I officially want Hawes traded now. All that double-edged sword crap about trying to be something he's not is his way of bailing out.
Rebounding, blocking shots, being tough in the paint, hell, being tough....those are all duty's of a CENTER. We didn't ask for a 7ft tall Kevin Martin. From all of his quotes, it seems that he doesn't care to improve in ways that he's lacking.
And the talk about a contract? Really? If anything, he should be focusing on being part of the team, that's what get contracts.
Sure Kobe will still be a jackass, but he responded to his criticisms on the court and brought his team far into the playoffs even before Gasol went to the Lakers. That's what makes a great player, not giving excuses for his short comings.
Ever since he skipped out on summer league this year, I had a feeling he wasn't the type of person that would work to the worlds end to improve himself. All of what he said just justified why I've been wanting him gone from the Kings.
Rebounding, blocking shots, being tough in the paint, hell, being tough....those are all duty's of a CENTER. We didn't ask for a 7ft tall Kevin Martin. From all of his quotes, it seems that he doesn't care to improve in ways that he's lacking.
And the talk about a contract? Really? If anything, he should be focusing on being part of the team, that's what get contracts.
Sure Kobe will still be a jackass, but he responded to his criticisms on the court and brought his team far into the playoffs even before Gasol went to the Lakers. That's what makes a great player, not giving excuses for his short comings.
Ever since he skipped out on summer league this year, I had a feeling he wasn't the type of person that would work to the worlds end to improve himself. All of what he said just justified why I've been wanting him gone from the Kings.
I'm willing to cut Hawes a fair amount of slack but the comments about not having the body to play like Brock are troubling because he isn't one of those 7'4" 200lb twiggy freaks that they feed steak and donuts too all day hoping they'll gain some weight and fill out their frame. This is a guy that seems to have an undisciplined fitness routine and shows up late to camp and plays himself into game shape at the team's expense for half a season.
And then talk about it being important to have a big year with a contract coming up? File that under things that are probably ok to think about, but never, ever say out loud.
And then talk about it being important to have a big year with a contract coming up? File that under things that are probably ok to think about, but never, ever say out loud.
I don't see how I imposed my opinions upon others - there have been numerous times when mine, as well as other people's opinions have been very arrogantly shot down and we've been called "haters", "not true kings fans" and such. My opinion is just that - my opinion. Just like everybody else, all I did was state it. If I did insult anybody, I do apologize. I did not name anybody by name, and in fact tried to push the fact that everything has to be done should be for the team. Unlike other posts, I did not in any way use derogatory language towards Hawes, say he should be shot, or say that other opinions are stupid. If you have any ideas on how I can improve in future without my comments being offensive, I would appreciate it (and that was not sarcasm in any way - I was truly surprised that you found my comments offensive, and I'd be open to any criticism)
Hawes has many talents on the offensive side of the ball, but what irks many is that he lacks a bread-and-butter here. He's just way too inclined to play in the perimeter, and while he's an excellent pick-and-pop option from mid-range, that means that rarely takes it to the hole or plays the post. It's unfortunate because he is a decent enough finisher and has nice touch, but by playing this way, it means that he never sees the free throw line. That's where some of his softness can definitely be attributed--it's his 3rd year, and he's taken way more perimeter shots than your average center. Shot selection isn't really a thing that looks to change over the course of your career.
Defensively is where the softness label should really be stamped onto him. His rebounding fell off a cliff this year, particularly his defensive rebounding, and he's been nothing more than slightly below average here throughout his career. He does have the length to block shots, but they're superficial blocks--the guy's team defense has been quite poor throughout his career with us, and individually he's also poor as well, as opposing C's always shoot well against him and always outrebound him.
