Hawks @ Kings Game Thread - 11/4/09

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Most concerning thing for me is the paint, it's pretty sickening to watch that a 7 footer and a 6-11 guy act like they are 6-7 out there.

I'm sure the other teams scouting report is "drive drive drive...you will either make the shot or get fouled."

Fun game but we played for three quarters and that's it.

Let's hope we keep competing hard and not be competitive for a game or two then get blown out by the next opponent.
 
Gary said:
Why is Rubio being brought up still? He's obviously not a King and will probably never be one..

But if Rubio was a King and sucking it up like Evans is I would criticize him too.
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Then look at that link I posted. Just tell me the truth, whether or not you would have eaten crow about Deron Williams because if you were a Jazz fan and they had drafted him over, say Raymond Felton, you might have been criticizing that pick too, right?
 
Kingsguy881 said:
How is this any different from Rubio? (because I know that's what you're driving at)
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See, like I said in another post I never said anything about Rubio. Didn't refer to anything about Rubio. Why are you so fascinated with him and have to bring him into every post?

I was talking about this game in this situation. Right here right now.
 
ElRey said:
I completely agree with you. Rookies are going to have up and down games as they learn to adjust to be the NBA game. esp rookie point guards. But I think some people on here already have their mind dead set about Tyreke not being a true PG and there is absolutely no way to change their minds. Evans can average a triple double and make the all star game, and they would still find something to complain about. It's very frustrating. Sometimes I wish that Rubio would have came over to play for Minnesota, so I can do the same thing to Rubio. Nitpick his game to death. Just to return the favor. :D
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is that it? is that why you guys get so upset when gary and yours truly take shots at evans? because you guys cant return the favor because he who shall remain nameless is playing in spain and not in minny? that is so funny... because i really dont take shots at evans to upset you guys. i say those things because he hasnt impressed me at all so far as a pg. if he were drafted as a sg, i wouldnt nitpick at his short comings.... well thats not true, he's 6'6 and cant dunk. hell he can barely make a layup.

i just wanted a pg that can run our offense and set up players for easy buckets because as you can tell thompson and hawes need someone to set them up. they cant hold their position long enough for a slow pg to find them when they are in position. if we had taken jennings or flynn i wouldnt be as critical of them as i am evans because they are pgs... there is no denying that they will be pgs in the future. evans, im not so sure...

the fact that you guys get so heated is just icing on the cake... its not my intention to pee you guys off. if you werent members i would still say the same things about evans. if you dont believe me you can ask some of the older posters like vf21 and brick. this is just how i am... you shouldve seen me after the webber trade.... i was almost banned like twice.

but man that is hilarious that you guys think that.
 
Kingsguy881 said:
Then look at that link I posted. Just tell me the truth, whether or not you would have eaten crow about Deron Williams because if you were a Jazz fan and they had drafted him over, say Raymond Felton, you might have been criticizing that pick too, right?
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I had always said if I am wrong I will come out and say it... That has not changed.. I just hope it doesn't take some of the huggers 3 years to realize it.

I am standing by my opinion that Evans is not a PG until he proves to me otherwise..

Onto a different topic.. Why does Thompson remind me of Jabari Smith? lol.. For some reason whenever I see him play he reminds me of Smith.
 
AriesMar27 said:
is that it? is that why you guys get so upset when gary and yours truly take shots at evans? because you guys cant return the favor because he who shall remain nameless is playing in spain and not in minny? that is so funny... because i really dont take shots at evans to upset you guys. i say those things because he hasnt impressed me at all so far as a pg. if he were drafted as a sg, i wouldnt nitpick at his short comings.... well thats not true, he's 6'6 and cant dunk. hell he can barely make a layup.

i just wanted a pg that can run our offense and set up players for easy buckets because as you can tell thompson and hawes need someone to set them up. they cant hold their position long enough for a slow pg to find them when they are in position. if we had taken jennings or flynn i wouldnt be as critical of them as i am evans because they are pgs... there is no denying that they will be pgs in the future. evans, im not so sure...

the fact that you guys get so heated is just icing on the cake... its not my intention to pee you guys off. if you werent members i would still say the same things about evans. if you dont believe me you can ask some of the older posters like vf21 and brick. this is just how i am... you shouldve seen me after the webber trade.... i was almost banned like twice.

but man that is hilarious that you guys think that.
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I think we get upset because it is clearly more important to some people on the board to be right about who we should have drafted than it is to root for the Kings and the players who are Kings. It's gotten to the point where if Tyreke dropped 50 points 20 assists and 15 boards you would criticize him for scoring too much and ruining team chemistry. Sure you don't bring up Rubio but we would have to have been hit by a truck to not see what you are inferring when you ram down our throats that Tyreke isn't a point guard. Maybe you would be happier just following Barcelona for a while, you're like the Indians fan in Major League II that spends the whole movie complaining until his friends can't take it anymore.
 
