Hawes Playing Time

barndoggie

barndoggie

G-League
Last couple of games i've noticed Hawes on the bench and not much playing time and miller getting crap load of minutes. I'm cool with this cause brad's been playing like a mad man out there and kicking tail. I think brad is steping up so he can get traded to playoff bound team so he's out there hustling and showing what he can do so he can get out of the rebuild, and seeing how is playing i think geoff is giving nate the green light to play him more minutes so he keeps getting good numbers so hopefully the kings will get calls and hopefully some decent offers for b52. I was wondering if you guys think this is right on or if think hawes is getting less time cause he's struggling
 
If Brad's playing well, I suppose Hawes might learn a thing or two watching him (and also an ample amount of what *not* to do -- like throw hissy fits).
 
barndoggie said:
Last couple of games i've noticed Hawes on the bench and not much playing time and miller getting crap load of minutes. I'm cool with this cause brad's been playing like a mad man out there and kicking tail. I think brad is steping up so he can get traded to playoff bound team so he's out there hustling and showing what he can do so he can get out of the rebuild, and seeing how is playing i think geoff is giving nate the green light to play him more minutes so he keeps getting good numbers so hopefully the kings will get calls and hopefully some decent offers for b52. I was wondering if you guys think this is right on or if think hawes is getting less time cause he's struggling
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You could be right. Or, maybe the Maloofs have given up on the win & play the rookies, and are going to just get wins. Because it looks like once Brad gets traded for cap space, wins will be even harder to get this year.
 
Hawes has been struggling, and he may be feeling the lingering effects of an abdominal injury, but we have to keep in mind one more thing. The last two teams we've played were practically devoid of big men.

In the Golden State game, there were 63 minutes of floor time with the 3 OTs. Normally that would mean that the big men would get 126 minutes of PT. Biedrins got 32, and fouled out. That leaves 94 minutes...Turiaf and Kurz combined for another 39. So the Warriors had 71 minutes worth of "big men", only 56% of what you would expect, and spent the majority of the overtimes without a big man at all. We countered by playing small ball (rather than have one of our bigs try to guard a 6'5" player) and played only 89 minutes of bigs. Brad was effective, so he got the call.

In the Milwaukee game, same story more or less. Bogut out, and foul trouble for Gadzuric, Elson, and Villanueva. They played 62 minutes of big men, 65% of what you'd expect. We went small with them, playing 77 minutes of big men, and Thompson and Miller were effective and got the bulk of the minutes.

When we play somebody that actually has a front line I'd expect Hawes to see his minutes normalize, at least somewhat.
 
I actually really like the way Thompson looks at Center. Reminds me a bit of Amare. He has good post moves, is quicker than regular centers, and can pull them out of the paint with his J.
 
well if they trade b52 like we all are hoping then it would be hawes c back up moore and jt starting pf would be jt backed up by moore and thomas
 
i think the focus in the draft should be point guard unless geoff pulls a trade and gets us one which i dont see happening
 
HighTopKicks said:
You could be right. Or, maybe the Maloofs have given up on the win & play the rookies, and are going to just get wins. Because it looks like once Brad gets traded for cap space, wins will be even harder to get this year.
Click to expand...

I think at this point, even the dumbest owners in the world, and I'm not refering to the Maloofs, would know that winning gains nothing as far as long term goals. Making the playoffs is nearly impossible. As an owner or a GM you can't advocate losing. At least not publicly. You can however hope to be competive and entertaining.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
Hawes has been struggling, and he may be feeling the lingering effects of an abdominal injury, but we have to keep in mind one more thing. The last two teams we've played were practically devoid of big men.

In the Golden State game, there were 63 minutes of floor time with the 3 OTs. Normally that would mean that the big men would get 126 minutes of PT. Biedrins got 32, and fouled out. That leaves 94 minutes...Turiaf and Kurz combined for another 39. So the Warriors had 71 minutes worth of "big men", only 56% of what you would expect, and spent the majority of the overtimes without a big man at all. We countered by playing small ball (rather than have one of our bigs try to guard a 6'5" player) and played only 89 minutes of bigs. Brad was effective, so he got the call.