My beef with Hawes as the starter here is that he doesn't play like a center at all--and that ultimately hurts us. He's got the Brad Miller-esque qualities down pat, from being an inclined mid-range shooter with passing ability and poor all-around defense. It's just that three years is a large enough sample size to make deductions, and softness pervades everywhere--down from the poor all-around defense, constant outrebounding, inclination to play perimeter--and you can't correct all that once, and if history has any say that might linger throughout his career. If that's the case, I think we will realize that eventually he might need to go for a better center, or he will have to assume a role down the bench. With his finesse game with shooting touch and passing, and length, he can definitely serve a 20-25 minute role, but unless he makes drastic improvements in toughness I doubt he can sustain more than that.
Defensively is where the softness label should really be stamped onto him. His rebounding fell off a cliff this year, particularly his defensive rebounding, and he's been nothing more than slightly below average here throughout his career. He does have the length to block shots, but they're superficial blocks--the guy's team defense has been quite poor throughout his career with us, and individually he's also poor as well, as opposing C's always shoot well against him and always outrebound him.
My beef with Hawes as the starter here is that he doesn't play like a center at all--and that ultimately hurts us. He's got the Brad Miller-esque qualities down pat, from being an inclined mid-range shooter with passing ability and poor all-around defense. It's just that three years is a large enough sample size to make deductions, and softness pervades everywhere--down from the poor all-around defense, constant outrebounding, inclination to play perimeter--and you can't correct all that once, and if history has any say that might linger throughout his career. If that's the case, I think we will realize that eventually he might need to go for a better center, or he will have to assume a role down the bench. With his finesse game with shooting touch and passing, and length, he can definitely serve a 20-25 minute role, but unless he makes drastic improvements in toughness I doubt he can sustain more than that.
I am pretty sure I read somewhere that Spencer's team option has already been picked up. His option and Jason's option I believe were done at the same time.
I don't have any proof, but I really remember reading that.
Edit - Here is the story from October. They picked up Hawes 4th year optioin, and Thompson and Green's 3rd year options.
http://www.nba.com/kings/news/press_release_1023_2009_10_23.html
I don't have any proof, but I really remember reading that.
Edit - Here is the story from October. They picked up Hawes 4th year optioin, and Thompson and Green's 3rd year options.
http://www.nba.com/kings/news/press_release_1023_2009_10_23.html
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I'm not sure what thats suspossed to mean. Because someone has a different prespective on the time frame necessay for a players development, their coddlers. Hawes is an investment. And right now the team has a lot invested in him. Whether it will pay off or not is open for debate. But because I or anyone else thinks we need to be patient for a while longer, doesn't make us coddlers. I can be critical of him without wanting to dump him in the trashcan. Jermaine O'Neal was a perfect example of giving up on a player too soon. The Warriors gave up on Robert Parrish and paid a price for it. There haven't been too many centers that have been great at the age of 21. If they were, they're probably in the HOF or named Dwight Howard.
For those who want him to morph into Brockman, your going to be waiting a long time. If you want a banger, then draft a banger. When we drafted him my vision of him for the future was something along the lines of Bill Walton. Walton wasn't a banger, but he was a very smart player and a terrific passer. Walton was also a good rebounder, which is an area that Hawes needs to become consistant. By the way, Walton was 22 years old when he arrived on the scene. He also had a lot help from the PF position while in Portland with first Sidney Wicks, and then Mo Lucas.
As pointed out previously, there aren't that many real good centers in the league right now. Even Dwight Howard has holes in his game, that he can make up for with size and athleticism. Bynum has the look of someone that could be great, but so far, something has clicked for him. He's lucky to be playing on a team where he's the fourth or fifth option. So despite Hawes inconsistantcy, I'm willing to be patient with him a while longer. Because the last thing I want to see a couple of years from now is Hawes playing in the all-star game in another uniform.
For those who want him to morph into Brockman, your going to be waiting a long time. If you want a banger, then draft a banger. When we drafted him my vision of him for the future was something along the lines of Bill Walton. Walton wasn't a banger, but he was a very smart player and a terrific passer. Walton was also a good rebounder, which is an area that Hawes needs to become consistant. By the way, Walton was 22 years old when he arrived on the scene. He also had a lot help from the PF position while in Portland with first Sidney Wicks, and then Mo Lucas.