AriesMar27 said:
is that it? is that why you guys get so upset when gary and yours truly take shots at evans? because you guys cant return the favor because he who shall remain nameless is playing in spain and not in minny? that is so funny... because i really dont take shots at evans to upset you guys. i say those things because he hasnt impressed me at all so far as a pg. if he were drafted as a sg, i wouldnt nitpick at his short comings.... well thats not true, he's 6'6 and cant dunk. hell he can barely make a layup.

i just wanted a pg that can run our offense and set up players for easy buckets because as you can tell thompson and hawes need someone to set them up. they cant hold their position long enough for a slow pg to find them when they are in position. if we had taken jennings or flynn i wouldnt be as critical of them as i am evans because they are pgs... there is no denying that they will be pgs in the future. evans, im not so sure...

the fact that you guys get so heated is just icing on the cake... its not my intention to pee you guys off. if you werent members i would still say the same things about evans. if you dont believe me you can ask some of the older posters like vf21 and brick. this is just how i am... you shouldve seen me after the webber trade.... i was almost banned like twice.

but man that is hilarious that you guys think that.
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No doubt.. If he was drafted to be a SG, and Martin was injured or something and Evans had got his minutes and performed like he has int he first few games I would actually say he was doing pretty damn well... But a PG? ugh.. It's pretty dreadful to watch.. To the people that haven't seen a Kings game this year, you are missing out on some horrid PG play. And I think Beno sucks..
 
Gary said:
Why is Rubio being brought up still? He's obviously not a King and will probably never be one..

But if Rubio was a King and sucking it up like Evans is I would criticize him too.
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exactly.... i know that he who shall remain nameless is a poor shooter, if he shot 7-21 i would not get mad if someone said that he sucked. he didnt do a good job of proving that he could shoot. he's the one who is embarrassed not me. he's scrawny for a 6'4 player so he's probably a weak defender. but how many pgs are good defenders? he'd probably get a lot of steals by playing the passing lanes but thats about it.
 
ovrush said:
I think we get upset because it is clearly more important to some people on the board to be right about who we should have drafted than it is to root for the Kings and the players who are Kings. It's gotten to the point where if Tyreke dropped 50 points 20 assists and 15 boards you would criticize him for scoring too much and ruining team chemistry. Sure you don't bring up Rubio but we would have to have been hit by a truck to not see what you are inferring when you ram down our throats that Tyreke isn't a point guard. Maybe you would be happier just following Barcelona for a while, you're like the Indians fan in Major League II that spends the whole movie complaining until his friends can't take it anymore.
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If he had a game like that I would say he had a great game... Some people just think the "haters" as some people put it are here JUST to pick him apart because our player wasn't drafted. Not true... If he was proving me wrong and playing decent PG I would say so.. But the facts are is that he is playing pretty damn bad, and I would wager that he is probably the worst starting PG in the league right now in terms of actual PG skills.

Now if he was a SG.... I would probably say he's got balls to take a lot of shots, and that maybe he needs to pick his shots better..
 
Kingsguy881 said:
How is this any different from Rubio? (because I know that's what you're driving at)
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wtf

Rubio is only brought up now by bad defenders of Tyreke. You guys should be more worried that Curry, Jennings, Flynn, and Ty Lawson have out performed Evans.

But mostly, you should be able to listen to criticism if you really care about the team. If you can't be honest about the team then you're not really a fan, just a cheerleader. More discussion, less mau-mauing.
 