In the Milwaukee game, same story more or less. Bogut out, and foul trouble for Gadzuric, Elson, and Villanueva. They played 62 minutes of big men, 65% of what you'd expect. We went small with them, playing 77 minutes of big men, and Thompson and Miller were effective and got the bulk of the minutes.

When we play somebody that actually has a front line I'd expect Hawes to see his minutes normalize, at least somewhat.
Click to expand...

The only problem I have with your analogy is last nights game in the fourth quarter. Miller was trying to guard Villanueva and Thompson was guarding LMM (easier than his whole name). It was painfully obvious to me that Miller couldn't guard Villanueva. If they switched, he would have had a even bigger problem guarding LMM.

I kept thinking to myself, bring in Cisco and have him guard LMM and switch Thompson to Villanueva. Or bring in Hawes and let him guard Villanueva. Instead he did bring in Cisco, but to replace Thompson. I'm sorry, it just didn't make any sense to me. I give credit to the Bucks. They saw that they had an advantage and they used it.
 
mtb4life said:
Hawes is the back-up centre, isn't he? Or does JT play some centre as well?
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At Rider Thompson played center and was mostly a low post player. If he hits the weight room over the summer and continues to work on him game, I see him as a Center/PF player.
 
bajaden said:
The only problem I have with your analogy is last nights game in the fourth quarter. Miller was trying to guard Villanueva and Thompson was guarding LMM (easier than his whole name). It was painfully obvious to me that Miller couldn't guard Villanueva. If they switched, he would have had a even bigger problem guarding LMM.

I kept thinking to myself, bring in Cisco and have him guard LMM and switch Thompson to Villanueva. Or bring in Hawes and let him guard Villanueva. Instead he did bring in Cisco, but to replace Thompson. I'm sorry, it just didn't make any sense to me. I give credit to the Bucks. They saw that they had an advantage and they used it.
Click to expand...

Actually, that was pretty much my point - a major factor in Hawes' reduced minutes over the last two games is that we've played against two remarkably small lineups, and staying "big" would have resulted in defensive mismatches. I would have liked to have seen us "go small" with a more balanced rotation of big men instead of relying on Miller so much but between Spencer's injury and his performance over the last few weeks it's not terribly surprising he found himself the odd man out (though neither so odd nor so out as Mikki ;)).
 
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bajaden said:
I think at this point, even the dumbest owners in the world, and I'm not refering to the Maloofs, would know that winning gains nothing as far as long term goals. Making the playoffs is nearly impossible. As an owner or a GM you can't advocate losing. At least not publicly. You can however hope to be competive and entertaining.
Click to expand...

I don't know how smart (basketball wise) the Maloofs are, but I'm pretty sure their smart money wise. Wins put people in seats and sell merchandise, and the Kings need people to be excited about their team if we're ever going to move forward on a new arena.

So, let's stop assuming that the Maloof agenda has any similarity to the average fans. Their busnessmen first and fans second, and to them a arena full with fans to watch a playoff game is the same as an arena full to watch a championship game. The dollars come out the same.

IMHO, the plan is to win and put people back in the stands. And, if that means making decisions, that are not based on the goal of winning a championship, but to win as soon as they can, than that's what they'll do. Now, the two goals are not total opposites, so moving Brad now which will hurt our win loss record in the 2nd half, to improve the team next summer meets both objectives. But, don't expect them to play for another high draft pick in 2010.

The Maloofs openly critisized Theus for two years for not playing the rookies, and then fired him after the team failed to win. Now, Natt isn't winning and isn't playing the rookies, and he's not getting any pressure from the Maloofs. To me, that means a change in attitude by them. So, I stand by my opinion, that for now they are not pushing to have the rookies play more minutes and are more interested in as many wins as they can get.
 