As pointed out previously, there aren't that many real good centers in the league right now. Even Dwight Howard has holes in his game, that he can make up for with size and athleticism. Bynum has the look of someone that could be great, but so far, something has clicked for him. He's lucky to be playing on a team where he's the fourth or fifth option. So despite Hawes inconsistantcy, I'm willing to be patient with him a while longer. Because the last thing I want to see a couple of years from now is Hawes playing in the all-star game in another uniform.
I think there are two seperate issues here with Spencer. The first is in regard to his overall talent, and skillset. Offensively, he might be the most skilled center in the nba 21 years old or younger. He's the best passing center in the nba in his age group. He's one of the better shooters at the center position. He has post moves, a lot of them, just no idea exactly how or when to use them. That will get better with time. He won't ever be a dominant post presence, but he could be a center that can either take you outside, or beat you inside. I'm not worried about Spencer on the offensive end. He is only 21, and will get better. He's not even close to his prime. So, the being young arguement holds true when it relates to his offensive maturity, and what he is going through with consistency issues is completely normal.
The other issue, which concerns me, is his effort. Effort has nothing to do with age or experience. There are just too many times when Spencer doesn't go after loose balls. Doesn't put a body on someone. Doesn't commit a hard foul and instead gives up +1's. His decrease in rebounding numbers is a result of a lack of effort. It's true Brock is better built for rebounding, and bodying defenders. But Brock also hustles twice as hard as Spencer. He commits hard fouls. He never takes a night off. We need that commitment from Spencer, because while Brock is a better rebounder, the gap between the two shouldn't be this large. Spencer is 7', and usually the tallest person on the court. At the minimum, I expect 8 rebs from Spencer, every game, no excuses.
The other issue, which concerns me, is his effort. Effort has nothing to do with age or experience. There are just too many times when Spencer doesn't go after loose balls. Doesn't put a body on someone. Doesn't commit a hard foul and instead gives up +1's. His decrease in rebounding numbers is a result of a lack of effort. It's true Brock is better built for rebounding, and bodying defenders. But Brock also hustles twice as hard as Spencer. He commits hard fouls. He never takes a night off. We need that commitment from Spencer, because while Brock is a better rebounder, the gap between the two shouldn't be this large. Spencer is 7', and usually the tallest person on the court. At the minimum, I expect 8 rebs from Spencer, every game, no excuses.
I can almost guarantee you that if the Kings were picking and they had a choice between Brook and Spence, they would choose Brook. He's always been more of physcial player, and I had him ranked as the best center in the draft that year. And yes, I did think he would be a star. As far as age goes, Brook is a little older than Spence and is about to turn 22 years of age.
For reference sake they played against one another only twice that I can remember and I saw both games. In the first game Brook dominated Spence, and in the second game Spence dominated Brook. So take from that what you will. They're different types of players. Draft wise for me, the difference was that with Brook I was pretty darn sure of what I was getting. With Spence I was hoping he would be what I wanted him to become. Sadly in the 2008 draft I was sitting there watching Brook slide down the board to the tenth spot with us sitting at number 12. I had fingers crossed on both hands until he went at number 10.
Bottom line is that Brook was a better player at the center postion than Spence coming out of college. For us, Spence was the best center left on the board, and we almost had to take him. I liked him then because of his skill level for a 19 year old kid. I still like his potential, but he is running out of time.
For reference sake they played against one another only twice that I can remember and I saw both games. In the first game Brook dominated Spence, and in the second game Spence dominated Brook. So take from that what you will. They're different types of players. Draft wise for me, the difference was that with Brook I was pretty darn sure of what I was getting. With Spence I was hoping he would be what I wanted him to become. Sadly in the 2008 draft I was sitting there watching Brook slide down the board to the tenth spot with us sitting at number 12. I had fingers crossed on both hands until he went at number 10.