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AriesMar27 said:
exactly.... i know that he who shall remain nameless is a poor shooter, if he shot 7-21 i would not get mad if someone said that he sucked. he didnt do a good job of proving that he could shoot. he's the one who is embarrassed not me. he's scrawny for a 6'4 player so he's probably a weak defender. but how many pgs are good defenders? he'd probably get a lot of steals by playing the passing lanes but thats about it.
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Evans is actually a solid defender at the PG spot. As he gets more experience, I have little doubt he'll be an exceptional defender. Will he be a great PG? Maybe...time will tell. So far, he's not been as bad as some are making out, though he clearly hasn't silenced his critics either. His passing has been decent, but he really needs to work on his jump shot and finishing around the rim. He's made some rookie mistakes, which is no surprise (like back to back calls for palming), but he'll get over that. I don't really see him as a point guard, necessarily, but more as the primary ball handler, like Kobe, Wade, etc., next to a lights out shooter (Martin). If Evans develops a jump shot that's even mediocre (and Martin consistently plays mediocre or better defense), that's a nasty back court.
 
ovrush said:
I think we get upset because it is clearly more important to some people on the board to be right about who we should have drafted than it is to root for the Kings and the players who are Kings. It's gotten to the point where if Tyreke dropped 50 points 20 assists and 15 boards you would criticize him for scoring too much and ruining team chemistry. Sure you don't bring up Rubio but we would have to have been hit by a truck to not see what you are inferring when you ram down our throats that Tyreke isn't a point guard. Maybe you would be happier just following Barcelona for a while, you're like the Indians fan in Major League II that spends the whole movie complaining until his friends can't take it anymore.
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you couldnt be more wrong... if evans put up a night ending with 50/15/20 i would be doing backflips... that would be amazing.... id probably be witnessing nba history being made. im sure gary would be happy to see it as well, who wouldnt want to see that happen? a laker fan would watch a rookie pg put up those kinda monster numbers. unless it took him 50 shots to get 50 points, i dont see how any basketball fan could fault a game like that....

and unless i say "he who shall remain nameless" i am not inferring anything. im pretty blunt with my comments if you hadnt noticed. if i was talking about he who shall remain nameless, i would say so...
 
The one part of Evans game I am impressed with besides his defense, is how he is keeping the mistakes to a minimum.. He does have a couple of those /facepalm mistakes each game but he's not turning the ball over an obscene amount of times.
 
AriesMar27 said:
is that it? is that why you guys get so upset when gary and yours truly take shots at evans? because you guys cant return the favor because he who shall remain nameless is playing in spain and not in minny? that is so funny... because i really dont take shots at evans to upset you guys. i say those things because he hasnt impressed me at all so far as a pg. if he were drafted as a sg, i wouldnt nitpick at his short comings.... well thats not true, he's 6'6 and cant dunk. hell he can barely make a layup.

i just wanted a pg that can run our offense and set up players for easy buckets because as you can tell thompson and hawes need someone to set them up. they cant hold their position long enough for a slow pg to find them when they are in position. if we had taken jennings or flynn i wouldnt be as critical of them as i am evans because they are pgs... there is no denying that they will be pgs in the future. evans, im not so sure...

the fact that you guys get so heated is just icing on the cake... its not my intention to pee you guys off. if you werent members i would still say the same things about evans. if you dont believe me you can ask some of the older posters like vf21 and brick. this is just how i am... you shouldve seen me after the webber trade.... i was almost banned like twice.

but man that is hilarious that you guys think that.
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come on, it's obvious you and other's dislike for Evans came from draft day when Evans was picked over Rubio. How else do you explain constant criticism and complaining of Evans since that day? And how do you explain giving up on him already after 1 game (that OKC game)? Just give the guy a chance, that's all I'm saying. he may not become the true pg you want him to be, but he may also become something special. anyway, I have to sleep. I think I'll take a break from this board for a few days. talk to you guys later.
 
Kingsguy881 said:
How is this any different from Rubio? (because I know that's what you're driving at)
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hey, you changed your name... did your wife say it was okay? she might be heated if she tries to log in and her screen name doesnt work.

back to the topic at hand....

you bring up he who shall remain nameless almost every day... or at least after every game. i wonder if i go through the archives of each game so far i bet that you were the first person to bring his name into the thread. because i dont even say his name...

are you secretly a he who shall remain nameless fan? its okay, he is pretty likable... with the cool jonas brother haircut and fancy passes....
 
Gary said:
If he had a game like that I would say he had a great game... Some people just think the "haters" as some people put it are here JUST to pick him apart because our player wasn't drafted. Not true... If he was proving me wrong and playing decent PG I would say so.. But the facts are is that he is playing pretty damn bad, and I would wager that he is probably the worst starting PG in the league right now in terms of actual PG skills.