HighTopKicks said:
The Maloofs openly critisized Theus for two years for not playing the rookies, and then fired him after the team failed to win. Now, Natt isn't winning and isn't playing the rookies, and he's not getting any pressure from the Maloofs. To me, that means a change in attitude by them. So, I stand by my opinion, that for now they are not pushing to have the rookies play more minutes and are more interested in as many wins as they can get.
Click to expand...


This is possible, but its also worth noting that Natt is effectively unfireable -- we have already fired everybody else on the coaching staff remotely qualified to be a head coach. SO unless they really were gong to take the WNBA coach route, or dish out big bucks to bring in a name guy midseason, Natt's the guy. Also note that events of a couple of weeks ago convinced me that Natt had been leaned on to a) start Thompson, and b) accept back Coachie as an "advisor", so I am not at all sure that everybody is as satisfied as you posit about the way things are going. Evne moving Greene ot the D league may have been in repsonse to Natt drying up his PT. Its just that Natt is not really repalceable, is an interim with low expectations, and is not a media coach like Theus, so there may not be much reason to confront him publicly.
 
Bricklayer said:
This is possible, but its also worth noting that Natt is effectively unfireable -- we have already fired everybody else on the coaching staff remotely qualified to be a head coach. SO unless they really were gong to take the WNBA coach route, or dish out big bucks to bring in a name guy midseason, Natt's the guy. Also note that events of a couple of weeks ago convinced me that Natt had been leaned on to a) start Thompson, and b) accept back Coachie as an "advisor", so I am not at all sure that everybody is as satisfied as you posit about the way things are going. Evne moving Greene ot the D league may have been in repsonse to Natt drying up his PT. Its just that Natt is not really repalceable, is an interim with low expectations, and is not a media coach like Theus, so there may not be much reason to confront him publicly.
Click to expand...

Bu put it in Natt's perspective. He's been an assistant coach for a decade. Now the wins and losses are on his record. The only way he gets another shot is if the team exceeds expectations. By playing the "company line" and playing the rookies over wins gets him nothing. A year or two down the line all people will look at his his wins/losses, not the oh but he played all the rookies.

I think the reason they made the change was mostly behind the scenes stuff. From the stuff reported about Reggie being late to games/practices and not having enough structure for the players. The last thing you want is rookies coming into a situation that sets bad habits for the future.
 
Section 101 said:
Bu put it in Natt's perspective. He's been an assistant coach for a decade. Now the wins and losses are on his record. The only way he gets another shot is if the team exceeds expectations. By playing the "company line" and playing the rookies over wins gets him nothing. A year or two down the line all people will look at his his wins/losses, not the oh but he played all the rookies.

I think the reason they made the change was mostly behind the scenes stuff. From the stuff reported about Reggie being late to games/practices and not having enough structure for the players. The last thing you want is rookies coming into a situation that sets bad habits for the future.
Click to expand...

Quite possibly, but that is why Natt does not necessarily have the Kings' best interests in mind -- he has his own. That is also why I doubt there is any deference being paid to a shorttimer. Of course the reverse argument would bethat his best and maybe only realistic chance at being a head coach would be finding a way to retain his job here, and not playing the kids could hurt him both in the standing of the front office, and in terms of any future wins with this franchise due to their stunted development.

As for the latter stuff -- I thought Reggie should go, have no regrets over him going, but all that stuff about wanting to tighten up the locker room...why? There has been all sorts of thast pop psychology nonsense going on around here ever since there needed to be a reason to fire Adelman. Ooh, he's not tough enoguh on them. Get tough on the players and they'll play tough. Force them to jump through hoops like gradeschoolers in practice and they'll be disciplined on the court. Except it doesn't work that way. You need your players to hard for you no matter how it is accomplished. And if it means running a looser ship so that they enjoy coming to work, then so be it. There has been no noticeable change in oncourt discipline since Reggie left and career practice coach Natt took over. Natt just has never had any responsibility beyond the practice court and so in his limited world view that is all that he can see mattering.
 
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