Bottom line is that Brook was a better player at the center postion than Spence coming out of college. For us, Spence was the best center left on the board, and we almost had to take him. I liked him then because of his skill level for a 19 year old kid. I still like his potential, but he is running out of time.
I'll ignore the whole CIO comparison because I know some damn successful people who haven't gone to college and run very successful businesses and know dudes with masters and doctorates that are all-and-out failures.
For some reason, everyone wants Spencer to suddenly develop a Dwight Howard body. Here, I'll use an NFL comparison. For his first few years in the league, Vernon Davis was the text book definition of physical dominance, but he was too damn bulky to do anything. Last offseason he slimmed down (i.e. lost some muscle) and as a result was much more agile and effective. Whose to say that if Spencer put on muscle, he would become a better player? Right now, he's a pretty mobile big man who gets a lot of his points by being a touch quicker than his defender (or parking himself out on the perimeter, but that's another story). If he gained weight, perhaps he loses that quickness and as a result becomes a pure three point bomber. (Must I remind everyone about our last "full-sized" big bomber?)
I think everyone is simply trying to make Spencer into something he's not. He is NOT and NEVER WILL BE Dikembe Mutumbo or Shaq or (insert bruiser here). He does, however, have the potential to be a finesse style big (like Vlade and Pau) IF (this is a big if) he learns to have some sort of presence on the defensive side of the ball.
And you don't need to be feared to be good.
For some reason, everyone wants Spencer to suddenly develop a Dwight Howard body. Here, I'll use an NFL comparison. For his first few years in the league, Vernon Davis was the text book definition of physical dominance, but he was too damn bulky to do anything. Last offseason he slimmed down (i.e. lost some muscle) and as a result was much more agile and effective. Whose to say that if Spencer put on muscle, he would become a better player? Right now, he's a pretty mobile big man who gets a lot of his points by being a touch quicker than his defender (or parking himself out on the perimeter, but that's another story). If he gained weight, perhaps he loses that quickness and as a result becomes a pure three point bomber. (Must I remind everyone about our last "full-sized" big bomber?)
I think everyone is simply trying to make Spencer into something he's not. He is NOT and NEVER WILL BE Dikembe Mutumbo or Shaq or (insert bruiser here). He does, however, have the potential to be a finesse style big (like Vlade and Pau) IF (this is a big if) he learns to have some sort of presence on the defensive side of the ball.
And you don't need to be feared to be good.
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I don't recall anyone calling you a Hawes hater or some similar label. Your entitled to your opinion. If you don't like disagreement, then you shouldn't put forth your opinion, because no matter what it may be, someone is going to disagree with you. If you say its a beautiful day someone will point out the clouds to you.
Just because everything is black and white to you, just doesn't make it so. Others may have a different opinion, and that doesn't make them members of any club or board that does nothing but support Hawes. You know it is possible to support a player, and at the same time be critical of his play. Your right! Hawes is not Bynum. Hawes doesn't weigh 270 plus pounds. If he did, then he could probably bang with the best of them. So whats your point? Should he go down to dunking doughnuts and eat until he puts on another 50 pounds. Do you honestly think he can go into the weight room and put on 50 pounds of muscle overnight.
Were Born a certain way with certain gifts or lack thereof. If Bynum had Hawes skill level he would be one of the best centers in the NBA. And vice/versa. But Hawes is what he is. And for us to try and make him into something he's not, is not going to work. And, its not his fault that he's not Andrew Bynum. God simply didn't give him that body. But it is Hawes fault for not reaching the potential of what he is capable of doing. It is his fault for not being consistant. He doesn't have to be Andrew Bynum to be a good center in this league. But he does have to polish what he does best and become consistant.
