HB IS BACK

[SacTownKid]

Depends on the 2nd piece/if there is a second piece.

For me, I wanted to grab 2 guys with this cash. Some combo of Williams/Brown/Hart/Reid/PJW etc. I didn't really expect HB to be back because of our cap moves and the trade, but it's basically the same thing if we still go grab a productive role guy to plug in.

Channeling my 3rd eye a bit, I think we're going to make a play for PJW or Grant Williams now. With HB locked, we all of a sudden don't have to worry about the time constraint as much as before. And both guys are interchangeable with Lyles at the 4/5 and flexible 4/5 players.

Seems like we do this every year, lol, but if Sasha comes over how do the minutes work out at the F spot? If they don't move Huerter and/or whatever piece they bring in isn't at the very least a 3/2 or a 4/5 the minutes aren't there. Maybe you can get away with platooning around Keegan but none of Williams/PWJ, Barnes, Sasha, or Keegan are playing SG. If they try and actually turn Keegan into that then that will be a huge mistake IMO.

 

[sactowndog]

The only downside is at this point any more additions are just depth. Fox/Davion/Huerter/Monk/Barnes/Keegan/Domas/Lyles/Sasha. If they come back with that you can't really add to it all it does is look good on paper. We saw last year with TD. It doesn't work. Somebody is getting the TD spot where you are in and out of the lineup almost on a daily basis.

who in that group plays good defense on the wing? Barnes has lost a step, Keegan is meh against 2-3 wings…. Sasha Lolololol

nobody in that line-up can guard a Booker or SGA or healthy George. Heck it’s not clear they can guard Brandin Podziemski.

our line up has a big hole you better hope Kessler Edwards or Keon Ellis can fill!

maybe the in Monte we trust crowd can explain this line-up (putting people in their positions)

Domas, Lyles, Nemi
Murray, Barnes, Sasha (crowded)
Edwards, Slawson (hope and prayer)
Huerter, Ellis, Jones
Fox, Monk, Mitchell (crowded)

 

[upinsmoke]

Thybulle time!

 

[The Effort Police]

That would have been nice but this is an underpay. His position with the numbers and efficiency is probably around 22-25 for most teams. Lets see what Kuz gets I guess.

Yeah, I don't know where this is coming from.

The Pacers are about to give Max Strus basically the same deal. Barnes as a forward is like a tier if that below the Kuzma/Grant options, thinking he's going for like 12 mil a year is just delusion and pushing him to the bench for Lyles and Vezenkov and expecting them to get better is loser franchise behavior.

I think the play right now might be to let the rest of the West fester in their age and locker room difficulties. Which that's it's own set of risks but meaningfully I don't see the wholesale improvements to the West all coming to fruition. There's too much age/volatility/injury for all of them to get their ish together.

 

[kingdivac]

Seems like we do this every year, lol, but if Sasha comes over how do the minutes work out at the F spot? If they don't move Huerter and/or whatever piece they bring in isn't at the very least a 3/2 or a 4/5 the minutes aren't there. Maybe you can get away with platooning around Keegan but none of Williams/PWJ, Barnes, Sasha, or Keegan are playing SG. If they try and actually turn Keegan into that then that will be a huge mistake IMO.

Vezenkov (if signs) will be off the bench 8th or 9th - may make his way up to 7th. They resigned Edwards too - they're gonna have 10 deep easy - if Len comes back and gets in the mix possibly 11 or 12. I'd be surprised if they dont resign Len.......the 2 rookies will have to work to make it to suit up. They may goto Stockton although I like Slausen.

 

[The Effort Police]

who in that group plays good defense on the wing? Barnes has lost a step, Keegan is meh against 2-3 wings…. Sasha Lolololol

nobody in that line-up can guard a Booker or SGA or healthy George. Heck it’s not clear they can guard Brandin Podziemski.

our line up has a big Fing hole you better hope Kessler Edwards or Keon Ellis can fill!

Moot point.

 

[The_Jamal]

Seems like we do this every year, lol, but if Sasha comes over how do the minutes work out at the F spot? If they don't move Huerter and/or whatever piece they bring in isn't at the very least a 3/2 or a 4/5 the minutes aren't there. Maybe you can get away with platooning around Keegan but none of Williams/PWJ, Barnes, Sasha, or Keegan are playing SG. If they try and actually turn Keegan into that then that will be a huge mistake IMO.

Depth>>>>

You figure it out. I think depth is one of the only edges a team without a top 5-7 player can use to actually contend for a title. And it's easy to point to last season, but the Kings almost assuredly won't be as healthy as they were in their top 8 core this year.

