year for The Kings!

I think there was a recognition from the fans and the front office that the team needed to get better defensively and we were rumored to be interested in a few guys who would have helped in that regard but it turns out the cost was too high. That's where the disappointment comes from. Almost all of the free agents we were associated with to replace Barnes would have been problematic and/or outright terrible though so of all possible outcomes, I'm satisfied that Monte was able to bring Barnes back on a reasonable contract instead of splurging on someone who might end up being a poor fit.

This isn't a homerun move and there's a chance we slide a bit in the standings with teams like Phoenix, Golden State, and the LA Clippers/Lakers willing to sacrifice all of their future assets and their owner's money stacking multiple all-stars together. As we see almost every year though, the playoffs are often about who is healthiest and peaking at the right time. As long as we can get into that top 10 (ideally top 6 again to avoid the play-in) we'll have another shot at a deep playoff run. And that's really all we can ask for as fans.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

I think if Harry were being paid to remain as a starter he would be getting more than 18 mil.

So maybe this is for him to have a role change which is what I hope for

I would put pineapple on a pizza if Harrison Barnes was not willing to come off the bench without so much as a ripple in team chemistry.

 

[Elektrik]

Monk is exposed as a FA next year. He will be looking to get paid.

If he plays like that this year, he should get paid. Love that guy!

 

[SacTownKid]

The loudest voice here for the past year on that front has been Sactownkid and we've gotten into at least 37 discussions about team philosophy since then lol. But yeah I agree. This team needs to commit more resources to the defensive end rather than going and investing in a 3rd offensive star.

Keegan might be that guy but the issue I saw were offensive flaws during the season, yes, even on the greatest offensive team of all time. The shot distribution was unusually too spread out. Now, yes, a way to counteract that would be defense. I cited the closest example of that shot disribution being the Pistons in the mid 2000's as a title winner. What's the difference there? LOL. When the playoffs started the Kings offense failed them, not so much the defense. The defense was actually middle ground and as I said before the finals the Kings maintained 1 spot ABOVE the Nuggets in defensive rating at 6 or 7. The abysmal performance by the Heat pushed the Nuggets up to 4th at the last minute.

If this team is modeling itself after the Nuggets then getting into the same range as them on defense should be the goal. They were right in the middle at 15th during the year. When the Kings hovered around that same space during the season is when they went on that tear. That's your sweet spot, maybe a little higher because as you've said yourself, the team might lack a little on top end talent.

The issues with this team on defense is who goes out to play it if it's a personnel based set up? The only answer I can see since Barnes is probably here to start and play big minutes is an upgrade to Huerter.

If the Kings core starting 5 is still Fox, Huerter, Barnes, Keegan, and Domas, you kind of are what you are. Is one guy off the bench changing that? Sure Williams would be great but if defense is that much of a priority then someone in that top 5 is going to get pushed down. No doubt. Or you're massively overpaying for a bench guy.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

First impressions: don't love it, don't hate it. Reasonable price, efficient sorer, good guy, consistently positive regular season contributor. But what does the team do next? Where does the defensive improvement come from?

A young man named Kessler Edwards.

 

[SLAB]

A young man named Kessler Edwards.

man… every single one of us thought the same thing about Troy Williams. And then Da’Quan Jeffries. Then Louis King. Until he actually sustains it for an amount of time he’s just another hope and prayer fringe wing player we’ve been fielding for the past 5+ years.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

OH NO WE BROUGHT BACK A PLAYER WHO WAS A CORE PIECE OF US COMPLETELY OUTPERFORMING EXPECTATIONS AND REACHING THE THIRD SEED WHEN MOST OF OUR FAN BASE'S HIGHEST HOPES HAD US SNEAKING INTO THE PLAYOFFS! MONTE HOW COULD YOU DO THIS!!!???

 

[SacTownKid]

Huerter is the one player who had a noticeable fall-off, and though Sabonis numbers looked ok for the series, I didn't think he handled the pressure well granted he got mauled in a couple of the games.....I'm sure Huerter and Sabonis know.....I'm assuming that all players come in and work on their own deficiencies as well as the teams (defense). Despite getting ousted with home-court in R1, I was pleased with the season.

Everyone was, but they were so good that's why Monte can't take his foot off the gas. The bar is higher now in the West probably. Teams can take the Kings out of their DHO so that will be more scouted for sure if they know what they're doing. The only thing that I saw that I don't think it sustainable is staggering Fox and Domas like that. Come playoff time it ain't cutting it. So the question is whether this crop of non true defensive personnel can find a way on that end, or can Monte find the offensive weapon to spell the pressure from Fox and Domas. Maybe that's Keegan. Maybe Sasha. Maybe Monk. Not all hope is lost for sure.