Just because everything is black and white to you, just doesn't make it so. Others may have a different opinion, and that doesn't make them members of any club or board that does nothing but support Hawes. You know it is possible to support a player, and at the same time be critical of his play. Your right! Hawes is not Bynum. Hawes doesn't weigh 270 plus pounds. If he did, then he could probably bang with the best of them. So whats your point? Should he go down to dunking doughnuts and eat until he puts on another 50 pounds. Do you honestly think he can go into the weight room and put on 50 pounds of muscle overnight.
Were Born a certain way with certain gifts or lack thereof. If Bynum had Hawes skill level he would be one of the best centers in the NBA. And vice/versa. But Hawes is what he is. And for us to try and make him into something he's not, is not going to work. And, its not his fault that he's not Andrew Bynum. God simply didn't give him that body. But it is Hawes fault for not reaching the potential of what he is capable of doing. It is his fault for not being consistant. He doesn't have to be Andrew Bynum to be a good center in this league. But he does have to polish what he does best and become consistant.
Beautiful post.
All I want to add is that I'm sick and tired of Hawes making references to how hard it is for him when he doesn't know how much or when he'll play. Geeze, man! Life is difficult for you, isn't it?
I am way past ready to drop Hawes from our plans. Like yesterday.
And JT has better snap out of it soon, or I'm sending him packing, too.
All I want to add is that I'm sick and tired of Hawes making references to how hard it is for him when he doesn't know how much or when he'll play. Geeze, man! Life is difficult for you, isn't it?
I am way past ready to drop Hawes from our plans. Like yesterday.
And JT has better snap out of it soon, or I'm sending him packing, too.
S
LOL!!! U suck Hawes!!! U SUCK!!! LOL!!!
like a lot of you are saying... hes really young... thats a fact...
however so was Lebron... and Dwight Howard...
does anyone remember what Dwight Howard looked like when he came into the league... well he didn't have those massive shoulders or arms hes does now.... Dwight Howard smashed himself and was totally dedicated towards being the best NBA player he could be from day one... ITS HIS CAREER AND HES GONNA BE THE BEST HE CAN BE AND GIVE HIMSELF THE TOOLS TO DO IT...
same with Lebron... sure hes talented... but that body of his didn't just happen just because.... Lebron works hard.... he lifts and smashes himself by training all the time....
this whole topic reminds me of Hawes after his first year in the league... the bee did an article of what he had been up too and doing during the offseason... Hawes was "going to school mostly" and taking some time off.... but was "planning on hitting the gym a few weeks before training camp"
thats not gonna get it done.... that attitude is why he sucks... im not against players going to school... BUT THE NBA IS HAWES CAREER RIGHT NOW AND FOR THE NEAR FUTURE.... HE SHOULD BE 100% FOCUSED ON THE NBA AND GYM!!!
he has millions of dollars already... if he got hurt he could always afford to go back to school...
plus when ever i hear Hawes taking about adding size its never really about what he's actually doing RIGHT NOW.... its about what hes planning on doing in the future.... hmm
like a lot of you are saying... hes really young... thats a fact...
however so was Lebron... and Dwight Howard...
does anyone remember what Dwight Howard looked like when he came into the league... well he didn't have those massive shoulders or arms hes does now.... Dwight Howard smashed himself and was totally dedicated towards being the best NBA player he could be from day one... ITS HIS CAREER AND HES GONNA BE THE BEST HE CAN BE AND GIVE HIMSELF THE TOOLS TO DO IT...
same with Lebron... sure hes talented... but that body of his didn't just happen just because.... Lebron works hard.... he lifts and smashes himself by training all the time....
this whole topic reminds me of Hawes after his first year in the league... the bee did an article of what he had been up too and doing during the offseason... Hawes was "going to school mostly" and taking some time off.... but was "planning on hitting the gym a few weeks before training camp"
thats not gonna get it done.... that attitude is why he sucks... im not against players going to school... BUT THE NBA IS HAWES CAREER RIGHT NOW AND FOR THE NEAR FUTURE.... HE SHOULD BE 100% FOCUSED ON THE NBA AND GYM!!!