And the other way you do that is by grabbing versatility. PJW/Williams/Brown all fit that mold. Dillon Brooks fits that mold (blegh, but I think that might be a direction we're looking. Fits the cap number we have left).

The Kings were only 8 deep last season. And still, the bench was incredibly inconsistent a lot of the time where they'd go through stretches of being elite and then the reason we were losing games. Bring in a Grant Williams, maybe you can limit the workload on Domas/HB so they're more ready to go come playoff time. And there's plenty of room to just give him a large role right out of the gate anyway.

Also, are we sure Sasha comes in right away in a 20 MPG role? What if he sucks? And if he's good, it's a great problem to have to be 10 deep.

 

[SacTownKid]

who in that group plays good defense on the wing? Barnes has lost a step, Keegan is meh against 2-3 wings…. Sasha Lolololol

nobody in that line-up can guard a Booker or SGA or healthy George. Heck it’s not clear they can guard Brandin Podziemski.

our line up has a big Fing hole you better hope Kessler Edwards or Keon Ellis can fill!

I mean, like you said, NOBODY? haha. But one player isn't changing that anyway unless they are a full time core starter and it would be nice to have a full time starter type that is a machine, like a Grant Williams but the value for a player like that isn't there unless they can play at least 3 positions or Monte clears out a Monk or Huerter. The F spot is now set if Sasha comes over and Lyles is still here. It is what it is. I think that team can get up into the middle on defense if they play it right but Brown has to ditch the help scheme. Yeah, they don't have the length and speed to play anything other than a tight pressure defense. Once the ball gets closer to the rim it will just be more of the same, either a finish at the rim, or a forced and typically undersized closeout to an open 3. The best defense is a great offense sometimes, the Kings issue was the offense was schemed away and Fox needs help if that happens again. He needs another takeover type and banking on Monk to be that is a gamble both contractually and game to game.

 

[sactowndog]

Depth>>>>

You figure it out. I think depth is one of the only edges a team without a top 5-7 player can use to actually contend for a title. And it's easy to point to last season, but the Kings almost assuredly won't be as healthy as they were in their top 8 core this year.

And the other way you do that is by grabbing versatility. PJW/Williams/Brown all fit that mold. Dillon Brooks fits that mold (blegh, but I think that might be a direction we're looking. Fits the cap number we have left).

The Kings were only 8 deep last season. And still, the bench was incredibly inconsistent a lot of the time where they'd go through stretches of being elite and then the reason we were losing games. Bring in a Grant Williams, maybe you can limit the workload on Domas/HB so they're more ready to go come playoff time. And there's plenty of room to just give him a large role right out of the gate anyway.

Also, are we sure Sasha comes in right away in a 20 MPG role? What if he sucks? And if he's good, it's a great problem to have to be 10 deep.

man we better pray for Dillon Brooks at this point. He can’t shoot either but he can play defense.

 

[The_Jamal]

man we better pray for Dillon Brooks at this point. He can’t shoot either but he can play defense.

I think it's someone in that tier. 17 mil is like the perfect number to outbid all the MLE teams that those guys are hoping to avoid.

 

[SacTownKid]

Vezenkov (if signs) will be off the bench 8th or 9th - may make his way up to 7th. They resigned Edwards too - they're gonna have 10 deep easy - if Len comes back and gets in the mix possibly 11 or 12. I'd be surprised if they dont resign Len.......the 2 rookies will have to work to make it to suit up. They may goto Stockton although I like Slausen.

How did 10 deep look in the playoffs? It didn't. The only reason TD even ended up playing the minutes he did as a 9th man is because Huerter bit the dust and he ended up hitting the bench and mostly staying there some games. TD only played in 4 games. The Nuggets played 7 guys in the final game pretty much. You want a loaded and stocked top 7-8 not a pretty on paper 10,11,12.

 

[sactowndog]

I mean, like you said, NOBODY? haha. But one player isn't changing that anyway unless they are a full time core starter and it would be nice to have a full time starter type that is a machine, like a Grant Williams but the value for a player like that isn't there unless they can play at least 3 positions or Monte clears out a Monk or Huerter. The F spot is now set if Sasha comes over and Lyles is still here. It is what it is. I think that team can get up into the middle on defense if they play it right but Brown has to ditch the help scheme. Yeah, they don't have the length and speed to play anything other than a tight pressure defense. Once the ball gets closer to the rim it will just be more of the same, either a finish at the rim, or a forced and typically undersized closeout to an open 3. The best defense is a great offense sometimes, the Kings issue was the offense was schemed away and Fox needs help if that happens again. He needs another takeover type and banking on Monk to be that is a gamble both contractually and game to game.

yeah Grant is more a 3-4 type. He would slot into the already crowded Keegan, Barnes slot.