Now if he was a SG.... I would probably say he's got balls to take a lot of shots, and that maybe he needs to pick his shots better..
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I don't think you guys are here just to pick him apart. I really enjoyed a lot of your pre draft analysis last year Gary. I do think you have gotten to the point where if you are commenting on Tyreke you won't be objective. Every time you compliment him it's completely two sided it's basically like saying "wow he looks really handsome for a short fat guy"

We knew when we drafted Tyreke he wasn't perfectly polished as a point guard. We knew it was going to be a learning experience for him. We also knew he was extremely talented and had a much much higher ceiling than some of the guys drafted behind him. Could we have gotten an average to good point guard who was more polished with our pick, sure. But we gambled on a guy who has the potential to be a star.

We get that you guys would rather we went for someone that was safe with a lower ceiling, we get you are annoyed your guy wasn't chosen. I wish you guys would see the other side of the coin. That we don't want to beleive that we wasted the 4rth pick in the draft after 5 games in his rookie season, and that being told (over and over and over again) we wasted the pick 5 games into his rookie season sucks.
 
I think there is a serious question of if Martin and Evans can coexist on the floor together in a beneficial way.

Evans run in the 2nd came with Martin out of the game. And Martin benefited greatly against Memphis with Evans out of the game. Beno is setting them both up, but they aren't really playing off each other well.
 
Gary said:
No doubt.. If he was drafted to be a SG, and Martin was injured or something and Evans had got his minutes and performed like he has int he first few games I would actually say he was doing pretty damn well... But a PG? ugh.. It's pretty dreadful to watch.. To the people that haven't seen a Kings game this year, you are missing out on some horrid PG play. And I think Beno sucks..
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Ok then this really is not a player argument for you, it's a pure position thing. So you would have drafted the best possible PG no matter if there was a more talented player? I guess Memphis did that with their pick...

I'm not seeing who the Kings passed on at 4 that is just making them look silly this early in the season. Brandon Jennings? No idea...

Take the BPA and if you have two high caliber SGs, then move one.
 
JB_kings said:
Ok then this really is not a player argument for you, it's a pure position thing. So you would have drafted the best possible PG no matter if there was a more talented player? I guess Memphis did that with their pick...

I'm not seeing who the Kings passed on at 4 that is just making them look silly this early in the season. Brandon Jennings? No idea...

Take the BPA and if you have two high caliber SGs, then move one.
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That's the reason I was upset.. Huge Martin fan here... But anyhow, yah him playing PG is my only real gripe because he's not a PG.
 
ovrush said:
I don't think you guys are here just to pick him apart. I really enjoyed a lot of your pre draft analysis last year Gary. I do think you have gotten to the point where if you are commenting on Tyreke you won't be objective. Every time you compliment him it's completely two sided it's basically like saying "wow he looks really handsome for a short fat guy"

We knew when we drafted Tyreke he wasn't perfectly polished as a point guard. We knew it was going to be a learning experience for him. We also knew he was extremely talented and had a much much higher ceiling than some of the guys drafted behind him. Could we have gotten an average to good point guard who was more polished with our pick, sure. But we gambled on a guy who has the potential to be a star.

We get that you guys would rather we went for someone that was safe with a lower ceiling, we get you are annoyed your guy wasn't chosen. I wish you guys would see the other side of the coin. That we don't want to beleive that we wasted the 4rth pick in the draft after 5 games in his rookie season, and that being told (over and over and over again) we wasted the pick 5 games into his rookie season sucks.
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how could you honestly say that he who shall remain nameless or jennings have a lower ceiling potential than evans? he who shall remain nameless could possibly make steve nash look like beno udrih.... the boy can pass the rock with the best of them. same goes for jennings, who's ballhandling is off the charts... evans dominates at nothing... if he werent 6'6 would you still want him to be your pg? would he have been drafted? if evans were 6'1, still couldnt shoot, had suspect passing and couldnt make layups... would you still want him as our starting pg? no... he'd be another orien greene...

it didnt take me an entire year to realize that we wasted our pick on douby... though many poster here said that i should wait until the season ended... it did and he still wasnt a pg... from what i saw of evans in college and what i read about him online he didnt look like much of a pg and he looked like he wasnt athletic enough to be a great sg. he cant dunk... like damn... if he could dunk i probably wouldnt be so mean... if i were 6'6 instead of 5'10 i would be dunking like lebron james... its a complete waste of height.... to be that tall and not be able to dunk or at least make layups in traffic.
 