he has millions of dollars already... if he got hurt he could always afford to go back to school...
plus when ever i hear Hawes taking about adding size its never really about what he's actually doing RIGHT NOW.... its about what hes planning on doing in the future.... hmm
A fine example of how weak Hawes is, mentally. Skill, size and strength, Brock got nothing over Hawes. The only thing he got over Hawes is his husstling. And telling fans when you husstle and it doesn't work well, you're BSing.
while I wan'ted to give Hawes a chance because a lot of people argue about the age and experience require for a big man, this quote does it for me. No more chance.
while I wan'ted to give Hawes a chance because a lot of people argue about the age and experience require for a big man, this quote does it for me. No more chance.
This guy (soggy waffles, not TS) has some sort of self-entitlement that sickens me to my stomach.
Successful? Your a bust up to this point you moron.
Like someone said, this is loser talk to it's finest. Yes, he's 21, but you either HAVE the mentality to improve and work blue collar style, or you dont.
Hawes is a little ***** who is being paid millions of dollars to play basketball. We draft him, pay him millions for his rookie contract, and this ******* is content with the skills he had coming in from college.
Those are the ingredients of a loser who wants everything handed to him on a silver platter.
Wake up people. He might be a young guy, but he isn't going to work hard and hasn't been working hard.
Once you're soft, you're always soft. He isnt going to suddenly start rebounding, start defending, or stand up for himself in the paint.
Trade him while his value of being a "young big" is still there.
Everytime I see his disgusted snobby face whining to the refs, I literally want to punch him in the grill to wake his *** up.
Successful? Your a bust up to this point you moron.
Like someone said, this is loser talk to it's finest. Yes, he's 21, but you either HAVE the mentality to improve and work blue collar style, or you dont.
Hawes is a little ***** who is being paid millions of dollars to play basketball. We draft him, pay him millions for his rookie contract, and this ******* is content with the skills he had coming in from college.
Those are the ingredients of a loser who wants everything handed to him on a silver platter.
Wake up people. He might be a young guy, but he isn't going to work hard and hasn't been working hard.
Once you're soft, you're always soft. He isnt going to suddenly start rebounding, start defending, or stand up for himself in the paint.
Trade him while his value of being a "young big" is still there.
Everytime I see his disgusted snobby face whining to the refs, I literally want to punch him in the grill to wake his *** up.
Around here players seem to be either a bust or an all-star and anything less than an all-star is labeled a bust. C-mon. There's very few "stars" in the league.
Some criticisms of Hawes are fair, the above quote is not. I haven't seen Hawes complaining to refs more than the average player and maybe less. Kobe, Le Bron and Garnett are all major whiners. The player on our team that's really overboard on whining is JT, plain and simple.
Some criticisms of Hawes are fair, the above quote is not. I haven't seen Hawes complaining to refs more than the average player and maybe less. Kobe, Le Bron and Garnett are all major whiners. The player on our team that's really overboard on whining is JT, plain and simple.
I never advocated for dumping him into a trash can whatsoever. I am critical of him. The reason is because I am asking of him only what he can provide. "If you can do it once, you can do it every time," is what my old coach used to say. Not to say that if you hit the halfcourt shot once, you can do it everytime, but that SHOULD be your goal. Robotlike accuracy and precision. Again, I never said give up on him, I never said trade him. I just require of him waht he can provide.
As for too much bulk, a lot of people have a misconception that if you go to the gym once a week, you might accidentally gain so much muscle around your torso that you cannot have your arms flat on your sides. It's both preposterous and an insult to those who lift. Spencer Hawes came into the league at 13% body fat. Oden came in at 8%, and Brook Lopez came in at 6%. People say he lost weight and put on muscle over the offseason. I see very little change. Keep in mind that I said lose fat, gain muscle. If he is at the same weight with more muscle and less fat, he can not be slower than he is. And for whomever posted that he uses his lithe body to get past centers... that is false. Watch a game. Thanks.