 

[joemama]

Hart for 5M less would have been so much better. Yes, he opted in but damn, at least he could defend and rebound.

 

[Showtime]

I don't see what minutes HB would get that we couldn't be giving Keegan. I just don't get it.

 

[The_Jamal]

How did 10 deep look in the playoffs? It didn't. The only reason TD even ended up playing the minutes he did as a 9th man is because Huerter bit the dust and he ended up hitting the bench and mostly staying there some games. TD only played in 4 games. The Nuggets played 7 guys in the final game pretty much. You want a loaded and stocked top 7-8 not a pretty on paper 10,11,12.

...you're arguing against your own point. The Kings top 8 were so good all year... until they weren't in the playoffs. And we had nowhere to go down the end of the bench.

If 9-10-11 becomes Grant Williams/Sasha Vezenkov/Colby Jones, that's an incredible upgrade on TD/Metu/Kessler Edwards? Alex Len?

 

[joemama]

man we better pray for Dillon Brooks at this point. He can’t shoot either but he can play defense.

I think Dillon and FVV agree to Houston tomorrow by 6:02 and 6:01 pm EST respectively.

 

[SacTownKid]

Depth>>>>

You figure it out. I think depth is one of the only edges a team without a top 5-7 player can use to actually contend for a title. And it's easy to point to last season, but the Kings almost assuredly won't be as healthy as they were in their top 8 core this year.

And the other way you do that is by grabbing versatility. PJW/Williams/Brown all fit that mold. Dillon Brooks fits that mold (blegh, but I think that might be a direction we're looking. Fits the cap number we have left).

The Kings were only 8 deep last season. And still, the bench was incredibly inconsistent a lot of the time where they'd go through stretches of being elite and then the reason we were losing games. Bring in a Grant Williams, maybe you can limit the workload on Domas/HB so they're more ready to go come playoff time. And there's plenty of room to just give him a large role right out of the gate anyway.

Also, are we sure Sasha comes in right away in a 20 MPG role? What if he sucks? And if he's good, it's a great problem to have to be 10 deep.

What if Sasha is good? You've just created a pathway to problems. We saw it last year with Huerter and Lyles late in the year. Someone back there will just gobble up someone elses minutes. For Lyles it was Murray's he chewed on, for Huerter in the playoffs it was Monk and TD. Platooning kills value as well. TD didn't even play because he was an option, he played because Brown felt he had no choice. Edwards got crunched totally. Having someone making 2 million deep is fine, someone expecting to play isn't an option. Holmes is a lesson.

 

[The_Jamal]

What if Sasha is good? You've just created a pathway to problems. We saw it last year with Huerter and Lyles late in the year. Someone back there will just gobble up someone elses minutes. For Lyles it was Murray's he chewed on, for Huerter in the playoffs it was Monk and TD. Platooning kills value as well. TD didn't even play because he was an option, he played because Brown felt he had no choice. Edwards got crunched totally. Having someone making 2 million deep is fine, someone expecting to play isn't an option. Holmes is a lesson.

Nah, this just doesn't make sense. So after your 8th man, you just don't invest anything into your team? your depth? I know you're a top-heavy roster build guy, but that only works if you have a legendary player on your roster. If you don't, why are you trying to build worse versions of that team?

 

[SacTownKid]

...you're arguing against your own point. The Kings top 8 were so good all year... until they weren't in the playoffs. And we had nowhere to go down the end of the bench.

If 9-10-11 becomes Grant Williams/Sasha Vezenkov/Colby Jones, that's an incredible upgrade on TD/Metu/Kessler Edwards? Alex Len?

Not true, the Kings depth was their strength all year. The reality is that depth only goes so far and can actually throw you out of rhythm. If you have to look 10 down your roster like Brown did to find an answer you are in trouble. Like I said, work out the minutes for a Williams and pay scale. You DO NOT pay starter money to players expecting starters minutes on starters pay. Holmes, Holmes, Holmes.

 

[The Effort Police]

The only downside is at this point any more additions are just depth. Fox/Davion/Huerter/Monk/Barnes/Keegan/Domas/Lyles/Sasha. If they come back with that you can't really add to it all it does is look good on paper. We saw last year with TD. It doesn't work. Somebody is getting the TD spot where you are in and out of the lineup almost on a daily basis.