AriesMar27 said:
how could you honestly say that he who shall remain nameless or jennings have a lower ceiling potential than evans? he who shall remain nameless could possibly make steve nash look like beno udrih.... the boy can pass the rock with the best of them. same goes for jennings, who's ballhandling is off the charts... evans dominates at nothing... if he werent 6'6 would you still want him to be your pg? would he have been drafted? if evans were 6'1, still couldnt shoot, had suspect passing and couldnt make layups... would you still want him as our starting pg? no... he'd be another orien greene...

it didnt take me an entire year to realize that we wasted our pick on douby... though many poster here said that i should wait until the season ended... it did and he still wasnt a pg... from what i saw of evans in college and what i read about him online he didnt look like much of a pg and he looked like he wasnt athletic enough to be a great sg. he cant dunk... like damn... if he could dunk i probably wouldnt be so mean... if i were 6'6 instead of 5'10 i would be dunking like lebron james... its a complete waste of height.... to be that tall and not be able to dunk or at least make layups in traffic.
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There were several catchy things i was going to say in retort, but I'm just going to let the bolded statement speak for itself.
 
ovrush said:
There were several catchy things i was going to say in retort, but I'm just going to let the bolded statement speak for itself.
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thats why i said could possibly, he could turn out to be just like sergio... but my point was that his ceiling is just as high if not higher than evans... especially since he already knows how to play pg... those things that you cant teach, he already has those... passing, check... ball-handling, check... crazy court vision, double check... on court leadership, starting pg in the gold medal game in the olympics, mmm... i think thats a check. dude, that boy can ball... we probably wouldve gotten some national coverage if we had drafted he who shall remain nameless... everyone wanted to see him play.
 
JTs doing a much better job then Hawes for me in recent time, 2nd and 3rd yr forwards = inconsistency. Not much we can do
 
swisshh said:
I think there is a serious question of if Martin and Evans can coexist on the floor together in a beneficial way.

Evans run in the 2nd came with Martin out of the game. And Martin benefited greatly against Memphis with Evans out of the game. Beno is setting them both up, but they aren't really playing off each other well.
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A serious follow up question would be...What team could give us the best deal for Martin? :p
 
gunks said:
A serious follow up question would be...What team could give us the best deal for Martin? :p
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i guess it depends on what you want in return... capspace or more youth that wont get any playing time. that seems to be a trend on this team if you are a young sf.... first it was hedo(first turkish player in nba) and wallace(athletic black guy) and now its casspi(first israeli player in nba) and greene(athletic black guy). if you are the first person from your country to play in the nba or an athletic black guy you have no place on this team.

peja wasnt the first person from his country to play in the nba... im just saying... im not trying to offend anyone, im just saying that its a trend... athletic hustle players or players from countries that are nba virgins will not last long on this team.... i think we got lucky with garcia because he played college ball and is a finesse player...
 
gunks said:
Mason is an athletic black guy....
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was an athletic black guy...now he's just a black guy, but he's a veteran... he's in a different category... veteran players that you know dont help the team but petrie just loves to sign anyways.... i also said young sf, not old guy who used to be able to dunk.

mason
udoka, now i guess...
ely
mikki moore
anthony peeler
jason hart

the list goes on and on...
 
You're kidding, right? You're going to change this into yet another diatribe about Petrie? Dude, this is the game discussion thread.
 
swisshh said:
I think there is a serious question of if Martin and Evans can coexist on the floor together in a beneficial way.

Evans run in the 2nd came with Martin out of the game. And Martin benefited greatly against Memphis with Evans out of the game. Beno is setting them both up, but they aren't really playing off each other well.
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Despite them having a sum less than their parts, it's still a way bigger sum than if Evans wasn't on the floor. They have to find a way to coexist, but I know what you're talkin about.

Kevin looked like half a point guard out there tonight though. Why don't we just go crazy left field... and have Kevin be our pg. No one will suspect it!

seriously though, I can't believe how Martin has been playing this season. Evans seemed better than last game (even if he did miss all his shots). And why isn't Westphal playing Hawes? hmmm GO KINGS
 
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