I follow NBA a lot, not just kings. I am aware that there are precious few servicable centers in the NBA, and even less at Spencer's age. However, his age is not of importance to me. He has been in the league for 3 years. He has been playing basketball for a long time. He has known about what he needs to do to his body for just as long. The things that come out of his mouth (keep in mind everyone says what a smart guy he is) has been thought out. They show what kind of person he is, and probably what kind of player he will end up being. I'd rather have Noah at the time of the draft, and I'd rather have Noah now. I don't care if Hawes has a higher ceiling. Show me you want it. Show me you want to win, show me you want the ball, show me you will do what it takes.
I only ask that he do what he can to fulfill his potential. He has not done that up to this point. Can anyone dispute that?
PS, a banger is a style, but if you get in there and fight for a rebound, that's getting in there and fighting for a rebound. How you do it is up to you. I guess effort is a style too now?
PPS: I appreciate your efforts to respond to all of these posts baja
As for too much bulk, a lot of people have a misconception that if you go to the gym once a week, you might accidentally gain so much muscle around your torso that you cannot have your arms flat on your sides. It's both preposterous and an insult to those who lift. Spencer Hawes came into the league at 13% body fat. Oden came in at 8%, and Brook Lopez came in at 6%. People say he lost weight and put on muscle over the offseason. I see very little change. Keep in mind that I said lose fat, gain muscle. If he is at the same weight with more muscle and less fat, he can not be slower than he is. And for whomever posted that he uses his lithe body to get past centers... that is false. Watch a game. Thanks.
I follow NBA a lot, not just kings. I am aware that there are precious few servicable centers in the NBA, and even less at Spencer's age. However, his age is not of importance to me. He has been in the league for 3 years. He has been playing basketball for a long time. He has known about what he needs to do to his body for just as long. The things that come out of his mouth (keep in mind everyone says what a smart guy he is) has been thought out. They show what kind of person he is, and probably what kind of player he will end up being. I'd rather have Noah at the time of the draft, and I'd rather have Noah now. I don't care if Hawes has a higher ceiling. Show me you want it. Show me you want to win, show me you want the ball, show me you will do what it takes.
I only ask that he do what he can to fulfill his potential. He has not done that up to this point. Can anyone dispute that?
PS, a banger is a style, but if you get in there and fight for a rebound, that's getting in there and fighting for a rebound. How you do it is up to you. I guess effort is a style too now?
PPS: I appreciate your efforts to respond to all of these posts baja
First on the CIO comparison. Please don't bring up the exceptions to the rule in a debate. People without education and all experience, ARE excpetions to the rule. Look up the qualifications for MOST jobs of that level and you'll find a BS with an MBA/MS preferred.
Now, no one is telling Spencer to be Dwight Howard. No one can be Dwight Howard, besides Dwight Howard.
He does however need to workout. He is physically weak, you see it every time he tries to defend the basket, or drive to the basket, or even get his arms above his shoulders with arms coming down on him. He has VERY little power, and he needs to get stronger. Bottom line, end of story.
Now, no one is telling Spencer to be Dwight Howard. No one can be Dwight Howard, besides Dwight Howard.
He does however need to workout. He is physically weak, you see it every time he tries to defend the basket, or drive to the basket, or even get his arms above his shoulders with arms coming down on him. He has VERY little power, and he needs to get stronger. Bottom line, end of story.
Hawes is the type where if everything clicks, he's a perimeter bombing big who will probably tack the three point shot into his arsenal, and show nice passing ability. His rebounding and shotblocking will also be decent as well. Maybe like Donyell Marshall. But things I can't see him developing/improving are his defensive woes and the addition of a consistent paint game, at his peak. But in this scenario he'd still be a very nice player, as the popular "stretch 5". He'll just need to be paired up with the right personnel to thrive.