 

[The_Jamal]

Keegan might be that guy but the issue I saw were offensive flaws during the season, yes, even on the greatest offensive team of all time. The shot distribution was unusually too spread out. Now, yes, a way to counteract that would be defense. I cited the closest example of that shot disribution being the Pistons in the mid 2000's as a title winner. What's the difference there? LOL. When the playoffs started the Kings offense failed them, not so much the defense. The defense was actually middle ground and as I said before the finals the Kings maintained 1 spot ABOVE the Nuggets in defensive rating at 6 or 7. The abysmal performance by the Heat pushed the Nuggets up to 4th at the last minute.

If this team is modeling itself after the Nuggets then getting into the same range as them on defense should be the goal. They were right in the middle at 15th during the year. When the Kings hovered around that same space during the season is when they went on that tear. That's your sweet spot, maybe a little higher because as you've said yourself, the team might lack a little on top end talent.

The issues with this team on defense is who goes out to play it if it's a personnel based set up? The only answer I can see since Barnes is probably here to start and play big minutes is an upgrade to Huerter.

If the Kings core starting 5 is still Fox, Huerter, Barnes, Keegan, and Domas, you kind of are what you are. Is one guy off the bench changing that? Sure Williams would be great but if defense is that much of a priority then someone in that top 5 is going to get pushed down. No doubt. Or you're massively overpaying for a bench guy.

I had this thought the other day, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that HB goes to the bench and he becomes our 3/4 flex guy there and takes on the Iggy role for us as the steady vet leader. While we go add a Bruce Brown/Grant Williams to the starters that allows Keegan more breathing room to grow into a true 3rd option type while raising the floor of the defense with the starters. So:

Fox || Davion
Huerter || Monk
BROWN || HB
Keegan || HB
Domas || Lyles

And if Vezenkov cracks the rotation, great. But that also solves your problem too where maybe you don't have to stagger Fox/Domas as much if Monk/HB are running that 2nd unit offense with Lyles/Vezenkov as the spacers of that group.

 

[206Fan]

Seems like a lot of negativity regarding HB’s extension. At this point, I see the core that got us the third seed in the west reunited with money yet to spend. I’m pretty happy about that. I’d like to believe that HP’s presence in the locker room is a huge plus. Could you imagine the Weber, Vlade, Peja Kings without Vlade in the locker room? Potentially a mess. I would say take a look at HB’s numbers and then watch his highlight reel. Pretty darn good. Do you really think you will be getting much better for the price we paid for him? He JUST turned 31 and played all 82 games last year and stays in great shape. Maybe Coach needs to give him a rest here and there this year as admittedly he looked tired in the playoffs. Coach Brown gave a much younger Fox needed rest at times in the season. HB was solid all season long. I hear alot of criticism of HB’s defense too, and while he is no Doug Christie or Ron Artest, he is a solid if unspectacular defender. I guess I would like to see a little more support of one of the most underrated teammates on this club.

I guess we all want to see the shiny new toy or the new kid on the block or that single guy that will take us to the promised land. I get it. One guy alone is not gonna do it though unless of course it’s Michael or Kobe, but losing Barnes could be a huge loss. People get bored with the guy that gets up every day in a workmanlike fashion and goes in and does his job well. Too many people want the bells, whistles, and fireworks of something new and shiny. Apparently Monty and Coach Brown feel the same as I do. Glue guys that are leaders who have the respect of their teammates are important. It’s hard to place a price on that but there is considerable immeasurable value there.

There is still a lot of dollars available to sign what we really need in a wing, defender, backup shot blocker rebounder….A sign and trade or a regular trade could still happen. I feel strongly there are cards that have yet to be played. And if we “run it back” ( I hate that phrase for some reason) “as is” you have to figure that all the younger players will get better. Sasha should be here, Keegan will be even better, and whoever else they bring in will be added to the mix. I see nothing but silver linings everywhere for this new seasons Kings team. Stay positive. This is going to be a big year for The Kings!

I think the pushback you're seeing is because the Kings look like they might be "running it back" with the same core that lost in the 1st round playoffs. Everyone else in the Western Conference seems to be adjusting and improving their rosters. The Kings finished with the 3rd seed last year, but the West was historically injured. Only 5 games separated the Kings from the Suns, Clippers, Warriors, and Lakers. But keep in mind, all 4 of those teams had their star players miss a third of the season.

I think it would be a disappointment to have the same exact roster from last year. I don't think you could even peg us in as a guaranteed playoff team next year.