Well, if that's the case...

Sorry, Sasha.

 

[SacTownKid]

Nah, this just doesn't make sense. So after your 8th man, you just don't invest anything into your team? your depth? I know you're a top-heavy roster build guy, but that only works if you have a legendary player on your roster. If you don't, why are you trying to build worse versions of that team?

Well then Monte has work to do. I just laid out the Kings rotation as of now:

Fox/Davion/Huerter/Monk/Barnes/Sasha/Murray/Lyles/Domas.

That's 9 deep right there. 9. Who are the 10th, 11th, 12th guys then? Edwards? OK, now you're 10 deep. Where does Williams play. Williams ain't being your 10th man and if he is, that means someone else up there is. Lyles is only even going to play with that roster if Sasha blows or he gets those C minutes. It's just plain fact. Every year that fact seems to keep happening.

 

[joemama]

When the music stops it's just gonna be Kings and Kuz w/ neither side happy.

So we just shrug and accept each other.

 

[The Effort Police]

Well then Monte has work to do. I just laid out the Kings rotation as of now:

Fox/Davion/Huerter/Monk/Barnes/Sasha/Murray/Lyles/Domas.

That's 9 deep right there. 9. Who are the 10th, 11th, 12th guys then? Edwards? OK, now you're 10 deep. Where does Williams play. Williams ain't being your 10th man and if he is, that means someone else up there is. Lyles is only even going to play with that roster if Sasha blows or he gets those C minutes. It's just plain fact. Every year that fact seems to keep happening.

I know I basically just said so, but I'll go into further detail.

I think Kings fans are taking the Sasha craze way too far.

If we can add a Grant Williams or PJ Washington but it means that Sasha gets hosed in the rotation like TD or maybe even we can't bring him over I do that every second of every day.

 

[Woot!]

Absolutely f’ing hate it.

Boo.

 

[Supreme]

A touch high IMO, but at least the chemistry remains intact. Let’s see what happens.
Starting five is still the same now. Guess we are going for bench depth?

 

[The_Jamal]

Well then Monte has work to do. I just laid out the Kings rotation as of now:

Fox/Davion/Huerter/Monk/Barnes/Sasha/Murray/Lyles/Domas.

That's 9 deep right there. 9. Who are the 10th, 11th, 12th guys then? Edwards? OK, now you're 10 deep. Where does Williams play. Williams ain't being your 10th man and if he is, that means someone else up there is. Lyles is only even going to play with that roster if Sasha blows or he gets those C minutes. It's just plain fact. Every year that fact seems to keep happening.

-Sasha not on the dotted line yet. Can he play? Can he swing to the 3? We don't think so, but maybe it actually works. Penciling him in like he's a problem for someone like Grant Williams or PJW, proven young NBA players that directly address our team needs, is crazy to me.

-Even if Sasha is awesome, who cares? 10 deep. Injuries, people go through cold stretches and allows us to get our main guys to the playoffs in one piece and more well-rested. I don't want Domas 6th in the NBA in minutes again. Or him having to go like 3 months of 38+ MPG because all his back-ups suck.

 

[joemama]

I know I basically just said so, but I'll go into further detail.

I think Kings fans are taking the Sasha craze way too far.

If we can add a Grant Williams or PJ Washington but it means that Sasha gets hosed in the rotation like TD or maybe even we can't bring him over I do that every second of every day.

This!

We need a legit back-up center.
Especially if we do keep Lyles.

 

[The Effort Police]

I don't see what minutes HB would get that we couldn't be giving Keegan. I just don't get it.

That's completely ridiculous.

The 4/3 flex like Barnes and Keegan is the most valuable position in basketball and even with both of them we have a dearth there.

 

[SacTownKid]

I know I basically just said so, but I'll go into further detail.

I think Kings fans are taking the Sasha craze way too far.

If we can add a Grant Williams or PJ Washington but it means that Sasha gets hosed in the rotation like TD or maybe even we can't bring him over I do that every second of every day.

To do what, come off the bench though? Ain't happening unless Barnes or Keegan end up there instead. Which is possible but if they signed Barnes to that contract to be a bencher then great value just turned into a pumpkin real fast, lol.

It's funny because I actually think Sasha might end up being Montes only hope talent wise to punch up. How much would they pay a Williams or Washington? Lets say 18 per. If they are benchers your value is much better spent on Sasha at whatever the rumored 4-5 million a year were.

 

[SLAB]

Boo.

I’m not alone in this thread.