But either way, I see us trying to milk whatever talents he has until he's about 24-25 years old, because that way, we will by then know whether he will or won't be a star, so we won't get swindled if we let him go. Due to his young age right now I'll maybe give him two more years tops to come to a definite conclusion, but as I said mileage is equally as important and based on that mileage, I really think that Hawes is just a serviceable pick-and-pop roleplayer. We'll see if this view changes.
But either way, I see us trying to milk whatever talents he has until he's about 24-25 years old, because that way, we will by then know whether he will or won't be a star, so we won't get swindled if we let him go. Due to his young age right now I'll maybe give him two more years tops to come to a definite conclusion, but as I said mileage is equally as important and based on that mileage, I really think that Hawes is just a serviceable pick-and-pop roleplayer. We'll see if this view changes.
My "Put up or shut up" comment was directed at Hawes. My comment on people defending Hawes to death was simply to show both sides of the coin. I believe we should be able to call out players that we feel are underperforming, or just flat out suck. I did not understand how we can call ourselves fans while not being able to criticize our own. Yes, I understand there are way too many doom and gloom people that over react, but there are just as many that want to see these guys perform and are fed up. I will again say that I just stated my opinion. There are numerous posts just in this thread alone that are much worse than what I wrote, so I wanted to clear up any misconceptions. I do not see things black and white. I simply have a shorter leash for players.
I don't understand your comparison of Bynum and Howard. My vision of a Center is one that lives in the paint - I used Bynum because someone earlier in the thread mentioned him. To be very succint - Hawes has not shown any improvement for a big man, and I've lost patience. Doesn't mean I hate the guy, or like Bynum better. No, Hawes does not have Bynums body, and yes, he is still very young, but if you are going to be drafted as a C and play C, shouldn't we have begun to see some of that by now? If not, should we not be frustrated? If he is going to be playing to his strenghts, what are they?
I don't understand your comparison of Bynum and Howard. My vision of a Center is one that lives in the paint - I used Bynum because someone earlier in the thread mentioned him. To be very succint - Hawes has not shown any improvement for a big man, and I've lost patience. Doesn't mean I hate the guy, or like Bynum better. No, Hawes does not have Bynums body, and yes, he is still very young, but if you are going to be drafted as a C and play C, shouldn't we have begun to see some of that by now? If not, should we not be frustrated? If he is going to be playing to his strenghts, what are they?
G gs mpg fg% 3p% ft% off def rpg apg spg bpg to pf ppg
82 77 28.6 0.533 0.000 0.629 2.3 4.7 7.0 2.3 0.6 0.8 1.52 3.16 9.4
77 51 29.3 0.466 0.348 0.662 1.9 5.2 7.1 1.9 0.6 1.2 2.08 3.23 11.4
The first set of stats were from Andrew Bogut when he was 22. Within 4 years he makes an all star team.
The second set is from Hawes last year. I don't see a significant discrepancy between the two.
Centers take time to develop. Hawes may not be the toughest guy and he has definitely taken a step backwards this year. With that said, he is only 22 and he will mature physically and, I think more importantly, mentally. I don't think we will know what he is until he is 25.
82 77 28.6 0.533 0.000 0.629 2.3 4.7 7.0 2.3 0.6 0.8 1.52 3.16 9.4
77 51 29.3 0.466 0.348 0.662 1.9 5.2 7.1 1.9 0.6 1.2 2.08 3.23 11.4
The first set of stats were from Andrew Bogut when he was 22. Within 4 years he makes an all star team.
The second set is from Hawes last year. I don't see a significant discrepancy between the two.
Centers take time to develop. Hawes may not be the toughest guy and he has definitely taken a step backwards this year. With that said, he is only 22 and he will mature physically and, I think more importantly, mentally. I don't think we will know what he is until he is 25.